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Tapering off 6 years on Subs and freaking out!
  1. #31
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Thanks for stopping by ghost. I hope I can sleep tonight too!

    If anyone could chime in about split dosing at this point...I've been splitting it since .5mg. I'm just wondering if I dosed all at once if I would feel better longer or if splitting it has benefit at this dose? I'm concerned that I may be doing more harm than good but it's too small of a dose to risk experimenting right now. If anyone has any opinions I'd love to hear them!

  2. #32
    ghostrc is offline Member
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    THe one thing ive read i splitting doses is more for at higher doses, the dose your on is so small breaking it half could give you to many ups and downs plus splitting dose some say triggers our reward system which can make it harder at the next dose to go back to one, if you can tough it out as long as you can and take it closer to night that way you still get sleep. Im by no mean a expert just spend the last 6 years researching this stuff, not gonna lie the lower you go it does get a bit tougher but at the same time it will balance out , just pretend its a skip day then take it at a time that you can make it too.

  3. #33
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    I see your point. What I know from research is that when doctors use Subutex for pain treatment the average dose is .3-.4mg and that the analgesic effects last about 6 hours since it acts more like a short acting opiate at doses under 1 mg. I know it's a different situation when you have it build in your system already but my fear is that if i take it at once that my nights will be much worse than now. Idk if I'm right or not.

    Anyway... Last night was the worst I think. I wanted to scream a couple times lol. But it was the 3rd day at .33 so I feel like it should be uphill today and tomorrow. Just in time for another drop on Thursday! Yay!
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  4. #34
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi Gonnawin,

    I'm proud of you for sticking with this. I too hope that tonight is better for you. Day 3 so I really really hope it's at least somewhat better. The lower you can get, the better off you will be. Just keep telling yourself that because at some point, they'll be gone. Good luck with tonight. I'll be thinking of you.

    Peace,

    Cat

  5. #35
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Today is day 5 at .33. Last night was a lot better. RLS still there but not AS terrible. Today I woke up feeling good for once and I've felt good all day. It seems that 5 days is the magic number.

    Just in time for my drop to .25 tomorrow. Yikes! It's a little scary to think about but I'm sure it will be ok. I won't die.

    3 days from now I'll be back to work, thank God! Something to keep my mind busy!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-09-2016 at 08:09 PM.
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  6. #36
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    There you have it. You're doing it and doing it well. Only one or two more drops and you'll be done! How awesome is that. Knew you had this once you had a plan and made up your mind to stick to it. So much better than worrying yourself sick about just running out! Much better! YAY

    Peace,

    Cat
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  7. #37
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Cat, thanks so much for your ever positive words. It helps to have someone telling me I can do it!! I'm slowly getting there.

    Have you ever heard of anyone using St Johns Wort at the end of the taper or jump? It apparently reduces the half life significantly as it is a CYP3A4 inducer. So I was just wondering if I started taking it at jump time, if it would help to get it out of my system sooner?

    Anyway... Day 2 at .25. Yay me! Symptoms remain the same. Daytime and evening is tolerable. Night time is no Bueno. I swear if I was a doctor or scientists I would devote the time to finding a cure for RLS. It's so cruel. But since it seems to be my MAIN symptom, I feel like I shouldn't complain. Until I'm laying awake all night!! I hope this is a preview of what will happen when I'm done and I won't have a ton of horrible symptoms.

    Im going back to work tomorrow and cannot wait!

  8. #38
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Good Morning!

    Yes. YAY for you. The RLS is a killer. Always was for me too. I could deal with the aches and even the sleeplessness but the RLS....ARGH!!! I've never researched St. John's Wort but I have seen it recommended here before. It's inexpensive and certainly worth a try. Try to drink as much water as you can and potassium rich foods, like bananas. A heating pad set on low wrapped around my legs gave some relief too.

    If the RLS has been the worst of it so far, it just might be the worst of it from here on out. That's both good and bad news, right? It is horrible! There are some prescription type meds that help with it. Even pre-addiction I would get bouts of it both during the day and at night. Riding in the car would drive me crazy. Maybe go see your doctor and tell him you are having some issue with that. Yo won't even have to tell him why because it's a common bother even aside from detox. Just a thought. I think it was Gabapentin that he gave me, non-addictive but I can't be sure. Search on line for meds that treat it.

    You're doing great!!

    Peace,

    Cat

  9. #39
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Yes Cat, it's plain awful. Throughout my addiction it has always been the one thing I cannot deal with. Even if I do fall asleep it wakes me right up. I've been having the strangest experience with it though... It will torment me throughout the entire night. I can manage to sleep an hour here and there. But as SOON as the sun starts to come up and it's officially daytime, it stops. And I fall asleep for 3 hours. I don't get it. I mean, I welcome the sleep and all, just don't understand why it stops at daylight. I've been trying every supplement I've heard of to stop it. Nothing works. I've been sleeping with a heating pad every night. Oh well... Enough self pity. It's not gonna go anywhere.

    Went to work yesterday and was extremely busy. I never even thought about how I was feeling for 10 straight hours. It was nice to forget about the taper for a while!

    So tomorrow is my last day at .25! I'm dropping to .20 on Tuesday. I really can't believe I'm this far already. I could've never imagined taking such a tiny dose and being ok. But here I am doing it! A couple more drops and I'll be ready! It's an amazing feeling of excitement/accomplishment. And it just shows me how my fears had paralyzed me. I was so terrified of feeling sick and everything that I would never consider going for it.

    It's gonna be a memory soon.
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  10. #40
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    This quote from Joel Osteen just popped up in my Facebook feed. It seemed inspirational for what we're all going through.

    "When you take the high road—when you tell your flesh no—you’re sowing to the spirit. It may not happen overnight, but if you’ll keep making those choices, a great harvest will come."
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  11. #41
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Gonnawin,

    This is all good news, with the exception of the RLS and weird sleep thing. I mentioned very early on about dosing earlier in the day. You said that because of your late hours, it was better to dose later. Maybe that's true but on the other hand, if it's consistent that you're only able to fall asleep early in the morning, is it worth trying to take your dose a few hours earlier than you have? Sub has such a long half life and takes time to take it's full effect, maybe, just maybe if you tried to dose just a few hours earlier, you could fall asleep earlier?? Up to you but maybe worth a try.

    You really are doing great and I'm glad you're back to work. When we're busy, we get out of our head and if you can pass 10 hours without the obsession of noticing every little thing, it's a huge escape. Getting there!!!

    Peace,

    Cat

  12. #42
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    I'm not sure if dosing a little earlier will change anything but im trying it today. It can't hurt anything right?

    Last night was a lot better. It seems to be the 4th night/5th day at every drop that I feel better. Tomorrow I start again.
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  13. #43
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    That makes sense that you're feeling better the day before the drop. That's but one of the reasons a taper can be so harrowing. 3 or 4 so-so days, a good day and then do it all over again.

    You're getting this done like a trooper.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  14. #44
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    So I am still split dosing. I was going to take my nighttime dose a few hours earlier last night but I ended up going to a friends house with hubby and we got home late. So I took it at the same time. I fell asleep right away and slept most of the night with VERY minimal RLS. Omg it was like a gift from heaven to just sleep. I wonder if my body is finally truly adjusting to being on such a tiny dose? Or it was just a fluke. Either way it felt wonderful. It would be great if it stayed this way for a little while!

    Cat, do you think I should still be split dosing at this stage? You're like my personal counselor here. Lol
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  15. #45
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonnawin View Post
    So I am still split dosing. I was going to take my nighttime dose a few hours earlier last night but I ended up going to a friends house with hubby and we got home late. So I took it at the same time. I fell asleep right away and slept most of the night with VERY minimal RLS. Omg it was like a gift from heaven to just sleep. I wonder if my body is finally truly adjusting to being on such a tiny dose? Or it was just a fluke. Either way it felt wonderful. It would be great if it stayed this way for a little while!

    Cat, do you think I should still be split dosing at this stage? You're like my personal counselor here. Lol
    Hey Gonnawin
    Hi there! If i read u right, you're on .25mg? We don't need to split dose once we're under 1 mg. Might just take it in the morning. Or whatever time works best for you.
    The body does adjust to the drops by the fourth day.
    Good job getting down in dose. Start thinking about the jump...

  16. #46
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Hi Ming, today is my first day at .20. I keep thinking about whether to continue splitting the dose but just wasn't sure what would be better. I've been splitting it (3/4 am, 1/4 pm) just to try and alleviate the nighttime RLS but it may work out the same if I just take it all at once.

    Thanks for the reply!

  17. #47
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    .20 mg has been rough. This was day 4 and I've not felt so great at any point. Not really sleeping, SLIGHT chills, constantly cold, RLS at night.

    I'm gonna stay here for a 6 th day I think. I have to be stable for the super low drops coming.

    Been taking DLPA, multi vitamins, potassium and magnesium everyday which helps some. But tonight I was feeling soooo icky, I took 8mg of Imodium. A couple hours later and every symptom is at bay. I even took the blanket off while I watch a movie with my hubby. I wasn't going to go that route and don't plan on using it every day but is SURE helped.
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  18. #48
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hey There Gonna,

    You're being wise to stay put at the .20 for another day. At this point, you are below the .25 critical dose because from now on you can just reduce as far as you can until you're out of subs or just want to jump. Of course, the lower you can get the better but there's been a lot of folks who jumped or began skip days at .25. This dosage is far better than the .4 you were taking when you found us. It really is crazy what just fractions of a mg of sub can do. If you have enough, your next drop can be 10%. Better to be smaller reduction amounts and be as stable as possible.

    I'm excited for you that you really are coming to the end of this. You have reduced by 50% since I met you. Now that's something to be proud of. I have no doubt that you'll be posting soon that you're done.

    Peace,

    Cat

  19. #49
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Hi Cat!

    I agree, it is crazy to think that I'm almost low enough to jump if I had to and it not be as bad as it could be. I've come a long way. I think that since I have such a small amount of sub left that I will continue to make reductions until I just run out (it's not like I have a whole script sitting around) or decide that my dose is too small to make any difference. I just want to soften the landing as much as I can. I have my next doses pre measured at .16. Hopefully I can deal with that better after an extra day at .20.

    And you're right, I have definitely learned the power of .10 of a sub. And now.05. I continue to be amazed at the strength of such a small amount. It's kind of scary!

    When you mentioned .25 being a critical dose, do you mean that it's critical to get at least that low? I haven't heard anyone use that term so just wondered what you meant.

    Thank you!
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  20. #50
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    So sorry! Didn't mean to toss out words that might sound like the end of the world is coming! Yes. You are right. The rule of thumb is to get to or below .25 before skipping days or jumping to minimize symptoms. So, I think you're plan is perfect! Just keep reducing and/or skipping days until what you have is gone. My advice would be much different if your supply was unlimited (just saying that in case someone else is reading this and might think it won't make a difference to stay on subs for as long as they want).

    Peace,

    Cat
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  21. #51
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    No problem! That's what I thought you meant anyway, just wanted to make sure!

    But yeah... I am still feeling bad tonight. It's my 5th day at this dose. I'm getting panicky inside again. I have all these plans about my taper and getting stuck at .20 does NOT fit in. Idk what is going on or why I'm not stabilizing.

    Probably gonna be a long night. : /

  22. #52
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    I think that the mental part is kicking into overdrive for you. It's scary thinking about what is going to happen and if you're strong enough to do this. All the what if's. Remember that there are a lot of people who jumped at .25 successfully. Was it symptom free? Sometimes probably not but most of them went to work and functioned and said that going to work and keeping busy was the most help.

    This is doable. If you are having a hard time at this point mentally, maybe it's time to just jump and get it over with. Your decision. Be strong. You'll get it done.

    Peace,

    Cat

  23. #53
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    You're right again Cat. I finally calmed myself down last night. I just started telling myself I was way better off than I thought. It eventually worked and I was able to get some sleep. I psych myself out quite effectively at times and I had to remember that. I am just scared. I haven't been at a point of having no opiates since 2005 and there are so many thoughts, emotions, fears. Ive also been having flashes of memories of a lot of things that I thought I forgot. Some good, some not so good.
    I know I could jump now if I need to, I just can't yet. I really think I have to try to get used to a lower dose. And so far I'm feeling ok today. Trying to stay positive!! I know in almost there, I just don't need to rush.

  24. #54
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Tomorrow will be my last day at .16. Then dropping to .13.

    My symptoms remain the same during each drop. Some nights the RLS isn't so awful, some nights it keeps me up all night. Last night I think I slept maybe 2 hours total. Made for a great day at work! Imodium helps a LOT but now I can't use the bathroom and I feel so bloated. Trying to not take it tonight and maybe tomorrow will be better.

    I will survive!
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  25. #55
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonnawin View Post
    Tomorrow will be my last day at .16. Then dropping to .13.

    My symptoms remain the same during each drop. Some nights the RLS isn't so awful, some nights it keeps me up all night. Last night I think I slept maybe 2 hours total. Made for a great day at work! Imodium helps a LOT but now I can't use the bathroom and I feel so bloated. Trying to not take it tonight and maybe tomorrow will be better.

    I will survive!
    Almost there! Do you think you might be ready to do some skip days after the next drop? It you're having persistent symptoms, you may be better off doing the skip days and just being done. I bet your symptoms won't be any worse. Also, if you're bloated and not having bathroom issues leave the Immodium alone for now. Once you jump, you may need it to help stay out of the bathroom. After a few days anyway. At first it may be a relief. It was for me! A nuisance but was glad for the cleansing!

    Peace,

    Cat

  26. #56
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    I can't say I'm looking forward to the thought of skipping... But I probably should do it anyway. I may skip after my last day at .13 and see how it goes. If nothing else it will get my levels a little lower. Though at that point it should be pretty low!
    I sure hope you're right and my symptoms don't get a ton worse.

  27. #57
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonnawin View Post
    I can't say I'm looking forward to the thought of skipping... But I probably should do it anyway. I may skip after my last day at .13 and see how it goes. If nothing else it will get my levels a little lower. Though at that point it should be pretty low!
    I sure hope you're right and my symptoms don't get a ton worse.
    I hope so too. I'm just thinking that if you have enough left, you should stay where you are and wait until you stabilize at .13 even if it takes a few days longer than you'd like, then begin skip days or just jump. Depends on how you feel and how much sub you have left. If you have enough left, you do could one more drop to .10 and get stable there and then perhaps you could just jump. As I said from the beginning, you have to be the judge but if you're fighting symptoms, you can jump anytime and begin the final process of getting the rest of the sub out of your system.

    You've done such a wonderful, brave job so far and I know the as the end gets near you've got to be excited but scared at the same time. It will continue to be important to drink tons of water and to eat healthy. Work is going to be the best thing for you. Being idle helps you to concentrate on how you're feeling although I do know you do just fine at work and it's the overnight hours that are hard. This is just something that you may have to tolerate for a while but then it gets better and better.

    Betcha ya never want to do this again! I know I wouldn't. How much sub do you have left now?

    Peace,

    Cat

  28. #58
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    I hadn't thought about stabilizing longer at .13. Right now I have 5 days of it pre-measured. It's been so much easier to do 10 days of measuring at once and then not have to look at it anymore. So beyond that I have approximately 1.4-1.5mg left. So I could easily stay at .13 a couple more days if I need to and still drop further to .10.

    I still can't believe I've done this entire taper since January 10th with 5 8mg pills. So crazy.

    It is getting very real now... Instead of knowing that the end is still way out there, it's literally almost time to face the end. I am definitely scared, but mostly because I will have no time off work and have to be "on" all the time. That will probably be rough but the reward is having myself back after so so long and I cannot wait!

    I've been trying to eat healthier. I'm vegetarian so my diet is a little different. I never drink enough water but I'm trying to do better. And my job is constant standing, walking, lifting things, etc so I will be active a lot of the time.

    Yikes it's exciting to think about coming out on the other side!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-25-2016 at 02:59 PM.
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  29. #59
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    Day 1 at .13 mg!

    I was getting ready to take my dose(which is in powder form) and I dropped the whole stinking thing. So upset. I am down to a very very small amount left and lose a whole dose?? Ahhhhh! Had to do some re-calculating to make up a new one.

    Already not feeling great today at all. All this time I've been telling myself I will taper down to like... .05 or something ridiculously small and today I'm realizing that .13 may not do jack for me. I've been feeling a little shaky all day, extremely lacking in motivation to move around., my nose is running a little. Ugh. If this is how it's gonna be I suppose I will just go for it. I really wanted to drop to 10 for a few days first for my own sanity.

    Oh man I'm getting scared.
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  30. #60
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Oops!!! Maybe it's kismet. Take a deep breath. Just remember that you have been reducing since early January, right? The half life is long but that's the whole point in slowly reducing so that your body won't be so jolted from a sudden jump. (And, yes even though it's hard to believe, that .13 makes a difference).

    Don't dread the thought of work or having to stay busy and physical at work. It's going to be the best thing for you. The more physically active we are, the faster our metabolism is and so the quicker you'll get rid of the sub in your system. This makes sense, right? I by no means intend to diminish what you;re going through but I hope that if I remind you that I have watched many people get down to .25 and begin their skip days or even jump, it will encourage you. Bette, who is a member here and is a nurse didn't miss a day of work when she jumped. I don't remember if she jumped at .25 or went down to .125. She always says that working is what got her through it and found it totally manageable. I hope it's the same for you.

    Anytime now. Don't drive yourself crazy about how much you have left. You are low enough now that you may just be extending things. I'm not criticizing, believe me. Just trying to assure you that at this point whenever you jump or run out, you are in a much better place than you were a couple of months ago. You've learned that there's a huge difference in just fractions, crumbs. You're in a much better place now. Face it head on with courage. Just sticking with this strict taper without faltering shows just how strong you are.

    Check in soon. I watch for you.

    Peace,

    Cat

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