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Worried about taking suboxone too early
  1. #31
    Brotop is offline Member
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    Yes I have been on and off them for years. I don't think I ever took them long enough to get addicted to them to experience withdrawals like I have been dealing with this time around. I had my surgery or Stone's took the pills during then stopped, months would go by I'd get a stone or have surgery and then I would have them again. This has been ongoing since I was 17. At the age of 34 I had my real major knee surgery more serious than the other 5 that's when I was prescribed the largest amount of my meds. I was given the Oxys for a year and then switched immediately to tramadol which I didn't find worked at all so I stopped. I had my extra oxy that I would take if I was having a bad day. The pain kept getting worse and worse and I tried holding off just taking a pill when I just couldn't deal. After my mother passed and all the oxy pills that were left over that were stonger than mine I started taking them more regularly. I have tried stopping them several times and I couldn't. I swapped they oxy and went with the vic and still couldn't get myself over the finish line. That's why I made an appointment with the addiction center in my town for help. I told her my whole story and what my goals were. I was open to any treatment that she thought was suitable. I told her I want to be done with it all and if starting suboxone I do not want to be on it for long.
    Yes I do know what it is like to be in pain without the pain meds. I am very hard on myself about mistakes I make and I try very hard to make the right choices for myself. When I walked into that office today I know for a fact that needed to be there. I really don't want to second guess my decision.

  2. #32
    Brotop is offline Member
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    Just an update. I stuck with just the initial 1/4 strip last night at 8pm. I did have a lot of anxiety last night and didn't sleep much at all off and on maybe an hour and a half total. This morning at 5 I felt like I needed more so I cut of half of the other 1/4 and took that 1/8. I will wait and see how that is. Trying to keep my anxiety down as I am very nervous. I hope you all have a great day. Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

  3. #33
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Good morning Brotop, I'm trying to post my experience strength and hope here. I do not in any way want to deter you in your progress moving forward to getting and staying clean. I'm sure others with experience with subtaper will be by to support you as I have no experience myself with subs but I am an addict and I have no self control I could never taper I always wanted more. The physical and menta partl of getting clean is formidable. Anxiety and being nervous is our brains crying out for the drugs we have put in us. Have you thought about getting face to face support Na,Aa, Counseling, thearpy? It will help you talking with others going through all you are. Good luck on your journey to getting clean.
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  4. #34
    Brotop is offline Member
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    I get inside my head and totally freak myself out. I am afraid to take anything I have never had before. Which sometimes is a blessing because I would never try any illegal drugs like >>>>>> or snort, smoke or shoot pills. I know my case may not seem or be worse than other people's but it is a problem for me that I was not able to beat on my own without seeking help. I know my anxiety is coming from being afraid of the subs. The thoughts just run threw my mind like crazy. Should I take this, is it going to work, if I take it is it gonna kill me and so on and so on. I know it may should crazy or stupid but you can't just shut off your mind. I am in the tunnel and I can see the light and I will deal with whatever it takes to get out of it. I know I am stronger than this and I just need to bring that out in myself and get out on the other side of the tunnel on the sunny side of the street.
    I wish you all the luck in the world for your recovery as well!

  5. #35
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Brotop, yes the Diease of Addiction is in the mind...the drugs for this addict is just a symptom. I'm just trying to share my experience with you. I wish I had found this forum 33+ years ago like you only got my drugs Legally. I too thought I was unique and didn't have a problem yet I was on a drug Addiction forum reaching out for help. I guess I'm trying to say that your stepping up your game with the subs as Randy corrected me they are 300 times Stronger than morphine. I feel if you are in the right mindset and really want this more than anything for yourself an easier route would be coldturkey from the Vic's a week or so the withdrawals will be over than the Mental journey begins. The hell I've been through I wouldn't wish this on anyone. The subs have a long half life so it's takes along time to rid your body of the drugs. Read some threads here to gain more knowledge on what you are going to experience. Everyone is different but the Diease is the same for all of us. Be well..
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  6. #36
    Brotop is offline Member
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    So your telling me since I quit the Oxi but could get past the vics because the withdrawals and tapering was too much for me to do on my own that when I went to the doctor for help, which I made clear I was open for whatever treatment that she would think would be best for me that she pushed me to up my game. I did not go in there looking for suboxone, I went there for help. To me she seemed very supportive and didn't push me to take much. She told me to start low and to see how I feel. Didn't seem like someone who was trying to up my game. I don't know what to believe.

  7. #37
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    I'm Proud of You for reaching out for help. I was just sharing my experience. As you are taking the subs now and tapering with the Support of your doctor than stick with that plan to freedom my friend. I wish nothing but the best for you. We are all here to support you..
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  8. #38
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey brotop. How you feeling today? Just like lvg said we aren't here to judge you or make you feel guilty or second guess yourself. You know your body and what you need to do to get clean. We are here to support you whatever course that may be. We are just trying to educate you. Subs are strong and the acute w/d last a long time. It's a long roller coaster. But if you follow Robert325 sub taper plan you can minimize that pain. Many members have used it successfully with minimal w/d.

    Like I said last night I jumped from 1mg of sub before finding this site and these amazing people. I stumbled here alone and afraid on day 11 of crushing w/d. 1 mg of sub is still a hefty dose and I'd say it took me around a month before I really turned the corner and started getting back to myself. Check out my thread it's in this section and titled "Day 11 no suboxone, looking for info." I chronicled the first month and a half religiously. It was rough. But if you follow the taper plan it won't be near that bad. There are many other threads of people who have tapered much lower and I'd encourage you to read them. They really help.

    Just like lvg said we're proud of you and only want to help. Keep posting!! It helps. Let us know how it's going.

    Keep doing the next right thing!!
    Beef
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  9. #39
    Brotop is offline Member
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    I am not feeling the best. I took the 2mg as my first dose I felt a little better but was afraid to take anymore of that. I had a lot of anxiety last night and didn't sleep much at all. At 5am I took 1mg. I had a little bit of energy to take out the trash for trash day and clean the some of the kitchen. That left me feeling completely wiped. I have not eaten much the past month. I had nothing but juice and water yesterday. I have no appetite. I made some of those pillsbury cinnamon buns and forced myself to eat one and a glass of milk. I was gonna take 1mg at 12 to see if that will help. I am trying to be very slow with the dosing till I find out how much my body needs. I do not want to give it more than what it needs and I don't wanna dose too close to another. I really don't want to over do it.
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  10. #40
    Brotop is offline Member
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    I said not much to eat the past month. I meant week. Oops. Lol

  11. #41
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Platinum Member
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    The first two weeks of my detox I pretty much lived on protein shakes. And bananas. Water and Gatorade, as much as you can handle. Subs really dehydrate you, it's really important to drink as much as possible. Just get yourself stable on as low a dose as manageable. Then you can follow the taper plan and say goodbye to opiates. If 3mg keeps you stable then we can go from there and start reducing in a few days. Get excited! It'll be over soon. And you'll have your clean life to look forward to.

    Beef

  12. #42
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brotop View Post
    So your telling me since I quit the Oxi but could get past the vics because the withdrawals and tapering was too much for me to do on my own that when I went to the doctor for help, which I made clear I was open for whatever treatment that she would think would be best for me that she pushed me to up my game. I did not go in there looking for suboxone, I went there for help. To me she seemed very supportive and didn't push me to take much. She told me to start low and to see how I feel. Didn't seem like someone who was trying to up my game. I don't know what to believe.

    Hey Brotop, let's try to clear the air and help you to understand our point of view. That way hopefully you'll understand our side of things and know we only want to help. That's all we want to do is to help you through this.

    Ok, and bluntly, taking Suboxone for a habit such as yours is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. It's 100% overkill. When you went to the clinic seeking help, unfortunately there are doctors in clinics like that they prey on patients and will steer them towards Suboxone because of the easy amount of money they make from it. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, I think it was Beef who said it, these sub doctors only need to take an 8 hour course and they're able to begin prescribing Suboxone. That's it, just a class I could pass with flying colors. If I had a medical degree I would set up a clinic prescribing Suboxone and I would be a Millionaire in about a month. Fact. They make Millions off this drug these sub doctors do.

    IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT....No one is blaimg you because you only wanted help in the best possible manner. Not you fault they prescribed Suboxone, so please understand no one here is judging you because you went to the clinic, and they placed you on Suboxone. Not what we are about. We were simply saying you didn't need the Suboxone. And to be clear, Suboxone is about 30 (thirty) X stronger than Morphine, so it's exceedingly powerful. Not only that it has a half life between 24 and 72 hours which means it remains in your system a long time. What's done is done and we'll let that part go. Ok?

    What needs to happen now is for US to help YOU through your Suboxone Therapy. And we most certainly will do that if you're willing to follow a few suggestions. Beef can help you, so can Lvg, and therfe are other here too with the knowledge and experience to help. So you're deinitely in good hands. So relax and let us help you.

    You'll want to take the Suboxone at the same time(s) everyday. It's not intended to be taken on an "as needed" basis. Don't take it when you feel like it, make a time that works for you and take it that time everyday. You'll feel much better doing that. And try not to take it too close to bedtime as Suboxone has been known to keep people awake or disrupt their sleep. Take it in the am. You can split your dose evenly and take only 2 doses, about 8-10 hours apart if you want. Suxoxone is intended to be taken just once daily, but you can split it.

    Hope this helps matters. We're here for you. Ask all the questiuons you have. I wanted to come back and explain a few things to you. Take care.

    Randy
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  13. #43
    Brotop is offline Member
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    Speaking of morphine. A few years back I found out I am morphine resistant. They found this out while I had hospitalized for kidney stones. I had to have 2 different surgeries in 3 days to have them removed. There was one on each side blocking each kidney. After several doses of it they had to use something else. It was later in during my stay at the hospital that they told me I was resistant to it. I had never heard such a thing. Has any of you heard that before.

  14. #44
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Hello Brotop,

    First and foremost, congratulations for making a decision to get off painkillers!! And thank you for the tip on another thread about the wrist heaters!!!! I have had surgery on both of my wrists. (Also, like you, I've had multiple serious knee surgeries and about 8 others

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    Forceout is offline Member
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    (Continued post. Some of my post dropped)


    The people advising you know how to help you and have helped literally hundreds, yes, hundreds of others just like you.

    I am really just stopping by to say welcome to this wonderful place. Miracles happen here. I truly believe that! I am 19 days off hydrocodone for the first time in five years (every day) I could not have done this without having accidentally stumbled in here. These people are very, very honest and caring soles that want nothing at all except to help you. Isn't that amazing!!!!???

    Again, Welcome!!! So glad you are here!!!!

    Forceout

  16. #46
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brotop View Post
    Speaking of morphine. A few years back I found out I am morphine resistant. They found this out while I had hospitalized for kidney stones. I had to have 2 different surgeries in 3 days to have them removed. There was one on each side blocking each kidney. After several doses of it they had to use something else. It was later in during my stay at the hospital that they told me I was resistant to it. I had never heard such a thing. Has any of you heard that before.

    Good Morning!

    Never heard of anyone being Morphine "resistant". Probably not something that happens very often is my guess. I have heard of people having an allergic reaction to Morphine just as someone might have with other meds.

    How are you doing on the Suboxone? Are you taking your doses at the same times everyday? Feeling ok?

    Have a nice day!

    Randy

  17. #47
    Brotop is offline Member
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    Good morning randy. Today is so far my best day. I am feeling more normal. After a week I finally got a good amount of sleep. I was able to start eating yesterday. I am definately feeling the best I have in the past month. My anxiety has calmed down quite a bit. The pain in my knee is a lot more prominent but nothing I can't deal with. Thank you for checking in I hope you all have a great day.
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  18. #48
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brotop View Post
    Good morning randy. Today is so far my best day. I am feeling more normal. After a week I finally got a good amount of sleep. I was able to start eating yesterday. I am definately feeling the best I have in the past month. My anxiety has calmed down quite a bit. The pain in my knee is a lot more prominent but nothing I can't deal with. Thank you for checking in I hope you all have a great day.


    AWESOME, Glad to hear it! Wooo Hooo! That's the way you should feel on the Suboxone. It allows you to do anything you want to do while feeling pretty doggone good.

    For your knee have you ever tried taking 2 Extra Strength Tylenol together with 2 Motrin or Ibuprofin? Something about the two mixed together provides better pain relief. Or perhaps trying some Aleve by it self. Either of those work for my aches and pains after some strenuous workouts. Just a thought.

    Randy
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  19. #49
    Brotop is offline Member
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    I can't take any NSIDS they make me very sick. I can't try some tylonal but I highly doubt it. My knee is complete bone on bone. 2 more years till I can finally have my total knee replacement. (Dr. Will not do it before 40) it has been a long 10 years. The year prior I will have to have all the hardware removed so it will heal up before the replacement (2 plates 10 screws) just two more years till I can start to really feel true relief. Thank you for the tip. I will try the tylonal it's worth a shot.
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  20. #50
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brotop View Post
    I can't take any NSIDS they make me very sick. I can't try some tylonal but I highly doubt it. My knee is complete bone on bone. 2 more years till I can finally have my total knee replacement. (Dr. Will not do it before 40) it has been a long 10 years. The year prior I will have to have all the hardware removed so it will heal up before the replacement (2 plates 10 screws) just two more years till I can start to really feel true relief. Thank you for the tip. I will try the tylonal it's worth a shot.

    Wow, that's some messed up knee. Sorry you have to deal with that. Not to be argumentative, but I know if a knee is bone to bone the result is indeed usually a knee replacement no matter a persons age. I know a guy that that was a gifted athlete in college and played pro sports. He ruined both of his knees. His doctor performed a TKR (total knee replacement) on his left knee at the age of 31, and he will need his right knee done very soon, as in next year (2018). He's 34 now so he'll be 35 when the other one is done.

    Can you get a second opinion on the matter? Perhaps a different doctor would be willing to do the replacement and get you out of the serious pain you're in?

    Has the doctor talked about injections to help relieve the pain? I know they can administer Cordisone, Ladicaine, and other numbing agents. Are you a candidate for that procedure?

    Just trying to help and giving my 2 cents.

    Randy

  21. #51
    Brotop is offline Member
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    The injury happened to my knee originally in high school and I had 2 surgeries done while I saw still in high school. Torn acl partial mcl and meniscus tear. The first doctor cut out my acl and cut away damaged meniscus instead of a repair. The doctor got sued for malpractice for operating on the wrong knee of someone. He was long gone by the time all the facts of my case came out. I have had 2 other doctors before my current and he is honestly the best in my state. Based in my age and lifestyle (working 6 days a week 50-60 hours on my feet on concrete floors) he said I would burn thru the knee in 2-3 years. He wants to delay it as long as possible. If I insist on having it he will do it but I do trust what he is saying to me. He did a major surgery to realign how I stand so my weight will shift to the outside where there is a tiny piece of meniscus left. Which is why I have those plates and screws. They had to cut the bones in my lower leg to accomplish it. On the upside I have had a lot of time to plan what is going to happen when I do have the surgery because there would be no way for me to continue at a job I have been at for over 20 years. I know the replacement are designed to go into older people (obviously in younger people with no options either) As far as I was last told you can only have 2 done on the same knee. Both of us agreed that using one in my late 20's was not the best idea. He has done 2 scopes after the osteotomey and on the last one he said he can't go in again unless it is to take the hardware out before the replacement. He said the inside of my knee looks like an 80 year old womans. It is full of arthritis, scar tissue (I have 22 scars on my knee one of which goes half way down my leg) and I no have osteoarthritis. It's pretty much a mess. I'm gonna do my best and stick to the plan and hold out as long as I possibly can. Hope medical technology gets even better and waiting will pay off for the better. I have had both corozone shots which gave relief for maybe a day and I also got the gel injections which did not work at all.

    When I injured my knee in high school I was a star soccer player with opportunities for a full scholarship to play at any college in the country. My how one injury can completely change a life. As much as I loved playing, I wish I never did.

  22. #52
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Platinum Member
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    Ugh. That's terrible. I'm so sorry about that. I also had a friend who had a total knee replacement last year at 33. He is doing better now but as a tattoo artist he is much less mobile than you are.

  23. #53
    Brotop is offline Member
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    Thank you. It is what it is. If I was able to have a job that wasn't so physically damanding im sure it would be more of an option for me. I'm just glad he was honest with me and I had time to plan. A tattoo artist, now that is a fascinating job!!!

  24. #54
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Platinum Member
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    He's amazing to watch. And I got some complimentary ink when he got bored at the shop. So win win there. Lol

    Beef

  25. #55
    Brotop is offline Member
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    That's awesome beef. I watch pretty much all the tattoo shows on tv. I found the art of it amazing. I however myself have never gotten any ink although I would like to at some point! I hope you had a great day. Today I took my aunt (who is handicapped) for a ride up the coast to Maine. Stopped for a late lunch and did a little shopping and headed home. Was a nice day!

  26. #56
    Brotop is offline Member
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    Very weird at 8pm after a day of feeling ok. I started to feel almost like I am going threw withdrawals. I got the chills back and the diarrhea. The doctor gave me 12mg to take each day. I wanted to take as little as possible.
    Tuesday 8pm 2mg
    Wed 5am 1mg
    Wed 1pm 2mg
    Thursday 6am 2mg
    Thursday 2pm 1mg
    Could I be not taking enough and some has dropped out of my system making me start to withdraw again.
    I really don't know what I should do.

  27. #57
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Platinum Member
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    Subs have a long half life 24-72 hours with a median of 36-37. I'd say your body is still getting used to them. It can take a few days to stabalize. Try splitting your doses evenly tomorrow. 1.5mg in the am and 1.5mg 8-10 hours after that. Try giving it a few days to stabalize. Make sure your doses are accurate also. There is a big difference in .5 mg. I know it doesn't seem like it with such a small sliver, but they really are super strong. See if that works out for you tomorrow. Like Randy said taking subs on an as needed basis is really not how you want to do this.

    Tattoos are very very addictive!! The art and process is amazing!! I'm not loaded up with them. Just got three big ones. (I didn't think a tiny nautical star would look good on me considering how big I am.) But as soon as I got my first one I was already thinking what I wanted for the next ones. They are a lot of fun.

    Keep us updated and let us know how it goes.
    Beef
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-30-2017 at 08:57 PM.

  28. #58
    Brotop is offline Member
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    I was taking them when I woke up and the. 8 hours later. So I should do 10 hours apart. I cut them pretty even. I didn't want to take too much one time and too little the next day. I did the 2 and then the one cause I thought it would be easier in the measuring of the cuts. I will give it a try tomorrow morning. Tonight be a rough one. I am getting pretty sick. I really don't understand it. I wouldn't say I have felt really good the past day and a half but I would def say I felt ok. Very tired but I was trying to push myself to be active instead of laying around like a bumb on a log.

    As far a tats go I want to do a bunch on one arm. All nautical themed. I live right on the ocean in a small fishing town in Gloucester, Massachusetts. You may have heard of it before (perfect storm, wicked tuna) so obviously I want a lighthouse and and anchor that kinda stuff.
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  29. #59
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brotop View Post
    I was taking them when I woke up and the. 8 hours later. So I should do 10 hours apart. I cut them pretty even. I didn't want to take too much one time and too little the next day. I did the 2 and then the one cause I thought it would be easier in the measuring of the cuts. I will give it a try tomorrow morning. Tonight be a rough one. I am getting pretty sick. I really don't understand it. I wouldn't say I have felt really good the past day and a half but I would def say I felt ok. Very tired but I was trying to push myself to be active instead of laying around like a bumb on a log.

    As far a tats go I want to do a bunch on one arm. All nautical themed. I live right on the ocean in a small fishing town in Gloucester, Massachusetts. You may have heard of it before (perfect storm, wicked tuna) so obviously I want a lighthouse and and anchor that kinda stuff.

    The 3mg you're taking daily is about average for most people. Some do require a little more sub to stabilize. If I were you I would try taking a .25mg "rescue" dose and see if you feel better. That's 1/4 of 1mg. It's a very tiny piece, but a powerful one. I think that may help you feel better tonight. Then we'll see how you feel tomorrow and go from there.

    Randy
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  30. #60
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Platinum Member
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    I'd say try to tough it out tonight if you can. Then do the even doses tomorrow and see how that treats you. Who hasn't heard of Gloucester??? That'd make for a nice sleeve.

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