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240 mg oxy habit & deathly afraid of suboxone
  1. #1
    OxyBeGone is offline New Member
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    Default 240 mg oxy habit & deathly afraid of suboxone

    Hi there,

    So, I noticed that a gentleman by the name of Robert_325 has been here in the past to help individuals with their induction. I was hoping that he was still here, but I guess not. I will be starting suboxone on 10/10/2014, hopefully. I received a script for 14 8mg/2mg sublingual sheets. My doc told me to take half of one as soon as I started feeling uncomfortable from the withdrawals. I know, after reading through the forums, that is a BAD idea.

    So, I plan on following Robert's guide 100%. The one thing that I am worried about is the induction. I own a business and missing ANY work is out of the question. My plan is to take my regular dose of about 200 mg Oxy IR's on Wednesday, then take my last dose ever of 60 - 90 mg on Thursday morning at about 7am. Then I will push through the whole day at work and hope that I am in enough withdrawals to start my induction Friday morning so that I can make it into work that same day.

    My biggest worry is that I won't be ready to start the subs on Friday morning after I go a full 24 hours. Part of it is the high dose I am on and the other part is that I've gone cold turkey before and I don't even get all the symptoms that are on the cows worksheet. Like the stomach issues, nausea, dilated pupils, sweats (I actually only get the chills), etc.

    I am curious to know what people think. I know that 24 hours is NOT enough time for my receptors to become completely clear of the oxy, especially with the dose I am on. Is it necessary for them to be COMPLETELY clear, or just mostly clear. Also, let's say 24 - 30 hours go by and I test the waters by inducing with .25 mg and go into precip withdrawals, will it last very long to the point where I may not make it into work that day?

    ANY help or guidance would be greatly appreciated because I am so scared, but I am so done being an opiate junky as well. Friday is the day, no matter what. This fear has thrown me into a vicious cycle that seems as if I will never get off the pills. I just want to be done with it and miss as little work as possible. Thanks in advance for any help or advice that anyone is willing to give.

  2. #2
    KSinMT is offline Member
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    There's no way to really tell how clear your receptors will be at a certain time. What Robert's plan recommends is using a COWS worksheet to determine when to start the induction, where you score your withdrawal symptoms and then you induct once your score is a 26. Google the COWS worksheet and become familiar with it. There are several people around here that will help you with the induction process, they'll be along soon I bet!

  3. #3
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxyBeGone View Post
    My plan is to take my regular dose of about 200 mg Oxy IR's on Wednesday, then take my last dose ever of 60 - 90 mg on Thursday morning at about 7am. Then I will push through the whole day at work and hope that I am in enough withdrawals to start my induction Friday morning so that I can make it into work that same day.

    Also, let's say 24 - 30 hours go by and I test the waters by inducing with .25 mg and go into precip withdrawals, will it last very long to the point where I may not make it into work that day?
    Hey OxyBeGone - The thing that's MOST important at induction is to forget how much TIME it takes before you're ready to dose, using that Cow's score is what will keep you out of PW's most every time. You stop your very last dose of Oxy, don't take anything that might make me feel better in the way of "comfort" meds, and wait until you're in moderate to severe withdrawals as evidenced by getting to at LEAST a score of 26 on the Cows. It might take 24 hours, it may take 36 hours, or it could take longer before you're ready to take that first dose of sub. If you dose and don't use the Cows it's purely a guessing game in my opinion if you're ready or not. USE THE COWS!

    Here's the link to Robert's plan. He has retired from the forum.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...tml#post436333

    Here is also the link to a Cows Sheet -

    http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_...flow_sheet.pdf

    Read everything over carefully as it's explained in detail. If you "test" the waters as you say and do go into PW's they could last hours up to a day, possibly longer. I went into the TWICE and I can GUARANTEE you want no part of PW's. Avoid them at all costs!!!
    Iwantoff2013 likes this.

  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxyBeGone View Post
    My doc told me to take half of one as soon as I started feeling uncomfortable from the withdrawals. I know, after reading through the forums, that is a BAD idea.
    I forget to add some helpful info related to what your doctor's induction instructions were. Most of the sub doctor's really have no idea how to properly use subs, especially perform an induction in your best interest. And I bet the percentage is really low as to how many of the sub doc's have ever used this drug?

    Robert's plan is a great one and it suggests a much lower beginning dose. I absolutely agree with that. If you were to take 4mgs right away, and possibly more later, you might never know how little of a dose would have gotten you stable. If you start at .50 - 1mg, or whatever the plan calls for, and wait at LEAST one full hour (90 minutes would be better) before taking another dose, the chances are very good you would get stable on 3-4mg, or LESS!!! Just follow the plan.

    Do this right and you only have to do it ONCE!
    Iwantoff2013 likes this.

  5. #5
    MrJones is offline Member
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    Just wanted to reiterate what Randy said about dosing in increments to find your stable dose. 0.5 at a time worked well for me, and I was lucky to stabilize at a very small dose. I wish I could help with your question about precip. I started sub from methadone and had to wait until the morning of day 4, but that doesn't really do you much good. But that said, I didn't have anywhere to be for those days either. I've never had precip wd, but I was determined not to learn first hand. Like you, I didn't have a lot of the symptoms on the cows sheet, especially the ones that carry a heavy score, so I tried to keep my mind busy as much as possible since there was no way I was going to get up and "do stuff" to keep busy. I can say that during that time, I drew from the experiences of many on this forum to keep spirits up until it was time to dose. A proper metaphor would be seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

  6. #6
    The Husband is offline Member
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    OxyBeGone, Have you ever actually tried to quit before? I ask because Sub is another opiate and a very strong one at that. Many people have gone to subs only to realize that because of their longer half life they are even harder to get off then opiates with a shorter half life (ex. Oxy IR 6hr >> Sub 72hrs) this mean the entire time you are on the sub just like methadone it builds up in your system.

    With that said many people on these forums have successfully tapered off suboxone using Roberts plan. The issue I see is that so many people run to subs because they are afraid of w/d and just want to take something to stop w/d not understanding the full scope of things. The just are set on what they want to do and then when they are told they need to hit COWS score of 26 before starting subs the are committed so go through with it not realizing if they waited another 2-3 days they would be done with w/d and on with the next chapter of their life.

    Sadly many people get stuck on Sub's for years because doctors prescribe this medicine more freely when they don't truly understand what strength it is.

    NY, who posted on the Prescription Drug Addiction section was able to cut his use from 400mg (nasal) to 200mg (oral) and then he successfully taper and just is about 7 or 8 days clean.

    I would NOT recommend going from say in your situation 200mg - 100mg that is to big of a drop but I would recommend that you do try to tapper the oxy. If you want to try I will give you a good taper method to follow that has worked for me and others.

    All I know is I was able to taper of oxy after being prescribed it and various other strong opiates for a decade. I was at the same split in the road you are at one year and one month ago (Sept. 4th 2013) I choose to quit and I suggest you go look on the sub's section and look for someone who started subs around Sept. 2013 are they still on subs?

    If they are clean I would imagine they were on subs for at the very least 4 months and I bet they still w/d no matter how they tapered...

  7. #7
    MrJones is offline Member
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    The Husband does make a good point. I quit dilaudid cold a few years ago, but relapsed (thats when I decided to go to the meth clinic). Wasn't doing a whole lot every day, maybe 3-6 per day (they're roughly the same as a roxy 40, if you aren't familiar with them), but I left town and secluded myself for two weeks at the lake, and honestly didn't really have much wd after the first couple of days. The second I came back home though I went right back to them. I do admit that I wasn't mentally prepared at all to quit though, hence the immediate relapse, but had I been, it might have saved me from being a slave to methadone these last three years. But I definitely don't want to talk you out of it if you feel its right for you.

  8. #8
    OxyBeGone is offline New Member
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    Wow, The Husband, you pretty much hit it right where I've been for the last 10 hours. In my mind, I can only imagine that sub withdrawals are gonna be just as bad. I've quit before using Kratom. Took me 2 weeks and the kratom withdrawals weren't bad at all, but it was only about a 60 mg / day habit. And still very hard to do. I've been thinking that if I can make it 36 hours to induction, why not just taper down to 100 mg over the course of a few days and quit the same way I did 6 months ago using the kratom. I'm going to give it a try. At 200 mg, the kratom does nothing, but it will if I can taper down to 100 mg.

    Thanks for all of the responses. I truly appreciate it. I guess I didn't find the answers I was looking for, but The Husband, you definitely helped me make up my mind. I'm going to skip the subs for now and only use it as a last ditch effort in case I'm too weak to do this without them. God I hope I can do this. Don't want to be here anymore constantly looking for a way out of my addiction. So sick of it.

  9. #9
    OxyBeGone is offline New Member
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    Just logging my progress. More or less as a journal for me. Who knows, it may help somebody else out, one day, that is in this same predicament. So, today and tomorrow is 150 mg, that's 48 hours. Then, Friday and Saturday is 90 mg. Then Sunday and Monday is 45 mg. Then Tues through Sat is only Kratom maintenance. Then done with everything. We'll see how it goes.

  10. #10
    The Husband is offline Member
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    That is what sub's are really meant for is a last resort. You tried and failed many times over or you are a danger to yourself by the amount/tolerance of consuming opiates but thats just my opinion.

    This is how you should taper:

    Day 1 (160mg)
    Day 3 (120mg)
    Day 5 (100mg)
    Day 7 (80mg)
    Day 9 on Take a quarter less reducing each day by 7.5mg assuming your taking the blue 30mg oxy IR
    Don't drop everyday if you feel more and more sick back off and only drop 7.5mg every 2-3 days if you can tolerate the taper go all they way down to only taking a total of 7.5mg per day and then discontinue use.

    In my experience the worst of your symptoms should be gone by the time you taper under 80mg. The reason why you slow taper at the end is only to try to make the landing as smooth as possible assuming you taper properly the worst w/d will be adjusting from the higher doses like over 150mg once you get down lower figure what works for you. Just don't dose all at once, i recommend spreading your doses it. It could be 1/2 every 4 hours or it could be a quarter every 3 hours depending what point your at. You can always wait 8 - 12 hours between doses as well just try not to get so sick you will take more then the taper plan. i would definatly go to a sauna and sweat out the toxins (purging your body of the oxy)

  11. #11
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxyBeGone View Post
    Just logging my progress. More or less as a journal for me. Who knows, it may help somebody else out, one day, that is in this same predicament. So, today and tomorrow is 150 mg, that's 48 hours. Then, Friday and Saturday is 90 mg. Then Sunday and Monday is 45 mg. Then Tues through Sat is only Kratom maintenance. Then done with everything. We'll see how it goes.
    Good advice and suggestions from The Husband. If tapering is your choice then I support you all the way. Only thing I would add is that subs aren't a horrible drug, or a terrible choice to help fight addiction. They certainly have helped many, and actually saved my life. I am the first to say they should be used as a last resort and have said so many times in different posts. They can be abused just like any other drug, but if used correctly they can be a great tool for those that truly require them.

    Anyway I wanted to respond to your intended use of Kratom to help you get off the Oxy when done with your taper. I have a little experience with that stuff and I would seriously caution you to be very, very careful with it. Kratom has it's own addictive traits, and there can certainly be withdrawal symptoms when stopping it. It has known to cause problems to those that think it's a safe and problem-free substance. I think if your goal is to get off drugs you might consider leaving the Kratom alone. Up to you of course, only my suggestion.

    All the best to you. Hope you make it and I know you can. Just have to really want this for yourself.

  12. #12
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxyBeGone View Post
    Just logging my progress. More or less as a journal for me. Who knows, it may help somebody else out, one day, that is in this same predicament. So, today and tomorrow is 150 mg, that's 48 hours. Then, Friday and Saturday is 90 mg. Then Sunday and Monday is 45 mg. Then Tues through Sat is only Kratom maintenance. Then done with everything. We'll see how it goes.
    I could never taper off my drug of choice (Norco and Percocet), so kudos to you! It takes a hell of a lot willpower, which I simply didn't have. My only suggestion would be to taper a bit slower. Seems pretty fast to taper down from 150mg within 6 days. However, if you feel if you handle it, go for it!

    I wish you all the best.
    Kat

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