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About ready to try again....
  1. #1
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Default About ready to try again....

    I posted here several months ago to try and get help stopping my pain medication. I studied for DAYS on in and many of you here tried to help me....but when I tried to stop with Subs, I went in PC withdrawal and my life turned upside down. I was awake for 4 days in complete hell. It didn't work and I ended up using more/harder meds.

    My plan was to just use the meds long enough to recover from the hell I just went through.....but I ended up staying on and using for about 6 months. Every time I thought about trying again....I remembered the hell I went through and I would find myself having a massive panic attack. So after 6 months and an insane amount of money....I need to try again. I was going to to move and had big plans....but all that changed.

    I know what I did wrong last time.....I simply didn't wait long enough after my last dose to start taking Subs. I was told 12 hrs......but waited 16. 16 still was not enough time. My only conclusion is that my medicine lasts longer than 12 hrs. So....this time I am going to wait 24 hrs. Heck....I'm actually going to try and wait 30 if I can. I passed 26 on the COWS last time.....and I still went into PW.

    A few questions....

    1. After 24 hrs.....plan is to take 2mg, wait 45 mins to see if I feel better. If I do....take another 2mg. After 90 more mins....another 2mg. Now, what do I do if after my first Sub dose and I don't feel better....but worse? Do I have to wait 12 more hrs before I try another 2mg of Subs?

    2. Will cutting my opiate dose down the last 2-3 days before I start Subs help? Should I try taking just enough so that I don't get sick? I'm thinking that by doing this.....it will help with my induction by possibly having a cleaner system....less opiates on my receptors increasing the chance for the Subs to work? Just an idea....

    3. What can I possibly do more so that I don't go mad in the 24hrs I'm withdrawling? I vomit like crazy, I get chills, I can't sit still, it really is hell on earth. Curious if there are any new tricks I can use to help time move faster.

    Finally....I only use so that I don't get sick. I never used for rec purposes. I was wounded severely in the military, and the docs put me on massive amounts of pain meds. Had I known this would happen....I Never would have let them give me opiates. Opiates destroyed my life. I can't work, wife left, I'm a waste of space. I need to try and do this one more time. I just need to get passed the first phase and induce the Subs correctly. I can't walk well without pain meds.....but I don't care. I want to.... NEED to stop. When I was shot in the service, that bullet did far more than just break my spine, it took everything away from me.

    If anyone can possibly throw any advice my way....I Would very much appreciate it. I'm on Xanax for anxiety, currently 6mg ed. I was using hydromorphone....but am now using something else. Thank you....and thanks again to those who tried to help me last year. This is a new year resolution I guess. I need to do this....Ive Hit bottom. God Bless one and all.


    Z
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  2. #2
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    I posted here several months ago to try and get help stopping my pain medication. I studied for DAYS on in and many of you here tried to help me....but when I tried to stop with Subs, I went in PC withdrawal and my life turned upside down. I was awake for 4 days in complete hell. It didn't work and I ended up using more/harder meds.

    My plan was to just use the meds long enough to recover from the hell I just went through.....but I ended up staying on and using for about 6 months. Every time I thought about trying again....I remembered the hell I went through and I would find myself having a massive panic attack. So after 6 months and an insane amount of money....I need to try again. I was going to to move and had big plans....but all that changed.

    I know what I did wrong last time.....I simply didn't wait long enough after my last dose to start taking Subs. I was told 12 hrs......but waited 16. 16 still was not enough time. My only conclusion is that my medicine lasts longer than 12 hrs. So....this time I am going to wait 24 hrs. Heck....I'm actually going to try and wait 30 if I can. I passed 26 on the COWS last time.....and I still went into PW.

    A few questions....

    1. After 24 hrs.....plan is to take 2mg, wait 45 mins to see if I feel better. If I do....take another 2mg. After 90 more mins....another 2mg. Now, what do I do if after my first Sub dose and I don't feel better....but worse? Do I have to wait 12 more hrs before I try another 2mg of Subs?

    2. Will cutting my opiate dose down the last 2-3 days before I start Subs help? Should I try taking just enough so that I don't get sick? I'm thinking that by doing this.....it will help with my induction by possibly having a cleaner system....less opiates on my receptors increasing the chance for the Subs to work? Just an idea....

    3. What can I possibly do more so that I don't go mad in the 24hrs I'm withdrawling? I vomit like crazy, I get chills, I can't sit still, it really is hell on earth. Curious if there are any new tricks I can use to help time move faster.

    Finally....I only use so that I don't get sick. I never used for rec purposes. I was wounded severely in the military, and the docs put me on massive amounts of pain meds. Had I known this would happen....I Never would have let them give me opiates. Opiates destroyed my life. I can't work, wife left, I'm a waste of space. I need to try and do this one more time. I just need to get passed the first phase and induce the Subs correctly. I can't walk well without pain meds.....but I don't care. I want to.... NEED to stop. When I was shot in the service, that bullet did far more than just break my spine, it took everything away from me.

    If anyone can possibly throw any advice my way....I Would very much appreciate it. I'm on Xanax for anxiety, currently 6mg ed. I was using hydromorphone....but am now using something else. Thank you....and thanks again to those who tried to help me last year. This is a new year resolution I guess. I need to do this....Ive Hit bottom. God Bless one and all.


    Z
    Here's a link to your thread that you started back in November of 2015 - https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...ase-70091.html

    Don't try to induct on subs in the way you have mentioned! Follow Robert's sub therapy/taper plan exactly as outlined! Use the COWS scale to score a 26 or higher before beginning the induction process! Here's a link to Robert's plan - https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    The following is copied from Robert's plan -
    "For those with a history of using RX pain medications be it in pill form, fentanyl patches, etc I suggest starting the induction with a dose of .5mg and wait for two hours. This allows the patient enough time to ensure they are receiving maximum benefit from the medication prior to taking each additional increment while stabilizing. After the first two hour period we can add another .5mg if needed but we often find that adding .25mg doses every additional 90 minutes or so will allow the patient to stabilize at doses less than 3mg. This has become the average with most everyone we induct using this protocol. We seldom find it necessary to induct ANYONE at more than 6mg, including those with long-term IV abuse histories. Subs are very powerful and effective when used properly. We have people who have inducted at less than 2mg and we are typically successful with inductions totaling 2-4mg. The people who do best historically are those who begin this therapy at the lowest effective dose. This can only be achieved with an induction process administering minimal amounts of medication at each increment."

    Best of luck to you. Keep us updated? God bless us all!
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  3. #3
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    1. After 24 hrs.....plan is to take 2mg, wait 45 mins to see if I feel better. If I do....take another 2mg. After 90 more mins....another 2mg. Now, what do I do if after my first Sub dose and I don't feel better....but worse? Do I have to wait 12 more hrs before I try another 2mg of Subs?

    3. What can I possibly do more so that I don't go mad in the 24hrs I'm withdrawling? I vomit like crazy, I get chills, I can't sit still, it really is hell on earth. Curious if there are any new tricks I can use to help time move faster.


    Hey Zorba -

    Click on the link for the sub plan that Ricky provided and read through the INDUCTION part carefully. All the horror stories concerning subs are because people do things their way and get in trouble immediately. Follow the protocol that has produced success stories out of thousands of people including myself. This plan works if you follow it closely.

    Don't use "TIME" as an indicator to induct. That sends more people into precipitated wd's than anything else. Some are ready after 12-24 hours and some are not. It varies as we're all different. Use the COWS to safely induct and avoid those PWD's. Here's the link to the Cows -
    https://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/defa...rawalScale.pdf

    You need to get to a score of 26 or higher before taking any sub. That insures you won't go into PWD's. Score yourself honestly too.

    And don't take 2mg as your initial dose. That's way too much. As Ricky also mentioned begin your induction with a .5mg dose and wait at least an hour. Sub works slower for some that it does others. So give it plenty of time to work for you. Then you'll want to take another .5mg dose and again wait at least an hour followed by .25mg doses every hour until you're stable with little to no wd symptoms.

    You should be stable on around 3-6mg of sub. Do this right the first time and you only need to do it once.

    Randy
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  4. #4
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Thank you....I will start with a lower dose. I was told to start higher because of how much I use.

    Would it be best for me to switch to a faster acting opiate (dilaudid) 24-36 hrs before I begin? I'm only thinking this might be a good move because I know how long the medication is effective in my system. My current medication is supposed to be fast acting.....but I heard it might not be all the time. I don't know. Is this a good idea?

    I really hope I can start this year off clean...thanks again. God Bless everyone.


    Z

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    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Switch to hydromorphone before I begin? Anyone? THANKS!

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    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    Thank you....I will start with a lower dose. I was told to start higher because of how much I use.

    Would it be best for me to switch to a faster acting opiate (dilaudid) 24-36 hrs before I begin? I'm only thinking this might be a good move because I know how long the medication is effective in my system. My current medication is supposed to be fast acting.....but I heard it might not be all the time. I don't know. Is this a good idea?

    I really hope I can start this year off clean...thanks again. God Bless everyone.


    Z
    What are you taking now?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-28-2016 at 12:26 AM.

  7. #7
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    What are you taking now?
    A slightly longer acting opiate....

  8. #8
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    I am now using dilaudid and am getting ready to try this again. I was thinking about it earlier today and the thoughts alone threw me into a severe panic attack. I honestly had nightmares of finding myself in PW again.

    I think I have all the info I need...I will go by the COWS sheet (like I did last time)....and I will wait it out even longer because last time I used the COWS sheet and waited longer than instructed....but I still ended up getting PW.

    I'm worried that it might not work right again. I'm hoping to God it will.....but just incase it does not, should I have extra opiates on hand in case I need to start over? If I do go into PW.....should I get back on my dilaudid or wait 12 hrs. and try the subs again at .5mg?

    I usually start getting sick/ill if I go longer than 8-10 hrs without anything. I'm trying to get some rest to prepare for the battle ahead.....but my mind won't let me sleep and I feel sick with fear. I guess I'm just venting/typing to try and feel better. Took my last dose at 11pm....I plan on trying to sleep for as long as I can than just battle when I awake and when the meds wear off....

    God Bless...


    Z

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    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    I am now using dilaudid and am getting ready to try this again. I was thinking about it earlier today and the thoughts alone threw me into a severe panic attack. I honestly had nightmares of finding myself in PW again.

    I think I have all the info I need...I will go by the COWS sheet (like I did last time)....and I will wait it out even longer because last time I used the COWS sheet and waited longer than instructed....but I still ended up getting PW.

    I'm worried that it might not work right again. I'm hoping to God it will.....but just incase it does not, should I have extra opiates on hand in case I need to start over? If I do go into PW.....should I get back on my dilaudid or wait 12 hrs. and try the subs again at .5mg?

    I usually start getting sick/ill if I go longer than 8-10 hrs without anything. I'm trying to get some rest to prepare for the battle ahead.....but my mind won't let me sleep and I feel sick with fear. I guess I'm just venting/typing to try and feel better. Took my last dose at 11pm....I plan on trying to sleep for as long as I can than just battle when I awake and when the meds wear off....

    God Bless...


    Z
    Just follow Robert's plan and what Randy said, you should do fine?

  10. #10
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Ok......thanks

    Aother than lope/imodium, are there any other OTC stuff I can use? I gave some magnesium and turmeric.....not sure if I got that stuff for last time. Anything else I should add? I'm trying to overhydrate.....if thats even possible, because I know I will be vomiting a great deal. Keeping my Xanax down i always hard....I read some medicinal marijuana helps? Some docs say yes.....some say no.

  11. #11
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    16 hrs......Im about out of gas...
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  12. #12
    CelestialKitten is offline New Member
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    I waited 48+ hours from my last dose of oxy to induct. Was able to induct at .5mgs which led to it being way easier to get off of the subs. I suggest waiting 48 if you can.

  13. #13
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    16 hrs......Im about out of gas...
    Hi Zorba,

    I just noticed that you are waiting to induct and I know that you're freaking out. First thing I want to say to you is to STOP all of your comfort meds. I know it sux. It will mess with your ability to score yourself accurately using the COWS sheet. Allow yourself to get to the worst of the symptoms so that you can safely begin to induct. Hide the clocks! Don't allow yourself to get trapped again by how long it's been since you last used. We know that time has absolutely nothing to do with when you'll be ready to safely induct.

    If you're already getting some severe withdrawal symptoms after 16 hours, you just might be one of those who won't take too too long to reach your score of 26. My symptoms never began to get bad until around the 36 hour mark. Everyone is so very different. Keep drinking plenty of water but STOP everything you've been taking to treat your symptoms. EVERYTHING! This is the time you want to feel the worst of it and you won't unless you let it happen. No Immodium, no benzo, no smoke. Nada. Be completely honest when scoring yourself and in fact, if I were you I'd be conservative. If you want to score yourself as a 6 on a symptom, give yourself a 4 or 5 instead. I know this is awful and that you're scared to death of PW. Be patient and get good and sick and you'll never have to do this again.

    Keep updating. I should be around and able to check in on you throughout the evening so let us know how you're doing. Now get up and put those comfort meds away for the time being. They are delaying your progress.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  14. #14
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Thank you for your post. Well....another fail. I passed 26 on the COWS and took .25mg. I couldn't tell if it worked.....I still had the wd symptoms. So I took another .25mg and I didn't feel better. I think I was putting myself into PWD again.

    I think I'm just unlucky and this doesn't work that well for me. After my first injury, I used subs with succes. The second time when I had 2 slugs in my back, I was on higher doses and it didn't work.

    I took 2mg total today....and I started to feel worse. I'm tired of this.....Im Going to admit myself to a detox clinic. I know someone who went and didn't have any wd issues and was out in 4 days. She was induced with 8mg though.

    As for the comfort meds.....I need to take my benzo....if I don't, I'll have a panic attack and find myself in the ER. I have been on benzos for over 25 years. Started with depression and compounded into PTSD as well.

    At this point, I need professional help. Thank you everyone....God Bless you all. I really hoped I could do this....I think my habit is bigger than most, perhaps that's why it's not working. It worked the first time when I was on 48mg of hydromorphone....I Taking more than that now. I have developed a very high tolerance. I hope these doctors at these clinics know what they are doing.

    I'm so upset with myself.....I wish I could turn back time and never have touched a pain killer. I was in a coma when they started.....ugh....

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    Becalm64 is offline New Member
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    Smile

    Dear Comrade...I just hated to read that your attempt to detox with the subs was so stressful and
    that somehow you feel like you failed. After many injuries myself over the years I too found myself on
    a high dose of 24mg.Elago ER and 20mg. of 4's of hydromorphones. I am just guessing that you are
    on a long acting form also. I was on Elago for 2 years after giving up on MS Contin for any pain relief.
    My point is that I feel that coming off something that is always in your system is harder. I am on just 4's
    now and was able to reduce my amount and save some for those times when I had a really painful day.
    I also take .5mg. of klonopin at night. My point is that I lost my doctor and now have to come off two drugs.
    I decided to come off the klonopin first as it takes the most time. Maybe what you might consider is to
    come off the xanax first before the dilaudid. At any rate I just wanted you to keep in touch here because
    I feel like I may learn from your experiences and I really care about you.

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    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Thank you, friend. I was waiting and waiting and trying to mentally prepare for this.....because my last attempt was sooooooooo horrific. And when I finally got the will power to do it.....another fail of epic proportions.

    I can't stop my benzos....I used to be on both 8mg of clonopin AND alprazolam...as well as 40mg of diazapam. Damn docs.....they just kept feeding me more and more until I no longer had more visits to the ER. I was on seroquil as well. I cut ALL of it on my own.....I can now get away with just 3mg of Xanax a day, but am more comfortable at 4-5mg. I'll be on a benzoyl for the rest of my life the docs say.

    As for my physical pain.....well, I decided to just bite the bullet and just live with it. But I am now trapped in a hole I can't get out of. I just need to get past the induction phase....and I'm all set. Today....my chest, ears, head.....EVERYTHING HURTS from the constant vomiting. I'm beat up bad. As soon as I get my strength back.....Im Going to rehab. I give up. As a soldier....I Never lost a battle in my life.....just this one. And this war of mine is far harder than any other war I have been in. I feel hopeless and am extremely depressed that I failed again.

    My friend who went to this rehab center said they induced her with 8mg....and was there for 4 days. After that, she tapered off the subs for a few weeks and claimed she didn't have any discomfort.

    I read about those facilities that induce sleep and you sleep through it all....some say it's not safe, but that's not an option anymore for me because prices start at $10k.

    My docs want to operate on my spine....and am thinking maybe they can detox me while I'm under? However.... I don't really want to do the surgery as there is a small risk of paralysis. Ugh....

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    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Hey all. Been thinking long and hard about a rehab program. Tell me....is there something more they can do for me in there that I can't do myself? I mean.....what will they do differently?

    I almost got my strength back from the other day. My body is still hurting and am still rather weak. Should I try this again on my own? I'm not sure what to do to be honest. I have a box of Subs. But if rehab can make the withdrawal process easier....I'll do it. I was hoping to avoid going.....I just keep failing on my own. Any suggestions? Thank you...

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    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey DancingZorba, have been reading your thread, but have no experience with Subs, just Oxy and other opiates so have been letting the more experienced members share since they know what they're talking about. Just saw your post asking about rehab programs/facilities so thought I'd share my experience with that. Years ago, when I had to get off the alcohol and junk I threw a lifetime away to, I went through a rehab program that did work for me for a while, but was a horrible experience.

    I too have taken benzos, sedatives and anti-depressants most of my life, far longer than anything else I've been on, and at the place I went to they basically sedated me out of my mind for a period, then tapered me off that stuff a bit and did a type of behavioral therapy. I was kept on a lot of the benzos etc. that I was already on however, and put on some pretty crazy, heavy, anti-depressants etc. I was in a lot of groups, with a lot of other people that didn't seem to want to be there, and was a very depressing experience for me. I was also crammed in a little room with a roommate who was even more deranged than me (and that's saying a lot...lol) and was often times literally scared. I've been in a couple short-term 4th floor situations in hospitals (psych wards) over the years, and that rehab experience was worse than any of those times, at least for me.

    It wasn't a facility I had to pay for, was a program that my insurance covered through a hospital that was in a different state I was living in, so don't know what other rehab facilities might be like. It did get me clean, and I was able to stay clean for a little over 3 years until a bad accident put me in the hospital, and I was put on extremely high doses of almost the same junk I was on before. All that work of being clean went out the window, I had no coping skills to use for the meds I was on, and went right back into a really dark place. Over the years I tapered down, then found this forum about a year ago and started reading. Finally after a year of reading and tapering even more I built up the courage and made the jump a little over 7 weeks ago from a fair amount of Oxy.

    This time, I used this forum, listened to the people that have been posting in your thread, and others in these forums, and have been going to a lot of NA and AA meetings, something I had never done before. Just in the time since I've made the jump I've learned more coping skills doing all this than I ever learned in that other program. I know a lot of people are successful with the rehab programs they go to, in fact a friend of mine on here has had a great experience where she went, but that wasn't my experience at all. Going cold turkey and a couple rough weeks to get everything out of my system, has been better for me than that program/facility ever was. I won't lie, it wasn't easy to get through the worst of it, but coming out the other side was more than worth it.

    Hopefully others who have had better experiences with better facilities/programs will share with you, and I'm sure any place that you have to pay for out of pocket would be far better than an insurance covered facility run by a hospital etc. so may be a good route to go. Just wanted to share my experience with you so you can see a different aspect as well.

    Thank you for your service, and I wish you nothing but the very best, regardless of what you decide to do!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-07-2017 at 11:21 PM.

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    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Thank you, sir. My problem is really just making the switch to subs from my pain meds. I did it once before.....I only started using again because I had a nasty fall down a flight of stairs that broke my arm and messed my back up even more. And at the time.....I had just lost my wife so my head was all messed up....more than usual as I suffer from depression and PTSD.

    My friend who went to this facility said she was in and out in 4 days and the detox was a walk in the park for her. I'm 100% confident that once I can get passed the first stage.....Ill be all good. I'll have to be because I'm moving to another country that is more or less opiate free. I'm curious though.....what more can they do for me in the facility to make my detox more comfortable? Any ideas? Thanks!
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    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Can someone please tell me where to find out more info about what a rehab facility can do for me? I can't seem to induce on my own.....I messed up twice. I CAN'T fail again....

    Thanks everyone....



    Z

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    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Nobody? Anybody?

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    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    Sorry DZ, not even sure where you're located or why you think some non expert "experts" can help you? But we all support you here. Great that you're fighting the good fight. If you have good insurance and think that's the way to go for you then great. Hopefully someone will know a facility that knows what it's doing re induction. We all generally follow what's here and it's worked for many (not me tho sadly, but that's on my own thread

    Hang in there and someone with some better experience will advise soon. We hear you.
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  23. #23
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    I just failed my last 2X trying to induce. I followed all the instructions I was told to. I don't know what more to do. Every time I try....I need almost 2 weeks to recover and to get my strength back again. Now that I am energized....I'm thinking maybe to go to a facility to help me induce. But if these facilities are not going to do anything more for me than what I can do for myself at home....I'll just try AGAIN here on my own.

    I was hoping that at these rehab facilities, they might be able to feed me things via IV to help control the nasty side effects of WD? What hits me the hardest is the non stop vomiting that rips my insides out and the feeling on not being able to sit still. It's enough to drive me mad. But the vomiting is non stop and I got so winded a few times I nearly fainted and blacked out.

    I am trying to find out what more can a facility can do to further help me....but I am having trouble finding anything. I am going to start calling a few places up. I'm just trying to explore all my options. I was able to do this on my own the very first time....but now that my habit has gotten a lot heavier, I'm not having the same luck. I feel trapped....in a hole....and not sure what to do. My life is passing by and I am stuck in this nightmare and desperately need to awake from it. I'm even considering serving again....but no way can I do so in such a condition.

    If anyone has any suggestions for me....please let me know. Please.

    God Bless


    Z

  24. #24
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    I just failed my last 2X trying to induce. I followed all the instructions I was told to. I don't know what more to do. Every time I try....I need almost 2 weeks to recover and to get my strength back again. Now that I am energized....I'm thinking maybe to go to a facility to help me induce. But if these facilities are not going to do anything more for me than what I can do for myself at home....I'll just try AGAIN here on my own.

    I was hoping that at these rehab facilities, they might be able to feed me things via IV to help control the nasty side effects of WD? What hits me the hardest is the non stop vomiting that rips my insides out and the feeling on not being able to sit still. It's enough to drive me mad. But the vomiting is non stop and I got so winded a few times I nearly fainted and blacked out.

    I am trying to find out what more can a facility can do to further help me....but I am having trouble finding anything. I am going to start calling a few places up. I'm just trying to explore all my options. I was able to do this on my own the very first time....but now that my habit has gotten a lot heavier, I'm not having the same luck. I feel trapped....in a hole....and not sure what to do. My life is passing by and I am stuck in this nightmare and desperately need to awake from it. I'm even considering serving again....but no way can I do so in such a condition.

    If anyone has any suggestions for me....please let me know. Please.

    God Bless


    Z
    Z - I have no personal experience or information regarding detox facilities but I have read of people spending upwards of $15,000 for "rapid detox" and they have had horrible experiences with the process in addition to the detox itself being unsuccessful long-term!

    You said you dosed .25mg then another .25mg for a total of 2mgs? You should of started the induction with a .5mg dose then waited 2 hours to give the sub enough time to work then if not feeling better follow up with .25mg doses every 90 minutes until you feel stable with very little to no withdrawals! As you can see, the induction process takes a while.

    This is copied directly from Roberts plan -
    "For those with a history of using RX pain medications be it in pill form, fentanyl patches, etc I suggest starting the induction with a dose of .5mg and wait for two hours. This allows the patient enough time to ensure they are receiving maximum benefit from the medication prior to taking each additional increment while stabilizing. After the first two hour period we can add another .5mg if needed but we often find that adding .25mg doses every additional 90 minutes or so will allow the patient to stabilize at doses less than 3mg. This has become the average with most everyone we induct using this protocol."

    Let us know besides the Xanax if you were taking any other comfort meds like the lope/Imodium, medical marijuana, etc... that you had inquired about?

    If you can give us as much info as possible regarding your last try at the sub reduction? How long was it from your last opiate dose until you scored 26 on the COWS worksheet? How long did you wait between doses of sub during your induction? Do you have sub tabs or film?

    If you wanna try the sub route again we are more than willing to help you as much as we possible can? Let us know? Take care... God bless us all!
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  25. #25
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Spoke to someone on the phone at the rehab facility. I asked if there is anything different they can do for me to make me more comfortable during the 24 hour wait....and he said "not that he was aware of".

    He said they cut you cold turkey, than 24 hrs. later give you subs. My friend said they gave her 2mg as soon as she arrived, than 2 more, and 2 again. 8mg total on day one and was there for 4 days.

    How can I push past 16 hours? There must be something to help me out with the violent vomiting? I was able to the first time?

    The man on the phone said to try and taper/drop to the lowest dose possible and try again. I'm really living a nightmare....I blame myself, but at the same time....my docs should have better warned me of the end of the rainbow.

    I don't know if I can do this.....might need to be tied up and have someone knock me out unconscious. Seriously...Im really scared to death at this point!

  26. #26
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Let us know besides the Xanax if you were taking any other comfort meds like the lope/Imodium, medical marijuana, etc... that you had inquired about?

    If you can give us as much info as possible regarding your last try at the sub reduction? How long was it from your last opiate dose until you scored 26 on the COWS worksheet? How long did you wait between doses of sub during your induction? Do you have sub tabs or film?

    If you wanna try the sub route again we are more than willing to help you as much as we possible can? Let us know? Take care... God bless us all!
    I only took my Xanax, and half my normal dose at that. I really became very faint and thought I was going to pass out from the extremely excessive vomiting. I nearly called 911. When I took my last dose of sub (film) and waited another hour with no improvement.....I tossed in the towel and gave up.

    Don't take this the wrong way, I would NEVER NEVER.......but I see how some turn to suicide from this. Dear Lord!! Truly hell on earth. I guess I am going to have to try again....


    Z
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  27. #27
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DancingZorba View Post
    I only took my Xanax, and half my normal dose at that. I really became very faint and thought I was going to pass out from the extremely excessive vomiting. I nearly called 911. When I took my last dose of sub (film) and waited another hour with no improvement.....I tossed in the towel and gave up.

    Don't take this the wrong way, I would NEVER NEVER.......but I see how some turn to suicide from this. Dear Lord!! Truly hell on earth. I guess I am going to have to try again....


    Z
    How many doses did you take during your last sub induction, I'm assuming 8 doses of .25mg to equal 2mg total? You waited at least an hour between each dose? Please give us an exact timeline of your induction doses? From your first dose all the way up to the total of 2mg? How many milligrams for each dose, how long between each dose, etc...? Update when you can?

  28. #28
    DancingZorba is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    How many doses did you take during your last sub induction, I'm assuming 8 doses of .25mg to equal 2mg total? You waited at least an hour between each dose? Please give us an exact timeline of your induction doses? From your first dose all the way up to the total of 2mg? How many milligrams for each dose, how long between each dose, etc...? Update when you can?
    Hi Ricky,

    I had posted a short while ago here but my post vanished for some reason, I think I am having issues with my mobile app. If this appears two times, please forgive me. To answer your question, the last time I tried I followed the instructions I was provided by Robert. The very first time I tried, it worked...and in a few days time. I was a normal human being again. However the last two times I felt death had it's grip around me.

    Robert said that if I happen to go into PWD, that I should more or less start over. He said, "If a patient finds themselves in precipitated w/d, the best thing to do is stop taking the subs immediately and redo the induction as outlined above. Wait until the sickness from precipitated w/d has ended and make sure you have reached the 26 again on the COWS worksheet before taking anything else. DO NOT attempt to take additional subs to cover up the precipitated w/d. You are asking for a hospital stay should you pursue this course of action."

    However, I read something that contradicts this. I made a thread as to not to confuse anyone, but I think it has to get approved for some reason before it posts. I read this....

    ]If you feel more withdrawal after taking the buprenorphine than before, then you are experiencing precipitate withdrawal. To fix it you take more buprenorphine. This might seem strange to some people because if some buprenorphine causes withdrawal won't more cause more withdrawal? No. Remember, the cause of the withdrawal is not enough opioid effect, and buprenorphine causes opioid effect, so taking more will eventually breach the threshold of withdrawal and suppress symptoms. Follow the same procedure and increase by 2mgs. every 30 minutes.

    I tried contacting some of these local clinics to get a direct answer from them, and they told me they could not answer my question. The last two attempts, I believe I put myself into PWD.

    There has to be something that can help me with the violent vomiting....I vomit so bad, that my body wears out. Last time, I lost almost 10 lbs. from vomiting. I couldn't keep anything down (water, gatorade). I don't know what more a rehab facility can do for me. I am willing to go for professional help since I failed my last two attempts, but I really want to know if there is something more that can be done to help me go longer before inducing. I get to a 26 REAL fast....the only thing that I don't really get is my pupils dialating. Maybe that's because of my alprazolam? I'm so lost....I think I can try this one last time...I wish I knew what to do...



    DZ
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  29. #29
    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    Will they let you induct at an Urgent Care? Do you need to induct or can you go CT if the subs don't seem to agree with you? (I went through the horrific stomach pain and vomiting to point of ER myself DZ so I feel your pain, it really is awful to get to that point).

  30. #30
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey DZ
    I inducted at a local hospital on my second attempt. I recommend it!

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