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Advice, support, and anything in between for long term subutex use, ready to quit!
  1. #1
    LisaRee is offline New Member
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    Default Advice, support, and anything in between for long term subutex use, ready to quit!

    Hello All!!! First off, it's crazy that I am actually participating with my own thread! For most of the 7 years I've been an addict, I've read this site, but today I became a member. So, before I begin on my story, if I posted this in the wrong place, I am really sorry, I'm still trying to learn how to use it and navigate through it correctly. So here it goes. I'm 28 years old, and my addiction to pain medication started on my 21st birthday. But not intentionally. I actually spent my 21st birthday at the doctors office because of horrendous back pain, and it's all down hill from there. I am a mother, and girlfriend to my children's father, I stay at home and I have my spouses full support. That being said, I left my 200-300 a day oxy habit (and I'm 5'4 and 110 lbs) in April 2014 and moved away from the place I had formed such a nasty habit, and moved a state over and started seeing a suboxone doctor. I was originally given 8 mg suboxone tablets 3 times a day. So 24 mgs daily. I was not at all informed, on the fact that less is more, and long term was not the way to go, although the doctor I see thinks suboxone is ok to take forever if it means I'm not using on the streets, obtaining illegal drugs, and let's be honest, if it means he will receive the 400 dollars from me each month. Fast forward to now, and I'm taking 16 mgs a day, some days less, and at all different hours of the day, whenever I feel like I need to dose again. A few things I must note is that I am beyond ready to be clean. And I have joined this forum for the incredible people who are members here. I know all about the half life of bupe, and I also know many people (my Dr included) who believe it's impossible to feel any withdrawal symptoms for 36 hours (give or take some hours depending on who you ask) but this is not the case for me. I always take my morning dose as soon as I wake up in the mornings and if I don't take that second dose, by 10pm I'm starting to feel withdrawal, sooner at times. The crazy thing for me is, I agree that our minds have a lot to do with that, but I'll start feeling the withdrawal symptoms, and that's what will make me realize I forgot my evening dose. So my symptoms begin before I even realize that I haven't dosed for it to be all in my head. I have done so much research and read so many peoples stories and I have yet to find someone who metabolizes their buprenorphine as fast as I seem to. Also, I must also admit, I am no longer on suboxone, because in March of this year, I gave birth to my beautiful daughter, and when I found out I was pregnant, my doctor told me I have to switch to subutex (just buprenorphine generic) because Naloxone isn't good for the baby. I wanted to quit cold turkey, but he told me that I would probably lose the baby. So I had my baby while taking subutex the whole time. By the grace of god, she came out healthy and amazing, and she didn't withdrawal at all, even though the hospital kept her longer than normal to watch her. Anyways, I'm ready to be free
    I'm ready to have a sex drive, happiness, pure emotions instead of foggy numb ones, and frankly, I want to remember what I did last week, or ate for dinner 2 nights ago, because my memory is gone because of this drug. I am aware of Robert 325's taper plan, and am also saddened that he is no longer apart of this forum. But I have read that there are plenty of other wonderful and knowledgeable people here, and I'm so happy to have finally joined. So I guess my question is, will anybody help me through this taper off 16 mgs? I'd be forever indebted to anyone willing to read this story, and to offer advice and support to me through it. I specifically joined so that I could document my entire journey of tapering after long term, use on way to high of a dose. Thank you to anyone who finds their selves reading all this. I'm sorry if I'm rambling and didn't make sense muchave, because I tried to cram too much into this one post to introduce myself.

  2. #2
    LisaRee is offline New Member
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    Also, if anyone could start off by telling me all the supplements, any medications, and any other things I will need that would be great. I know all about the exercise, and that I need L-Tyrosine and B-6 but I think I'll need other things too. If anyone can shed some light on this I would be grateful, as I'm trying to get everything I need to get this going and be prepared. Thank you all again. Even if I don't get any replies, I thank you even if you took the time to just read it!!! This time thing on here is way off from mine, as it's 12:56 am as I type this and the time stamp is 2 hours ahead I noticed. So I don't know if anyone else is up, but I'm a night owl so it's not anything new to me to be up right now. Lol

  3. #3
    LisaRee is offline New Member
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    Hmm... I guess no one has any advice, or even comments for me. I thought people replied fairly quickly to other posts on here, I hope I didn't say anything that made me look unworthy of anyone's advice, or support, or even a good luck.

  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Lisa -

    Sorry about the lack of responses. People get busy especially with the Holiday looming tomorrow. People are traveling and busy with preparations for tomorrow.

    Lets get right to it. Sixteen (16mgs) of sub is way, way too much. There's no one that actually requires that much subs. It's complete overkill to the extreme. If you believe you need that much it's all in your head. It's just a cold hard fact. Even the most hard core addicts with an unbelievable tolerance won't ever need that much sub. You need to get that dose down now. The lower the dose the better you'll feel.

    Subs have a half life between 24 and 72 hours. A single dose will last at least 24 hours, even with an extremely fast metabilism. If you believe you feel wd symptoms in the afternoon after taking your morning dose that's all mental too. Just your head messing with you. Promise you I'm right. You have a massive amount of sub built up in your system. As addicts we get use to taking somehting many times a day. We have habits taking something. When we aren't taking stuff out heads get in the way and throw us off guard.

    Ok, so what I suggest you do is to immediately reduce your dose down to 8mg total per day beginning tomorrow. Split it and take 4mg in the am and 4 mg later about 8-10 hours apart. And please don't take the sub on an "as needed" basis. You need to take the doses at the same times everyday. That keeps a steady and level amount of sub in your system. That way when we make changes or you redcue the dose you'll always feel your best.

    After reducing to 8mgs per day spend around 4-5 days on that dose then reduce by 25% down to a total of 6mg per day. Take 3mg am and 3mg in the pm. Keep repeating that protocol until you've reduced all the way down to at least .25mg per day. Once your dose is down to around 4mg you'll be in good shape. Most feel awesome on around 2-3 mg. You have to get some of that sub out now before it gets completely out of hand. You'll discover that once you're on 1-2mg per day it will feel exactly the same as 8-16mg per day does. It's crazy how strong sub is.

    Let me know what you think. I'll help you all the way if you'll follow a few suggestions. I've been down this road and know what to expect. Trust me and I'll get you off the subs.

    Randy

  5. #5
    Anonymous Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaRee View Post
    Hello All!!! First off, it's crazy that I am actually participating with my own thread! For most of the 7 years I've been an addict, I've read this site, but today I became a member. So, before I begin on my story, if I posted this in the wrong place, I am really sorry, I'm still trying to learn how to use it and navigate through it correctly. So here it goes. I'm 28 years old, and my addiction to pain medication started on my 21st birthday. But not intentionally. I actually spent my 21st birthday at the doctors office because of horrendous back pain, and it's all down hill from there. I am a mother, and girlfriend to my children's father, I stay at home and I have my spouses full support. That being said, I left my 200-300 a day oxy habit (and I'm 5'4 and 110 lbs) in April 2014 and moved away from the place I had formed such a nasty habit, and moved a state over and started seeing a suboxone doctor. I was originally given 8 mg suboxone tablets 3 times a day. So 24 mgs daily. I was not at all informed, on the fact that less is more, and long term was not the way to go, although the doctor I see thinks suboxone is ok to take forever if it means I'm not using on the streets, obtaining illegal drugs, and let's be honest, if it means he will receive the 400 dollars from me each month. Fast forward to now, and I'm taking 16 mgs a day, some days less, and at all different hours of the day, whenever I feel like I need to dose again. A few things I must note is that I am beyond ready to be clean. And I have joined this forum for the incredible people who are members here. I know all about the half life of bupe, and I also know many people (my Dr included) who believe it's impossible to feel any withdrawal symptoms for 36 hours (give or take some hours depending on who you ask) but this is not the case for me. I always take my morning dose as soon as I wake up in the mornings and if I don't take that second dose, by 10pm I'm starting to feel withdrawal, sooner at times. The crazy thing for me is, I agree that our minds have a lot to do with that, but I'll start feeling the withdrawal symptoms, and that's what will make me realize I forgot my evening dose. So my symptoms begin before I even realize that I haven't dosed for it to be all in my head. I have done so much research and read so many peoples stories and I have yet to find someone who metabolizes their buprenorphine as fast as I seem to. Also, I must also admit, I am no longer on suboxone, because in March of this year, I gave birth to my beautiful daughter, and when I found out I was pregnant, my doctor told me I have to switch to subutex (just buprenorphine generic) because Naloxone isn't good for the baby. I wanted to quit cold turkey, but he told me that I would probably lose the baby. So I had my baby while taking subutex the whole time. By the grace of god, she came out healthy and amazing, and she didn't withdrawal at all, even though the hospital kept her longer than normal to watch her. Anyways, I'm ready to be free
    I'm ready to have a sex drive, happiness, pure emotions instead of foggy numb ones, and frankly, I want to remember what I did last week, or ate for dinner 2 nights ago, because my memory is gone because of this drug. I am aware of Robert 325's taper plan, and am also saddened that he is no longer apart of this forum. But I have read that there are plenty of other wonderful and knowledgeable people here, and I'm so happy to have finally joined. So I guess my question is, will anybody help me through this taper off 16 mgs? I'd be forever indebted to anyone willing to read this story, and to offer advice and support to me through it. I specifically joined so that I could document my entire journey of tapering after long term, use on way to high of a dose. Thank you to anyone who finds their selves reading all this. I'm sorry if I'm rambling and didn't make sense muchave, because I tried to cram too much into this one post to introduce myself.
    I answered your question on my post and I just read this and I can't believe your body holds that much oxy or sub at your size.. I'm 5'11 145 now, ( I'm convinced weed makes me skinny, so I'm done with that as well) but in the middle of pills/subs I was 15-30 lbs heavier depending on the year and 16mg of subs almost caused me to burn my house down numerous times from nodding with lit cigs. Coming off that dose isn't gonna be easy but if you're ready ( which it sounds like you are) then you got this for sure. Randy's advice on the taper is probably the way to go since he has more experience at this than I do. Like I said earlier, I went from 8mg to slivers but I don't have children to take care of, so I'm not gonna pretend that that is feasible for you bc we both know it isn't. You can do this Lisa, just take it slow and think of the light at the end of the tunnel.

  6. #6
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hi Lisa -

    Sorry about the lack of responses. People get busy especially with the Holiday looming tomorrow. People are traveling and busy with preparations for tomorrow.

    Lets get right to it. Sixteen (16mgs) of sub is way, way too much. There's no one that actually requires that much subs. It's complete overkill to the extreme. If you believe you need that much it's all in your head. It's just a cold hard fact. Even the most hard core addicts with an unbelievable tolerance won't ever need that much sub. You need to get that dose down now. The lower the dose the better you'll feel.

    Subs have a half life between 24 and 72 hours. A single dose will last at least 24 hours, even with an extremely fast metabilism. If you believe you feel wd symptoms in the afternoon after taking your morning dose that's all mental too. Just your head messing with you. Promise you I'm right. You have a massive amount of sub built up in your system. As addicts we get use to taking somehting many times a day. We have habits taking something. When we aren't taking stuff out heads get in the way and throw us off guard.

    Ok, so what I suggest you do is to immediately reduce your dose down to 8mg total per day beginning tomorrow. Split it and take 4mg in the am and 4 mg later about 8-10 hours apart. And please don't take the sub on an "as needed" basis. You need to take the doses at the same times everyday. That keeps a steady and level amount of sub in your system. That way when we make changes or you redcue the dose you'll always feel your best.

    After reducing to 8mgs per day spend around 4-5 days on that dose then reduce by 25% down to a total of 6mg per day. Take 3mg am and 3mg in the pm. Keep repeating that protocol until you've reduced all the way down to at least .25mg per day. Once your dose is down to around 4mg you'll be in good shape. Most feel awesome on around 2-3 mg. You have to get some of that sub out now before it gets completely out of hand. You'll discover that once you're on 1-2mg per day it will feel exactly the same as 8-16mg per day does. It's crazy how strong sub is.

    Let me know what you think. I'll help you all the way if you'll follow a few suggestions. I've been down this road and know what to expect. Trust me and I'll get you off the subs.

    Randy
    Randy is 100% correct, follow his advice, he will not steer you wrong!
    DravenDomnq and UncleLeo like this.

  7. #7
    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    Hi, welcome. I'm sitting here trying to stave of my mild symptoms of w/d. To keep from repeating my whole 3 year long thread, I'll just say we have been thru a lot of the same experiences with this, including having a baby while on sub (my daughter turned 5 two days ago, she is awesome!).

    Something you can do right now that won't make you withdraw is just cut 2 mg off your dose. It could probably be the evening dose since sometimes you don't remember to take it. It's an easy way to start cutting down, and I promise you won't feel the missing 2 mg. I will write more later but hang in there and I hope you have a good thanksgiving

  8. #8
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Just saw you post in another forum last night when I got home, and finally got some more sleep so was able to find and subscribe to your thread. I'm just a little over 2 weeks clean from an extremely heavy Oxy taper over 4 years and finally making the jump. One thing from your other post that really stood out to me was the mental aspect. One thing I'm finding that's really helping me, and will hopefully help keep away the PAWS is to build a different routing in my day every time I would have taken a pill and stick to it. Fight to do that routine every single day. When I would have taken my first pill I take all my vitamins/supplements from the Thomas Recipe thread. (If you haven't read through that I'd highly recommend it. I found it when I was in a really dark place from a taper withdrawal, and read the entire thread over the course of a year which that, and then reading some other peoples stories, finally gave me the courage to make the jump.) When I would have taken my second pill I take a hot bath/shower instead, 3rd pill walk one of our dogs etc. Just after 2 weeks I'm seeing a huge difference from changing my thinking, and hope that continues. Regardless, wishing you nothing but the best, and know that you, or anyone, is always welcome to reach out if you need to!!
    Catrina likes this.

  9. #9
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DravenDomnq View Post
    Just saw you post in another forum last night when I got home, and finally got some more sleep so was able to find and subscribe to your thread. I'm just a little over 2 weeks clean from an extremely heavy Oxy taper over 4 years and finally making the jump. One thing from your other post that really stood out to me was the mental aspect. One thing I'm finding that's really helping me, and will hopefully help keep away the PAWS is to build a different routing in my day every time I would have taken a pill and stick to it. Fight to do that routine every single day. When I would have taken my first pill I take all my vitamins/supplements from the Thomas Recipe thread. (If you haven't read through that I'd highly recommend it. I found it when I was in a really dark place from a taper withdrawal, and read the entire thread over the course of a year which that, and then reading some other peoples stories, finally gave me the courage to make the jump.) When I would have taken my second pill I take a hot bath/shower instead, 3rd pill walk one of our dogs etc. Just after 2 weeks I'm seeing a huge difference from changing my thinking, and hope that continues. Regardless, wishing you nothing but the best, and know that you, or anyone, is always welcome to reach out if you need to!!
    Really good advice, Draven. They call this a habit for a reason and one of the best things anyone can do is to begin to create new healthy habits. I often tell people the day that I caught myself reaching for my bottle of Aleve for absolutely no reason at all except that I wanted/needed to take something. Anything. It was a wake up call for me and realized that swallowing some pills was all a part of my habit. Fortunately, once I recognized that it wasn't difficult to stop. Point well made, Draven so thanks for posting this.

    Peace,

    Cat
    DravenDomnq likes this.

  10. #10
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Well and for me it's not just the pills. Somebody else mentioned to me in my thread about the "fight or flight response" and how I've never really fought for anything. When I get backed up against a wall I don't want to fight, I want to fly to alcohol or drugs. When I woke up yesterday and today, when the chills started to set in, I didn't think about reaching for the pills, I thought about reaching for the bottle, which is what started my downfall, the career and family I already threw away and how when it wasn't enough I looked for something else. So I'm fighting my own mind right now, and my own mind is my own worst enemy. Just have to fight every single second of every single day so I can have another day!!!

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