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Afraid to start taper without more info
  1. #1
    StrengthInNumbers is offline New Member
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    Default Afraid to start taper without more info

    I've been a member of NA for six years, I've sponsored people and have an amazing sponsor myself...my area of Na has never agreed with drug replacement but always considered me clean... I need to be off the strips once and for all and I've been attempting to use the Thomas Recipe but not sure I can do this. I kicked oxy and >>>>>> six years ago using this method but I know sub withdrawal lasts longer and I'm not sure when to start the recipe or how to taper. I know the four day 25% rule of thumb but should I wait until actual wd sets in before I start with the taper or recipe?... I've never told anyone this, but I inject it. About 4mgs a day. I've been reading here since 2009 and saw all the help Melinda and Robert gave people and I helped talk so many like us off the ledge but now I need that help. I've fought so hard for this new life and this is my last secret I need to put to bed for good. Any help or ideas about how to start the taper what I should do first would be greatly appreciated. I inject 2mgs twice a day and I have one strip left but I can get more if one strip isn't enough to taper off... I'm horrified of the long wds from sub, heard they are far worse than Ox and H :/ thanks so much for even reading and reaching out.

  2. #2
    Mommy222Be is offline New Member
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    Hey StrengthinNumbers!
    Congratulations on getting to the point that you've had ENOUGH! I have also been a slave to this substance for over 3 years! At the beginning I was on upwards of 16 mg. I cut back drastically over the years but started to taper about a year ago (which honestly is unnecessarily long). I am on day two of .125 mg! In a few days I should feel stable enough to either skip days or jump altogether, we will see how I feel! In response to your question, you do not need to wait to feel withdrawals before starting your taper. Those directions are only for people that are first inducting. When I was on 4 mg my next step was reducing to 3 mg. (25% drop). If you feel fine after a few days, reduce to 2 mg. Technically that is a 33% drop but my experience is that the 25% rule is moreso important when you get below 1 or 2 mg.
    Also, if I'm not mistaken the Thomas recipe is more for after you've jumped to aid with any withdrawals. If you follow Robert's plan you will have little to no withdrawal so you wont need it, probably until you jump, if even then.
    Good luck to you!!
    Ashley
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  3. #3
    StrengthInNumbers is offline New Member
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    Ashley,
    Thank you so so much for getting back to me and for your encouragement. I can't tell you how impressed I am that you are down to such a low dosage. Congratulations! Thank you for the info, I thought I'd need the Thomas Recipe Bc I was under the impression that I'd be feeling wds as I tapered down - glad to know that's not the case! Will I need more than one strip to get off these completely?thanks again!

    Lily

  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrengthInNumbers View Post
    I've been a member of NA for six years, I've sponsored people and have an amazing sponsor myself...my area of Na has never agreed with drug replacement but always considered me clean... I need to be off the strips once and for all and I've been attempting to use the Thomas Recipe but not sure I can do this. I kicked oxy and >>>>>> six years ago using this method but I know sub withdrawal lasts longer and I'm not sure when to start the recipe or how to taper. I know the four day 25% rule of thumb but should I wait until actual wd sets in before I start with the taper or recipe?... I've never told anyone this, but I inject it. About 4mgs a day. I've been reading here since 2009 and saw all the help Melinda and Robert gave people and I helped talk so many like us off the ledge but now I need that help. I've fought so hard for this new life and this is my last secret I need to put to bed for good. Any help or ideas about how to start the taper what I should do first would be greatly appreciated. I inject 2mgs twice a day and I have one strip left but I can get more if one strip isn't enough to taper off... I'm horrified of the long wds from sub, heard they are far worse than Ox and H :/ thanks so much for even reading and reaching out.

    Welcome to the forum. Glad you have joined after reading for so long. Sadly, Robert325 has passed, but I can just about guarantee the first thing he would have said to you is to please stop injecting the subs. Use the subs correctly by placing them under your tongue. Need to get away from that pure addict behavior of injecting. You know this right? Take the same amount of subs at the same time(s) each day, sublingually. Need to have a steady amount in your system. That's where you start.

    You say you're injecting "about" 4mgs a day? Try taking 4mgs sublingually a day and stay on that dose another 3-4 days. You were injecting twice so split the 4mgs and take 2mg in the am and 2mg in the pm 8-10 hours apart. Then you begin reducing your dose by 25% every 4 or so days. You never reduce if you aren't stable, which means little or no wd's. If you're stable on the 4th day then reduce by 25% on the 5th. If you're not stable on the 4th day then spend another day or two on that dose before reducing.

    As you reduce your doses it's common to feel some discomfort the first day or two as your body gets acclimated to the new dose. By the 3rd or 4th day you should be feeling quite well. If not wait longer before reducing. It's never a race so take it slow and steady, especially when your dose gets very low, around 1mg and lower. Your body will always let you know ehen the time is right to reduce. Just follow the sub plan and you'll do fine. Once your dose gets down to 1mg you should begin dosing just once a day. The long half life will hold you 24 hours and you need to get your mind prepared to be off the sub soon. Dosing once helps do that.

    The Thomas Recipe is actually intended for full agonist opiate detox, not subs. But theres plenty of vitamins and supplements in the recipe than can ceretainly help you feel better as you taper the subs. You can take the recipe anytime you feel like it. One thing the recipe suggest is the use of a benzo and I really don't like that part of it. Benzo's are highly addicitve even when taken in low doses for short periods of time. Unless you're already taking a benzo under doctors oreders I would leave that out. If you have to use a benzo use it sparingly and be extra careful.

    Hope this helps. We're here for you.

    Ask all the questions you have. Post often as that helps too.

    Randy
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  5. #5
    Mommy222Be is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrengthInNumbers View Post
    Ashley,
    Thank you so so much for getting back to me and for your encouragement. I can't tell you how impressed I am that you are down to such a low dosage. Congratulations! Thank you for the info, I thought I'd need the Thomas Recipe Bc I was under the impression that I'd be feeling wds as I tapered down - glad to know that's not the case! Will I need more than one strip to get off these completely?thanks again!

    Lily
    Thank you! I'm feeling pretty good!!
    I tried to post again to answer your question about how many more strips you would need but it looks like the admin didn't approve it because it contained an external link I guess. If you search "help me get off drugs suboxone taper" it should take you right to the website I was trying to link that is super informative about how suboxone affects your receptors and specifically why the 25% thing works. But I put in your current 4mg dose for you and to complete the taper they use, it would take 43 more mg.. you may need more days to stabilize at a given dose though so you may need more. It's a pretty good taper plan though it's been helpful for me!
    Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any more questions!
    Ashley
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-21-2017 at 10:25 PM.

  6. #6
    StrengthInNumbers is offline New Member
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    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for taking the time to reply and you are so VERY right... as I said before I have been a member of my local area NA for years but the reason I stopped sponsoring girls is Bc I was injecting my strips and I know it's addict behavior and a huge red flag and there's no excuse. So I sent all of the girls to other members and came clean to my sponsor.
    The brutal truth is that my script was so expensive that I started trying to taper myself to make them stretch longer. When I told my doctor he made an offhand comment (NOT A SUGGESTION) about how he understood and that he had a patient inject them before Bc they could take smaller amounts due to the bioavailability of intravenous 95% >> sublingually 60%...
    Sadly, he had no idea that he was saying this in front of a former h user that had just as big of an addiction to the needle as the substance. He had no clue that he had implanted an idea in my head that I would take and run with and justify by telling myself that I was getting more medicine for less.
    You would think with my amount of clean time and experience that I would've recognized my own lie but it took months and step work for me to start to acknowledge the denial and hate myself.
    Telling my sponsor and getting rid of my sponsees was my first step, coming here after years of anonymous reading and finally posting was my second step. Thank you for calling me on my b.s. and for being kind and honest at the same time. I am eternally grateful and indebted to your thoughtfulness.
    I've been taking 2mgs twice a day sublingually but I noticed I'm shaky and sweaty and exhausted... is this Bc I'm only getting 60% this route? Do you think I should take more? I know you said that my body will tell me but I don't trust myself or my judgement (with good reason lol) these days...what signs should I look for? Thank you again..all of you.
    With love and lots of hope,
    Lily
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  7. #7
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Lily
    Welcome! Do exactly as Randy suggested. There will always be some discomfort in reducing. Don't take more subs!! Your body will adjust.
    Good decision to get off the subs! It's a long road back but better than where we were headed! Hang in there. I promise you this is doable!!

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