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Confused..I think I took to much
  1. #1
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Question Confused..I think I took to much

    Hello all... I have wrote my situation 2 times and believe I didn't get it sent to the correct forum or location.
    I've been using opioids in terms of pain pills for about 3 years.. I average 125-150mg a day. I was able to find some orange strips (3) each @ 8mg each.. 2 orange pills (54-375) and about 8 orange pills (AN 415).. I don't know for sure but I assume from research they are all suboxen?

    Here's what happened... I waited 7.5hrs since last 10mg of opioids (I always snort them).. I woke at about 7am and was felling some significant withdrawals.. I had been tapering the last 4 days .. freaking out I took 1 (54 375) and snorted half and put the other half under my tongue. Within 1-2 hours I was losing my mind and felt my heart was coming through chest. It's the feeling I got when I tried to quit Cold turkey once before. Not knowing what to do I then grabbed a orange strip tore in half and put under my tongue. In about 30min I was all good.. that was Tuesday morning.. at now 930am.. I took another 4gm strip at 9pm .. this morning I waited until 11am to take another 4mg strip and then I took half a orange (AN 415) 4mg at 8pm.. I feel ok .. some leg cramps and joint aches but I'm good as I don't expect to be perfect.. I'm just so scared of what I've been reading on here about tapering off .. and given how much I took as my first dose.. please help line me out from here what to take and when and I will do it .. PLEASE HELP

  2. #2
    asp44 is offline Member
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    Hang tight, there will be people on here to answer your questions. Unfortunately i know nothing about subs but i would almost bet my last dollar cat, or randy will get you on the right path

  3. #3
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you asp44! I hope so.. taking 12mg out of the gate and going into insane worse withdrawals... I know I did something wrong.. and I began to reduce today.. hope I'm doing the correct thing.

    Thank you again!

  4. #4
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Propilot, welcome to this forum. Have you read Roberts subtaper plan? What is your goal? Have you tried to quit opiates before? You have to really want this more than anything for yourself. What your doing now is just taking the Drugs to feel better we as Addicts always want more. Snorting the Drugs addict behavior,we have to break that cycle.. Unfortunately there is no magical pill that will make the withdrawals go away. Believe me I searched everywhere. Let us know what you plan of action is moving forward. How much and what you have. Read some threads here it will also help with the process..be well. Stay Strong for Today..

  5. #5
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Hello LVG ..thank for reaching out to me .. I'm sincerely and genuinely trying to be done with the pills.. I have many I could take ..I'm now on day 3 I'm still strong.. I did find Roberts plan.. sounds like he had passed but saved many during his time here. What a guy to take his time to care for people is amazing! I understand his plan .. my issue and questions is what happens when I took that 8mg (57-375) pill (half I snorted in a effort to make it work quicker) MISTAKE! I'm reading.. and then the other half dissolved under my tongue...that sent me into the worst withdrawals.. then 45 min later I took another 4mg strip and in 30 min I was ok .. was this coincidence? Either way day 1 I took 12mg at 7am on day 1 of what I mentioned above (suboxen I understand) and then 4mg 10hrs later... day 2..4mg at 11am and 4mg at 9pm ...day 3 3.5 mg (approx) at 9am .. I just hope to get guidance her on out to get off these suboxen.. I don't want to be hooked on these.. I feel ok just tired/fatigued .. that's ok I can make it.. Again just need a lay out of how much to take and when from here .. and I'm afraid I've messed it all up with my intiatial dosage .. please please help ..

    Thank you again LVG !!

  6. #6
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    I forgot to add I have the following left
    1 (57-375) 8mg orange pill
    8 (AN 415) 8mg orange pill
    12 mg of the orange strips

    To clarify
    Day 1
    Took 8mg at 7am and went into crazy withdrawals
    Took 4mg at 745 and in 30 min was ok..

    Day 2
    Took 4mg at 11am and 4mg at 9pm

    Day 3 (today)
    Took approx 3.5 mg .. all is ok .. ive simply felt fatigued since starting

  7. #7
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hang in there someone will be by with support..

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propilot View Post
    Hello all... I have wrote my situation 2 times and believe I didn't get it sent to the correct forum or location.
    I've been using opioids in terms of pain pills for about 3 years.. I average 125-150mg a day. I was able to find some orange strips (3) each @ 8mg each.. 2 orange pills (54-375) and about 8 orange pills (AN 415).. I don't know for sure but I assume from research they are all suboxen?

    Here's what happened... I waited 7.5hrs since last 10mg of opioids (I always snort them).. I woke at about 7am and was felling some significant withdrawals.. I had been tapering the last 4 days .. freaking out I took 1 (54 375) and snorted half and put the other half under my tongue. Within 1-2 hours I was losing my mind and felt my heart was coming through chest. It's the feeling I got when I tried to quit Cold turkey once before. Not knowing what to do I then grabbed a orange strip tore in half and put under my tongue. In about 30min I was all good.. that was Tuesday morning.. at now 930am.. I took another 4gm strip at 9pm .. this morning I waited until 11am to take another 4mg strip and then I took half a orange (AN 415) 4mg at 8pm.. I feel ok .. some leg cramps and joint aches but I'm good as I don't expect to be perfect.. I'm just so scared of what I've been reading on here about tapering off .. and given how much I took as my first dose.. please help line me out from here what to take and when and I will do it .. PLEASE HELP

    Welcome!

    Lets get right to it. Please don't snort the Suboxone. As Lvg stated that's pure addictive behavior, and using subs means you want to be clean. So please, no more of that. And the reason you felt so bad at first when you took the sub is you took it way too soon and went into precipitated wd's. It's beyond me why you weren't sicker longer than you were, but you are one lucky guy/gal. I've been in PW's twice and thought I was dying I was so sick. Went to the ER and they sent me home because there isn't anything you can do except let them pass.

    Suboxone needs to be used correctly to reap the benefit from them. Robert's plan is the right way to use Suboxone. You need to allow yourself to go into moderate/severe wd's from your drug of choice, use the Cows scale, and induct on the LOWEST possible dose of subs. Once you're at a 26 score on the Cows you begin your induction with a .5mg (1/2 of 1mg) piece of sub and wait one full hour to give it plenty of time to work. Then you add .25mg (1/4 of 1mg) pieces until you're completely stable with little or no wd's. That's the right way to do this. The goal is to be on the lowest effective dose of Suboxone, not the highest. Sub works differently than all other opiates. It's extremely strong with a very long half life. A little bit goes a long way.

    What I would do if I were you.....I would stop taking anymore sub, or anything else for that matter and allow wd's to hit. Go as long as you possibly can, and once you just can't stand it any longer begin by taking that .5mg dose of sub. Wait a full hour because Suboxone works slower for some than it does others. If you need more, and you probably will, start taking those .25mg doses as I mentioned until you're stable and feeling ok. If you take too much Suboxone you get that sickly feeling.

    So you're going to basically re-do the induction and do this right. It may take a day or two before wd's get rough enough this time because you have a lot of sub in your system from taking it earlier and that's due to the half life. You should have plenty of sub to do the entire process from induction to final jump once you taper down.

    And you should plan on reducing all the way down to at least .25mg, and lower is even better. Robert jumped from a .5mg dose, but we've since discovered that going lower softens the landing much better.

    That's my suggestion for you and what I would do if it were me in your shoes. I spent nearly 18 years of my life addicted to every drug on earth. Went on Methadone for years and doses over 200mgs daily. I made the switch to Suboxone, tapered off it, and now have over 3 years clean. So you can certainly do it too.

    Hope this helps. I'll check back later.

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-05-2017 at 11:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey propilot. Listen to Randy he really knows his stuff and simply reading his posts has really helped me in the last two weeks. I made the jump off subs 19 days ago after doing 16mg a day for 4.5 years and then tapering down to 1 mg a day over the course of 6 months. Before that I was hooked on oxy 240-300 mg a day for 2-3 years I can't give you a honest time frame because I really don't know, I was that messed up. Subs should not be used long term. The longer you are on them the harder it is to make the jump. Follow Roberts plan. I wish I had found it before I made the jump, it would have made for a softer landing. But I have absolutely no regrets. I feel better every day and I am so glad I finally did it. Not going to lie, the first 12 days were terrible. But the clouds started to lift. I feel better every day and have a positive outlook. Still dealing with lack of sleep and exhaustion and some depression from time to time. But the great people on this site are here to help you. This is a judgement free zone. Ask as many questions as you need. Someone will be able to help you out. Best of luck to you. Keep your head up and take it one day at a time. You can do this!!! Keep us updated on your progress.

  10. #10
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Thank thank you so much Randy!! I will do exactly as you say !! I will stop and go into deeper W/D's.. I was so hoping for you to come along and you did.. I'm a corporate pilot and have never done a drug in my life until these pills after a femer and tibia break and it went from there .. I know you hear this all the time.. I wish I could taper down now and go from here as I feel ok .. but if that's not what you suggest I won't! ... I'm having a hard time finding Roberts taper.. but this how I understand it .. I'm going to go into deep WD then take .5mg and up by ..25mg to I stabilize.. then go 4days at this amount .. on the 5th day drop daily by .25mg till done.. is this correct?

    Randy .. sincerely thank you!
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  11. #11
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    7272 thank you so much for you support and words .. they are so uplifting and needed! You and I are similar in the years and amount taken of oxy.. so it sounds like you were on subs for a long time and then just tapered down? That's what I'm hoping to do .. but if I'm understanding This correctly.. if I wait and go back into deep WD like Randy is saying and start over I probably can do this sooner in terms of my length of time on subs? ..

    Thank you again for all you have said !!

  12. #12
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    I'm not sure how to send you a link someone will be by soon to help.

  13. #13
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Randy another note.. after reading many threads here...I am also completely be Willder by why I was not sick longer ...as I also before I went into PW.. my main symptom was my heart felt like it was coming through my chest.. I wanted to climb the walls.. but nothing else.. I have went into withdrawals before and this was exactly the same feeling I had... why it went away when I took the extra 4MG I don't know or was it going to go away anyways ? There was probably a hour from the initial 8mg I took to start and the 4mg.. regardless I'm ok and am ready to follow your instructions..

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    GoodDaysAhead is offline Member
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    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Gooddaysahead !!!!!!!!

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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome Propilot!

    Who knows exactly what happened when you took that first sub. I'm sure Randy is correct that you took it too soon but that's done and now you know better. Follow Randy's instructions and Robert's Plan and you'll do great. Allow yourself to get as deep into withdrawal as you can stand and then begin slowly just like Randy said. You'll land at the lowest effective dose and you'll feel much better than you do now and your taper will take less time. Win-Win. The protocol is to reduce after about four days at any one dose by no more than 25% of the dose so the amount of each reduction will be less as you move forward. If it takes you a day or two longer to become completely stable, take it. It's far more important to be completely stable than to rush a reduction. Some if not most reductions you should be ready on the fifth day but some of them you may have to stick to that dose for an extra day or two. It's OK!! Minor symptoms can be expected for a day or two after a reduction but then your body will adjust and you'll be ready to reduce again.

    I'm sure glad that you posted here to get going in the correct direction. Subs are a great tool but only if you use them correctly otherwise they can become a nightmare. For those who follow the plan religiously, things go smoothly and you'll have this behind you in no time. Keep posting and asking questions if and when you have them even if it's just to confirm that what you're feeling is typical or to verify what your new dose will be when you do a reduction. When you reinduct, let us know what dose you landed on and we'll take it from there. Best wishes. You're going to do great.

    Peace,

    Cat

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    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Randy... so in a effort to acquire enough medication to get through this per your suggestion of Roberts plan I located some more pills.. they are subutex not suboxen.. now I have 210mg of suboxen and 120 subutex .. please advise what to do with subutex .. thank you Randy .. I'm hanging on your every word !

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    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you so much Cat .. I've hear of you and Randy on hear as the true saviors for us seeking help ! I can't thank you enough.. I just asked Randy about subutex .. I have 210mg of suboxen and 120mg of subutex.. should I be not using one over the other ? Or one to completion and then the other .. or are they the same .. I have read that one (subutex I believe) has that other component in it Naloxone.. just don't want to mess this mess up anymore .. thank you Cat !
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propilot View Post
    Thank you so much Cat .. I've hear of you and Randy on hear as the true saviors for us seeking help ! I can't thank you enough.. I just asked Randy about subutex .. I have 210mg of suboxen and 120mg of subutex.. should I be not using one over the other ? Or one to completion and then the other .. or are they the same .. I have read that one (subutex I believe) has that other component in it Naloxone.. just don't want to mess this mess up anymore .. thank you Cat !
    They're essentially the same except that Suboxone has the Naloxone in it that is an opiate antagonist which removes the option of abuse while the Subutex is a pure agonist. I'd stick with the suboxone. if you need to switch, it shouldn't cause any issues for you. With 210mg of the Suboxone, I would think that you'll have more than enough of that to complete your taper anyway.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  20. #20
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Perfect !! Thank you Cat !!

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propilot View Post
    Perfect !! Thank you Cat !!

    Hey Pilot -

    Sorry I wasn't here to answer your questions but you received perfect advice and suggestions from Cat, GoodDaysAhead, Lvg nightmare and Beefaroni. I get very busy at times and not able to post nearly as much as I would like. No worries as you're in good hands with everyone as we all follow the same protocol where subs are concerned. Robert325 left us his master plan to follow and as long as it's followed closely you'll do just fine.

    I realize you are feeling somewhat ok at this time, but you have quite a bit of sub in your system from taking it a couple days. The idea by stopping it completely and letting wd's begin is to allow some of it to dissipate and not have a large amount in your system to deal with. You'll feel even better doing it this way.

    Just go as long as you possibly can before giving in. It sux but you only have to do this once.

    Continue posting and letting us know how you're feeling. I'll check in on you periodically.

    Randy

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    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Randy ! I feel that everyone genuinely cares ! Question.. being I haven't had any "pill" opioid in my system for 4 days.. will my wd's be as severe ?
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  23. #23
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello propiolt, your doing great..don't sit around and wait for what's not here.. keep positive live for the Here and Now..as Cat says don't want for the other shoe to drop it might not.. Stay Strong for Today..
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  24. #24
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you LVG !! So much appreciated!!
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propilot View Post
    Thank you Randy ! I feel that everyone genuinely cares ! Question.. being I haven't had any "pill" opioid in my system for 4 days.. will my wd's be as severe ?
    You feel like we care because we do!! We keep what we have best when we give it away. Helping others is more help to me than I could ever be to anyone else. True story. You will see. Hang around here long enough and it becomes very fulfilling to just help to motivate someone and to believe that perhaps we might have been of just a little help in pulling others to the other side. Not much better than that. Try it. You'll like it.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  26. #26
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    Well said Cat ! Thank you it's truly amazing how the positiveness has helped others including myself get through a very difficult time !

  27. #27
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey flying by to see how things are going? Stay Strong for Today..
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  28. #28
    Propilot is offline Junior Member
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    I'm doing good .. LVG ! Thank you for checking on me!

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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    I love that! A fly-by. lol Pretty appropriate, Lvg! It's good to hear that you're hanging tough and hanging in. Things getting better, are they? Good!!!! Keep checking in. We're always thinking about you.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  30. #30
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    ..... Ditto....
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