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Day 1 sub induction
  1. #1
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Default Day 1 sub induction

    Hi all, I've lurked in the shadows here for a long time, but finally decided it was time to make an account. To give a little background I am 28 year male and am Dependent on oxy. I normally do around 200-250mgs a day. This has been steadily going on for at least the last 18 months. I am not sure if this is normal, but I am a highly functioning addict. I work in sales, show up to work everyday, make over 100K a year, and no one would ever know my secret unless I told them. That being said, I have to stop. These little things have wrecked me financially. Thank god it's not too deep of a hole where I can't get out, but it's gonna take some time. That's what the scariest part is for me, that the only downside I find in my dependence is the financial strain as I juggle everything else very well. Enough about me though. This morning I inducted sub at a rate of .5mg every 45-60min at around 7am as I was sweating and shivering, yawning, restless,... you know the routine I'm sure. I feel like I'm stable and ended up at 3mg. I'm still getting some chills here and there it they are very manageable.

    I just want to make sure I am doing this right. So i should hold this dose for 4 days then switch to dosing twice a day then start to drop .25% every 4 days. That means I would be at 3mg for a total of 8 days, is that correct?

    I appreciate the help!

  2. #2
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    That is basically what I'm doing but I started at 4mg and was/am addicted to poppy pod tea. Also I waited over 50 hours after my last dose of tea before taking my first sub in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

    Although those 2 days were very hard as soon as my first dose of 4mg sub hit me I felt fine. I then stayed on 4mg for another 3 days before cutting to 3mg which I have been on for two days.

    So yes, your on basically the right path, look it all up. Precipitated withdrawal and getting hooked on sub are the main things to avoid here.

  3. #3
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the response! I believe I'm out of the woods as far as PW goes. I have a very fast metabolism and have induced before prior to 18hours from my last dose and not had any issues (knock on wood). From what I've read
    This might be very different then if if I was using PS tea though. Was today your first day on subs? I'd love to compare how you're feeling.. I might have to take a little more Bc I can't
    Stop thinking about it at work which makes me believe I'm not completely at a stable dose. Im gonna
    Hold out for another hour though and see how it goes. Just writing and talking about it albeit virtually really helps my mind. I now see why so many people start a diary. Cheers!

  4. #4
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    Hi,

    I wasn't on PS tea unless you mean straw tea (I believe I've heard pod tea referred to as straw tea), pod tea is a lot stronger than seed tea.

    I don't think much about taking more tea. I can't anyway as I think it would put me into PW. I don't think the subs can take away your mental desire for the high it just treats the physical symptoms of WD as far as I'm aware. Your mental desire will need to be sorted with some kind of therapy. Here in UK I goto group meetings and have a 1 to 1 about once a month.

    This morning was the first day since I started on subs that I woke with any physical withdrawal which was a bit of chills and sweating so I took my 3mg and went back to bed and a couple hours later I was fine. And I've been fine all day.

    I'm on day six of my sub treatment having started on 4mg for 4 days and now 3mg for 2 days. Plan is to do the same again in two days and cut to 2.25mg.

  5. #5
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    I didn't know there was a difference bt poppy seed and poppy pod tea.. you learn something new everyday. Have you had any issues sleeping? Also do you get any hot or cold flashes?

    Thanks!

  6. #6
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMelt View Post
    Hi all, I've lurked in the shadows here for a long time, but finally decided it was time to make an account. To give a little background I am 28 year male and am Dependent on oxy. I normally do around 200-250mgs a day. This has been steadily going on for at least the last 18 months. I am not sure if this is normal, but I am a highly functioning addict. I work in sales, show up to work everyday, make over 100K a year, and no one would ever know my secret unless I told them. That being said, I have to stop. These little things have wrecked me financially. Thank god it's not too deep of a hole where I can't get out, but it's gonna take some time. That's what the scariest part is for me, that the only downside I find in my dependence is the financial strain as I juggle everything else very well. Enough about me though. This morning I inducted sub at a rate of .5mg every 45-60min at around 7am as I was sweating and shivering, yawning, restless,... you know the routine I'm sure. I feel like I'm stable and ended up at 3mg. I'm still getting some chills here and there it they are very manageable.

    I just want to make sure I am doing this right. So i should hold this dose for 4 days then switch to dosing twice a day then start to drop .25% every 4 days. That means I would be at 3mg for a total of 8 days, is that correct?

    I appreciate the help!


    Welcome Mr. Melt!

    It's so refreshing to have someone sign up that has performed a correct sub induction. My congrats to you sir! Too many join that have horrible sub doctors and inducted on very high doses and/or been on the sub for years. That's where all the horror stories start. You on the other hand have done this right!

    The induction can actually take a couple days to get the right dose that keeps you completely stable and feeling your best. The fact that you report having some chills may mean you need a little more sub? Or your body may need more time to tweak itself. I would see how you feel tomorrow. If you feel ok in the am and mid-mornig then 3mg may be your dose. If you find a few symptoms popping up then you may want to add a bit more sub and see how that works. By a bit more I mean adding .25mg doses every 45-60 minutes as you have done until you feel nearly 100%. I highly doubt you would need more than 4mg total and that's about an average dose for most people.

    When you're waiting in wd's to induct you basically are feeling terrible, as you should be feeling. Soon as you take a little sub you almost instantly begin feeling "better", but maybe not 100%. It's common to need a little more sub on the 2nd day so don;t worry if you find that you do.

    See what tomorrow brings and go from there is my advice.

    Once you know you're good and stable spend around a week on that dose then begin your taper.

    Good job and again, welcome!

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-08-2016 at 05:46 PM.
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  7. #7
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Thank you for the kind words Randy. It definitely helps. After getting home and taking a very long shower I ended up taking a little more. So I'm at 3.25 for the day. I was still restless, I couldn't pay attention to anything, and
    My hips and knees were/are achy. I assume this is normal. I doubt I'll get much sleep tn considering I've been dependent on the oxy to knock me out for so long. It's probably even worse that I known my roommates are upstairs feeling GREAT right now. I really need to move out. Once I fix my finances I plan on it. This is the first step in the right direction. Thanks
    Again randy.
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  8. #8
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey MrMelt
    Welcome! The temptation of roommates doing drugs is a consideration. You have to want to be free MORE than you want to be sedated. There will be times when it will seem like an impossible feat. Keep going when that happens.
    Sleep can become an issue. Melatonin may help. Be determined! Determination will get you through!
    This can be done and you can succeed. Let me tell you, you will never regret this good choice. Your roommates will have to decide on their own.
    Hang in there. We are here to support you and we've all walked this path....

  9. #9
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Dang a very long reply got deleted some how. I'll skip a lot of the stuff I wrote and just reiterate my personal experience last night and today. First off thank you for the reply Ming! Last night wasn't great but I did get about 4 hours of sleep. I dosed again around 7am when I couldn't take the restlessness. I dosed 2mg over the course of 2 hours. I feel "good". Still have some joint pain, runny nose, and a hot/cold flash every once in a while. Am I hurting myself by not going back up to the 3mg dose from yesterday? I still feel like I'm finding my sweet spot and might have needed that extra umph yesterday as it was my first day in a long time without taking a pill. I have a couple questions. Often people will talk abut how sub will get you through the acute phase of WD from oxy. Is my brain really healing? I know sub is a partial antagonist but it's an opiod all the same. I would assume my receptors are healing slightly as I'm in a little bit of WD which I welcome. I feel if I don't feel anything I'm not making any gains. This might be a little morbid, but. Hey "no pain no gain" right. Also right now I am really having trouble focusing on anything longer than 5 min; besides writing or reading on here. Anyone have any recommendations as what I can do with myself when I'm. It at work? Also I feel like my mouth is always parched and thirsty. Any fix for this besides drinking water? Please let me know if I'm hurting myself in the long run by not dosing to 3mg again. I appreciate all the responses. Ming I addressed my living situation in full in my response that got deleted but just don't have the motivation to retype everything. In the long run I just need to figure something else out and I will once I get my finances back in track. Thank you!!

  10. #10
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMelt View Post
    Dang a very long reply got deleted some how. I'll skip a lot of the stuff I wrote and just reiterate my personal experience last night and today. First off thank you for the reply Ming! Last night wasn't great but I did get about 4 hours of sleep. I dosed again around 7am when I couldn't take the restlessness. I dosed 2mg over the course of 2 hours. I feel "good". Still have some joint pain, runny nose, and a hot/cold flash every once in a while. Am I hurting myself by not going back up to the 3mg dose from yesterday? I still feel like I'm finding my sweet spot and might have needed that extra umph yesterday as it was my first day in a long time without taking a pill. I have a couple questions. Often people will talk abut how sub will get you through the acute phase of WD from oxy. Is my brain really healing? I know sub is a partial antagonist but it's an opiod all the same. I would assume my receptors are healing slightly as I'm in a little bit of WD which I welcome. I feel if I don't feel anything I'm not making any gains. This might be a little morbid, but. Hey "no pain no gain" right. Also right now I am really having trouble focusing on anything longer than 5 min; besides writing or reading on here. Anyone have any recommendations as what I can do with myself when I'm. It at work? Also I feel like my mouth is always parched and thirsty. Any fix for this besides drinking water? Please let me know if I'm hurting myself in the long run by not dosing to 3mg again. I appreciate all the responses. Ming I addressed my living situation in full in my response that got deleted but just don't have the motivation to retype everything. In the long run I just need to figure something else out and I will once I get my finances back in track. Thank you!!
    Hi,

    Hope your doing okay. You definitely need to get away from other users. I think you know that but it has to be a priority. I have both seen others fail and failed myself with an alcohol addiction simply because I couldn't control myself when those around me (in my case my long term girlfriend who was an alcoholic) were abusing. Another friend of mine spent a month or more (maybe 6 weeks) in rehab and got clean but as soon as he went back to his old life living with his >>>>>> using friend he went pretty much straight back on the H. Now he's dead, he had abused his body so badly with all sorts of drugs over the years that one day he literally just dropped.

    Anyway in my experience so far I have had very little WD symptoms and really that is what your aim should also be so if your experiencing WD's then something isn't right. But you can't just keep taking more and more sub or you will end up getting hooked on that. Try and stabilise yourself. It sounds as if you are not stable yet. As soon as you are stable then wait a few days and reduce the dosage by 25% as everyone seems to agree this is the best way. 25% off every 4-5 days. That should get you off the subs with minimal to no WD. It's working for me. I did 4 days on 4mg and now I've just finished 4 days on 3mg and I've experienced minor WD symptoms on one day so far that's all.

    Good luck bud. It's hard. Harder for you living with users and having to work. Being self employed (online retail selling on Amazon and eBay) and having a bit of spare cash I can afford to take a little time off, close my shops temporarily and relax but I'm about ready to reopen and get listing new stock and that's only 10/11 days since I stopped the tea!
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  11. #11
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Mr. Melt. Hows it going today? Have you stabilized?

    Good post by Inversions.

    Randy
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  12. #12
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMelt View Post
    I didn't know there was a difference bt poppy seed and poppy pod tea.. you learn something new everyday. Have you had any issues sleeping? Also do you get any hot or cold flashes?

    Thanks!
    Oh yeah, a massive difference. Like between a brew of natural European 'Magic Mushrooms' and liquid LSD kind of difference. At least in my experience.

    This is not recommended and I don't recommend you try it as I've gotten addicted to benzo's before and coming off them is no pick-nick but I'm taking 10mg of diaz every night and I'm sleeping like a log. I'll keep doing that until I'm off the sub and then taper that as well.

    Only hot/cold flush was day 6 and that was when I woke up late and before my daily dose of sub. As soon as that 3mg hit my system I was fine.

  13. #13
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Hey Randy, I'm doing prettt well. Woke up at 5:30 this morning took .5mg around 7. About 10 seconds after putting it in my mouth I thought to my self "why am I taking this". I'm not withdrawing right now besides the inability to get comfy in my bed. So I got up took a shower and now at work and I'm the first one in. I really do feel okay besides some stupid self remorse which I will get past and some achy joints. I only took 2mg sub yesterday and was again really fine and even through the night. I'm trying to used these 4 days to learn my body and figure out what is needed. Is it bad if I feel a little bit of withdrawal? I feel like that's a good thing and my brain is making progress, and I'm okay with that. I just simply can't have the full blown can't even walk up the steps lethargy. That and the RLS from CT is what gets me. Now being productive at work is a different story... that's okay though. I am waiting to see if i need to take another .5mg. I still don't know what my stable dose is, but I guess that's what these 4 days are for. Once I get it down I'll stay at that dose for 4 days and then start the taper. Thanks again for the replys!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-10-2016 at 09:16 AM.

  14. #14
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    Sounds like your doing great.

    Don't worry if your getting a little WD's. But I don't hold with the no pain no gain, I prefer gain with no pain!

    Anyway if you only took 2mg yesterday and were mostly fine I'd try and stick on that for a few days and then taper to 1.5.

  15. #15
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Ah I also forgot to ask a question. Does anyone else get waves of like "goosebumps" when going through WD, but it's not cause by feeling cold. It's very similar to a runners high. Starts In the brain then radiates all over and then my brain kinda feels like smaller; Iduno it's weird. It feels good though and puts a smile on my face. Almost like a cranial orgasim. I assume these are my endorphins restarting on their own, but agin not sure. Just thought I ask. That's again all. This writinfndoes really do wonders for my idle hands.

  16. #16
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    Can't say I've experienced that coming off of anything and I've been physically addicted to alcohol, benzo's and opiates!

  17. #17
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    I got dependent on benzos the first time I went CT from opiates. I've never had an anxiety attack in till then. I don't think I'll ever touch a benzo again. I think the WD is way worse Bc it's so mental, and if I don't have my mental solitude then i don't have anything. One of my posts didn't show up again. Not sure if it's being deleted or what. O well

  18. #18
    MrMelt is offline New Member
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    Does anyone know at what mg's (sub) causes complete saturation of opiate receptors?

  19. #19
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    In one hit? I think I read that something like 16mg should cover that. But like everything else it will vary a bit from person to person and I can't guarantee the info I read was accurate anyway. Of course then if your talking about taking it over time then as we discussed before it will build up in some people much quicker than others. I'm fairly sure I am metabolising it quickly.

    Hope its going well for you. I'm down to 2mg today after 4 days on 3mg. Guess I'll find out soon if I'm cutting too quick.

    Good luck!

  20. #20
    inversions is offline Junior Member
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    Hi MrMelt,

    Hope things are still going okay? How are you? We started our sub plan about the same time so I feel a bit more linked to you.

    I'm fine at 2mg and on day 11 of my sub plan. One more day on 2mg and then I drop to 1.5.

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