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Detoxing from Fentanyl using Suboxone
  1. #1
    TeeeArrr is offline New Member
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    Default Detoxing from Fentanyl using Suboxone

    Hi, I'm new to this forum. Hoping to talk to someone about what I'm going through.
    In a few days I'm going to be taking Suboxone in order to detox from fentanyl patches. I'll be completely honest & transparent about my situation in hopes of getting advice, information, etc on my actual situation. I'll answer any questions honestly. I appreciate any help you guys might provide.
    OK, some info.. I have chronic pain & have been on fentanyl patches & oxycodone for the past 6+ years. I'm currently on fentanyl 50mcg & oxycodone 10mg x3. I never had issues in all that time- took exactly as prescribed. About 3-4 months ago I made the terrible, stupid mistake of gumming a piece of a patch in hopes of getting pain relief asap. Things went downhill from there & I started gumming them because it seemed I couldn't get relief using them properly. I'm sick of it & I've decided to get off the patches with Suboxone. I've used it before, maybe 10yrs, to reset so to speak & get on lower dose Oxycodone. Everything went well.
    I don't know how it'll be this time because this is Fentanyl & I've been gumming. It just seems like it's going to be harder. Does anyone know if there's a big difference, detoxing w/ Suboxone..if you've been wearing a patch versus gumming them?
    I'm also wondering what people w/ chronic pain have done after the detox, in order to get relief.

    I'd really like to talk to someone here about this, hope someone out there can relate to my issue. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Welcome to the forum. Nice to have you here with us!

    The manner in which you use the Fentanyl won't matter when you go to the subs. What will matter is that you do the induction correctly the first time so have have a successful sub experience. Completely stop the fentanyl andf Oxy. Allow yourself to go into moderate.severe wd's. Use the Cows to determine when it's safe to take the sub. Here's the link to the Cows below -

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/defa...rawalScale.pdf

    Score yourself honestly and accurately. Once you get to a score of 26 or higher you are ok to take that first dose of sub. Begin your induction with a 1mg dose of sub and wait at least an hour giving it time to work. After that take a .5mg dose and wait again. Then you'll want to take .25mg doses every hour until you're stable with little or no wd symptoms. The goal is to be on the lowest effective dose of sub. If you follow that protocol you'll do just fine and feel as normal as possible in a matter of hours.

    Here's the link to our sub plan below -

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    Used it myself and now have 2+ years clean. It works!

    When you've spent a little time on a stable dose you can then begin the taper process of reducing by 25% every 4 or so days. Read the plan over carefully.

    Here if you need me.

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-13-2017 at 07:37 PM.
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  3. #3
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    As far as your chronic pain issues many find that after stopping the pain meds their pain level is no where near what they believed it to be. The pain meds themselves can be a source of pain. Only when you're off everything for a period of time will you know just how severe your pain actually is.

    Randy
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  4. #4
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Teeearr
    Welcome! Randy is right about the pain levels. Once i stopped the methadone etc., and finished the sub taper, i found my pain was not nearly as great as before i quit. The pain meds are not good for long term conditions because they take away the body's ability to produce endorphines by itself. They're great if you're having an appendectomy but not so good for chronic conditions. Go figure.
    Follow Randy's advice and you'll be fine. Do exactly as he suggests--he doesn't say things for no reason.
    I made it through the taper with his help and i am still sooooo grateful! You will be too! Promise!
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  5. #5
    TeeeArrr is offline New Member
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    Hi Randy,
    Thanks for replying & for the tips! I went through the induction guide & bookmarked it. I also downloaded the COWS file. A lot of enlightening stuff as I figured I'd be starting off at 8mg or something high because of the fentanyl. What I've taken away from the guide is that less is more. I'm feeling a lot better after going through the information, like "I've got this!" I've got my appointment Wed morning & will be getting a prescription then.

    Great to hear this plan worked for you. Do you remember how long you were on Sub? (using it to detox & then weaning off it)

    TR
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  6. #6
    TeeeArrr is offline New Member
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    In regards to the chronic pain.. I was thinking the exact same thing! I'm going to be trying other, non Rx methods of pain relief & wondered if I'd even know if they were working if I was on heavy pain meds. I guess after detoxing I'll know if the other therapies will help. I have a feeling that you're right about how my level of pain will decrease after getting off the strong meds. That'd be great.
    Randy35 likes this.

  7. #7
    TeeeArrr is offline New Member
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    Hi Ming, I hear you on everything and I will definitely be taking his advice. How long did it take you to do your detox & taper off Sub? I'm just curious. Also, you mentioned having chronic pain - do you take/do. anything for it? Or is it at a low level that you just deal with it?
    I'm really hoping that these meds have just been making the pain worse than what it really is. Like that it'll be easier to deal with the pain after getting off fentanyl & oxycodone. I'm planning on doing some different therapies/procedures so that should really help w/ the pain issues.
    Thanks for responding and I'm glad this plan worked for you. I'll hopefully be telling the same story about myself in the future!

    TR

  8. #8
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeeArrr View Post
    Hi Randy,
    Thanks for replying & for the tips! I went through the induction guide & bookmarked it. I also downloaded the COWS file. A lot of enlightening stuff as I figured I'd be starting off at 8mg or something high because of the fentanyl. What I've taken away from the guide is that less is more. I'm feeling a lot better after going through the information, like "I've got this!" I've got my appointment Wed morning & will be getting a prescription then.

    Great to hear this plan worked for you. Do you remember how long you were on Sub? (using it to detox & then weaning off it)

    TR

    Hello TR -

    Here's the link to my thread if you would like to read through it. Warning, it's looong, but full of inspiration, hope, support, and plenty of info. Here it is -
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...ump-65786.html

    I was on the subs about 9 months, by choice. I was abusing every drug on the planet over 18 years. My habit and tolerance was HUGE. I would gobble down 20-30 of the 7.5mg Vicodin sometimes twice a day. Really smart huh? I took every narcotic pill know to man. And every benzo too. I gravitated to the illegal and illicit stuff also i'm sad to say. I lost everything I owned and loved to my addiction. I hit beyond rock bottom.

    Relapsed so many times I can't ever count them all. Getting clean is easy, I did it many, many times. Staying clean is what takes the greater effort. I attend bot NA and AA meetings for face to face support. I now have well over 2 years clean and I've completely turned my life around. Great job, money in the bank, investments, newer home, bought a new truck a while ago, and dating until I find the right woman. Life is so good right now!! And it can be yours too!

    I'm so glad you read through the sub plan. It's a wonderful plan that has produced success stories out of thousands of members, both current, and past that have left the forum to live their lives. If you stick close to it you'll have a successful sub experience. I'll be happy to help you through it as will many others that have the experience and/or knowledge.

    The toughest and perhaps the worst part of going on subs is the waiting in wd's before you induct. It's not fun, but it only needs to be done once if you do it right I always say, and it's true. You now understand that sub is a LESS is more drug. The less you take the better. Start small as I suggested and build up your dose until stable.

    One other thing of importance. Sometimes these sub doctors want you to take that first dose of sub in their office. And MOST of the time it's a HUGE dose as in 8-16mgs, or more. Don't argue with the doctor. If you can get out of there with a script that would be Awesome! If not and you are made to dose there don't worry, come right back here and we can get the dose down and not cause you any symptoms. Promise. If you can get out of there with a months worth of sub at 8mg a day (30 subs) you won;t ever need to go back to that doctor!!! That's plenty of sub to get you on and off!!

    Hope this helps. You're going to do well.

    Randy
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  9. #9
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hello TR -

    Here's the link to my thread if you would like to read through it. Warning, it's looong, but full of inspiration, hope, support, and plenty of info. Here it is -
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...ump-65786.html

    I was on the subs about 9 months, by choice. I was abusing every drug on the planet over 18 years. My habit and tolerance was HUGE. I would gobble down 20-30 of the 7.5mg Vicodin sometimes twice a day. Really smart huh? I took every narcotic pill know to man. And every benzo too. I gravitated to the illegal and illicit stuff also i'm sad to say. I lost everything I owned and loved to my addiction. I hit beyond rock bottom.

    Relapsed so many times I can't ever count them all. Getting clean is easy, I did it many, many times. Staying clean is what takes the greater effort. I attend bot NA and AA meetings for face to face support. I now have well over 2 years clean and I've completely turned my life around. Great job, money in the bank, investments, newer home, bought a new truck a while ago, and dating until I find the right woman. Life is so good right now!! And it can be yours too!

    I'm so glad you read through the sub plan. It's a wonderful plan that has produced success stories out of thousands of members, both current, and past that have left the forum to live their lives. If you stick close to it you'll have a successful sub experience. I'll be happy to help you through it as will many others that have the experience and/or knowledge.

    The toughest and perhaps the worst part of going on subs is the waiting in wd's before you induct. It's not fun, but it only needs to be done once if you do it right I always say, and it's true. You now understand that sub is a LESS is more drug. The less you take the better. Start small as I suggested and build up your dose until stable.

    One other thing of importance. Sometimes these sub doctors want you to take that first dose of sub in their office. And MOST of the time it's a HUGE dose as in 8-16mgs, or more. Don't argue with the doctor. If you can get out of there with a script that would be Awesome! If not and you are made to dose there don't worry, come right back here and we can get the dose down and not cause you any symptoms. Promise. If you can get out of there with a months worth of sub at 8mg a day (30 subs) you won;t ever need to go back to that doctor!!! That's plenty of sub to get you on and off!!

    Hope this helps. You're going to do well.

    Randy

    Left out some important info. I was on Methadone for years at doses well over 200mgs per day. I switched to sub from there. Easier to taper the subs than the mdone.

  10. #10
    TeeeArrr is offline New Member
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    I got a script for Zubsolv. I've never even heard of that. The nurse told me it was generic for Suboxone & I guess more of a chance it'll be covered by my insurance. Guess I'll find out when I go to the pharmacy. Anyone know about this Zubsolv stuff? Are they right?
    Any info greatly appreciated!

  11. #11
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeeArrr View Post
    I got a script for Zubsolv. I've never even heard of that. The nurse told me it was generic for Suboxone & I guess more of a chance it'll be covered by my insurance. Guess I'll find out when I go to the pharmacy. Anyone know about this Zubsolv stuff? Are they right?
    Any info greatly appreciated!

    Hey. Here's the link to this site info on Zubsolv -

    https://www.drugs.com/zubsolv.html

    Glad your appt went well and you have your script. Don't worry about having the Zubsolv. It's basically the same as Suboxone with one main difference, the dosage numbers. Zubsolv comes in 5.7 / 1.4mg sublingual tablets. One of those is equal to the 8/2mg Suboxone pills or film strips. It's no problem having the Zubsolv.

    The only thing that sometimes gets difficult is cutting the pills into the doses that are needed. You can usually cut one of those Zubsolv 5.7mg pills into 4 equal pieces with a single edge razor blade and being careful. After that is when it's gets kinda tricky. We usually recommedn the "crushing" method to get the right doses if you can't cut further.

    You would take one of the 4 pieces you've cut from the 5.7mg Zubsolv and place it in a bowl. Using the back of a spoon or similar object you crush the piece into as fine a powder as you can get. Then put the powder onto a piece of paper. You can then separate the pile into even amounts. You can get any dose required that way. Then fold a business card down the middle, put your dose on the card, and pour it under your tongue. It's much easier than it may sound.

    Your first goal is to perfrom a correct induction. Make absolute certain you're in moderate/severe wd's before taking any sub. Use the Cows to make certain you're ready. Get to a score of 26 or higher and you're good to go. I suggest you cut one of the 5.7mg Zubsolv pills into 4 pieces (1.4mg each) in advance while you're not shaky or in wd's. Try to cut one of those pieces in half if you can. If so you'll have 2 pieces of 0.7mg each. If you can't cut them accurately enoughd pour it under your tongue then try the crushing method.

    Just so you know - - - 1.4mg of Zubsolv = 2mg of Suboxone.

    You should begin the induction with HALF of a 1.4mg piece (that's 1mg of Suboxone) and wait 1 full hour. More will be needed so take the same amount again and wait another hour giving it plenty of time to work. If you're not stable with little or no wd's then begin taking smaller doses until you are stable. You'll have to crush the pill for that. Theres also pill crushers available at most any pharmacy that would be beneficial to you.

    I'll help you as much as I'm able. Try to relax as you prepare for the induction.

    Randy

    P.S. Just curious how mnay of the Zubsolv did the doctor give you?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-26-2016 at 03:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Helpmequit611 is offline New Member
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    Hey Randy,

    I'm new to this site, but have read a followed for years.. but is there any way you can message me directly or I can chat with you? You seem to really know your stuff and I could use some suggestions.. thanks for your time brother

  13. #13
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmequit611 View Post
    Hey Randy,

    I'm new to this site, but have read a followed for years.. but is there any way you can message me directly or I can chat with you? You seem to really know your stuff and I could use some suggestions.. thanks for your time brother

    I just posted on your thread. Can;t give out email address's or personal contact info as that's against forum rules. This is a completely anonumous forum so go ahead and let me know what's troubling you on your thread and we'll go from there.

    Randy

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