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Do i need to go through this process again?
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    Default Do i need to go through this process again?

    So on tuesday i went to my sub doc for the first time to battle my percocet/oxy addiction. I was taking 50-60 10/325 mg pills a day at my peak. I couldnt handle my addiction anymore and needed out. So on tuesday 8:45 am was my last oxy dose i took 3 30mg roxy. At 1:15 pm i went to my doc and he said im ready to start induction...was i dumb how did i let this happen!!! So i took the script to the pharmacy and went back to his office to take my first dose at 2 pm. When i arrived home at 5 i was feeling major withdrawl symptoms. I wasnt sure of what to do so i took a half a 8mg sub. My doc perscribed me 3 8mg subs a day. I thought my addiction was so bad maybe i really needed that much. At 7pm i was still not great so i took a quarter of that pill and at 9 the other 1/4. The next morning i awake at 5 and took half a pill then the other half 20 min later. I wasnt feeling great. by 9;30 i needed another 1/3 a pill. this went on till friday when i decided i need to stop breaking these pills and take full doses. I was taking 22 mg up until sat when i assumed this is way too much for me so i went down to 16 mg and felt great. Not quit sure what i should do from here? i am being told i need to go thru the induction stage again and i really hope not and dont know how i can go through that again. Please help...i really appreciate it!

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there. Good to see you started a thread. I replied to your post on Ruth's thread. The reason she suggested going through induction again is because the induction process is very important. As the sub taper plan states, getting started on sub properly can spell the difference between a smooth taper or not-so-smooth taper. Generally, when people are thrown into precipitated WD they need to stop taking sub and re-induct once reaching a 26 on the COWS scale.

    However, you said the WD symptoms have subsided and you're feeling great. It's your call whether or not to re-induct. I will say this though: 16 mg is a very high dose. I would bet you'd feel just fine on half that amount or less. If you don't want to re-induct, you could start your taper from the 16 mg. I'm no expert, but if it were me, I'd probably try to drop even lower before starting the actual taper. Even though you had a very serious oxy habit, 16 mg of sub is really high. No one needs that much. These sub docs are morons.

    So, if you want to start tapering from 16 mg, your first drop of 25% will be to 12 mg. Did you read the taper plan? Ruth posted the link in her reply to you. You need to be stable before every drop. The taper plan calls for a reduction every 4 days -- only if stable. It's ok if you need an extra day or two to stabilize. Listen to your body.

    Hope this helps.
    Kat

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    Kat..hope your enjoying your weekend and i really appreciate you taking your time out to talk to me.
    So heres the thing....alot of withdrawl symptoms i was having other than needing to use the bathroom i discovered was panic and anxiety...yesterday i made that discovery and right away got myself on b12, folic acid and vitamin c...literally in 10 min i felt better. Crazy what your body tells you....my body shows more emotion than i even do. So being that i am so super scared to go through withdrawl again i would rather just stay where i am now. So so far today i took 8 mg in am and thought >> take another 8 mg soon. I figured tomm another 16 mg and then tuesday go down another 25 %. how does that sound?
    thanks for your help...enjoy your day its beautiful out there!

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    That should work just fine. Make sure you're stable at your current dose before dropping. I totally understand not wanting to go through WD again. And if you're feeling a lot better now then I don't see a problem with starting your taper from 16 mg.

    I'm glad you've got a plan in place. Have you given any thought to how you'll stay clean long term? Like NA/AA? Getting clean is the easy part (although it doesn't seem so) but staying clean is hard.

    Hope you have a nice Sun.
    Kat
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    Hey Kat how are you doing?
    So as my long term goes...I plan to start AA this week. Just want to go outside my neighborhood. Mind you no one knows about my addiction. Not my husband or my parents. I mean my husband is very bc he got me started on these. I was going through a really rough time when my brother in law past away at the age of 35 leaving my sister widowed with 4 kids under the age of 10. I had never dealt with death before at that point I had all 4 of my grandparents.
    Any suggestions on whats helped you stay clean? And I see you have joined less than a year ago so congrats on your soberity!!!
    Michele

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Hey Kat how are you doing?
    So as my long term goes...I plan to start AA this week. Just want to go outside my neighborhood. Mind you no one knows about my addiction. Not my husband or my parents. I mean my husband is very bc he got me started on these. I was going through a really rough time when my brother in law past away at the age of 35 leaving my sister widowed with 4 kids under the age of 10. I had never dealt with death before at that point I had all 4 of my grandparents.
    Any suggestions on whats helped you stay clean? And I see you have joined less than a year ago so congrats on your soberity!!!
    Michele
    Hi Michele,

    Actually, I'm not clean quite yet -- I'm still tapering sub. I've been on sub for many years, so I've had to taper very slowly. I'm down to .5 mg. My taper has been a long road with a few "detours" along the way. I had to have back surgery last Oct (which required pain meds afterward) and then I had a short-lived relapse. Both those events set my taper back quite a bit. But I'm finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

    AA meetings help me tremendously. Aside from really wanting to be clean, I credit AA for giving me the strength to not go back to pills. Having the face to face support of people who have gone through the same thing is priceless. My sponsor is awesome. She's a recovering opiate addict/alcoholic. In my opinion, it's within the program that we learn to deal with life again..without turning to pills.

    I often use a technique called "playing the tape to the end" -- which means thinking of what would happen if I were to take just a few pills: the inevitable shame, guilt, and downward spiral. I have too much to lose and I'm not willing to go back to that awful life.

    I'm so sorry to hear about your sister's husband. I can't imagine being left with 4 young children.

    It's great to hear that you'll be attending meetings. Good for you!
    Kat

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Michele welcome to the forums here. I saw on another thread where you tried to send me a pm but I do not know how that works on this site. If you are feeling ok now at 16 mg after a rough start the first couple of days I don't see why you need to reinduct now. 16 mg is way more then anyone needs so I would just follow the taper plan and reduce to 12 mg Tuesday like you were planning to. Not that it matters now since whats done is done but did your Dr know you had taken 90 mg of roxi the morning he started you on subs? Good to read where you plan on attending AA meetings this coming week. My best wishes to you and I hope you keep posting as you will find it is helpful to taper off with others on this site. Talk with you later.

    Alex

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    Kat your an amazing inspiration and your really basically there! Its nice to know you have so much support and people that you can rely on in this world. Thanks so much for your help and i will let you know how tomm goes. I just took my morning 8 mg dose. Tomm down to 6mg twice a day...I can't wait!
    Enjoy your Memorial day!

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    alexnt thanks for responding! Yes i did try to get your opinion on this one....looks like you've been around this forum along time and i figured you could help me with this one. Yes can you believe my doctor knew i took that at 9am...he hooked me up to see my heart rate and said it was beating a bit fast and he can tell i was ready. I was a bit surprised and unfortunately went along with it even though i did read and been in withdrawal before going to him. Right now i am actually on my last day of 16 mg. Tomm i will start am and pm at 6 mg. Cant believe how great i feel after last week. My addiction was so out of control i was taking up to 60 percocet a day i wasnt even enjoying it. It gave me so much anxiety and thats what i keep reminding myself when i say after this process maybe i can have just one or 2. i never want to be in that place again!
    thanks so much for talking to me
    enjoy your memorial day!
    Michele

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    Kat
    Sorry i just thought of another question since i went to go take my vitamins.
    What vitamins do you take?
    I cant get over how these vitamins have helped me taking b12, folic acid with cranberry (i get terrible bv), milk thistle, and vitamin c.
    do you think im missing anything?
    also gotta go get my blood work done this week.
    im very scared....hope my liver is ok!!!
    Michele

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Kat
    Sorry i just thought of another question since i went to go take my vitamins.
    What vitamins do you take?
    I cant get over how these vitamins have helped me taking b12, folic acid with cranberry (i get terrible bv), milk thistle, and vitamin c.
    do you think im missing anything?H
    also gotta go get my blood work done this week.
    im very scared....hope my liver is ok!!!
    Michele
    Hey Michele..

    I take a Balanced B-100 Complex (has B12 & Folic Acid in it), a potent multivitamin/mineral, Fish Oil, Magnesium, Potassium, and Phosphatidylserine (for brain health). I also take L-Tyrosine for energy. It must be taken w/B6 (which is in my B complex) in order to work properly.

    I'm so glad to hear you've leveled out and will be able to drop to 12 mg tomorrow.

    I gotta take my son for a walk. Will check in later.
    Kat

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    Hey Kat
    Hope you enjoyed your walk....its such a nice day very hot which is throwing me for a loop.
    Defiantly waiting for my next dose...i have a party tonite kinda nervous about that.
    I really hope tomm i am ready to lower my dose.
    I just got back from CVS after reading what vitamins you took and boy they barely have any of those. I just got potassuim and Magnesium. Guess tomm when kids are back in school ill go to a health food store to find the rest.
    i was wondering what amount of sub you started your induction at?
    you wrote to me before you had to have surgery....im actually going to a TMJ specialist and very nervous i will need surgery. My jaw pain is horrible and my dentist thinks i will need. I guess ill cross that bridge when we get there.
    Have a great day!
    Michele

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Michele I also used all the vitamins Kath takes during my taper. Another thing while tapering that is helpful is to try and get as much exercise as you can and stay well hydrated. I know you are planning on dropping to 12 mg tomorrow and im sure you will be just fine and will probably actually feel better as you get to lower doses. best wishes and I will talk to you later.

    Alex
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    Michele I also used all the vitamins Kath takes during my taper. Another thing while tapering that is helpful is to try and get as much exercise as you can and stay well hydrated. I know you are planning on dropping to 12 mg tomorrow and im sure you will be just fine and will probably actually feel better as you get to lower doses. best wishes and I will talk to you later.

    Alex

    Good morning alexnt
    Hope you had a nice Memorial weekend!
    Just took my first 12 mg dose and feeling great! Thanks for having faith in me and checking in on me. I'm seeing my sub doc thurs....should I tell him I'm down to 12mg? I think he will be happy for me although he did put me into percipitated withdrawl.
    Have a great day!
    Michele

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Good morning alexnt
    Hope you had a nice Memorial weekend!
    Just took my first 12 mg dose and feeling great! Thanks for having faith in me and checking in on me. I'm seeing my sub doc thurs....should I tell him I'm down to 12mg? I think he will be happy for me although he did put me into percipitated withdrawl.
    Have a great day!
    Michele
    Hi Michele,

    Glad to hear you're doing well. Your doc originally started you on 24 mg, right? Did he mention how long he wanted you at that dose? Did he mention tapering? I'm asking because the majority of sub docs are clueless about prescribing sub. And even worse -- they often tell their patients that they'll have to be on sub "for at least a year" or "for long term maintenance". Having patients come back every month is a huge money maker for them.

    If he's in favor of your taper, then that's great! If the subject wasn't even mentioned, then beware. Bring it up at your next appointment to see how he reacts. If he tries to talk you out of tapering or says you need to be on sub long-term, then you'll know that he doesn't have your best interest in mind.

    My doc was constantly trying to talk me out of tapering..always tying to scare me into staying on sub. Once I had enough sub to last through the end of my taper, I stopped going to see him.

    For your sake, I hope your doc gets on board with your taper. It would be nice to know there's a few good sub docs out there! Lol...

    Kat
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    Hope731 is offline Member
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    I thought in would throw my two cents in. I have a 20-30 mg per day (10s or what ever I can get) and am able to induct very comfortable on 2 mg of sub. It's very strong ish so 16 mg is way overkill. I would bet if you took half that each day you would still feel fine. Good luck!!!!!!

    Hope
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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Good morning alexnt
    Hope you had a nice Memorial weekend!
    Just took my first 12 mg dose and feeling great! Thanks for having faith in me and checking in on me. I'm seeing my sub doc thurs....should I tell him I'm down to 12mg? I think he will be happy for me although he did put me into percipitated withdrawl.
    Have a great day!
    Michele
    Michele I don't know if you should tell him or not. I myself was prescribed 16 mg a day and had to dose at the clinic my first 3 days before I was written my script. I dropped to 12 mg the day I got my script and because I did not know about the taper plan here at first spent to many days at 12 mg before beginning the taper plan. I never told my Dr I was tapering and just built up a stash and after about 6 weeks knew I had enough to taper off and just wrote the clinic to take me off there list of patients and never returned. Some Drs will become upset if you are tapering without them knowing and yours might react badly. If you follow the taper plan and let your Dr think you are still taking 24 mg a day then all you need depending on how often he writes you scripts for 24 mg then you would not need to see him much longer. I think maybe Thursday I might not mention it to him as there is always the small possibility he might dismiss you as a patient. Build up a stash and try to figure how much more you need to taper off and when you have enough let him know then that you are or want to start tapering and see what his reaction is. Your Dr sounds to me after inducting you 5 hrs after you did 90 mg of roxi that he is truly clueless like several sub Drs are about subs. Totally up to you but I just thought I would pass along that some Drs will insist that you need to spend a long period of time on subs before you can begin to taper. Good to read that your feeling fine at 12 mg and I will talk to you later

    Alex

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Michele I just saw on SS thread where you said you were curious about my story. >> be more then happy to post anything you want to know about me here on your thread or if you want you could ask me on my on my thread if you want. Anything you want me to share with you just post it to me and I will share it with you.

    Alex
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    Michele I don't know if you should tell him or not. I myself was prescribed 16 mg a day and had to dose at the clinic my first 3 days before I was written my script. I dropped to 12 mg the day I got my script and because I did not know about the taper plan here at first spent to many days at 12 mg before beginning the taper plan. I never told my Dr I was tapering and just built up a stash and after about 6 weeks knew I had enough to taper off and just wrote the clinic to take me off there list of patients and never returned. Some Drs will become upset if you are tapering without them knowing and yours might react badly. If you follow the taper plan and let your Dr think you are still taking 24 mg a day then all you need depending on how often he writes you scripts for 24 mg then you would not need to see him much longer. I think maybe Thursday I might not mention it to him as there is always the small possibility he might dismiss you as a patient. Build up a stash and try to figure how much more you need to taper off and when you have enough let him know then that you are or want to start tapering and see what his reaction is. Your Dr sounds to me after inducting you 5 hrs after you did 90 mg of roxi that he is truly clueless like several sub Drs are about subs. Totally up to you but I just thought I would pass along that some Drs will insist that you need to spend a long period of time on subs before you can begin to taper. Good to read that your feeling fine at 12 mg and I will talk to you later

    Alex
    Hey ALex
    I see your from Ohio my husband just got back from meeting dsw down there.
    Thanks for your advice....I appreciate it and will not tell him about my tapper.
    He does want to see my every week but I do have a feeling it's for the beginning. He was trying to scare me our first session telling me he will call me for random drug tests. I'm not worried since I have nuthin to fear but is that normal for doctors to say? He is a internal medicine doc so doubt he is thinking bat me.
    Have a great day!
    Michele

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    hey all
    Wow i cant believe im at day 8 without using oxy... do i say im clean...not sure bc of the subs.
    i wrote down my tapper plan and in a month from now i technically if all goes as planned can be off.
    not sure that will happen but fingers crossed.
    I do keep thinking abt using and thinking how my tolerance prob by now has decreased. i used to take about 12 percocet at a time and it didnt even affect me.
    I do and dont miss those days.
    Just finished working out and showered gonna head out soon
    enjoy your day and be strong!
    michele

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Hey ALex
    I see your from Ohio my husband just got back from meeting dsw down there.
    Thanks for your advice....I appreciate it and will not tell him about my tapper.
    He does want to see my every week but I do have a feeling it's for the beginning. He was trying to scare me our first session telling me he will call me for random drug tests. I'm not worried since I have nuthin to fear but is that normal for doctors to say? He is a internal medicine doc so doubt he is thinking bat me.
    Have a great day!
    Michele
    Michele its common at the beginning of being prescribed subs that a Dr at first will want to see there patient every week to start out. My Dr was at a clinic that was for both methadone and subs. First 2 scripts were for 1 week then next 2 were for 2 weeks. That was all I needed to visit there since I started tapering as soon as I got my first script. They made everyone there give a UA before they would write your script and also they said that might call me and have me come in for a random test. I saw where you posted to Ruth and asked her about AA meetings and weather you had to call there or just show up. You just show up. Good to read that you are going to get involved with AA and that you are following Ruths thread. You wondered if you say you are clean since you have not used oxy for 8 days. You actually are not clean because subs are a narcotic but you are using subs as a tool to get clean and before you know it you will be clean. keep up the good job with your taper and keep posting. Will talk to you later.

    Alex
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    hey all just wanted to say hi
    i went down today to 8 mg...feeling a bit strange.
    I feel good but my tmj is acting up and went to chiropractor but getting pain in my chest area which is scaring me.
    I have very bad anxiety which is not good for my recovery.
    hope evreyone has a great weekend!

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    hey all just wanted to say hi
    i went down today to 8 mg...feeling a bit strange.
    I feel good but my tmj is acting up and went to chiropractor but getting pain in my chest area which is scaring me.
    I have very bad anxiety which is not good for my recovery.
    hope evreyone has a great weekend!
    Hi Michele,

    Just wanted to point something out. On 5/27, you dropped to 12 mg, right? You need to stay at each dose for at least 4 full days. Which means, you shouldn't reduce until tomorrow, 5/31.

    Also, a 25% drop from 12 mg is to 9 mg (not 8 mg).

    Hope this helps. Have a good day.
    Kat

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Michele as Kath pointed out 9 mg should be your dose after dropping from 12. At this high of a dose dropping from 8 instead of 9 might not matter though. How did you Dr visit go by the way on Thursday? Did you tell him you were tapering or did you just let him think you were still taking 24 mg. Hope you have a nice weekend and will talk to you later.

    Alex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    Hi Michele,

    Just wanted to point something out. On 5/27, you dropped to 12 mg, right? You need to stay at each dose for at least 4 full days. Which means, you shouldn't reduce until tomorrow, 5/31.

    Also, a 25% drop from 12 mg is to 9 mg (not 8 mg).

    Hope this helps. Have a good day.
    Kat
    Hey Kat
    It funny bc i did think i needed to drop to 9mg but then thought 8 mg...easier just to split on pill in half.
    And i thought you should be lets say on 12 mg for 3 days then the 4th you can reduce 25 %.
    Well thank gd yesterday at 8mg i was feeling great i exercised and am thinking positive.
    thanks for your help and hope you have a great weekend!

    michele

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    Michele as Kath pointed out 9 mg should be your dose after dropping from 12. At this high of a dose dropping from 8 instead of 9 might not matter though. How did you Dr visit go by the way on Thursday? Did you tell him you were tapering or did you just let him think you were still taking 24 mg. Hope you have a nice weekend and will talk to you later.

    Alex
    Hey Alex
    i guess that xtra 1mg i didnt need bc i really felt good yesterday.
    I went to my doctor yesterday and decided i will tell him in taking 16 mg. This way i know i will have enough in case i stop going to him.
    He makes me come once a week, is that standard?
    some people on the page said they went once a month.
    it cant be he wants more money because i paid him 400 for the first month.
    I guess he doesn't want to prescribe too much sub at once.
    Thanks
    Michele

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Hey Kat
    It funny bc i did think i needed to drop to 9mg but then thought 8 mg...easier just to split on pill in half.
    And i thought you should be lets say on 12 mg for 3 days then the 4th you can reduce 25 %.
    Well thank gd yesterday at 8mg i was feeling great i exercised and am thinking positive.
    thanks for your help and hope you have a great weekend!

    michele
    Hi Michele,

    Glad to hear you're feeling well. Dropping to 8 mg rather than 9 mg probably isn't too big a deal since they're both still high doses (like Alex pointed out). But, from here on out, you should stick to the 25% drops for 4 full days (which means you can reduce again on the 5th day if you're stable). It's the best way to ensure a smooth taper. No need to rush.

    It's great that you're exercising! Everyone who gets daily exercise says they feel much better throughout their taper and once they jump.

    Enjoy this beautiful day!
    Kat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-31-2014 at 10:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    Hi Michele,

    Glad to hear you're feeling well. Dropping to 8 mg rather than 9 mg probably isn't too big a deal since they're both still high doses (like Alex pointed out). But, from here on out, you should stick to the 25% drops for 4 full days (which means you can reduce again on the 5th day if you're stable). It's the best way to ensure a smooth taper. No need to rush.

    It's great that you're exercising! Everyone who gets daily exercise says they feel much better throughout their taper and once they jump.

    Enjoy this beautiful day!
    Kat
    Hey Kat
    Thanks for helping me out with this!
    I was also wondering how you cut your pills to the exact amount bc I'm having trouble if splitting a 8mg in half.
    I was actually reading your thread and was curious abt how you said before you we're using the meds and then subs when u ran out...did u always wait till you were in withdrawl till you started the subs?
    Bc it sounded like one day you used and later you were taking subs....you don't have to answer but I was just curious.
    It's amazing what a long way you have come and it's funny you wrote I know ppl must be thinking I used when I was prey but you made it clear you didn't.
    So happy for you and it's really amazing that your here for others!
    Do you go to counseling?
    Is it just me or do the subs increase your appetite?
    I'm defiantly feeling hungrier than I was before....I hope I don't gain weight from the meds

    Hope your enjoying your day
    Michele

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    I also have been very tired lately is that a side affect of the subs?
    Thanks all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    I also have been very tired lately is that a side affect of the subs?
    Thanks all
    Hey there. Sorry, I didn't see your reply to me until now. Yes, sub can definitely cause some drowsiness. Some people find that the tiredness fades once their body adjusts or when they get to lower doses. For me, I usually feel more tired than alert. Sucks. And yes, I've read that sub can increase your appetite so eat as healthy as possible.

    It's getting late and I already took melatonin..lol..better get to bed. I'll be back tomorrow to answer your other questions. Sleep well.

    Kat
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    Last Post: 03-07-2019, 09:10 AM
  2. suboxone weaning process
    By mammaj in forum Need to Talk?
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