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Finally in the process of suboxone taper. Realize I could use some help and support.
  1. #31
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Just droppin by to see how your doing...you reely do have a lot of good advice here....i agree with alex advice on tapering for you......alex was the one who finally broke thru my stubborness and got me to stabelize....i was all over the place

    kat and others helped a lot too....

    You had mentioned mental fog....i think that's normal...and you probably will notice changes as you continue your taper
    and not necassarily all bad...
    while your body adjusts to the new lower dose i have found that lower doses become equally effective and some of that brain fog and zooted feeling goes away....(of course some people including myself actually enjoy the numb emotions and >>>> energy as i call it) getting down from 4mg to 2mg wasnt to bad for me atleast cause i started feeling a bit more down to earth and less drugged
    anyways not trying to write a book here...another note and this may be too much info and i apologize if so...but at higher levels from personal experience and backed by research suboxone lowers testosterone and sex drive. so the lower dose you get to the more likelyhood of increased sex drive and altho i find emotions coming out of the fog...i am looking forward to the increase in testosterone for me.....
    and as far as depression

    tryptophan 5htp and melatonine are all part of the serotonine system and all three mentioned are used in seretonine production..also st johns wart may increase seratonine levels....and tyrosine can help fatigue and dopamine levels

    all over the counter however i order my supplements in pure powder form and weigh them out on a .001mg scale...way cheaper and more pure this way.....just a few ideas for more natural ways that may help depresion

    also for a quick depression fix go to meijer or walmart or gnc and get some expensive real dark choclate..with at least 60percent real cocoa.....ther are chemicals one called theobromine i believe and it is simaler to oxytocin or somethin that releases the same chemicals you feel when your in love or somethin so that can relieve depression in theory as well...
    anyways
    ill check by and see how your doin... you can do it...and it doesn't have to be miserable....ttyl..jay
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  2. #32
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ps ...gettin it mentioned taurine...i had all but given up on this supplement but gettinit swears by this so i decided to give it another go..and i find it helps as she said....um kat suggestes the theanine...which again i had almost given up on as well but now take it almost daily along with taurine with my morning coffee...
    i am a firm beleiver it gets rid of the coffee jitters at least..

    my point is find what works for you and don't write something off if you don't notice benifits rite away...

    they can be subtle and you may think they aren't doing much if you don't know wat to look for...anyways
    you got a lot of support here....just develope a taper plan and find what works for you....hope your doing well ttyl jay

  3. #33
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    I haven't written in awhile as my computer is down. I think I need to bring it down to the Apple store, I sure hope we don't need a new one! The past few days have been okay. I ended up finding the 0.5 mg piece after all, it was on the floor by my cabinet. So after one day on 4, I went back to 4.25 for two days just to see. It might've helped some, I've felt pretty good physically. Today was 4 mg and I plan to stay at 4 for awhile and really adjust. I'm trying to quit the cigs, it hasn't been that long this time around, only a few weeks. They just make me edgy and anxious (and smelly .) Today I had three and I have a disposable e-cig that I used twice. The e-cig is kind of nasty and doesn't do the same thing. My real cig pack is gone now, so I just need to hold off on buying another. I think I might buy CVS nicorette, it's still pretty expensive though. I'd really like to quit smoking! I'm worried if I continue to smoke throughout the taper than quitting the butts would be much harder. Plus, I really just want to be free of all substances. Oh, our couple's therapist gave me a book titled, "The Mindful Way Through Depression." I'll let people know what I think of it. It looks interesting. Have a good night.

  4. #34
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    I haven't written in awhile as my computer is down. I think I need to bring it down to the Apple store, I sure hope we don't need a new one! The past few days have been okay. I ended up finding the 0.5 mg piece after all, it was on the floor by my cabinet. So after one day on 4, I went back to 4.25 for two days just to see. It might've helped some, I've felt pretty good physically. Today was 4 mg and I plan to stay at 4 for awhile and really adjust. I'm trying to quit the cigs, it hasn't been that long this time around, only a few weeks. They just make me edgy and anxious (and smelly .) Today I had three and I have a disposable e-cig that I used twice. The e-cig is kind of nasty and doesn't do the same thing. My real cig pack is gone now, so I just need to hold off on buying another. I think I might buy CVS nicorette, it's still pretty expensive though. I'd really like to quit smoking! I'm worried if I continue to smoke throughout the taper than quitting the butts would be much harder. Plus, I really just want to be free of all substances. Oh, our couple's therapist gave me a book titled, "The Mindful Way Through Depression." I'll let people know what I think of it. It looks interesting. Have a good night.
    Good to see a post from you. It sounds like you're doing well. Just keep following the taper plan, listen to your body, and you will do just fine.

    I have that book you mentioned..I love it. I bought it last year through Amazon. I really think you'll find it useful.

    Take care.
    Kat

  5. #35
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    What a week. I got an ear infection on Monday morning that raged for a few days. Talk about pain, I was so damn uncomfortable. I went to the walk-in clinic Monday morning and have been on antibiotics, but my eardrum still ruptured some time on Tuesday night I think. Anyhow, I can't hear much out of my right ear and my head still feels really plugged and gross. My body just doesn't feel right, maybe it's the antibiotics. It's been a tough week. I really hope to start feeling better physically this week. Every day for a few hours before I take my sub I feel really >>>>>>. I really hope that doesn't continue, it should be more level considering the half-life, right? I've been at 4 mg for about 10 days. I'm considering taking it in the morning instead of the afternoon, but I really want to be able to sleep okay. Man, I really just want to get off this stuff, if jumping now were feasible I'd be more tempted, but I know that would be a looooong time of feeling like crud. Ugh.

  6. #36
    auburn girl is offline Member
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    Be patient, Max. It'll be time before you know it. I know it's hard doing this while you have other things going on (ear infection, life....). Just keep on reducing when you're ready and hang in there. I'm glad you checked in.

    Have a good day!
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  7. #37
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    Well, I think that my body is finally really adjusting to the 4 mg dose. My GI tract has calmed down and my body is feeling better in general. I see my pdoc on Friday and I plan to discuss how to proceed down from 4. My ear is still all plugged up and funky, but I see an ENT doc tomorrow. I'd like to have my hearing back before tapering more. This forum has been a big help; I've received some great ideas and suggestions. One of the BEST has been for restless legs, a homeopathic sold at Walmart under brand "Hyland" called Restful Legs. It helps my whole body feel better when I have that "physical anxiousness." It really does work against something that I have always dreaded with opiate WD! I've also been taking L-tyrosine in the morning with my coffee, it seems to help me wake up and have more energy. And finally, even though I kind of scoffed at it when I read it, a nice hot bath has been just what I needed at times to help my whole body and mind relax. Just a few things that I've been doing, in addition to trying to eat as much fruit and vegetables as possible. The healthy eating seems to help a lot too. I just wanted to relay some of the tips that I found particularly useful. Next week I think I will continue to taper, I don't want to become too complacent. Also, overall, I haven't been feeling as tired as I was on the full 8 mg strip so that is a real blessing. Trying to remain positive, it is definitely worth it to finally start to purge the opiates from my system, as hard as it can be.

  8. #38
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    Well, I think that my body is finally really adjusting to the 4 mg dose. My GI tract has calmed down and my body is feeling better in general. I see my pdoc on Friday and I plan to discuss how to proceed down from 4. My ear is still all plugged up and funky, but I see an ENT doc tomorrow. I'd like to have my hearing back before tapering more. This forum has been a big help; I've received some great ideas and suggestions. One of the BEST has been for restless legs, a homeopathic sold at Walmart under brand "Hyland" called Restful Legs. It helps my whole body feel better when I have that "physical anxiousness." It really does work against something that I have always dreaded with opiate WD! I've also been taking L-tyrosine in the morning with my coffee, it seems to help me wake up and have more energy. And finally, even though I kind of scoffed at it when I read it, a nice hot bath has been just what I needed at times to help my whole body and mind relax. Just a few things that I've been doing, in addition to trying to eat as much fruit and vegetables as possible. The healthy eating seems to help a lot too. I just wanted to relay some of the tips that I found particularly useful. Next week I think I will continue to taper, I don't want to become too complacent. Also, overall, I haven't been feeling as tired as I was on the full 8 mg strip so that is a real blessing. Trying to remain positive, it is definitely worth it to finally start to purge the opiates from my system, as hard as it can be.
    Max sorry to see where you are having problems with your ear and hopefully the Dr you see tomorrow can help you out. Good to read though that your GI tract has calmed down and your body is feeling better. I previously mentioned to you about how Dr >>>>>>> tapers his patients who have been on subs for long periods of time. He would next have you go from 4 mg to 3.5. that would be about 12% drop which is only about half of the taper plan on here reduction but since you have been on subs for over 6 years small drops do make sense to me. Best wishes to you on your ear healing up and on your next drop.

    Alex

  9. #39
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    Well, I have some encouraging news for today! As much as I have been feeling kind of depressed the past couple days, including today, I almost forgot to take my suboxone! That hasn't happened for awhile, at least since I've been down to 4 mg. What it means, I guess, is that instead of spending the last few hours up to 3 pm feeling like I need the subs (as it had gotten to the point where taking it makes me feel better an hour or so afterwards, I don't care what anybody says and I understand half-life ) I am maybe finally really adjusting to the lower dose, like I was for years at 8 mg. Phew! Even though I went much slower than every 4 days, I probably still went a little fast, considering the time I've been on them. I went from 8 to 4 in about 6-7 weeks. We'll see how the next few days go and then maybe I'll try 3.5. My therapist recommended doing the one day on 3.5, one day back to 4, two days on 3.5, and so forth, basically how people do it when they jump. It might not be a bad idea; she says that I don't need to suffer to do this. That would be great, but I also know there is a price to be paid for having opiates in your system for 6+ years. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for all the words of encouragement.

  10. #40
    auburn girl is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    Well, I have some encouraging news for today! As much as I have been feeling kind of depressed the past couple days, including today, I almost forgot to take my suboxone! That hasn't happened for awhile, at least since I've been down to 4 mg. What it means, I guess, is that instead of spending the last few hours up to 3 pm feeling like I need the subs (as it had gotten to the point where taking it makes me feel better an hour or so afterwards, I don't care what anybody says and I understand half-life ) I am maybe finally really adjusting to the lower dose, like I was for years at 8 mg. Phew! Even though I went much slower than every 4 days, I probably still went a little fast, considering the time I've been on them. I went from 8 to 4 in about 6-7 weeks. We'll see how the next few days go and then maybe I'll try 3.5. My therapist recommended doing the one day on 3.5, one day back to 4, two days on 3.5, and so forth, basically how people do it when they jump. It might not be a bad idea; she says that I don't need to suffer to do this. That would be great, but I also know there is a price to be paid for having opiates in your system for 6+ years. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for all the words of encouragement.
    Great job, max. When I was up at high doses I went down pretty slow, too. Is your therapist a sub dr? Or just a therapist? I'm no expert but I kinda don't agree with that method. I think the people here would back me up, too. Going up and down on your dose just kinds screws your brain up trying to adjust to a certain dose. It took me a couple years to learn that. Of course do whatever you are comfortable with. And you are right, no need to suffer. But remember we've been on opiates for years, so we're gonna feel SOMETHING. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Thanks for checking in and best of luck to you.
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  11. #41
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    Hey Auburn Girl! Thanks for the response. I agree with you; my initial reaction to my therapist's advice was along those same lines. Once I step down (a nice small, manageable step) I may as well ride it out and wait for my body to adjust. A lot of up and down, or back and forth, would probably do more to prolong the stabilizing without really preventing much of the WD symptoms. I guess. I'm not sure, but I do know that if I feel too awful bad, I can always take just a tad more, without going higher than what my previous stable dose was and that does help. So, rather than planning on taking 3.5 one day and back to 4 the next, I will just wait and see how I feel. I am sure that I'll just plow thru on the 3.5. Like you said, after being on subs for years, we are going to feel something when we taper down. That's just how it is. And thankfully, all the great tips I have gotten on here really do help. I am finally starting to get into the habit of exercising again. If I can keep that up, I plan on stepping down to 3.5 soon. Maybe tomorrow. Thank you again for the reply, it feels good knowing that other people are reading my posts and rooting for me.
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  12. #42
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Max exercising while tapering will pay off for you. I read what your therapist suggested and am glad to see you are not going to try that. I would just drop to 3.5 and get good and stable there and continue to taper down.

    Alex
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  13. #43
    auburn girl is offline Member
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    I think that's a good idea, Max. I hope it goes ok for you. And yes, exercising will help. I exercised a lot during my taper and I had a fairly easy time with it. I'm almost certain that the exercise helped with that. I didn't even feel the drops until I got to 1mg and under.

  14. #44
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    Hi Alex, thank you for the posts. I've noticed that you have posted steadily through-out the time I've been on here and I really do appreciate it, again: it's just nice to know that other people are out there rooting or praying or whatever it is, just wishing me good will. I decided to go ahead and try 3.5 today, I've been feeling much better lately and I want to go ahead and continue, lest I get complacent. Overall, my body really does feel much better now that I am taking 4 mg instead of the 8 I was taking for years. I am not nearly as tired and fatigued in the afternoon, I actually feel like I can do things without it taking monumental effort and will.

    Auburn Girl, thank you very much for the advice, I am so glad that you read my post and gave me your feedback on the dosing. Exercise is definitely key, it is so good for my mental health (and physical, of course.) Do you have any other good tips for me, especially as I get lower in dose? Considering that going from 8 to 4 gradually like I did was no walk in the park, I am a little concerned about what awaits me. I know in the end though, that it will be well worth it. This is a necessary endeavour, in my opinion. Thanks again for all the support!! God bless.

  15. #45
    auburn girl is offline Member
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    Hey. How are you feeling today at the 3.5?

    Hmmm. Tips. I relied on people here to help me. Posting helps. I see your point, if you've had trouble now you may have more trouble at the end. Exercise, lots of water, eat healthy (no junk, meats, veggies...), a multi vitamin, I took super B complex (with food) for energy (not sure it helped, tho), sleepy time tea at night, stay busy and keep your mind occupied so you're not thinking about it, and I guess my best advice is to just roll with it. I know, it sucks. You just gotta roll with the punches and know that the discomfort is necessary and worth it in the end. Accept that you feel a little $hitty, and remind yourself that it won't last forever. I still have to remind myself of that every day.

    My main complaints were sweating, anxiety, cold/hot flashes, chills, being crazy emotional (extreme ups and downs), and no sleep. I'm still struggling with some of those. I had (still have to) take a prescription med, trazadone, for sleep.

    Go and read some of "gettinitoverwith"'s thread and the one started by "jayryan". I think Gettin' posted a lot of what she did and they both talk about vitamins and things you can take and how it actually helps you/your brain to heal. A lot of it went over my head, though. Haha. Very scientific stuff.
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  16. #46
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    It's great to see that you dropped to 3.5 mg. You're making good progress!

    I agree with Auburn. Stay hydrated, eat well, exercise. Popular supplements that seem to help, aside from what she already mentioned: Taurine or Theanine for anxiety, a good fish oil, phosphydlsterine (brain health). Meditation and deep breathing exercises work great, too. NA/AA meetings will make a big difference. Addiction counseling.

    How have you been?
    Kat
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  17. #47
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    I've been meaning to post for awhile now. Things are going well. I dropped down to 3 mg for about 5-6 days and then 2.75 yesterday and today. I feel ok; I have been having trouble staying asleep though. I wake up a lot during the night and sometimes can't get back to sleep. I've been taking some expired melatonin on the nights I know I might have trouble sleeping. Should I just buck up and buy some stuff that isn't expired? My muscles haven't been bothering me as much with that tingly, nervous, restless feeling. I have been doing some resistance training a few nights a week, so they're sore, but that beats the restless feeling anyday, in my opinion. I am going to try breathing meditation more often, hopefully it will help with the inevitable melancholy that sets in. 2 mg, here I come! (Soon enough, hopefully )

  18. #48
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    I feel pretty >>>>ty today. I probably went a little too fast lately on the taper and now it is catching up with me. I guess I'll need to stay at 2.5 for awhile; I want to get down to 2 where I plan to stay for a month or so but my body is telling me to slow down. I finally got some calories down with protein shake and an apple, hopefully that will help. I munched on granola with my coffee this morning, but that isn't much of a breakfast. I went for a run yesterday and then worked out my back last night. I figured I'd sleep well, but it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. Damn too much sleep, or lack of it, it's either one or the other it seems. I feel so sluggish, but I just realized I forgot my L-tyrosine this morning. That may have something to do with it, so I took it just now, better late than never. I highly recommend L-tyrosine to anyone who struggles with the heavy body feeling. My in-laws are coming over for a barbecue today, I will probably take my sub a little early and that should help me make it through. I could always take 2.75, but I'd rather not go back up a step. I've done it a couple times when I really had to; I'll see how I feel in a couple hours. Damn opiates!

  19. #49
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey there. I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Believe me, I understand since I've been on sub for so long, too. A sub taper is much more difficult for people like us who have taken this nasty drug for so many years. Sometimes I just wanna scream because every day is a struggle.

    I didn't read back through your last few posts...how much time did you take between drops?

    Kat

  20. #50
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    I'm hanging in there, I guess. Feeling a little bit discouraged as I realize how difficult these last couple milligrams could be, hopefully not as bad as I think. I was at 2.5 for a week and feeling better, so I dropped to 2.25 on Sunday. Today, Wednesday, I woke up feeling pretty uncomfortable. I took a couple "Restful Legs" tablets and tried to make myself eat. I worked out really hard yesterday, which felt great at the time. Today, I've just been tired and sore and cranky. Hopefully, tomorrow will be better. I'd like to just drop down to 2 mg sooner than later as I plan to be at 2 for awhile. I think it's going to take some time to really catch up and start feeling energetic and decent again, but hopefully lots of exercise will help. According to Dr. >>>>>>>, just 12 minutes a day of exercise with your heart-rate above 120 can produce endorphins that will help cut time to recovery from WD in half. (Of course, he said even more than that is good too.) It's gonna take awhile to do this still. I just want it done, I want my self back.

  21. #51
    laydee is offline Junior Member
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    Hi max, I saw this thread n wanted to pop in and say hi. Hope ur doing well tonight. I responded to u on my thread but wanted to show some support on yours as well.good luck my friend. Your doing great. I have the anxiety n depression also . I know how u feel. One day at a time is all we can do. Ttys jaimie

  22. #52
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    I'm hanging in there, I guess. Feeling a little bit discouraged as I realize how difficult these last couple milligrams could be, hopefully not as bad as I think. I was at 2.5 for a week and feeling better, so I dropped to 2.25 on Sunday. Today, Wednesday, I woke up feeling pretty uncomfortable. I took a couple "Restful Legs" tablets and tried to make myself eat. I worked out really hard yesterday, which felt great at the time. Today, I've just been tired and sore and cranky. Hopefully, tomorrow will be better. I'd like to just drop down to 2 mg sooner than later as I plan to be at 2 for awhile. I think it's going to take some time to really catch up and start feeling energetic and decent again, but hopefully lots of exercise will help. According to Dr. >>>>>>>, just 12 minutes a day of exercise with your heart-rate above 120 can produce endorphins that will help cut time to recovery from WD in half. (Of course, he said even more than that is good too.) It's gonna take awhile to do this still. I just want it done, I want my self back.
    Max sorry to read you are feeling a little discouraged at the moment. When I tapered off of subs and jumped 18 months ago there was another member here who was also tapering and jumped 10 days after me. Plzfreeme is her member name and she had been on subs for a few years. I think she was on 16 mg for a long period of time before she decided to taper off. I remember her posting that once she started tapering she did not have much of a problem going from 16 mg to 1 mg. It was under 1 mg that she got stuck for awhile and if I remember right she was stuck because of fear. She kept thinking because she had been on subs for a long period of time that when she jumped she was going to have bad WD. I do remember she exercised quite a lot and I do remember she tapered to a low amount and jumped off she did not go thru any bad WD. She kept working right up to the time she jumped and it was at Christmas time and besides some small symptoms if I remember right she was ok. She is still clean today. Hope you are stabilizing at 2.25 and will talk to you later.

    Alex

  23. #53
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    Hey guys, thank you for the posts. It's been a really tough week. Honestly, I think it might be partly due to the fact that I slipped up and got a little bit of pot from my sister when I was visiting her last weekend. It just looked and smelled so damn good, medicinal for sure. It was a little less than a gram probably, but I stretched it out over a few days and that was after smoking with her on Saturday and Sunday. I've felt really sluggish, no motivation, and it's been really difficult to eat anything. Kind of like what I feel usually during the drop-downs, just a lot worse. Not sure if it's because I am getting to the lower doses, or if there is some WD from the pot too. When I used to smoke regularly and run out, this is kinda how I would feel. I'm really pissed at myself about it; I want to be clean. I talked to my therapist about it yesterday, but I still need to tell my wife. She won't be happy. I know that pot smoking is relatively benign for some people; I'm just not one of those people. I spent years smoking it on a daily+ basis before "graduating" to the harder drugs. For me, I just should not. Why the hell do I do it anyway? This just confirms for me that I need to find some NA meetings and get back into the program. Wish me luck and thanks for listening.

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