Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 53
Like Tree21Likes
Finally in the process of suboxone taper. Realize I could use some help and support.
  1. #1
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seabrook, NH
    Posts
    23

    Default Finally in the process of suboxone taper. Realize I could use some help and support.

    I've been taking suboxone for about six and a half years and I am really ready to try and get clean. I've been taking 8 mg since pretty much the beginning. I think I started at 12 mg maybe, and then found a base at 8 mg. I'm not sure, to be honest, I just know I've been on a steady diet of 8 mg for a long, long time. I fear that my body has adjusted and in order to really beat my depression I need to either increase the dose or taper off. Increasing is just putting off the inevitable and making it harder in the long run. I'm highly motivated to continue this taper.

    Right now I am taking 5 mg, its been two plus days of 5 so far. I went down just a mg at a time and waited 5-6 days at 7 and then 10-11 days at 6. I have definately been feeling it, that old familiar nemesis. But it really hasn't been bad at all, especially when I think of the days of CT. I am happy to say it is manageable, just uncomfortable. I am going thru the first part of the physical on this step down and decided to pick up some loperamide at the grocery store as I needed to buy some apples and bananas. I also got several fresh vegetables to cook up in the next few days. It makes sense that really trying to eat right would help. I just haven't been able to motivate to exercise, I told myself today that if I have not started exercising on a schedule by the time I'm down to 4 mg than I can't continue until I am. Hopefully, this motivation to get off subs will transfer over to starting exercise back up! I want it so bad, but right now I really fear the anxiety and depression, especially at lower levels. The anxiety just sucks, I'm not used to the anxiety. Depression is unfortunately pretty familiar. I don't know if that makes it harder, or easier, honestly. I am just going to go real slow, I guess. I felt good for a couple days on 6 finally, so I went down to 5. Planning on a long break from the taper at 4 mg. It's half my strip and easy, plus going lower honestly intimidates me. If anyone has a second to give me advice or encouragement; I'd be greatful. Thanks for reading at least.

  2. #2
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Hey! I am also in the final stages of a long taper. I went from 16 mgs down to 3 mgs and havent had to many issues. I actually feel the same at 3 as I did at 16. I have been tapering veeeery slowly though. I to worry about what its going to be like once I made the jump off. There have been times in the past where I didnt follow my taper properly and run out of meds before my next appt and had a rough few days so I know for me personally, cold turkey or jumping to soon wouldnt work for me. Slow and steady wins the race they say! I can say the jump down the last few months have been easy and I never even noticed the drop. I have an amazing sub doctor who is letting me go at my own pace and thats a huge relief knowing I dont have to freak thinking I am running out of time before I am out of meds and have no more options and need to taper quickly. Its a tough mental battle at times but I am happy with the pace and my progress! I have been on subs for long time. I try not to obsess over tapering every month and just go with it and I think that helps alot.

    Subs saved my life and I havent had a relapse throughout my whole treatment and gone back to oxycontin. I dont even think about oxys or any pills at all. Zero cravings for all these years has been wonderful. It gave me the time I needed to completely turn my life around and get far away from the drug buddies and drug life. I think a positive attitude and not obsessing about being on subs or getting off subs helps alot. I never felt foggy, high or abused subs. I just feel normal on them. I take my dose in the morning and forget about it till the next day. It will be nice to be off them and every month I get closer!

  3. #3
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    I wanted to add, when I initially drop down at the beginning of every month, if I do happen to feel icky the first week, I dont panic or get anxious and blame it all on withdrawals. I chock it up to a bad day, or to many hours on my feet and take some advil or a nap and feel better. I have a physically demanding job so its easy to say, 9 hours standing and moving around constantly can make ya achy and feeling run down. I think I would go nuts if I sat and obsessed about how icky I feel in that moment and thinking its withdrawals. Thats the mental part of it for me. I blame it on the hours of physical labor I did that morning, take a rest, and feel better after a hot shower, a meal and some tv time =) huge help during the taper process!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    I've been taking suboxone for about six and a half years and I am really ready to try and get clean. I've been taking 8 mg since pretty much the beginning. I think I started at 12 mg maybe, and then found a base at 8 mg. I'm not sure, to be honest, I just know I've been on a steady diet of 8 mg for a long, long time. I fear that my body has adjusted and in order to really beat my depression I need to either increase the dose or taper off. Increasing is just putting off the inevitable and making it harder in the long run. I'm highly motivated to continue this taper.

    Right now I am taking 5 mg, its been two plus days of 5 so far. I went down just a mg at a time and waited 5-6 days at 7 and then 10-11 days at 6. I have definately been feeling it, that old familiar nemesis. But it really hasn't been bad at all, especially when I think of the days of CT. I am happy to say it is manageable, just uncomfortable. I am going thru the first part of the physical on this step down and decided to pick up some loperamide at the grocery store as I needed to buy some apples and bananas. I also got several fresh vegetables to cook up in the next few days. It makes sense that really trying to eat right would help. I just haven't been able to motivate to exercise, I told myself today that if I have not started exercising on a schedule by the time I'm down to 4 mg than I can't continue until I am. Hopefully, this motivation to get off subs will transfer over to starting exercise back up! I want it so bad, but right now I really fear the anxiety and depression, especially at lower levels. The anxiety just sucks, I'm not used to the anxiety. Depression is unfortunately pretty familiar. I don't know if that makes it harder, or easier, honestly. I am just going to go real slow, I guess. I felt good for a couple days on 6 finally, so I went down to 5. Planning on a long break from the taper at 4 mg. It's half my strip and easy, plus going lower honestly intimidates me. If anyone has a second to give me advice or encouragement; I'd be greatful. Thanks for reading at least.
    Hi there and welcome!

    I'm still in the process of my taper...got one skip day under my belt working towards another. My last dose was at .0612 (half of .125mg which is like 1/16th of 1 mg....something like that Anyways I started from 2 mg...but I've heard from 2 mg to 8mg you don't feel AS big of a difference tapering. Just the lower doses get a wee bit trickier BUT not hard by far. You can do anything you put your mind to remember that What you want will happen, its just up to you in the end to follow through. A word of advice, don't let fear of the unknown stop you. You never know how strong you really are until you have no choice then to be otherwise. Just tell yourself quitting is not an option. Throw that out the window quitting the taper that is Quitting Subs is an Option! A lot of people can vouch they felt like Suboxone actually made them feel depressed. I surely know it did for me. So stay positive and just chalk up to the depression to the suboxone. NOT withdrawals. Once you get this stuff out your system the sun will be brighter and life will be happier! You'll be free. Whats not to be happy about. Check out some of our threads. Theres some long time users on here that broke free. I never saw a complaint about the PAWS more so happy to be off the stuff and living life! How you think you feel, you will feel. Mind over matter. Just think of how worse off you could feel and keep pushing through. Everyday gets easier! Hope you stick around and the threads help ease your anxiety! Its a lot easier then you want to believe! Good luck!
    iloerose likes this.

  5. #5
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    So Calif
    Posts
    2,791

    Default

    There's a taper plan that most of us use to get off subs. I'm posting from my phone so I can't post the link to the plan right now, but I will soon. It was written by retired member Robert_325.

    To give you an idea: the plan calls for a reduction of 25% at each drop. You only drop when you're stable. Stable means having little to no WD symptoms. For example, if you're currently at 5 mg, your next drop will be to 3.75 mg, and so on.

    The plan recommends reducing every 4 days. However, long-time sub users need to taper at a slower pace. Some people drop every 7 days. It depends how quickly you stabilize at each new dose. You'll know when it's time to reduce each dose. Listen to your body.

    Exercise, eating well and staying hydrated are key during a taper.

    Kat

  6. #6
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,016

    Default

    Welcome MadMax and Raven! If you wanted some motivational help, Raven and Gettin' sure have put that down! That's the attitude to have: stay positive. Getting off subs CAN be done. Kat gives the best advice and I have the taper plan for you guys:

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

    Take a read and see what you think. One thing I heard from both of you and it's true that with sub less can be more. Subs have a very long half life. Raven: I suggest you start your own thread so you have a journal of your taper, plus it will be easier to respond individually if you have questions. MadMax: take heart, opiates hijack so many of the natural chemical processes, that depression can actually be caused by the drug. EXERCISE. Drink plenty of water, pure fruit juices. Stay positive, you couldn't have two better taper buddies on here, and you will find plenty of support here from Kat, Alex, Sharks, and they really know their stuff. Get set... Get ready... You can do this.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    Iwantoff2013 likes this.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Welcome MadMax and Raven! If you wanted some motivational help, Raven and Gettin' sure have put that down! That's the attitude to have: stay positive. Getting off subs CAN be done. Kat gives the best advice and I have the taper plan for you guys:

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

    Take a read and see what you think. One thing I heard from both of you and it's true that with sub less can be more. Subs have a very long half life. Raven: I suggest you start your own thread so you have a journal of your taper, plus it will be easier to respond individually if you have questions. MadMax: take heart, opiates hijack so many of the natural chemical processes, that depression can actually be caused by the drug. EXERCISE. Drink plenty of water, pure fruit juices. Stay positive, you couldn't have two better taper buddies on here, and you will find plenty of support here from Kat, Alex, Sharks, and they really know their stuff. Get set... Get ready... You can do this.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    Hey Rose sorry to butt in...lol. I was hoping to find you somewhere! Could you peep in on my thread and help me out with my question?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GettinItOverWith View Post
    Hey Rose sorry to butt in...lol. I was hoping to find you somewhere! Could you peep in on my thread and help me out with my question?
    PS: Rose is pretty awesome also shes been there done that and got the T shirt!

  9. #9
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seabrook, NH
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Wow, I told myself not to expect a response today. You guys are great! Thank you. I have been reading other threads for a few days and today I decided I really needed to check in. I've been feeling >>>>>> and I need to stay positive. I can do this. I've read Robert_325's taper plan and I like it. I've dropped down a little lower than that, first time 12.5%, then about 14%. A few days ago was almost 17% and I think I will keep it less than that from here. I will also need more time on each dose, I am sure of that! The hardest thing is that this is a marathon, to say the least. Compared to the 5k of oxys or one-miler for >>>>>>. Not nearly as intense, but it still really gets to me.
    Raven, thanks for the quick response. It's nice to know I am not alone, even though I know that, it is cool to really know that. I'm glad that you have a job to distract you. Physical work is the best, really. I had a job for a few years as a sub-contractor and it did feel good to put in a hard day's work. I miss that in my career choice. Right now, I am unemployed and it is a long day. It gives me lots of time to notice how I feel, unfortunately.
    Gettin, thank you for the words of encouragement. It definately does help to hear about people feeling better once off subs. I'm pretty convinced that these haven't been helping with my constant fatigue, low level of energy and depression. I've tried everything with my doctor to treat it. Last year, I did ECT (electro-convulsive therapy) in two different sets of 8-10 treatments. Once in the spring and again in the fall. It was the second set in the fall where I lost my job. I had used all of my FMLA leave between the illness and then to get it treated. They wouldn't let me work while I was getting the treatments and then rejected my request for leave, knowing that it was to treat my mental illness! I was so pissed off at them, all I want is to get better. I hate being unemployed, it isn't good for anyone. But it is ridiculous how hard it is to find a full-time position right now. I've kind of given up and I am instead focusing on getting this monkey off my back. It's time.

  10. #10
    auburn girl is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South!
    Posts
    218

    Default

    I just want to say welcome Max and Raven! You will find lots of advice, support, and encouragement here. I myself am down to .75 from 8-12mgs of suboxone a day. And I am so far still feeling great. Just like Raven said, sub saved my life, but now it is time to get off. If I can do this, anyone can. We can't be on this stuff forever. I wish both of you the best of luck and look forward to hearing how it goes for y'all. (Sorry, I'm from the South!)

    Ps. Max, I wonder if some of the depression will go away when you get lower/and ultimately get off the sub. It's possible?!
    MadMax03801 likes this.

  11. #11
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    I have found keeping busy on my days off helps keep my mind off the whole process. For me, what I discovered is if I obsessed about being on subs, getting off subs, etc. Then it made me have bad anxiety and that made me feel worse about everything. We can go slow together and keep each other in check! I had a great day today and feel really good. I read through the posts on this site and was really encouraged by peoples taper success stories. One more day down in this process! We CAN do it! Night all!
    Iwantoff2013 likes this.

  12. #12
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Max! You out there? Just checking in to see how your day is so far. I had a burst of energy last night (refuse to call it insomnia). My body needs to figure out that energy bursts need to happen when I get OUT of bed, not in it! Lol had a short 5 am to 11 am shift today so I have the rest of the day to blow. Nap is on the list for sure! Got maybe 3 hours of sleep before work. How is your depression? Hopefully your having a good day so far =) maybe this will put a smile on your face, I literally work at a zoo as an animal care specialist. Today, all reptile enclosures get a deep clean (every Thursday), and a python wasnt to happy I had to move her lazy ass to a holding tank while I cleaned her house. She "musked" me right in the face. I had to smell snake poop all morning because it got in my hair. It smells awful! So if your day isnt to good, just think, its better than smelling like snake poop!
    iloerose likes this.

  13. #13
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,016

    Default

    Hey Max: I hope your day is going well. Keeping as busy as you can and really trying to push yourself to motivate outdoors and walk, even if it's down the block a few steps and back, doesn't have to be anything big. Just get out an notice the new spring, count the cars or the cracks in the sidewalk. Even mild exercise will help both with the depression and anxiety. But I know the feeling. You know the old physics thing: a body in motion stays in motion and a body at rests stays at rest, or something like that. I know it's getting the "push" and it sounds easier than it is, but it will help.

    For the lethargy people take L-tyrosine with b-6 (got to have the b-6 to metabolize the L-t. I still use a product that has the L-t: Boost by Irwin Naturals. For anxiety try serene l-theanine or just valerian root. I also use Yogi brand Kava Stress Relief tea. Please don't go by "days" as far as dropping. Go by how you feel, let your body be your guide. Being stable before a drop is crucial and will help in the days to come when you get to lower doses. Slow and steady wins this race. If you do this right, you do it once. We have come to believe that people who have been on as long as you have really benefit by a slower taper. I see that you are doing that. Have you read Kat's thread? Iwantoff is the name and the thread is PLEASE HELP ME -subutex taper. Also Ken2727's Own Thread. It says my screen name, but he needed help at the time to make the thread.

    I hope your day is going well.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

    Raven: You are the sunshine peeping through the clouds. I had to laugh about the snake, you must have SOME stories to tell :0
    Iwantoff2013 and MadMax03801 like this.

  14. #14
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Ah yes, I have many stories that would have you in tears. Working with animals has taught me to be prepared for anything, and laugh when you get covered in poop. Cant tell you how many times I've had to run into a store after work and overheard customers behind me in line turn to their friend and ask "do you smell something funny?", and I crack up inside because I know its me! Hahaha! Lmao!

    It sure helps my mental attitude being able to just roll with life and LAUGH! Laughter is the best medicine and so is spending time with animals. I encourage folks who are going through this process to volunteer at a shelter. Its amazing how powerful animals are for your mental health. They dont judge and make great listeners. As a matter of fact, there are a few lizards out there who know all my thoughts and secrets! =)
    iloerose and MadMax03801 like this.

  15. #15
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seabrook, NH
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Hi guys, I wrote this last night and then the computer froze! I was too frustrated so I came back to it this morning and realized that the auto-save kept most of my post intact!! Neat, I like it. So, the following is yesterday:

    Well, today actually turned out pretty good, especially considering how it started. I woke up earlier than usual this morning, which usually is a good thing. I've been trying to get up earlier. Of course, this morning I really wanted to keep sleeping because my legs were hurting and I felt the WD. Nothing terrible, but still uncomfortable. Once I got out of bed and got moving I did start to feel a little better. I kept pretty busy today and made sure to eat a good lunch. I took 2 mg before lunch and that helped the afternoon quite a bit. I am working towards getting back to a single dose per day. At the beginning of the taper I was even dosing three times a day, but I've read here and it makes sense that I should try to get used to once a day. I'm sure it will make it easier mentally, especially once I get lower. With some encouragement from my neighbor I was able to make it outside today. It was just wonderful, almost 70 degrees!! The sun was bright and the sky was blue. I love those days. I actually bagged a couple bags of leaves too. This feels good because since the snow has melted I've been looking at the windswept piles in the backyard and feeling guilty. I did not have the energy to take care of much of the leaves last fall. Anyhow, after the leaves I went and got some things we need at the grocery store and when I got back my wife and child were home. I also have smoked a couple less cigarettes today. I started smoking again about 10 days ago and the past few days I was smoking more than ever. I can't tell if the cigarettes really help or just make me more anxious, it's hard to tell sometimes. Thank you Iloerose and Raven. It's nice to be in touch with people who understand the feeling. Iloerose, I recognize your name from some other threads I've been reading through, with Kat, and Alex and some others. I enjoyed hearing about the snake, Raven. My wife calls me the "animal whisperer" because dogs and cats tend to like me when we meet. I do have a soft spot for animals.

    Hopefully tomorrow will be even better. A few more days of 5 mg and then I'll consider going down to 4.5 or 4. Once at 4, I plan to stay there for a couple weeks and take some real time adjusting. Thanks for the responses. It helps to know that there are people out there who know how I feel. A Radiohead lyric comes to mind, "You do it to yourself, you do, and that's why it really hurts." Through-out all my therapy I've been learning to forgive myself, I don't know why it is so damn difficult, but it is...

  16. #16
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Max! You're post was fantastic. Sounds like you had a good day. I found doing things in small chunks helps me alot. The more small chunks you do, the bigger the progress. I have had days when the to do list seemed so daunting. I would pick one thing and get it done, then like an hour later do another and before I knew it, I was like "dang! Look at everything I did without realizing it".

    I smoke too. Want to q

  17. #17
    raven14 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Ug, having trouble with my tablet. Posts keep getting cut off and posting when I didnt even hit the post button. I wanna quit smoking someday too! Gotta log off and clear the cache in my tablet. Ttyl!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Hey Max

    The electronic therapy my mother tried. That is some scary stuff. Idk if any of your loved ones told you how you reacted to it but my Mom was out of it. Scared the living >>>> out of me. I thought I'd never get the normal her back. It didn't work for her. Honestly all the depression meds out there and treatments I don't really believe in them. Except for some good old fashioned counseling...talking with a good therapist. I think the meds only aggravate symptoms and its like your a science experiment. Hit and miss with nasty side effects. So on top of being depressed...you have other ailments to add to the mix making you feel even worse. To me its not worth it. I think what helps more is really trying to pin point what is causing unhappiness and making changes. Holistic therapy, like finding things you enjoy and making time for them. I really hope its a side effect making you feel down and you will come out of this feeling refreshed and renewed. I have a hunch that it is. Depression is natural....its telling us something is not working in our lives, until we figure that out and try to change it, no pill is gonna change your life. Thats just my opinion.

    About the sun shining brighter thing thats how I started to feel too! So thats good! Things will get better you'll see. Hopefully whatever you were going through was just a funk...and you'll get healthier and feel better and better and get to really enjoy your life once "the fog lifts". Plus its spring...perfect time of year to do this About the smoking. I know once I quit smoking I felt a lot less anxious. I read that it causes a roller coaster and actually aggrivates anxiety. Makes sense...you feel good when you smoke and anxious when you need a ciggarette.
    MadMax03801 likes this.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Oh...one more thing not to beat a dead horse about the depression meds but really really just be careful with them. I just found out this morning my Mom went to the hospital last night because she was hallucinating, it really scared her so they called 911. She weaned off Paxil idk if your familiar with that. So far this past year because of that drug she had severe memory lapses to the point of being checked for alzheimers....now hallucinations and seeing things. Scary stuff those psychiatric drugs. I really hate them. Only if someone is severely mentally ill and really needs them I understand. But with the electronic therapy you mentioned and the depression you just so reminded me of what my Mom went through. Seizures and all kinds of things after getting off them. Just trying to save you the grief of that. Suboxone withdrawal can't touch that....so just careful. Theres some good holistic counselors out there that focus not on the past but your future mostly. How you can better your life more so then focusing on what you regret. Good stuff I hear...

  20. #20
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seabrook, NH
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Gettinit, sorry to hear about your Mom's struggles with depression. It really is a terrible and frustrating thing to deal with. I remember first feeling depressed in 7th grade; I didn't know what it was at the time though, of course. I just didn't like myself and I really wanted my life to be over, I have one vived memory of walking down stairs at school and just feeling so heavy, and sad, and thinking "I wish I could die." Then I thought, "What a weird thing to wish." I have never felt very loved by my mom; she has a LOT of trouble expressing emotion. She lost her mom at 5 y.o. and her only sister at 14 y.o. to a car accident and a sledding accident. I understand that this has shaped her and that I need to forgive, and I think I have forgiven her finally, for the most part. It's just that all the years of constant criticism and never being good enough have left their mark on all of us kids, myself and middle sister especially. I'm really working on getting rid of my perfectionist attitude towards myself and trying to love myself, in all my flawed glory. It sounds hoaky, but it is what it is.

    My therapist has been a tremendous help and even though I am an addict and need to respect that, that problem feels under control. I was thinking this morning, "Hmm, having some W/D and knowing it will be a long battle does suck, but at least I don't have any cravings." Thank God that I don't have cravings, hopefully I won't at all, but I know that could change as I get lower. I haven't had cravings for opiates since pretty much the beginning of the subs. Even if I do have to deal with that, I know for a fact where ANY opiate abuse will lead me and how fast it happens. Not worth it.

    Gettinit, I agree with you about the depression meds. They don't really work for me, or for a fairly large segment of patients with recurrent depression. There definitely has to be more focus on therapy and figuring out how to combat the depression and it's source, instead of just handing out pills. The ECT did work for me, but not permanently. It also caused a lot of memory loss, luckily my wife and I have been together long enough that she clues me in on things I can't remember happening. Needless to say, the memory issue really stinks, although it gets better with time. But I do believe there is an important place for ECT with people who are severely depressed and have tried everything else. It was eerie how well it worked for me, just not permanently.

    Today was a good day. I haven't felt bad at all, except for early this morning. Mornings are always really tough for me, but I've been noticing that I don't feel nearly as tired in the morning as I had been on the full 8 mg dose. Definitely a good sign!! We're watching my buddies two girls for the evening, they're 5 and 7 and my daughter is 5 so they're having a great time, as usual. Mike, their dad, will be here in about an hour and he will stay the night as well, so that is fun. I think I will stay at 5 mg a couple more days and then go down to 4. Thanks for the posts Raven and GettinOverWith, have a great night and weekend.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    Gettinit, sorry to hear about your Mom's struggles with depression. It really is a terrible and frustrating thing to deal with. I remember first feeling depressed in 7th grade; I didn't know what it was at the time though, of course. I just didn't like myself and I really wanted my life to be over, I have one vived memory of walking down stairs at school and just feeling so heavy, and sad, and thinking "I wish I could die." Then I thought, "What a weird thing to wish." I have never felt very loved by my mom; she has a LOT of trouble expressing emotion. She lost her mom at 5 y.o. and her only sister at 14 y.o. to a car accident and a sledding accident. I understand that this has shaped her and that I need to forgive, and I think I have forgiven her finally, for the most part. It's just that all the years of constant criticism and never being good enough have left their mark on all of us kids, myself and middle sister especially. I'm really working on getting rid of my perfectionist attitude towards myself and trying to love myself, in all my flawed glory. It sounds hoaky, but it is what it is.

    My therapist has been a tremendous help and even though I am an addict and need to respect that, that problem feels under control. I was thinking this morning, "Hmm, having some W/D and knowing it will be a long battle does suck, but at least I don't have any cravings." Thank God that I don't have cravings, hopefully I won't at all, but I know that could change as I get lower. I haven't had cravings for opiates since pretty much the beginning of the subs. Even if I do have to deal with that, I know for a fact where ANY opiate abuse will lead me and how fast it happens. Not worth it.

    Gettinit, I agree with you about the depression meds. They don't really work for me, or for a fairly large segment of patients with recurrent depression. There definitely has to be more focus on therapy and figuring out how to combat the depression and it's source, instead of just handing out pills. The ECT did work for me, but not permanently. It also caused a lot of memory loss, luckily my wife and I have been together long enough that she clues me in on things I can't remember happening. Needless to say, the memory issue really stinks, although it gets better with time. But I do believe there is an important place for ECT with people who are severely depressed and have tried everything else. It was eerie how well it worked for me, just not permanently.

    Today was a good day. I haven't felt bad at all, except for early this morning. Mornings are always really tough for me, but I've been noticing that I don't feel nearly as tired in the morning as I had been on the full 8 mg dose. Definitely a good sign!! We're watching my buddies two girls for the evening, they're 5 and 7 and my daughter is 5 so they're having a great time, as usual. Mike, their dad, will be here in about an hour and he will stay the night as well, so that is fun. I think I will stay at 5 mg a couple more days and then go down to 4. Thanks for the posts Raven and GettinOverWith, have a great night and weekend.
    Hey Max,

    Man sorry to hear you had a rough upbringing. I can relate to a lot of what your saying. Not hoaky what-soever actually really justifiable for a 12 year old living in that environment. It seems like a lot of addicts are still struggling with a rough childhood. I know I have, my husband and a lot of my friends as well. Crazy....if you think about it-SO little time in our lives affect us SO much. What happens in that short period in our lives which lasts only 20 years can affect a lifetime it seems. IF you let it I believe. We were helpless kids, but we aren't helpless adults. Now life can be anyway you make it to be. It can be rough, we can get stuck dwelling on the bad that happened. Or we can accept that the past is the past, theres nothing we can do to change it but we CAN move forward though its rough I know. Its really hard to love yourself when you never had that person to show you that your worthy of being loved. I struggled with that for a LONG long time and didn't understand it at the time either. It helps to see also with your Mom how her childhood shaped her also, we really are just products of our environment at times. Theres a good chance she doesn't know any better because thats how she was brought up. Very good chance that it was your Mom's normal. Have you tried talking with her about it ever? I know thats a really awkward conversation...but my Dad was a really violent (drunk) man growing up. Though I still have a lot of anger that might never be resolved, once I did tell him how we viewed our childhood. He apologized because his Dad treated him the same, he lives with that guilt now. I understand and forgive to an extent for bad choices-alchohol. Saw him beat the hell out of my poor older brother too many times. He got it the worst. I had it the easiest being the girl...but still have a really vivid memory of a roller skate thrown at my head full speed and being told shut up or dumb >>>>> anytime I stood up to him. Blah. Anyways...just wanted to let you know your not alone in how you feel and shouldn't feel "hoaky" lol. But it is the past. Can't change it, but I think we really can take a leason from it and be even better parents. Just praise those babies and give them all the appreciation anything you felt you lacked, go over board. Be the annoying OVERLY lovey protective parent. LOL Then maybe one day when they're childhood was "so horrible" cause you smothered them . You can tell them your childhood story.

    Then they will do even better for their own kids...and before you know it that cycle will be broken. That's your choice though ya know. We just gotta MAKE that happen and be strong and choose to look for the good in things and try our best to get over the past. Were not helpless anymore. Just like your choosing to get clean, such a huge step in a positive direction. With the psychiatric drug warning, I still stand LOL. Crazy crazy stuff. Have you ever seen the commercials? "Will end your depression! (warning may cause impotency, mania, suicidal thoughts, depression, your hair to catch on fire, and your legs to fall off)" LOL.
    MadMax03801 likes this.

  22. #22
    jayryan is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Wow you have a lot of good responses here i read your intro...and a few replies down....decided >> chime in as well then ill.return and read the second half of your thread....

    man ther are so many cool.people with great things to say here its hard to keep up..lol


    anyways ya man a lot of us are long term sub users.....

    i would follow roses and kats advice and follow that link to get a good taper plan

    i was kinda a mess tapering before i got here....

    personally i have found that being on subs for so long i simply cannot reduce 25 percent every 4 days.....its more like 20 percent every one to two weeks.... so if you have to allow yourself a few extra days you wouldn't be alone in it at least..

    the very first time i inducted on subs i was doing a half gram or so of dope everyday and inducted on 8 mg pills three a day....

    today thanks to tapering i have stabelized and am.down to .5 mg once a day..

    with the help of people here of course


    i also have individual counseling...group therapy and attend AA/NA meetings....so all the support one can get definatelly helps


    anyways you have alot of support here.....ill be checkin in on ya....

    if it makes ya feel better i was able to get down to 2mg with little problem in retrospeck...... ya your gonna experience some withrawal here and there its almost 100 percent berable usually....

    you simply gotta get used to the idea not reaching for a sub everytime you feel.icky...ther is 101 other things you can do to handle life on lifes terms so to speak....

    anyways ill stop yappin...i do that a lot...I'm just super excited you decided to get off this drug...and I'm super excited for others here as well....including myself...i can see the finish line.and your finish line is just around the corner.....think.of it like a marathon...slow steady determined...peace...jay
    MadMax03801 likes this.

  23. #23
    jayryan is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Ps....you had mentioned depression...i struggle with that as well...

    i think you have the right idea by eating healthy and excercise....it definately is a good idea to start your healthy lifestyle habits now as it seems you have done...it will definatelt help..

    as far as depression...i.struggle too....was thinking about going to the.doctor and getting wellbutrin.i think it is an.anti depressent and quit smoking aid........

    if not i will get nic lozenges and i have tryptophan 5htp and st johns wart....i use or will.use in aimes at curbing depreassion...trying to take the holistic approach that changing numerous aspects of ones life will provide better chance.for.succes...there's no magic pill.so to speak.....anyways...just you caught my interest with the depression thing and was just hoping ti bounce ideas around in aims maybe we can lessen the depression to some degree...anyways...I'm all hopped up on my morning coffee..so sorry to post twice...just was reading the rest of your thread..and can relate..newasy peace...jay

  24. #24
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seabrook, NH
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Thank you for the responses guys. I am sorry to hear about the rough time with your Dad, GettinIt. My best friend growing up was in a similiar situation. His dad was a heavy drinker too and would sometimes let loose on him. It happened once when I was over there, it was so awkward. Luckily his mom was able to intervene, but it was kind of shocking to me. I try to be there for my daughter wheneven I can. I haven't been getting up in the morning with her for a couple months now; my wife and I used to take turns on the weekends and stuff. It's gotten to the point where she won't even ask me to get up with her. I feel badly about it and I think I want to talk to her about it and just let her know that I want to get up, it is just so hard. Not sure how to approach it. I do give her all the positive reinforcement I can and don't allow any dwelling on the negative. My wife is a huge help too, she is a very kind and patient. I'm pretty sure that with how low I've felt at times that I wouldn't be here without her and Madelon to keep me around. Who really knows though?
    Hi Jay, nice to hear from you. I've heard about 5-htp, maybe I should try some. It's supposed to help serotonin production, I think. I've also considered taking Wellbutrin, it is one I have heard a lot on the forums. I took it a few years ago, when we were trying everything. I don't remember why we discontinued it. But tapering is definitely a marathon. Nice and slow is good, I know, but then I am also so excited to reach the goal. I need to remember not to make it too hard on myself, just not necessary. I took 4.5 today and will probably do that for a couple days and then go to 4. I think I'll stay there for awhile and really let my body adjust. It will be the half way point. What kind of steps did you do between 4 and 2? I am wondering about doing it 0.5 at a time? Thanks again for the words of support and encouragement. Talk to you later.

  25. #25
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    So Calif
    Posts
    2,791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMax03801 View Post
    Thank you for the responses guys. I am sorry to hear about the rough time with your Dad, GettinIt. My best friend growing up was in a similiar situation. His dad was a heavy drinker too and would sometimes let loose on him. It happened once when I was over there, it was so awkward. Luckily his mom was able to intervene, but it was kind of shocking to me. I try to be there for my daughter wheneven I can. I haven't been getting up in the morning with her for a couple months now; my wife and I used to take turns on the weekends and stuff. It's gotten to the point where she won't even ask me to get up with her. I feel badly about it and I think I want to talk to her about it and just let her know that I want to get up, it is just so hard. Not sure how to approach it. I do give her all the positive reinforcement I can and don't allow any dwelling on the negative. My wife is a huge help too, she is a very kind and patient. I'm pretty sure that with how low I've felt at times that I wouldn't be here without her and Madelon to keep me around. Who really knows though?
    Hi Jay, nice to hear from you. I've heard about 5-htp, maybe I should try some. It's supposed to help serotonin production, I think. I've also considered taking Wellbutrin, it is one I have heard a lot on the forums. I took it a few years ago, when we were trying everything. I don't remember why we discontinued it. But tapering is definitely a marathon. Nice and slow is good, I know, but then I am also so excited to reach the goal. I need to remember not to make it too hard on myself, just not necessary. I took 4.5 today and will probably do that for a couple days and then go to 4. I think I'll stay there for awhile and really let my body adjust. It will be the half way point. What kind of steps did you do between 4 and 2? I am wondering about doing it 0.5 at a time? Thanks again for the words of support and encouragement. Talk to you later.
    Just wanted to chime in about your taper plan. Even though Robert's taper plan works wonders, the 4-day drop recommendation is for someone who is new to subs. As you know, long-term sub users need to taper slower than that.

    There's a fantastic sub doctor - Dr. >>>>>>> - who recommends that his patients taper by .5 mg once they get down to 2 mg. But, if you're comfortable dropping by .5 mg once you hit 4 mg, then I don't see a problem with that. The goal is to reduce at a comfortable pace without getting complacent. As long as you're making forward progress then you're on the right track.

    Listen to your body. You'll always know when it's time to drop.
    Take care and enjoy your weekend.
    Kat

  26. #26
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    ohio, , .
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    hi Max I haven't replied to your thread until now and I want to welcome you to the forums here. I see you have already been given some good advise here and I am glad to see you want to get off of subs after six years. I followed the taper plan on here after my first 6 weeks of sub use and went down to around .20 when I jumped off. I see you have seen the taper plan by Robert 325 and I followed it but I was only on subs for 4 months. As already pointed out long term sub users need to taper slower then his taper plan. Kath pointed out Dr >>>>>>> and what he actually does with long term users is above 2mg he has them do .50 drops until they reach 2 mg and then once at 2 mg he has them drop .25 each drop. If your at 4.5 right now then he would have you spend a week there then go to 4. He has patients spend 1 week at each dose but if after 1 week if you don't feel stable then I would stay at that dose until your fully stable. The drops are less then 25% but after 6 years you probably need to drop less then 25%. My best wishes to you and will talk to you later.

    Alex

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Hey again Max,

    I agree with the taking your time on the drops thing. No need to suffer in this..thats the whole point of a wean >> cold turkey. Even myself have only been taking subs a few months and 4-5 days still wasn't enough for me to stabilize depending on the drops some took 2 weeks before I felt ready. You will Feel it and know when your fine to drop. About your daughter, maybe you should break the ice on this and just explain to her your not feeling well right now and you'd love to be able to do a lot more with her as soon as your feeling better and you love her. I think kids tend to internalize a lot and take things personal and they need to hear quite often through life our Reasons for behaving like we do. That its NOT them but its us. It would def alleviate some of your guilt and who knows maybe she will be happy to help you out in this, and find other ways for the two of you to spend quality time together. It would only be beneficial to the both of you, so wouldn't hurt. Anyways good to hear your taper is working out so far!

  28. #28
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    So Calif
    Posts
    2,791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    hi Max I haven't replied to your thread until now and I want to welcome you to the forums here. I see you have already been given some good advise here and I am glad to see you want to get off of subs after six years. I followed the taper plan on here after my first 6 weeks of sub use and went down to around .20 when I jumped off. I see you have seen the taper plan by Robert 325 and I followed it but I was only on subs for 4 months. As already pointed out long term sub users need to taper slower then his taper plan. Kath pointed out Dr >>>>>>> and what he actually does with long term users is above 2mg he has them do .50 drops until they reach 2 mg and then once at 2 mg he has them drop .25 each drop. If your at 4.5 right now then he would have you spend a week there then go to 4. He has patients spend 1 week at each dose but if after 1 week if you don't feel stable then I would stay at that dose until your fully stable. The drops are less then 25% but after 6 years you probably need to drop less then 25%. My best wishes to you and will talk to you later.

    Alex
    Max,

    I wanted to clarify my last post to you. I made a typo: I meant to say since you're at 4.5 mg, it's ok to drop by .5 mg at a time, and then drop by .25 mg once you get down to 2 mg, like Alex said. Tapering slowly is a really good idea for long term sub users. I drop every 2 weeks or so and it has worked for me.

    How are you feeling today?
    Kat

  29. #29
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seabrook, NH
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Hi Kat. Today I can't tell if I feel optimistic or pessimistic, I must be neither. Thank you for asking though. I kind of feel the fog that I've heard others speak of here, I think. Yuck. Yesterday I was going to take 4.5 mg again, for the second day, and then drop to 4 today as I will be opening a new strip. However, I could not find the 0.5 piece in the foil that I had placed it in from the day before. It was gone. I just took 4 and I feel okay today. Physically, I feel pretty good. Probably worse tomorrow and then better the next day, that's what I am hoping (I'll always take better tomorrow AND the next day though ) I took L-tyrosine this morning before my coffee and definitely noticed a small difference in my alertness. I think I'll keep taking that for awhile. Now that I am at 4 I am going to stay here until I really feel better (i.e. start getting up with my daughter on the weekends at least and start exercise habit.) I think that my motivation to continue to taper will wear off into these two areas, at least that is what I hope.
    Gettinit, thank you for the advice. I spoke to my daughter last night for the second time about not getting up with her in the morning. The first time was a more casual mention that I really want to and wish that I did not sleep in like I do, this was Saturday night. On Sunday she actually came over to my side of the bed and asked me to get up with her (after Mom saying, "I really need to sleep a little more.") You would think that would be enough, and I feel awful about it, but I didn't get up with her, instead, even worse I said "Just a few more minutes..." Nicky got up with her about 40 minutes later. I know she is old enough and responsible enough to be downstairs by herself and watch Netflix on the iPad or play a game, but I feel guilty that I am not there for her. I spoke to her again last night and explained to her that I have been discontinuing a medicine and really struggle with certain things like waking up. She asked me why I didn't just ask my doctor for a different medicine that would make me feel better and I explained that it doesn't work that way in this case. I emphasized that it was about me, my problem, and I really do want to be up with her and it had nothing to do with her and nothing had changed with her. I think she understood better. I really want to continue to work on this, but mornings have ALWAYS been my problem. I had an extensive 32-hour sleep study done last fall right before the second round of ECT just to rule out any obvious sleep problems. The sleep doctor said I had border-line narcolepsy, but didn't quite "pass" the test for it. One more nap where I went to REM immediately would've been "more text-book." He offered me stims which I took for a little (tried Provigil for a few days and Concerta for a week or so.) I was scared of being dependant or worse on the stimulants and decided not to go that route at that time. However, a few months ago, I started taking Vyvanse through my regular psychiatrist. It helped my motivation, immensely at first, but lately not as much. After I am done weaning off the subs I plan to try the same thing with the Vyvanse. I have been pretty good about not using more than I should, today I took only half for the first time in a long time. I believe the L-tyrosine I took will help me to make it without too much lethargy. I can get off drugs (prescription or otherwise) but it is up to me and will take tenacity. I hope it will be worth it and I really believe it will.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    292

    Default

    [deleted - swearing]
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-15-2014 at 04:01 PM.
    MadMax03801 likes this.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Beginning the taper process
    By conwaycreek in forum Need to Talk?
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 03-07-2019, 09:10 AM
  2. 12 years suboxone user finally starting to taper help
    By Bubsyboy in forum Need to Talk?
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-06-2016, 12:30 PM
  3. Suboxone Taper: I need your support
    By BrainWash in forum Need to Talk?
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-28-2015, 03:10 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22