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Going crazy .. Suboxone: quick detox or Roberts taper?
  1. #1
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Default Going crazy .. Suboxone: quick detox or Roberts taper?

    Hey guys, I meant to write here sooner but my mind wasn't made up. I'm a 33y.o man with family, that has been abusing pain pills since 2012 or so. It was on and off. When I first quit hydrocodones, I did it cold turkey. 5 days and i was good. No one in my family even knew I was withdrawing. It was a joke. Then, my great 'friends' introduced me to percs, and then oxy30. I quit using suboxone s/t detox but quickly relapsed. It was horrible. I was in a deeper hole , with higher tolerance and higher debt. These devil little blue pills are destroying my life. I lie to everyone, steal family's money, no sex or sex drive, constant fear of wd and everyday I say "I'll start suboxone tomorrow". I've started sub multiple times last few weeks, but my stupid mind convinced me to make those calls and get blues. It was horrible. I would waste, literary waste money , feel no effects and started the process all over again.
    I kept finding excuses like : " I PROB DIDNT INDUCT PROPERLY! Why 2-3 yrs ago 2mg suboxone did wonders and now it barely does a thing ? Let me taper oxy!" I just lied to myself. That's all. Yesterday I began all over again and now it's day 2. I felt little to no cravings OR withdrawals at 4.50mg sub.

    My daily oxy habit nearly doubled during last 2 yrs. now I can EASILY pop 180-200mg of oxy a day, where before 90mg would keep high all day. So, I assume that's the reason why i need more sub? I have good amount of suboxone to do if "right" this time.

    I was just thinking maybe I should do a quicker taper (making a career switch within next 2-3 weeks , and was thinking to go through wd now >> later) followed by Gabapentin/Loperamide/Clonidine combo to battle wds? I've take Gabapentin a few times for induction purposes and it works great for some opiate wd symptoms I think.

    I know that I DEFINETELY want to use Suboxone and not Cold turkey it, but I DEFINETELY don't want to be hooked on it for too long or have withdrawals that last 4 weeks (so I heard/read).

    Please help me guys ((

    Before I lose my mind -(

    Best,
    Vlad
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-11-2017 at 08:56 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Hey vlad, how many days have you been on sub 4.5mg do you feel "stable" ? At that amount?
    Let me tell you something that sounds wrong but is surprisingly not. With suboxon less is more... i heard this a few times read it a lot never made science till I drop to about 1mg a few days ago... and I gotta say it is just as they say...
    I'm not sure I'm the one for advice at the moment but it's the weekend less traffic here so if someone doesn't pop on to help I'll be more then willing to talk it out with ya
    Welcome to the forum
    D.

  3. #3
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Hey D. Thank you very much for input. I feel like I'm not alone I felt so darn alone lately. No one knows about my habit. Except one guy who quit harder stuff with my help on using Roberts taper. But we all have lives and when I called him for support during my moments of weakness and dispose, he was busy. He wasn't there ... can't blame him. But I kind of did.

    What I did was this: I just took bunch of sub on Mon and Tue (6mg, 7mg respectively).. then I took oxy like an idiot on tue night. It did nothing. Being scared of precipitated wd, I took more oxy on Wed and Thur. Waited 20 hrs (give or take) and took sub yesterday (Friday). I was at work so I didn't want to start small. So i took 2mg, 1, 1.50. Totaling 4.5mg. Woke this morning very early due to stomach issues. Took 2mg and that was 5 hrs ago. I'm also taking antibiotics and they irritate my stomach in addition to being in mild wd so, I plan to take 4.5 today again...BUT -- if I feel fine at 4mg, do i really need to take 4.50? I didn't really need 4.50. I seriously took last 1.50 because of mild craving. I'm pretty sure it's 95% mental. Cravings are there until I get to 4mg+ it seems like.

    Thanks again for your help D!

    Vlad

  4. #4
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    You are welcome
    Maybe take 1 to 2mg wait a few hours and see if your doing OK if not take another 1mg till you are at a point where you fell ok some discomfort is OK in my opinion but some may disagree once you find out what mg works for you 3mg 4mg then stay at that amount for 4 to 10 days then subtract 25% and repeat, the mental thing...... read success stories on here and find books with positive things, or watch some Netflix to get out of your head and keep posting,.
    I'm down to 1mg and feel way better then I did at higher doses and plan to drop tomorrow by 25% their are great threads on here I've been trying to read someone's story once a day it help alot
    You got this....
    D.

  5. #5
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Wow! Congrats D! How long it took u to get to 1mg?
    See, my experience is to NEVER rush this thing. I'm so "against" being on sun sometimes, and I'm trying to be clean with no wd within a week and I rush, rush , rush. Eventually I get so darn depressed and lonely and I just make that call. A call that bring back the dispair, more loneliness, guilt, self-loathing and downhill spiral

    The reason why I always rushed was because I FELT MUCH BETTER ON 2mg a day and lower!!! My mood, energy, motivation was up. So instead of taking a pause at 1mg, I would drop to 0.75, then 0.50 too fast, too soon. And then ---BAM! I'm back to lying and stealing from family (I mean spending my hard earned money to pay drug dealers' bills,instead of spending on my family --- that kind of stealing). It got to the point that I sold my IRA holdings so wife doesn't realize cash is gone. It's saddens me that IF I had unlimited supply of money I would prob OD already... now it's not all about the money. I want to be a functioning and responsible guy. I don't want to lie anymore. "Stay late at work" so I can meet with a dealer and waste $150 just to catch a 15 min high and then try to chase if.

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    I went from 8mg down to 4mg that was tough then went to 3mg not a big deal but was still lethargic went 2.25 still lethargic, so i dropped to 1mg from that 8 to this 3rd day of 1mg it has been a total of 18 days but I was on it for 3 years so I changed my life wasn't chasing drug dealers down didn't have the manic up an downs all of that was good but it could have been done the same with an induction of 4mg maybe 2mg at one point they had me at 24mg a day, I'm not sure if going from habit to sub and then down in a hurry is the answer I think a good year at the lowest does on subs would be beneficial if you had some real life changing things to focus on. If all you do is get on subs ween off with out making those changes in the process your problem bound to repeat, I mean their was a reason I went to sub in the fist place.. Cuz I could go through the wd on opiates no problem had it down to a science but 30 to 60 days later I would relapse because I didn't have enough time under belt to make real changes in my life.. but I have made those changes, don't get me wrong it didn't need three years on subs maybe 6 months would've been enough hard to say.
    What I'm saying I guess is if you can find the smallest of Amount of subs mg that will keep you safe and comfortable so you have time to work on whatever it is you need to work on so you may stop that cycle then that's the ticket. But if all you do is get on subs drop down to nothing in a short amount of time and make no changes then there is a better chance that the cycle will repeat again... putting the drug in us is only a part of it all.. changing our habits our outlook our reward process in the brain is just as important as not taking a drug. Does that make sense?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-11-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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    Good morning, vlad how you doing this morning ?

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    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Hey D. Thanks for checking in. It really makes me feel so great knowing someone's here by my side. I am doing ok. Took 3mg of sub so far.
    I'm going through so much shid right now and feel very vulnerable. I'm in the midsts of leaving my 10+ yr career to start this biz with a few partners and was planning to resign next week. And that alone caused lots of frustration. Being in ambiguity was/is horrible. After reading the contract yesterday , I got depressed. I feel like my close friend, who approached me with this "genius" business idea, is trying to screw me. Idk. I was excited to leave my current job (six figure salary) and take a huge pay cut just to learn new skills, have something of my "own" (15% of revenue) to have a prosperous future. I know very little about this business or entrepreneurship in general, so I was comfortable doing it with my boy. But my "boy" who's sitting on lots of cash wants to squeeze every dollar out of me. And he knows that my situation is different. Sorry for whining. It's just sometimes thoughts like "maybe I'm not ready still, maybe another time I'll quit" crossed my mind many times. Plus, my wife was driving me nuts last few days. Very ungrateful person , sometimes. Idk. Had an argument with my close friend, my wife... who's next? Lol
    I'm spending time with my daughter now. With my crazy schedule I barely get to see her..
    I think i feel good on 3mg sub. So, I was at 4.50 Fri, 4.50 Sat, and 3 today so far. I hate to take more sub just because I'm depressed or have cravings. Should I?
    Confusion in regards to this million dollar question makes me want to drop dosages fast and relapse...

    Your advise is greatly appreciated D, and others who don't mind chiming in

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    Vladberman is offline Member
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    I just realized that I didn't respond to ur post from yesterday D (forfuk..).
    I see what u mean.

    So if I start going to gym, attend meetings, change my diet, etc then staying on s sub for too long isn't nesseccary... but if I do things "as is", then it's better to remain on a particular (higher) stable dose for extended period of time is recommended?

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    Yes that's kinda how I see it but I'm no expert
    now as far as business, partners are tricky, if you walk into it with reservations and atomisity make sure your covered in the contract and be prepared to lose you "boy", as long as you walk into eyes wide then it's whatever.. I've been an entrepreneur for most of my adult life, had one partner...went sideways, I'd never do that again, plus it seems like you may want to just focus on your self for a while before making any major life changing plans
    just my thoughts
    Just get stable on the subs get your head right then makes some plans

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    If 3mg is keeping you from wds and or cravings then it's doing its job if not then only go up a little at a time till you get to that point...
    The ceiling effect can be 4mg for some but usually no more the 8 is needed but it's way easier to come off of later if 3mg is working
    Sorry just dropped to .75 today my hand eye coordination isn't what should be

  12. #12
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Vlad
    Have u checked out Robert325's taper plan? It's the first post on this forum. He says people have more success w the longer taper but it's up to you. I did a 4-month taper. You could do an 8-week taper. The key is not to induct at a high dose! Robert325 mentions often unducting at the lowest effective dose of sub. It's good advice.
    Be determined! There will b ups and downs and ur determination will be the raft that gets you over the waves.
    Post when u can...
    PS: i would not increase dose at this time. There is no such thing as a painless wd!!

  13. #13
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Hey guys! Thank you for chiming in Ming and thank u for clarification D.

    It's been such a crazy day at work. I thought I was going to lose my mind. Took 2mg today in the am and totally forgot to take another 1mg up until 8pm! 2mg kept me good. No physical wd whatsoever. Cravings drove me nuts. I even called a woman who sold me her pills. Called to "say hi" somehow I ended up telling her that I had to go and just popped 1mg of sub underneath my tongue. Woooof. I had anxiety. Actually I thought I had anxiety. Effin cravings drive me nuts sometimes and I either want to make the call or actually call ppl that have relation to oxys and I suddenly start feeling "hot flashes, anxeity, back pain", mental battle sets in, my mind gets clouded, every little demon on one side of my subconscious tells me "do it, do it, do it". I even try to justify WHY I should just pop oxy. Release stress, I deserve it, "how else am I supposed to live life without getting high" type thoughts.

    Tomorrow is a snow day... everyone's home in NY. Ughhh. Hate snow. Hate winter. Just a year or two AC I used to love it.

    I've used Roberts taper before Ming. Tapered too fast, too soon..stopped talking to my quitting buddy (because he lied to me and used ), and eventually I relapsed.

    Like D said -- I have to change habits. Replace bad habits with good ones. Instead of wasting money and time looking for pills, and thinking how to lie to my fam and friends today , I should go to gym, find new hobbies, learn new things , read books , watch movies.

    I think this new business endeavor could work in my favor. This is a major life changing event. Biz is located very far from all those dirty dealers and I won't have excuse to use. I have to find the way to cut those POS's from my life. I can't say they call me and remind me of themselves , I kinda do. Did I get used to them ? Does my mind try to convince me these dirtbags are my friends?? Idk.
    I just have to be strong and stay on sub for now.

    D, do u live in NY too? I've read ur entire thread bro. Very impressed and inspired by you! You're one courageous man. Good luck to u and God bless! I promise to post on your thread when I'm done reading last few posts

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    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Had a snow day today. I really wanted to take less sub today since no matter the cravings I wouldn't go anywhere any way.
    I was so tired and sore after shoveling and I didn't know whether I have leg and body cramps and aches are due to mildest wd or physical acfivity (that I wasn't involved in since last summer...)

    Today was the first day in months (or even couple of years) that I didn't think about oxy... when I spend time with my family and my wife doesn't break chops (lol) , I feel like million bucks! When I'm at work or bored, I start finding excuses to use..

    I think I'm just tired of oxy. I officially hate them. I've had cravings when taking 4+mg of sub! And guess what? I went and bought oxy... of course popping pills didn't get me much high but gave me reason to still wake up in the morning and buy more...

    So I still took 3mg of sub today. A little disappointing but I feel good.

    I wanted to ask questions about possivbly turning this taper into a detox and use Gabapentin/Clonidine/Benzo(if needed) after final jump... I know I'm a perfect candidate for a longer taper, given my experience with sun I just don't want to prolong the inevitable. In general, for people with addictive personality who took opiates for 4+ yrs --longer (6+ weeks) taper is better than short term detox/taper??

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    Good morning vlad,
    Well ultimately that's a choice that only you can make, I would think if your still having cravings even without having wds, that seems like exactly why someone would stay on them for a while to change the "reward wiring" in the brain when you go from taking pills every hour chasing drug of choice "doc" down all the time those habits need time to change. with subs you take once a day to help change that thinking. I'd maybe stay at where you are till your no longer "chasing"...craving ect.
    However if you decide to just cold turkey it I'd be here to support you on that as well.
    D.

    Vald I'm not sure I'm comfortable stating were in live but sounds like I'm close enough to time have the same kind of weather
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-15-2017 at 05:31 AM.

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    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Thanks for your reply man.

    Can't sleep for sheet... wake up 4-5 hrs after falling asleep. Two days in a row. I guess 3mg of sub ain't that much after all for me. And I wanted to drop quicker.
    Smh.. I def won't increase my dose back to 4.

    Aight... I'll try to do some push-ups or smth...

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    Do you have another day off from work?
    Have you started with therapy or anything?
    DI'd you start with supplements that may help your body during this process?

  18. #18
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    I'm just taking multivitamins. I know I should start other supplements too. Especially if I'm going to taper.

    I took 2.75mg today. And I'm having having mild anxiety. My head was clouded. Mind was racing. I was hungry , apparently. Once I ate, I started feeling better. Still have headache. Maybe because I woke up st 5am ?
    Heart is beating so darn fast. Hurting a little too. Idk. Should I take more sub? AHHHHHHH! I really don't want to. I don't want to drive around with anxeity when my daughter is in the car with me.
    I felt so much better when I was home. Being at work drives me frigikkin crAaaazy!! I need that career change guys... I do I think. I know new career means new stress and stuff but I just need to change stuff in my life.
    I hate being tired and have insanely fast heart rate and mild anxiety.
    How can 2.50sub do so well one day and next day it isn't enough?? I've been on 3mg for 3 full days already.

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    Hey sorry I didn't get back to ya sooner. How you feeling?
    I had one of them days I just didn't really want to talk to ppl I kinda hide in Netflix all day...
    Gets exhausting trying to better your self everyday. for almost 30 days straight I've been putting myself threw it dropping in doses more than I should be just hit me hard today..

  20. #20
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Feel better bro. I still don't know why you're being so stubborn lol. I like that though! If u've been on subs that long, at high dosages -- why don't u give urself some credit for what you've accomplished thus far and get to a comfortable dose bro? I'm not telling u go score some speedball lol but maybe ur body and mind deserves some rest from this rollercoaster... I've heard few other stories here before registering and there're a lot of folks out there who tapered from 16mg to nothing with minimal discomfort.

    Good luck man. I'll talk to u tomorrow. Feel better. I hope we both will, manana.

  21. #21
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there..

    I read your thread
    And it's a lot to go through especially when
    You are trying to get clean.

    That's really sad that you have doubts about your potential new business partner!
    I hope you have everything in writing just like you would go with a stranger!


    What is your plan with the sub?
    Do you have enough for a taper ?

    I will check back later
    Bette
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  22. #22
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there..

    I reread your thread..
    I would say after trying this sooooo many time..
    I would find a dose 2 mg-3 mg whichever works and stay on it..
    for at least 6 months..

    We all have thought about drugs !

    It Is the times we don't go get them
    That makes it easier it is to do just that!
    Not go get them!

    It is like creating a stay clean muscle
    But it has to be developed and strengthened!

    It takes practice!
    It takes not acting on every thought and every feeling!

    You have been here before this is the last stop
    Before rehab!

    I know you don't want anyone to know but if you keep doing the same thing
    You will keep getting the same results!

    You said you have enough sub..
    get stable
    Live your life
    Learn how to not act on every craving
    Learn how to think things through !
    Play the tape to the end before you take a pill
    Not after!

    You deserve to be clean !
    Your daughter deserves a clean dad!
    Relax a little
    Enjoy the fact that the insanity of chasing the pill and the high is gone while on sub..
    what other choice do you have?

    You have tried them all?

    You can do this !
    We have done it !
    Lots of us are still here
    Clean!
    If we can do it ?
    You can do it!
    It takes time!

    Your tolerance and addiction didn't happen in 4-6 weeks?

    So idk why we think we should be able to get clean so fast!
    Recovery doesn't happen that way

    Give yourself a break!

    Bette
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-15-2017 at 09:38 PM.

  23. #23
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Hi Bette thank you for your words of wisdom. I'm honored to hear From one of the most respected Old Timers here. I've seen your name many times before. And saw how you've helped others.

    I was thinking to stay on sub a little longer , but I don't think I can stay at 3mg for 6 months. First, I don't have that much subuxone. Second, I'm familiar with this medicine and I know how powerful it is. I was thinking to do a slower (extended) taper. I've read Randy's thread and he reduced by 0.25 every 4-5 days and was able to finish his taper with minimal discomfort. Knowing myself, I think it's important to stay longer on current dose, like you said Bette. Do you think if I'll stay on 2-3mg for 3 weeks, I can't THEN follow the Taper Regimen and reduce by 25% every 4 days? Or stay at each dose for weeks?

    Actually, in regards to my biz partner -- it was a misunderstanding. On my part, mainly. I wasn't explained the details and over-reacted. That's when I first got on sub. Was super emotional...

    Thank you sooo sooooo much for posting on my thread Bette. Means a lot. Seriously .. I hope to hear from you soon

  24. #24
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    It's crazy but I woke up after 5 hrs of sleep due to some other bothersome issue. Today it was some CRAZY indigestion discomfort. Pain. Felt like baseball-sized knot was in my stomach. It's funny but i just remembered that I often have this type of problem after quitting taking oxy. About 2 yrs ago I even went to get endoscopy done -- that's how much scared I was ..

    Just took omeapzole or smth..
    Seems like it's helping.

    Any suggestions...?

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    Good morning, glad you decided to do a proper taper...
    As for stomach issues imodium is pretty popular, I don't really get stomach issues, just poop alot lol
    Hope your day goes good no anxiety ext.

  26. #26
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladberman View Post
    Hi Bette thank you for your words of wisdom. I'm honored to hear From one of the most respected Old Timers here. I've seen your name many times before. And saw how you've helped others.

    I was thinking to stay on sub a little longer , but I don't think I can stay at 3mg for 6 months. First, I don't have that much subuxone. Second, I'm familiar with this medicine and I know how powerful it is. I was thinking to do a slower (extended) taper. I've read Randy's thread and he reduced by 0.25 every 4-5 days and was able to finish his taper with minimal discomfort. Knowing myself, I think it's important to stay longer on current dose, like you said Bette. Do you think if I'll stay on 2-3mg for 3 weeks, I can't THEN follow the Taper Regimen and reduce by 25% every 4 days? Or stay at each dose for weeks?

    Actually, in regards to my biz partner -- it was a misunderstanding. On my part, mainly. I wasn't explained the details and over-reacted. That's when I first got on sub. Was super emotional...

    Thank you sooo sooooo much for posting on my thread Bette. Means a lot. Seriously .. I hope to hear from you soon


    Hey Vlad......Back again huh? So much I want to say to you as here you are again in the same place you have always been. Thought it was you as I read your "story" this time. I recognized you as someone I've tried to help many times previously. And that's perfectly fine. I truly hope you're READY to do it this time?

    The answers to how to do this PROPERLY with the SUBOXONE remain the same as they always have....

    Get on a stable dose, somewhere around 4mg per day, give or take a mg or so, remain on that dose about a week, then begin the taper process by reducing 25% every 4 - 7 days. And taper down to at least .25mg per day. The time spent on the sub allows you to hopefully curb your addictive tendencies. This entire process takes ABOUT 6-8 weeks give or take a couple weeks.

    Theres no magical formula to get through this process of being clean. No easy way to do it. No shortcuts. You'll have some discomfort along the way, that's a given, but it shouldn't be anything you can't handle. You know we always say you have to WANT IT more than anything. I honestly believe you've never been ready to get clean. You love the Oxy too much. Part of it is probably the habit of obtaining the Oxy?

    I know this is hard. I surely know that well. It's the hardest thing you'll ever do for yourself. But it's the BEST thing you'll ever do for youself. The lure of those pills is enormous to say the least. They control your every thought as soon as you awake each morning. It's all you think about all day long. You honestly care about NOTHING else. You're always wondering when, where and how to get more. As you said the $$$ just disappears completely. You do terrible things to get more. You lie, manipulate, even cheat and steal sometimes. Rock bottom isn't far away.

    It's no way to live my friend.

    Randy
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  27. #27
    Vladberman is offline Member
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    Hey D. Hope you're doing better bro.

    Randy--You hit the nail in the head (about obsession about getting the pills, the hustle, the "adventure". Every 'free moment' I had I thought to myself "oh, perfect reason to lie to my wife and go pill shopping". Oftentimes, I didn't even want to get high!! I was buying pills, taking half and tossing the rest with plans on inducting on sub next morning. And funny thing is that sometimes i liked it more when pills weren't easy to obtain!! AM I CRAZY ?? I truly love the hustle. The hustle that drained my 401k, savings , and destroyed family relations.)

    I swear to God ... it feels like you know me too darnn well Randy j/k

    But no, let's stick to my "story" brotha lol

    So you're saying few weeks on a stable dose? I agree with you and this wonderful lady Bette I'm currently at 3mg. Tried dropping to 2.50, but couldn't ... felt very uneasy. HOW CAN THIS LITTLE CRUMB OF 0.50mg BE SO POWERFUL?? This is crazzzy. I mean, I can see it being powerful when one drops to below 1mg , but 2.50mg is a pretty darnn high dose, no??
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  28. #28
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Sub is powerful..
    so that little crumb could be all the difference.
    6 months is not some magical number..
    But I do think you have to stay on longer than in the past..
    you really don't even have to think about it.
    Just do what we did and you can be successful!

    like Randy said there is going to be discomfort.
    But there is discomgort with using pills..

    At least with this discomfort
    Comes
    A great pay off!

    The discomfort that comes with using is always worse
    Each time!

    I would stay at 3 mg a day for a week or 2 ..
    just stay there !
    Don't over think it
    Just take your dose in the am 1.5 mg
    8-10 hours later 1.5 mg
    Just pick a time that works .
    Everyday the same!

    That is your only job!

    That has got be a relief!

    3 mg is not that high of a dose
    For someone who's tolerance is getting bigger every time you relapse!

    This is about what dose you feel stable at NOW!

    Please don't over analyst!

    What are your other options?
    Exactly!

    Keep posting..

    We will be here!
    Bette
    Randy35 and LaurieLaSalle like this.

  29. #29
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    3,102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladberman View Post
    Hey D. Hope you're doing better bro.

    Randy--You hit the nail in the head (about obsession about getting the pills, the hustle, the "adventure". Every 'free moment' I had I thought to myself "oh, perfect reason to lie to my wife and go pill shopping". Oftentimes, I didn't even want to get high!! I was buying pills, taking half and tossing the rest with plans on inducting on sub next morning. And funny thing is that sometimes i liked it more when pills weren't easy to obtain!! AM I CRAZY ?? I truly love the hustle. The hustle that drained my 401k, savings , and destroyed family relations.)

    I swear to God ... it feels like you know me too darnn well Randy j/k

    But no, let's stick to my "story" brotha lol

    So you're saying few weeks on a stable dose? I agree with you and this wonderful lady Bette I'm currently at 3mg. Tried dropping to 2.50, but couldn't ... felt very uneasy. HOW CAN THIS LITTLE CRUMB OF 0.50mg BE SO POWERFUL?? This is crazzzy. I mean, I can see it being powerful when one drops to below 1mg , but 2.50mg is a pretty darnn high dose, no??


    Vlad -

    Yes, I know you well. Very well in fact. Why? Because you're just like me when I was using and abusing drugs. I was no different than you. I did all of the things you've done and then some. I know what you're thinking, I know what ytou're doing, and I probably know what you're going to do before you do it. Not boasting, just been there, done that. The only difference between you and I right now is that I hit a HARD rock bottom and you haven't. Not yet anyway. But you're headed there if you continue as you are. It's your time to do this thing. Don't you think?

    I've told you before many, many times that you are one person that needs to get on the sub and REMAIN on the sub a while before you even consider tapering. I know Bette and others have told you the same thing. Just how long isn't the point right now. And you won't be on it long enough to become addicted if you follow suggestions offered to you.

    Bette said it perfectly.....Don't over-think this. Take your sub everyday and forget it. Get stable on 3-4mg, or where you feel the most comfortable, go about your day, then take your dose(s) the next day and repeat that process. It's when you worry about reducing now, lowering by how much, tapering too fast, how much to taper, etc, etc, etc. Don't over-think this. It's not that difficult. Really it isn't.

    As you remain on the sub a while your addict mind begins to clear. That's one thing the sub can do for you. At least it did for me and hundreds of others. You want your drug of choice less and less and less. Then one day you realize you can go through life without those stinking pills. But you have to stay on the sub long enough for that to happen. In YOUR case it's definitely needed.

    Think it over. You CAN do this.

    Randy

  30. #30
    Vladberman is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Thanks Bette
    Thank you very much for inspiring me. Thank u for not beating myself up. You guys make me feel like I have this amazing, caring, loving family. Knowing you guys are here truly helps.

    I do agree with other members about suboxones half life. THERES NO WAY half life is on avg 48 hrs. For me, it's more like 24hrs (if not less

    Took 3mg so far today. But I feel like it's not enough. Too supplements too but I feel like I need more sub? Or is it my addictive personality talking?

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