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Hard work tapering Sub, now scared to jump
  1. #1
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Default Hard work tapering Sub, now scared to jump

    Hi folks -

    I am new to DDC, but not to opiates and for the last 11 months low dose subs. I have been tapering for the last couple months and am down to .33 mg strip SL each morning. I got to be honest, following the sites recommended 25% reduction each 4-7 days has worked. I am at a level my PCP/Sub Doc told me it is all in my head... he is a knowledgeable guy, but I think his expectations are pretty high.

    Tomorrow I am dropping again to .25MG SL strip... it is sooo small of a tab, it is hard to believe it'll hold me. But, I am going forward with it because I spend every day wishing I was off the sub train.

    I am also very scared of the jump. My original habit did not warrant a sub treatment (went to a clinic originally, cash only). But that is history and I am where I am.

    I have just about every comfort med you could think of to help me once I jump. I have 4 kids and a full-time job to try to keep in order, too!

    I thank anyone in advance for any words of wisdom to help me get the courage up to quit (CT or skip days, haven't decided yet).

    --Tim

  2. #2
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Tim. Welcome to the forums!! Here you'll find a great bunch of people who will help you get off the subs. I jumped from 1mg/day 4 months ago. I hadn't found the site yet and didn't really know about how crazy strong subs are. It took me about a month and a half to get back to any kind of normalcy. I had to work every day also. It was pretty brutal. I stumbled here scared and alone and wondering why I felt so terrible on day 11. This site saved me for sure. The support of these members helped me push through.

    Congratulations on your taper thus far. I'd say keep tapering until you're at least stable on .25mg. Some people go even lower than that. But that's your choice. Skipping days is important also. It allows the sub in your system to dissipate and catch up. If you can work those in I would. It'll soften your landing.

    W/D are brutal! No way around it. But as low as you are you'll be able to work. Working through my detox was the best thing that happened to me.It forced me to be active and moving around and not thinking about my suffering.

    I'm really happy and excited for you!! Life is so much better than I could have imavined. It was a long rollercoaster but sooooo worth it in the long run.

    Post as much as you need to. Let it all out, we're really good listeners. Read others threads. There are some great ones non here.

    I'm so happy for you!!
    Beef
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  3. #3
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Congrats on your awesome progress Tim.

    I am currently tapering as well. Started at 3mg and am now on day 2 at 1mg. So far I have felt pretty good.

    Did you notice any symptoms during your taper down? How much were you previously on?

    My next mental roadblock is going to be going from 2 doses a day down to one with my next drop. I plan to taper as low as I possibly can and also incorporate the skip days.

    I have a thread in here, so I will keep up with your progress. Keep up the great work, you've made it so far.
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  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome!

    Your fear of the jump isn't unusual. So much unknown and we all had come to rely on our crutch to get through daily life. Dosing of something becomes so ingrained in our routines that it becomes difficult to give up. The pay off is absolute freedom! You're right and your doctor is wrong. .33mg/day is still enough of this powerful drug to create difficult symptoms so you're wise to keep at the taper for a bit longer. Get down as far as you possibly can and do take the time to try the skip days. Beef explained the wisdom of allowing the last of the sub to very slowly leave your system. The slower you can get to the end, the better your jump will be. At that point, a lot of what you feel and go through will be mental but there may be some minor lingering physical symptoms for a while. These shouldn't interfere with your life but will require you to sift through how and what you're feeling in order to sort out what is truly physical and what is leaving a reliable friend behind.

    As soon as I read the title of your thread, I was reminded of Randy, a dedicated member here and one of my heroes. Find his thread and when you have the time read it start to finish. You'll find many, if not all, of your questions answered and will see just how well he did once he put these fears aside and decided that he wanted off the ride. Keep posting and reading. Try to update here at least once a day and you'll continue to get the best advice and support available here.

    In real life, have you considered meetings and/or any kind of face to face support? Don't discount how valuable this will be for you. Most of us resist meetings and/or therapy because we truly believe that once we can just complete a successful taper or detox, there's no possible way we'll ever go back. Yeah. I told myself that each and every time I detoxed and would quickly relapse. Finally I found this Forum and I can still remember the first time someone posted to me asking what I was going to do differently this time. Clearly, my way of getting and staying clean didn't work. That statement alone settled heavily on my mind and it was impossible to argue the point. So for the first time, I took a leap of faith and decided that all of these people who seemed to be managing recovery just may have a tool that might make the difference for me and that maybe I should be listening to them and following their path. After nearly 20 years of abuse, I just passed my 8 year mark earlier this month. I hope that stumbling upon this site is going to be one of the links to your continued recovery as it is mine.

    Peace,

    Cat

  5. #5
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefigurehead View Post
    Hi folks -

    I am new to DDC, but not to opiates and for the last 11 months low dose subs. I have been tapering for the last couple months and am down to .33 mg strip SL each morning. I got to be honest, following the sites recommended 25% reduction each 4-7 days has worked. I am at a level my PCP/Sub Doc told me it is all in my head... he is a knowledgeable guy, but I think his expectations are pretty high.

    Tomorrow I am dropping again to .25MG SL strip... it is sooo small of a tab, it is hard to believe it'll hold me. But, I am going forward with it because I spend every day wishing I was off the sub train.

    I am also very scared of the jump. My original habit did not warrant a sub treatment (went to a clinic originally, cash only). But that is history and I am where I am.

    I have just about every comfort med you could think of to help me once I jump. I have 4 kids and a full-time job to try to keep in order, too!

    I thank anyone in advance for any words of wisdom to help me get the courage up to quit (CT or skip days, haven't decided yet).

    --Tim

    Hi Tim -

    Boy do I know how you feel. I came here nearly 4 years ago in the same place and same situation you're dealing with. Cat mentioned my thread and I'll provide the link so you can take a look if you have the time. It's long, but full of great advice and suggestions from many members. Wouldn't be where I am now with nearly 4 years clean without them. Here's the link:

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...ump-65786.html

    Ask all the questions you have. You've done an outstanding job getting to where you are now. The last part of the taper is most certainly doable once you make your mind up that you really want off and nothing in the way of symptoms will stop you.

    Randy

  6. #6
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Thanks to all that replied. Amazing that people would be so kind to a complete stranger. I can’t reply on my work pc, only my phone during the day. So let me just say I made the drop this morning and am feeling okay, so far.

    I will post again this evening when I get home from work.

    Tim
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  7. #7
    David256 is offline Member
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    Good for you Tim. Glad to see and hear about your progress. We all hope to taper off subs with success!
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  8. #8
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Hi Wavision-

    I really didn't notice a lot of symptoms during my taper down. Maybe a little anxiety and stomach issues, but hardly anything. I also have kept one single dose in the morning, not splitting. Having the 2 mg strips has made cutting the doses easier, IMO. I dropped to .25 mg today and haven't noticed much. I think the long half-life smooths things out.

    I never thought I'd get down this low when I was at the 1 mg mark. But it really has been OK following the taper protocol here. Just remember to be stable before making a drop.

    You are doing fantastic! I plan on following your progress.

    Tim

  9. #9
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Beef, Cat and Randy -

    Thanks a bunch for posting on my new thread. Very kind of you all, and all with great information.

    Today I dropped to .25 mg without much issue. I was worried such a small piece of medicine would cover me, but it seems to be. Randy, 4 years, cat 8 years and beef 4 months, all clean. That is remarkable. You really think I can do it? As you can see, I question myself. I am gaining some courage, though.

    As far as meetings go, I have never attended any. Not that I wouldn't, I just have no knowledge of them. I do go to a therapist once a week... that seems to help. We talk about ways to calm my nerves and reduce stress.

    Question: I have loads of comfort meds for when I jump, but I am really mainly afraid of two symptoms... 1) anxiety 2) insomnia. I have klonopin for nerves and ambien for sleep. Both are habit forming, which I don't really like, but I have a feeling I am going to need them to help cope. Did any of you make it through WD's without any additional meds?

    Maybe I need to finish reading all of Randy's thread to get my answers... I did read a bit and it is striking how similar the situations are.

    Once again, thanks so much for your time and expertise... I am truly appreciative!

    Tim

  10. #10
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    You're doing so well!! The answer for me is no. I didn't use anything. I toughed it out and it all fell into place. Challenging? Sure was but I'm glad that I was able to make it through. While opiates were my Ruler, now that I freely admit I'm an addict I remain more than conservative where meds are concerned in general. I had 3 1mg Xanex at the start of my detox. I used 2 of them to help sleep during the first week and the last maybe 10 or so days in. I'm sure I could have laid my hands on more and believe me when I say I considered it. So, personally I'd give my best shot to use herbal or over the counter things like Melatonin or Sleepy Time Tea. There are also some non-addictive prescription aids available. One such is Lunesta that I did take for a time during one of my previous detox/recovery times. It worked fairly well. I used them for a few weeks and had no trouble stopping. That's my experience with it anyway.

    As far as the anxiety goes, try deep breathing and get as much exercise as you can. I used to scoff at meditation and I still don't know if I know it right or not but it honestly does work to get into a quiet room, sit or lay quietly and concentrate on your breathing and to empty your mind. It does work. Things get better in a matter of just a few weeks but I agree that the insomnia can be a killer. What I used to call anxiety I've decided was mostly chalked up to cravings. I'd identify it as that, my brain begging to be fed what I didn't intend on feeding it and that anxious feeling would pass. Let me tell you, I had that inner conversation frequently in the beginning but then less and less as the cravings subsided.

    Hope this helped.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  11. #11
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    PS Yes! Of course I believe you can make it. We all can so long as we want it bad enough and are willing to do whatever it takes. You're doing just that. No doubt about it. One more success story in the making right here.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  12. #12
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefigurehead View Post
    Beef, Cat and Randy -

    Thanks a bunch for posting on my new thread. Very kind of you all, and all with great information.

    Today I dropped to .25 mg without much issue. I was worried such a small piece of medicine would cover me, but it seems to be. Randy, 4 years, cat 8 years and beef 4 months, all clean. That is remarkable. You really think I can do it? As you can see, I question myself. I am gaining some courage, though.

    As far as meetings go, I have never attended any. Not that I wouldn't, I just have no knowledge of them. I do go to a therapist once a week... that seems to help. We talk about ways to calm my nerves and reduce stress.

    Question: I have loads of comfort meds for when I jump, but I am really mainly afraid of two symptoms... 1) anxiety 2) insomnia. I have klonopin for nerves and ambien for sleep. Both are habit forming, which I don't really like, but I have a feeling I am going to need them to help cope. Did any of you make it through WD's without any additional meds?

    Maybe I need to finish reading all of Randy's thread to get my answers... I did read a bit and it is striking how similar the situations are.

    Once again, thanks so much for your time and expertise... I am truly appreciative!

    Tim


    Can you do this......Of course you can. And you're well on your way to getting there. Best feeling in the world not to have to count on a drug to get me through the day. You're doing all the right things and it will pay off and you'll be successful.

    Comfort meds - Only thing I used was some Imodium as I experienced some diarrhea once I was off the subs. Had some lethargy or lack of energy and took some vitamins and got some extra protein in my diet. I also used some Sleepy Time Tea made real strong, and sometimes Melatonin, and even the two together for sleep issues. Worked for me. I myself would stay far away from those addictive meds you have. Way too easy to get in trouble with them.

    As I always recommend everyone do, I went to my doctor for a complete physical including lab work. Turns out my Testosterone was so low it was ridiculous. Opiates do that to us. I began getting T-injections for a few weeks and my stamina returned 100%. Make an appt with your doctor for a check up. Can't hurt right?

    Randy

  13. #13
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    I agree with Randy. You definitely can do this. Don't be scared, get excited!! Soon you won't have to worry about that little piece of sub and you'll be out enjoying your life.

    I also didn't take any comfort meds for the fear of substituting one for the other. I probably could have gotten a script for valium, or xanax. But I know I'm a gobbler and it wouldn't of been good. I did go out and get a bunch of supplements though. I got a good multivitamin, b-12, b-complex, DLPA (amazing amino acid, helps repair brain) calm support, and of course Imodium.

    I also took valerian root and washed it down with a strong cup of sleepy time tea (thanks for that one Randy and Cat) for sleep.
    RLS, took hylands restful legs when needed, also bananas and protein!!!

    I didn't feel it right away but the clouds lifted and I knew they were working. I had to work through my detox which was brutal, but it honestly helped out so much. Of course I whined and didn't want to get out of bed or off the couch. But it forced me to be active for 8-10 hours a day.

    Just keep tapering. The lower you go the better it Wil be for you!!

    Keep your head up!!
    You can do this!
    Beef
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  14. #14
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Day 2 at .25mg and it feels fine. I slept great last night, too. I think I'll set up a appointment with my PCP and get my T checked. It is something I have worried about and Randy brining it up is more reason to get looked over.

    I am off to work now for what seems like a busy day. Hopefully I will concentrate on work and not stress about my forthcoming Jump!

    Thanks again for all the answers and support. DDC is a nice place to be.

    Tim

  15. #15
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefigurehead View Post
    Day 2 at .25mg and it feels fine. I slept great last night, too. I think I'll set up a appointment with my PCP and get my T checked. It is something I have worried about and Randy brining it up is more reason to get looked over.

    I am off to work now for what seems like a busy day. Hopefully I will concentrate on work and not stress about my forthcoming Jump!

    Thanks again for all the answers and support. DDC is a nice place to be.

    Tim
    Tim do you plan on tapering any lower than.25? Or doing the skip days?


    Good to see you are feeling good and sleeping great.
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  16. #16
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Hi Wa -

    I plan on going to the lowest dose possible then jumping.Being at .25mg has been yucky today, unfortunately. Mild cravings and some anxiety. Doesn't help that work is crazy, too.

    How are you doing? Hopefully you are on that single dose soon if not already.

    Tim

  17. #17
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefigurehead View Post
    Hi Wa -

    I plan on going to the lowest dose possible then jumping.Being at .25mg has been yucky today, unfortunately. Mild cravings and some anxiety. Doesn't help that work is crazy, too.

    How are you doing? Hopefully you are on that single dose soon if not already.

    Tim
    Yeah that's my plan as well. Hopefully it turns around for you tomorrow.

    You've made it this far, I'm sure you got this handled.

    Work has been crazy for me too, but luckily I work from home. Hopefully that makes this a little less stressful when I finally jump.

    I was supposed to drop down to the single dose this coming Friday, but I've got a lot going on Saturday and need to be as normal as possible, so I'm going to wait to drop until Sunday.

    I just don't know how I will feel 2 days into dropping to the single dose, so I'm gonna wait an extra day or two.
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  18. #18
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Another day at .25mg... having some mild anxiety pop up and stomach issues, but still sleeping great. Busy work has kept my mind off most of the other issues.

    I plan to stay on .25mg until I am 100% stable, then I will skip days or drop once more. This is not a race, right?

    I have gabapentin and clonidine ready for when I make the jump. Pray they help.

    I also went to my therapist yesterday... it was a good session and she told me some ways to occupy my time when wd'ing.

    How would I find a meeting? Just curious?

    Tim

  19. #19
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Tim, you sound so focused and ready to be done. And it sounds like you have done everything right as far as tapering goes. I don’t think your finally jump is going to be bad at all. You got this!!
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  20. #20
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    I am on my 3rd or so day at .25mg of a strip. Symptoms so far are anxiety and leg cramps in the morning. I think I need to exercise some more. Maybe that'll help calm things down? Also, what is this stuff called restful legs? I hear about it but is it a script from the doc or OTC? I don't think I have RLS, just muscle cramping.

    Happy Saturday to all!
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  21. #21
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    It's called hylands restful legs. And its OTC. Works wonders for some. Definitely worth a shot. I think hylands has some other products available also.
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  22. #22
    Wavision is offline Member
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    How ya doing figure??

    I picked up some hylands restful legs for when I jump. Haven't had to use it yet, so don't know how well it works, but I have some for when needed.

    It's cheap...like $5 for 50 tablets. Worth a shot in my opinion.
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  23. #23
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    How ya doing figure??

    I picked up some hylands restful legs for when I jump. Haven't had to use it yet, so don't know how well it works, but I have some for when needed.

    It's cheap...like $5 for 50 tablets. Worth a shot in my opinion.
    I have been having leg cramps in the morning right before I get up. Maybe I should just take it as a sign to get my butt out of bed... I will hit up the local CVS and get a pack of restful legs and try it out. Can't hurt, I guess.

    Day 4 at .25mg and things seem to be okay. A lot of yawning and tears in my eyes, but I am still sleeping well. I think next I will cut to .125 mg and see how my body reacts. If all goes well, I should be skipping days in a week of so.

  24. #24
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    I think I am going to stay at .25mg for a few more days. In the afternoon, I don’t feel the best: yawning, stuffy nose, eyes watering and anxiety. So maybe I am not stable. I also have a huge meeting at work on the 7th, so I want to be able to function for a few more days. Kind of a cop out I know, but all the advice I see says it is not a race.

    So my skip days will start in three days.

  25. #25
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Yes, def a marathon not a sprint.

    You're doing great and are almost completely free. Congrats on your progress.

  26. #26
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Default So Tired

    Is being tired a symptom of WD? I know I am still taking .25mg in the morning, but by 9:00 p.m., I am ready for bed. I don't feel the lead suit so much (that Beef talks about), more of just exhausted. I lay down in bed and listen to a half hour of BBC World Service and fall asleep. I do take melatonin at 6 mg to help me stay asleep.

    Maybe I shouldn't complain! Sleep sounds like it is a luxury once you jump off all sub.
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  27. #27
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey tim. Yeah I know I was in zombie mode for about a month or so when I jumped. No sleep paired with my lead suit (lol) just killed me. But i dont think youll have as difficult a time as i had. Youre killing this taper and the lower you go the easier youre gonna make it on yourself. And im really glad youre gonna do the skip days. They'll soften your landing even more! I saw you were a bit intimidated by the Imodium on someone elses post. Dont be. Imodium was my best friend. It is technically an opiate but it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. There are a lot of horror stories of people becoming addicted to Imodium. Try not to read those, those are rare cases and if Imodium is taken as needed and directed you'll be fine. For me one dose would last me about 2-3 days before I'd have to take it again. It doesnt completely plug you up, but it'll make going to the bathroom much more bearable.

    Sorry I haven't been around as much as I should be, but you've been receiving great advice from Randy, and every one else and I haven't had much to add. Just know I look for your updates every day and I've been lurking and keeping up with your story. You're doing such an amazing job and this will be over for you real soon. I'm so proud of you and so happy for you.

    Keep up the good work my friend!!
    Beef
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  28. #28
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefaroni7272 View Post
    Hey tim. Yeah I know I was in zombie mode for about a month or so when I jumped. No sleep paired with my lead suit (lol) just killed me. But i dont think youll have as difficult a time as i had. Youre killing this taper and the lower you go the easier youre gonna make it on yourself. And im really glad youre gonna do the skip days. They'll soften your landing even more! I saw you were a bit intimidated by the Imodium on someone elses post. Dont be. Imodium was my best friend. It is technically an opiate but it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. There are a lot of horror stories of people becoming addicted to Imodium. Try not to read those, those are rare cases and if Imodium is taken as needed and directed you'll be fine. For me one dose would last me about 2-3 days before I'd have to take it again. It doesnt completely plug you up, but it'll make going to the bathroom much more bearable.

    Sorry I haven't been around as much as I should be, but you've been receiving great advice from Randy, and every one else and I haven't had much to add. Just know I look for your updates every day and I've been lurking and keeping up with your story. You're doing such an amazing job and this will be over for you real soon. I'm so proud of you and so happy for you.

    Keep up the good work my friend!!
    Beef

    Thanks for the info Beef -

    It is weird... today I didn't feel so tired and no lead suit. Maybe it is time to make the final drop? Sure would like to wake up and not have to take a darn sub.

    I plan on buying some imodium liquid soon. All I have are the OTC generic pills. Seems folks rave about the liquid, so that is what I will pick up.

    No major symptoms today... a few yawns and a very short hot flash. Anxiety is still there but not overwhelming.

    I will post more updates tomorrow!

    Tim
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  29. #29
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Just a quick update here... I have been hit with some nasty boredom and anxiety. I really think I need to exercise. Work meetings are terribly hard to get through. Just very ansy. I need to calm down and relax.

  30. #30
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Default Next Drop Question

    So I am at .25 mg now looking to drop again on this taper. Do I go 25% or do I go 50% all the way tp .125 mg?

    I feel physically stable at my current dose. Just mentally whacked a bit. I am antsy and bored... not keeping myself busy enough.
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