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and here I go."Lurker" no more.
  1. #1
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Default and here I go."Lurker" no more.

    Terrified of the unknown and following the steps of those before me with a suboxone taper. I have been "Lurking" for over a year. After at least 2 dozen withdraw from oxycodone 120-160 mg daily for 2.6 years. I am a chronic pain patient and had a monthly script. More important I am a Wife and Mom- I neglected my family and just gobbled pills. I cut myself off from that option and started suboxone on 02/23/2017. I am at 8 mg of sub- yes-it's a lot and begin the drop tomorrow.
    Seeing an addictionologist, have 1 on 1 therapy and see phyc. dr on the 8th. I do have physical pain but learned that an extra 4 daily really helped the emotional pain as well. I am 38-this is not the life I want to live.Began physical therapy last week.
    I am scared. Why is the anxiety so high?
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  2. #2
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiLP View Post
    Terrified of the unknown and following the steps of those before me with a suboxone taper. I have been "Lurking" for over a year. After at least 2 dozen withdraw from oxycodone 120-160 mg daily for 2.6 years. I am a chronic pain patient and had a monthly script. More important I am a Wife and Mom- I neglected my family and just gobbled pills. I cut myself off from that option and started suboxone on 02/23/2017. I am at 8 mg of sub- yes-it's a lot and begin the drop tomorrow.
    Seeing an addictionologist, have 1 on 1 therapy and see phyc. dr on the 8th. I do have physical pain but learned that an extra 4 daily really helped the emotional pain as well. I am 38-this is not the life I want to live.Began physical therapy last week.
    I am scared. Why is the anxiety so high?
    Welcome!

    I'm glad that you've stopped just lurking and started your own thread. What a great place this is, right?

    You are beginning to do all of the right things and anxiety is just a part of the package at this point. You said you're taking 8mg/day and that is a lot. You may be surprised that you'll likely feel better when you get your dose down some. If you follow the plan (and I recommend doing just that), you will reduce by 25% or to 6mg and I bet you won't feel a difference.

    I think that much of your anxiety is caused by the unknown. I see that you have detoxed before so you do know that much but subs are different. Take it slow and trust the process and you'll be OK. The unknown that we fear is whether we can stick this out and get clean. Then we worry about being able to stay that way. Simply put, we just don't trust ourselves because we've let ourselves down before. The good news is that you only have to get this right once and then never have to do it again.

    Of course you're worried about your pain and whether it's going to effect your quality of life. I'll tell you what. You've probably read this other places on this Forum but I can vouch that once you are clean for just a little while, you will be astonished how much the over the counter stuff helps. I didn't believe that either but it is absolutely 100% true.

    Post often. It helps so much to have this safe place to be completely honest with yourself. Whine, vent, share the good days and the bad days. Ask questions. This is a very generous group and everyone is willing to share whatever tips they've learned on their own journey.

    Here you go.....YAY and my best wishes.

    Peace,

    Cat

  3. #3
    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    Default Nikki

    Welcome you are in a place for good advice from people who have been there, I am not going to blab too much but will say sometimes when on subs you go thru withdrawals i.e anxiety and other wds symptoms even though you are taking it and should not be in wds, It happened to me on and off and was rare but it happened you can read up on side effects and see if its anything like you feel just throwing it out there hope it helps and I think you will be fine!!
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  4. #4
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you both for taking time out of your day to respond. I am waiting for the shoe to drop and something horrible to present. Big sigh..I have therapy tomorrow and will be meeting with the sub doctor after.

    My 20 year old daughter told me yesterday that my eyes sparkle and I seem more in touch with her. My heart broke. I have put my family through it. We planted roses together. Never would have done that in cold turkey detox.


    Changes are being made..this entire process has been terrifying but doable.
    Learned through the forum the Thomas recipe and how important Imodium can be. Not taking anything with the sub..just wanted to thank those who left those tips.

    My hands are on fire..sweating..anxiety is high. Have a lump in my throat. Depression and anxiety helped get me here. I am scared of here..so many what it's and tons of guilt. That's what therapy is for .
    Blessings to you both.
    Nikki
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  5. #5
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    That's what therapy is for. Yes it is. Your body feeling like it is on fire may be because the dose you are taking is too high. Subs are strange and completely different than ordinary opiates. Less is more. With the ordinary opiate, we tend to take more to feel better. The exact opposite is true for subs. Take too much and you feel worse. How much and of what were you taking before you started the subs? You've probably read enough here to have seen that it's rare that anyone needs more than 4mg/day unless they have been taking extraordinary doses of other things or when coming off of methadone. Everyone is a bit different, of course but even for people who have been taking as much as 250-300mg/day of say, oxy, they were able to get stable of 4mg. For those who were taking +/- 100-120mg/day it's not unusual to be able to get stable on 2 or 3mg/day. I shouldn't be generalizing because there are just so many variables from person to person. I just wanted to try and give you an idea of what usually works for most people. Subs are so strong.

    Frankly, you've managed to do it trickiest part and that's to be sure that you are sufficiently into withdrawal before taking your first dose. The half life of sub is very long but you've only been taking it for a few days. If I were you, I'd get that first reduction under my belt. it'll build up in your system very quickly. Hope I'm not scaring you more. I don't intend to. You're in a good place to begin to get your dose down now and then begin the 25% reduction every 4 or 5 days . That's all.

    Therapy will be a very good thing for you. Long term sobriety is hard enough but being unable to forgive yourself only makes it harder. Work on doing things that you can be proud of--like planting roses with your daughter . With a little help and time, you'll be able to let go of the past. There's nothing you can do about that anyway. What counts is what we do today one day at a time. That's it.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  6. #6
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Many thanks Catrina. You lifted my spirits and are correct. I promised myself many times that I'd be responsible and only take them as prescribed. My script was straight oxycodone 15 mg and I would eat between 8 -10 a day. Made connections along the way and somehow over the last 2 months it grew into a monster. A soul sucking who the heck am I anymore monster. My husband would supplement me with Percocet script. My twin could be convinced to go to Dr or urgent care.
    There were many times I wanted to reach out but fear kept me from it. The tipping point was a new Dr. Who is a creep and holding 30 mg knowing they had H in them and swallowing them anyway but being sure to mix with benzo..
    I told my husband I was scared that I could see my death coming. He said he was sacred of watching me breathe at night.He said the wrong combo was coming my way..I mixed with morphine..what ever I could find.
    I would never take Tylenol 3 years ago. I had heart surgery when I was 30 and had been so cautious. Oxycodone felt like a warm hug..I was home.
    No counting or craving for pills..subs are strong and I will go down to 6 tomorrow. The burning is in anxiety attacks. Very psychosomatic right now.
    Very thankful for the forum. Read so many threads over the last few years..Uncle Leo and Randy35 Have my attention right now. Just thank you. If there is a lurker..it is scary to start. Terrifying to know opiate addiction is put in your chart..I used these as excuses for over 2 years..this road is rocky. I jumped in with both feet and my family can see and comments on the differs. There is support here..dropping to 6 tomorrow. Read the sticky and will do this 1 time the right way to never be repeated. Illirose says Progress not perfection right.

  7. #7
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Question..why did Robert (RIP) recommend dosing 2 x a day? I only dose 1 time per day..is that going to be a problem as I begin tapering? Do I divide unto 3 mg in the am and pm? Don't want to fuel addict thinking or action. WOW..I am an addict. Never saw this coming...
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  8. #8
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiLP View Post
    Question..why did Robert (RIP) recommend dosing 2 x a day? I only dose 1 time per day..is that going to be a problem as I begin tapering? Do I divide unto 3 mg in the am and pm? Don't want to fuel addict thinking or action. WOW..I am an addict. Never saw this coming...
    It really is just a matter of personal choice to dose once or twice a day. The half life is long enough that it will hold you for 24 hours without issue. The reason that Robert suggested twice is that it does satisfy an addict's need to take SOMETHING and then he recommended dosing once a day when your dose gets down to a lower dose. If you're feeling OK dosing once, then that's what you should do. That decision is entirely up to you.

    Did you reduce to 6mg today? Just asking.

    Peace,

    Cat

  9. #9
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Talking I reduced to 6 mg as planned

    Yes ma'am- I reduced to 6 mg today. For some reason I fill fluid filled..like edema in the face and hands, knees and feet. Glad I see the sub dr today-the sooner I can tapper off the better. Thought about asking for clonidine and gabapentin trazadone to just jump since I haven't been on to long. But read some scary stories and need the skills to cope with life on life's terms.Not disappointed in myself-the longest cold turkey from oxy was 18 days. Detox I can deal with-it's the after that kills me. Just so blah feeling.

    Each day I make a small goal today(mod poge a few boxes for make up storage with daughter). She's 20 she knows whats up. Kills me. Mom's are suppose to be better then this. I know your a Mom in recovery so I hope you understand the feeling. Mom's are suppose to comfort and be strong-not the other way around I am getting over Mono as an adult-so she would ask me when I was laying if it was a Throat sick or a Skin sick-meaning Mom will be better tomorrow or I lost my Mom for a week. Not losing anymore weeks-I owe myself and family this-no more lost weeks laying in bed cussing at every God/Goddess-while time ticks backwards-Shivers down my spine

    The counselor is giving me homework and I actually look forward to it; Worried about pain management-I have a connective tissue disease and my joints pop out-have arthritis and RA. In time I know regular OTC meds will work-even started physical therapy to strengthen ligaments. It's an intense workout 2 a week. With someone who is trained in Etho Danos II and I have a pool so YAY! Some is in their pool.

    Catrina-I can't isolate my big butt :P I am 5 feet even and 130 pounds- Use my back and thighs to move it.. No twerking for me :P This is such a different feeling from cold turkey. .I could eat 300 mg of oxy and cold turkey off that-OMG-7 level of Hell. I actually thought about breaking my foot for a script. Somehow even with 6 mg- I feel off...like cloudy and not all together-Hope when I get down these feelings will fade.This "floating" feeling is weird.

    I am sure it's the high level of subs and am aware of it stacking in my system-Yuck- but I couldn't cold turkey anymore..I didn't have another 1 in me.This Dr. is a sub taper 6-8 weeks..she said she would give me 12 weeks if needed. To gain some strength and knowledge. I went 35 yrs without an opiate daily..my brain knows this-How to live and cope without an opiate why is it questioning?It has to be saturated by now.
    Blessings,
    Nikki
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  10. #10
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    So Dr said to divide dose to 2 a day. She feels thAt will keep anxiety attacks down in the pm. Counselor gave me a book to read by Dr. Gassler..homework is to try not to control everything. Honestly feel physically awesome until night or have time to sit and think. Big sigh. Oxy cravings are here. WTF is that about? Have phyc appt tomorrow. Already know..depressed and anxiety..came before opiate addiction aches in hips and hands but it rained..normal time for me to double dose because of pain. Know true pain level is unknown. Tylenol..pbysical therapy tonight. All in all 90 percent..sub is powerful
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  11. #11
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Nikki
    Glad your doc's on board. Read Robert325's taper plan and memorize it!! You can do this! The shorter amount of time u stay on subs the better, he suggests. 6 mg is a fairly high dose.
    You will never regret deciding to be free! Life is tough anyway. Who needs the extra burden of addiction!!??
    Post when u can...
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  12. #12
    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    Default lurker

    subs are very powerful use them at a minimum,Its hard to believe but less does the job most of the time so keep that in mind. I hope things keep going well for you keep positive when cravings hit try to divert to something else to keep your mind distracted they usually last about 20 minutes, keep up the good work and keep us posted.
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  13. #13
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Default Are you kidding me?! Life is so mean!

    Hi Zebra, Ming and Catrina!

    Sorry I haven't updated; typed out a message and it was lost. So here is the update: Hubby got hurt and Percocet was prescribed. The pharmacist looked so confused as hubby was picking up his script and 3 suboxone strips for me. So somewhere in the house or car or yard is percocet.

    Hubby tore his cartilage and main ligament off the top of his bone in foot and may need surgery-little bone fragments are everywhere.
    Remember how I mentioned he would supplement my script? That was 6 pills from urgent care-this injury is serious and a whole different ball game.

    So my promises to him and you guys: I WILL NOT ASK for a pill. I WILL NOT ASK WHERE the pills are. Those are his for him. I am at 6 mg of sub and would not feel a pill; it's pointless and my dr. drug test me at every visit. I will NOT undue any small progress I made. These pills have been in the house since the 2nd..I had a dream I found them and ate 7..was panicked when I woke up.

    Spoke with addictionologist about edema in face and feet..she said suboxone does cause it. I am planning to go to 5 milligrams this week..Hope I feel better at 4 mg but this drug is scary and needs respected and feared. I am letting her know that pills are in the house and ask for advice.

    I am unsure what recovery means and if I am doing enough to help heal my thoughts and actions: I meet with psychologist and was prescribed Cymbalta-it hits regular depression chemicals but has shown promise with pain management. Still reading Choice Theory by Dr. Glasser. Depression and OCD with anxiety led me to take 1 xtra..it slowed my thoughts and made me feel better. Still meet with a counselor 1 on 1.

    Don't know how to feel about the disease theory. Is this a character defect? How much is genetics? Will I ever be able to take opiates responsibly if I need surgery? Did extra gates form? Will they close and die? am I less then others? Am I doing enough? Chit this is hard!!

    Physical therapy is helping..at least I have some level of control over 1 aspect of my physical health.

    My sisters are both recovering alcoholics/meth slamming for 1..she asked if I'd go to an AA meeting with er today at 5. Said yes..just to test it out..learn and see.

    Wishing everyone success and hope,
    Nikki-former lurker-

  14. #14
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Don't know how to feel about the disease theory. Is this a character defect? How much is genetics? Will I ever be able to take opiates responsibly if I need surgery? Did extra gates form? Will they close and die? am I less then others? Am I doing enough? Chit this is hard!!

    Hi Nikki,

    Glad you checked in. You are doing all the right things so long as you're not just going through the motions and you're being an active participant in your therapy and your recovery. One of the beauties of the slow taper of subs is that it will give you some time to break some of the addict behaviors.

    To answer your questions--NO this is not a character defect. There is a gene that increases the risk of addiction. That doesn't mean everyone who has that gene becomes an addict, it just means that we're more susceptible to it. NO. Once we cross that line into addiction, it's unlikely if not impossible to ever be trusted to take opiates in a responsible manner. Even taking that one extra Cymbalta is addict behavior. With some practice, you'll see it coming and hopefully your recovery tool box will have enough in it that you'll begin to deal with things differently.

    Oh the "What If's". I think that we all go through that. I know I did. To be perfectly honest, I think in the back of my mind I was planning for my relapse and surgery is an awesome excuse. I've got some significant back issues myself. Once I got clean, I was mostly able to control it with over the counter stuff like Aleve or Motrin. Then, in 2015, nothing worked anymore and I knew it was time for surgery. Last February I had my back surgery and only took Motrin while in the hospital. They discharged me with a big fat bottle of 5mg percocet. I took one the first night I was home, used Motrin the following day and took one more the second night. Turned out that the Motrin controlled the discomfort every bit as well as the percocet did. I got rid of the rest of them. The trick is to allow the over the counter stuff to work and then get honest with yourself so that you can separate pain relief from the buzz. That's what happens...we associate pain relief with a buzz. Once we dispel that notion, we realize that Motrin really does work. No "What If's". One day at a time. We can't worry how we'll handle our pain next week, we just have to get through today.

    Good to see that you've reduced and ready to go down to 5. Stick with the plan, participate in your recovery by making good use of your therapist and get to meetings as often as you can. Embrace all those thoughts so that you can sort them out. With practice, you'll get quite good at it.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  15. #15
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Nikki
    Lol. You're doing fine. Just keep focused on the taper. Familiarize yourself w Robert325's plan because it works. It has saved thousands of folks just on this forum! I'm one of them.
    Forget abt analyzing cause. It doesn't matter in the end. What becomes important is the effect, which is addiction and everything that goes w that lifestyle. Changing that will change the rest.
    You can do this. You're on a hefty dose and edema is problematic. Remember the 25% taper plan and consider reducing ur present dose. Up to you. Post when u can...
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-06-2017 at 01:55 PM.
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  16. #16
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Went to AA..

  17. #17
    BonoFan is offline New Member
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    What happened to Robert? I noticed the RIP. I thought he just left the forum?

  18. #18
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Catrina..I have always played the parent and caretaker. My dad was a very violent drunk and he drank daily. My twin and I jumped to protect our mom she was 4 11 and 99 pounds. He came at her with a pick ax. My mom lost herself years before she past at 42 from a chronic illness Mom struggled with meth. I seen it a lot growing up..tried it. Didn't click for me. My dad continued drinking then found benzo..took my mom's hospice meds..he died At 43. While this was happening my little sister who was 18 started slamming meth..stabbed my friend and was sent to prison for 3 yrs. My twin was on her 2 nd divorce and a horrible alcoholic. I never took anything. I wouldn't do that to my daughter's. They deserved stability. I held my sister's hands..the fixed.
    The first 7-8 months I took oxy as prescribed. Noticed the 10 wasn't working told Dr he upped to 15..for the last 1 year and 9 months..it turned on me. Became a living hell. So hard to reach a buzz..the cold turkey detox monthly..sometimes weekly depending on flow..I read tips to get through. This forum is were I learned about suboxone and read Roberts tapper. I am trying at all fronts.
    tried to fix this myself and I can't. There is decay in my hips..I do have RA and Etho Danos II..am using lidocaine gel Voltaren gel and metoloxicam. Waiting for pain level to drop to see if it was opiate induced.
    There is a lot I need to let go off. My little sister took me to AA..we are checking out a NA..physical therapy is still going. I have saved solo much money. Edema went away after 6 mg..thanks for stopping by.

  19. #19
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Default Advice and reassurance because I am filled with anxiety

    Dr. Has now prescribed 2 mg 3 times a day.
    I am determined to start 4 mg. That will give me a few extra subs. There was a problem with my insurance again and it is terrifying that I could be without medication. Plus 4 Is still pretty saturated and I should be stable right? Catrina? Zebra and Ming? Randy..have you read my thread?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-07-2017 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Added header

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    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Ming...I only. Want to do this 1 time.
    It's a lot to learn and scary because it's new. Big girl panties on..Thank you

  21. #21
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi Nikki,

    What happened to Robert? I noticed the RIP. I thought he just left the forum? Robert retired from the Forum several years ago and has since passed. He will always be remembered, not only from those who were a part of this Forum when he was still active here, but the thousands of folks who have, or will benefit from his knowledge and support..

    The other day you posted that you were ready to reduce to 5mg/day. Did you do that? That "floating" feeling that you are experiencing is the effects of the sub. They are strong! I've seen estimates that they are 30 times stronger than morphine. Even though you had been taking a good amount of a short acting opiate, beginning at 8mg/day is kinda like swatting a fly with a sledge hammer. What's done is done and now it's just time to move on and follow Robert's Plan. You will feel much better as you get to a much lower dose. Especially, now because your dose is still high, you shouldn't have any problem reducing every 4 or 5 days by the 25% recommended. Each reduction may be just a little different. Some will go smoothly while others may cause some minor physical issues. For those reductions that do cause a bit of discomfort, power on through it and you'll level out after a couple of days. Most often, the first day of your reduction, you won't feel much, if any difference. If you are going to feel it, Days 2 and 3 would be those days and the hopefully, Day 4 will have you stabilized and you'll be ready to reduce on the 5th day. You'll begin to know what to expect and will learn how to listen to your body so that you'll know when it's time to reduce or if you should stick with the same dose for another day or two. The Plan has become the standard used on this Forum but it can and should be tweaked if needed by either remaining at the same dose for a day or even a few extra days or be making smaller reductions, especially when you get to very low doses. Slower is OK so long as you're moving in the right direction and don't stop at any one dose for too long.

    I sympathize with your back story and family life. Mine is oh so very similar. I'm the middle child of 7. My father was the Town Drunk and my mother checked out years before she died from cancer. I essentially raised my 3 younger siblings beginning when I was 13 years old. I have one older brother who has spent most of his life in jail because of substance abuse issues and another younger brother who died from an overdose. My mother battled the cancer for around 6 years and was bed ridden a good amount of that time. By then, I was married with two small children of my own, worked a full time job and helped to take care of our family business (my husband's).. My father was simply too busy being drunk and even though she had 7 kids, I was the only one to step up to the plate for her care taking. I also acted as care taker for both of my in-laws during their last years of life. All of them lived with me when they were just too sick to be at home anymore and needed more care. So many years that I was my own very low priority.. It becomes so deeply ingrained that "fixing" things for others becomes one of the only things that validates us and taking care of ourselves just doesn't feel right. It made me feel selfish. BUT if we're going to achieve long term sobriety, learning to put ourselves and our recovery at the top of that priority list is essential. Hard! But essential. We have to find the balance.

    I still work full time and I'm still taking care of the family business and now I'm helping with my grandchildren.My daughter is a single parent of two, works full time and is working on her Masters in Nursing. My grandson lives with me full time (he's almost 17) and my granddaughter gets dropped off every weekday morning. So, my day begins with making breakfast, packing lunches, and providing transportation to school. They are seven years apart so are on different schedules. I have to be up and out of bed by 5:30 so that I can get them off and be at work by 8:30. They both come back to my house after school looking for their after school snack and it's time to begin to prepare dinner. My son is an active H addict and lives with me too. So, the fun continues. I have had to learn to take care of me first (even though it doesn't sound that way). It's important and I relate it to having flight attendants instruct us to put on our oxygen masks BEFORE we help someone else. We have to be safe and healthy to be of any use to anyone else.

    That's my very sad story. I've managed to stack up 7 years of recovery by forgiving myself for my addiction and by doing the next right thing. I fulfill that need to "fix" things by regularly doing random acts of kindness for strangers. That validates my self worth without sacrificing myself. Balance. We can be good, generous people without being a martyr. Learning how to be just a little selfish without the guilt is the healthy thing to do. Not saying it doesn't take work, because it does but the payoff is being able to stay clean.

    Stay strong. This will be among the hardest things you've ever done but it will also be the most rewarding.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  22. #22
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Catrina... wish there was a love bottom. Your response was perfect. Thank you for sharing...it was BonoFan was asking about Robert..I am down to 5 mg..be at 4 in a few days..the floating burning left at 7 mg. More I need to say

  23. #23
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiLP View Post
    Dr. Has now prescribed 2 mg 3 times a day.
    I am determined to start 4 mg. That will give me a few extra subs. There was a problem with my insurance again and it is terrifying that I could be without medication. Plus 4 Is still pretty saturated and I should be stable right? Catrina? Zebra and Ming? Randy..have you read my thread?

    Hi Nikki -

    Yes, I just finished reading through your thread. You are doing Awesome and have received wonderful advice from Cat and the others. If you continue following the taper plan you'll end up jumping when the time comes with very few, if any problems. Try not to over-think this process, let it happen naturally. Reduce when stable and you'll be fine.

    You mentioned the doctor wanting you to dose 3x per day? We never recommend doing that as it's addicitve behavior, something you want to avoid. There is NEVER a need to take sub 3x a day. Never. As Cat said it's very strong, and yes it's about 30x stronger than morphine. Dosing twice is ok, but to be honest sub is intended to be taken once per day due to it's very long half life. A single dose will last 24 hours. It's fine to take 2 doses when you're over 1mg per day. When you get down to 1mg and lower ti's time to take just one dose daily. That will help prepare you to be off the sub soon.

    Keep doing what you're doing Nikki.

    Randy
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  24. #24
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Default Started 4 mg today :) Here is Why:

    Well..I made up my mind and went to 4 mg today :P

    How the dr. writes the script leaves me with 0 subs if something went wrong if I missed appt with her. A flat tire, traffic jam, car overheating, hubby working late. Just LIFE happens-even in recovery and with the pharmacy not knowing how to bill my insurance I would have been without suboxone for 2 days. The pharmacist gave me 4 2 mg strips. If I didn't have the 2 mg left from previous dose reductions-I could be hurting.

    2 X now the pharmacy has left me dry-called pharmacy manager and it won't be an issue anymore. (Doubt this)


    I figure 6 isn't much different then 8 mg and 4 mg is where majority land softly. So it's 4 mg..will know within 3 days if it's a problem right? Don't see it being 1 am not going to be checking for symptoms-just living. You all with Robert 35 (RIP) seen this work and lived it. Done this and survived...go TEAM!!

    Randy, I just nodded my head at Dr. NO WAY I would dose 3 x a day..I do 3mg am 1mg pm..Once I know for myself 4 mg is good to go I will dose 1 a day like I did the first 6 days..will eat tick tacks Wash dishes by hand-play with my pet rats

    Catrina, I give you my word I am not going through the motions-I am over the multiple highs and lows each day from redosing with oxycodone. I am tired of running out crying into an empty bottle coming up with things to sell; return to store; not pay a bill to feel normal. It was only 10x a month I could get high-the rest was rapid tapering then withdraw..then immodium and benzo..RLS sweating-ya know the week from hell. Hated the way my sheets felt-ew.

    My little sister and twin have commented how different I am-it hurts to know how warped my brain is/was..thought it was hidden..NOT! Hubby is happy-he said he is proud!!! Can't fall back..I am trying so hard. Cravings aren't intense and happen during high stress-yesterday I went with my twin..we have to but her beloved Doodle to sleep- 9 yr old pit mastiff mix-best most loving dog ever-my sis thought it was a uti..it was liver cancer.

    Happy when my sister called I didn't have to 1) check to see how many pills I have 2) consume at least 45 mg to shower and go. I got to be there and even though my brain is saturated-Empathy and sadness-I cried..it was great to feel sad and cry.


    With the extra 2 mg a day- I will create a cushion if I need to dose lower-DR. stops at 1mg..she says your fine..from reading I know some need .5 or.13 or.125mg some need water triation..just 1 mg seems high to jump from.

    We are all different and unique.

    Blessings and Happiness with Health Ladies and Gents- Going walking with sis after dinner
    Nikki

  25. #25
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Nikki
    Yes, 1 mg would b high to jump! Even Robert325 waited to jump til he got to .5mg. I went even lower. You might wish to taper down too. In the meantime, congrats on going to 4 mg, which is still a Hefty Dose!!
    You're doing all the right things and I promise u will never regret this good decision. Your life will b soooo much better!
    Hang in there. Stay hydrated. Drink a lot of water or Gatorade. Eat light. It will b iver soon...
    NikkiLP and Iluv2smile like this.

  26. #26
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Still alive. Started IOP intensive outpatient therapy. Down to 3 mg..building surplus for continued tapper. They do cut you off at 1mg..prayers to all. NIKKI
    Iluv2smile likes this.

  27. #27
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Hey.... your doctor office stops the taper at 1mg?

    That's generally not advised from what the experts have said, and from what I have noticed personally reading through other ppl's taper threads.

    Keep in mind like they said, 1mg sub is about 30mg morphine. But, you gotta realize, since the subs last so long in your system when someone is taking 1mg a day, there's still the previous day's doses still in their system... If you count up how much each previous day's dose contributes, you end up getting about a number that is like 3x your dose. So, someone with 1mg/day doseage really has about 3mg worth of sub in their blood system.

    So, when you take 1mg/day, you really got 3mg of sub in your body at any given time so that comes out to like 90mg of morphine in you (30:1 approx is correct). That's a lot of jump off of. The WD will be quite uncomfortable, and since it's sub the subs slowly leave your system so it's a long drawn out withdraw... often 1-2 weeks.

    I hate to sound negative and scare you, but 1mg jump will be very tough. When ppl do CT off of something like 90mg of morphine, you can expect 3-6 days of full blown WD's, so jumping 1mg/day subs will be like 1-2 weeks of not totally full blown but like 50-70% intensity WD's but spread out over 1-2 weeks.

    Can you talk to your doctor about trying to jump from 0.5 or 0.25? That would be much better and also more similar to the Robert plan and also more similar to the success stories of ppl that have successfully jumped and had minimal WD symptoms.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-01-2017 at 06:14 PM.

  28. #28
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    If it's a firm NO from the doctor's office there is still hope.

    You seem to be tapering at a slow steady pace and have a couple weeks to go. So, if you are dividing the strips into 1/4ths to make 2mg strips, what you can do is slice off like 1/8 (so half the width of a fourth) and stash that away. Use the remaining strip and pretend as if it's a full 8mg strip and cut what you need and continue with your taper that way.

    At the end when the doctor cuts you off at 1mg, you will have a big stash of 1mg slivers that you can then cut down further to help you taper to 0.5mg and 0.25mg and even 0.125mg doses.
    Ming23 likes this.

  29. #29
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    If you do decide to take me up on my suggestion... remember it is not rocket science here, don't make it too difficult on yourself.

    It's no different than cutting pie.

    So if you are given a pie each day and you cut it into 8 slices, and take 4 slices on your 4mg days.... what you would do is cut an outer ring away from the pie (like cut the crust off) and stash that ring of crust away, and then the leftover pie you got left you just divide into 8 slices like you normally would as if nothing happened, and take however many pieces it is you are due to take that day. And come the day you get cut off from your pie supply... you turn to the supply of saved crusts you got to get you through the taper.


    So, when you slice a little sliver off the end of each sub.... how do you know what mg you just sliced off? Well, you probably know what a 2mg strip looks like (a quarter of a whole sub strip), so cut one of those in half long-wise and there you go that's a 1mg strip. So you can cut off one of those from each sub, or cut off one from every other sub, and then divide the remainig sub up as if nothing ever happened. Or, you can take that 1mg strip... and cut in longwise in half again and that's what a 0.5mg strip looks like. Cut a similar sized 0.5mg piece off each sub and stash it away and then divide up what you got left as if nothing ever happened.

    I wanna again stress how important it is you have a plan and you plan ahead if its true the doctor is gonna stop you at 1mg. He just might, even if you think you can talk him out of it. He has never taken subs before, and he might gawk at you for wanting 0.5 and 0.25 doses... he might think that those do nothing but they do alot. He think might that you are obsessing over the subs, and having irrational fear of getting off the subs, and that is why you are begging to get little morsels from him. If he thinks that, he might just go ahead and say it's in your best interest to quit at 1mg and break your mental dependence on subs.. but he is completely wrong. Those little morsels are very important almost everyone here including the experts will agree with me.

    So, if you are gonna get cut off at 1mg... plan now to save a stash of slivers for when the doctor cuts you off. It will be a life saver down the road.



    Or heck... just tell the doc you accidentally dropped a strip in a wet sink and you need one extra one. Don't think he would care at all if you said that.

    With an extra full 8mg strip... that's enough for 4x 0.5mg days(2mg total), then 4x 0.25mg days (1mg total), then 4 0.125mg days (0.5mg total), and then skip days at 0.125mg.... which is another 0.5mg.

    So really, all you need is one extra 8mg strip in order to finish the taper after you do 1mg doses.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-01-2017 at 06:45 PM.

  30. #30
    NikkiLP is offline Junior Member
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    Hi all. So I have at least 13 2 mg strips set aside. Being a lucker I know 1 mg is to high. Yesterday dr reduced to 5 mg per day. I got very involved in learning how to live without pills and putting myself on stronger footing. I am going to reduce down farther from 4 mg. Thinking 3.50? For a few days..then continue 25 percent. I do wish In part I held true to original plan and Id have been off in a few days. Just needed to learn some skills..i would have fallen flat on my face.
    This entire situation is exhausting..think being anxious and over thinking is taking over. Time to buckle down..breathe deep and listen but not obsess over body.
    Blessings
    Catrina likes this.

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