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Here we go again - I need some support, let's chat! Please
  1. #61
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    Kristen......you've done such an amazing job toughing this out. You deserve all the credit in the world. I had so many people help me through tough times on this forum and im just glad I could be there for someone like you. You've made us all proud....better days are ahead and will continue to come!!
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  2. #62
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey hun,

    How's it going? Feeling alright today?

    I'll check back with you later.
    Kat
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  3. #63
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    I'm okay today. Just okay. But I have to look at it as a vast improvement.

    I am all over the web trying to find some NA meetings. There's an online one at 9 PM. There's soooo many options in my area. A lot of them are really in the ghetto of my city...So, I feel a little skeptical. There's one at my old college. Every Sat at 1 Pm.....feel a little weird, being a nurse and college grad going to a college I used to attend for NA. It's frightening! I would have mustered up the courage to go but I'm a couple hours late!

    But, I am going to go for sure, I have to just start picking some. I think I'm gonna go a lot at first and try a bunch out. I don't know.

    So, there's all these key words listed on this mass registry of meetings in my area and on what days. There's a TON of meetings EVERY day within 10 minutes of my house.
    So, Closed Discussion - addicts only. So, I guess I couldn't bring fiance?
    I am having trouble deciphering what kind of meeting is right. Some are steps, speaker, just literature, basic info, round robin?, open discussion.
    Some are closed to the public? How do you then get in?

    Someone please shed some light on this. It's all very confusing.

  4. #64
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    I'm firmly believing in surrendering to the flow of this.

    Can't undo what's been done.

    I like a lot of the quotes and literature online. There's strength in those words.
    "We faced three disturbing realizations:"
    "1.We are powerless over our addiction and our lives are unmanageable." - Well, I think I've managed, but it could be a heck of a lot better life.
    "2. Although we are not responsible for our disease we are responsible for our recovery." - I do feel responsible. Responsible for my 'disease'. I don't know how I feel about that term. I see disease from a medical stand point. Although I may feel sick and like I'm dying, I did it to myself. There's people out there who actually are, by no choice of their own, health related issues I guess is what I'm thinking about, like cancer. I completely agree with being responsible for my own recovery though. I have to be in control. There's power behind that.
    "3.We can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction. We must face our problems and our feelings." - This is a true reality for me. A very true statement. Something I have to work through. This I agree with completely. I could blame my mother's passing for my addiction (as I have wrote that it seemed to perpetuate it) and I have blamed my decisions on the way things have happened around me. The things I have no control over. That's a cycle that needs to end.

    It says it's from basic text. Is that NA text? Or is that like 12 steps?

    Just trying to get my thoughts out there. Wrap my head around this. I think this is really going to help me. I just have to find the key and the door and the one that fits. Shed some light!

  5. #65
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristen_RN View Post
    I'm okay today. Just okay. But I have to look at it as a vast improvement.

    I am all over the web trying to find some NA meetings. There's an online one at 9 PM. There's soooo many options in my area. A lot of them are really in the ghetto of my city...So, I feel a little skeptical. There's one at my old college. Every Sat at 1 Pm.....feel a little weird, being a nurse and college grad going to a college I used to attend for NA. It's frightening! I would have mustered up the courage to go but I'm a couple hours late!

    But, I am going to go for sure, I have to just start picking some. I think I'm gonna go a lot at first and try a bunch out. I don't know.

    So, there's all these key words listed on this mass registry of meetings in my area and on what days. There's a TON of meetings EVERY day within 10 minutes of my house.
    So, Closed Discussion - addicts only. So, I guess I couldn't bring fiance?
    I am having trouble deciphering what kind of meeting is right. Some are steps, speaker, just literature, basic info, round robin?, open discussion.
    Some are closed to the public? How do you then get in?

    Someone please shed some light on this. It's all very confusing.
    Hey there. How are you?

    Ok, so "speaker meeting" usually means that one or more persons share for an extended period of time. "Open discussion" means everyone who wants to share, can. "Closed meetings" means only addicts can attend. "Open meetings" means anyone can attend, including non-addicts. "Step study" is just that - we study the 12 steps, one at a time.

    Have you made a meeting yet?
    Kat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-18-2015 at 02:43 PM.
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  6. #66
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    No I haven't yet, I'm definitely going Saturday but would like to go sooner. I worked last night, late and couldn't get to sleep at all. I took a bunch of Valerian Root and had the weirdest sleep in my life. I thought I had a fight with my fiance, I tried to sleep in our room together for the first time in two weeks, lately I've slept in the guest room just because I'm all over the place up and awake and kicking around.

    But, I fell asleep with headphones in for a couple hours, but felt awake the entire time, I thought at one time I was screaming to Kris that I couldn't get away from the movie (that I fell asleep listening too) and that I tried to shut it off and I kept hearing it anyways playing in my head. It was weird. I literally have no idea if that happened or not, because I experienced a little sleep paralysis when I woke up and thought I was in the guest room, only to be right where I fell asleep with the same movie on. I moved to the guest room, WOKE UP STARVING and now I can't hardly get moving today because I fell back asleep. Valerian root is really powerful. I will give it that!

    Days after work prove to be a little rough. Feel like I just spent all my energy.

    Hoping things move along soon.
    I'm definitely excited for Sat. I think it will be good!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-19-2015 at 12:54 PM.

  7. #67
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    If anyone reads this and has trouble sleeping, I REALLY recommend Valerian Root & Passion Flower. I know I had a weird experience, but I took more than I was supposed to and it was not as trippy as melatonin is for me. I didn't think I would sleep so I bought a couple different kinds of valerian, one an extract and one a compressed pill with passion flower and hops in it. I wasn't patient enough and took two of one and one of the other. Probably a little much!

    I wish I would have used Valerian from the get instead of the benzos.
    I had a little heightened anxiety without the kpins the last few days but my mood is SO much better without them. Sleep is the last the come, I know that. I remember last time, albeit a lower dose I jumped off at it was a good few weeks until I got really good sleep.
    It almost felt like it got a tad worse before it got better.

    But try the Valerian Root! It's super good. As much as my night was crazy at first and I woke up several times, I banked quite a few hours! Now that I have managed to keep my eyes open for an hour I'm starting to feel pretty nice today!

    I also just started taking gaba (not the RX drug) but the herb. That seems to give me some energy during the day and I also have a high dose multi-vitamin with protein shake every morning. I bought some water enhancing flavor (MIO FIT), it has some vitamins and proteins I think in it, since I'm not a huge water fan, it's helping my house some good water and keeping vitamins. I used to drink caffeine every day or else I'd get a super bad migraine, same spot always. I haven't drank much caffeine lately and wonder if my frequent migraines were from the sub actually....

    If I remember, high dose pain killers would produce migraines for me sometimes too.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-19-2015 at 01:22 PM.

  8. #68
    gottidog is offline Junior Member
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    You are doing great... Sleep is one of the last things that will return to normal. I used melatonin to fall asleep for a couple weeks from weeks 3-6. My only problem was falling asleep because once i fell asleep, I slept a good 6-8 hours. That's after the first 2 weeks of hardly any sleep, of course. I quit taking the melatonin 4 days ago, at day 46ish and i've had minor difficulties falling asleep. Sometimes taking until 3 or 4am to fall asleep but once i fall asleep i sleep well. 50 days sounds like a long time but it's just not. It's a small moment in your life and you will get past it. Even if it takes you 3-4 months to return to normal sleep(unlikely).. it will happen. I have no experience with any of the stuff you are using but it's good that you are trying different things and finding things that work for you. At day 50 i feel much better and actually had to look back at my thread to my last post to count how many days it has been since i last took opiates, which is a good thing to me. I am far from powerless.... I control what happens to me(in terms of what i put in my body). Once you admit defeat, you are defeated... (just one of many problems i have with the whole NA thing, but hey.. if it works for you, thats great). I am a very logical type of person and I just don't see addiction as a "disease". It's just not... It's a choice. That being said, it's helped a LOT of people stay clean and if you try it and it helps you then that's awesome. It's a great outlet so that you don't feel alone in your fight. Do what's best for you and I probably shouldn't have commented on it since you didn't ask but it's just my opinion and i saw that you also said you don't consider it a disease. I'm glad to see that you didn't reinduct and are sticking it out. Coming from someone else that jumped from a high dose, it's probably good to hear that it will end or at least get better soon.

  9. #69
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristen_RN View Post
    If anyone reads this and has trouble sleeping, I REALLY recommend Valerian Root & Passion Flower. I know I had a weird experience, but I took more than I was supposed to and it was not as trippy as melatonin is for me. I didn't think I would sleep so I bought a couple different kinds of valerian, one an extract and one a compressed pill with passion flower and hops in it. I wasn't patient enough and took two of one and one of the other. Probably a little much!

    I wish I would have used Valerian from the get instead of the benzos.
    I had a little heightened anxiety without the kpins the last few days but my mood is SO much better without them. Sleep is the last the come, I know that. I remember last time, albeit a lower dose I jumped off at it was a good few weeks until I got really good sleep.
    It almost felt like it got a tad worse before it got better.

    But try the Valerian Root! It's super good. As much as my night was crazy at first and I woke up several times, I banked quite a few hours! Now that I have managed to keep my eyes open for an hour I'm starting to feel pretty nice today!

    I also just started taking gaba (not the RX drug) but the herb. That seems to give me some energy during the day and I also have a high dose multi-vitamin with protein shake every morning. I bought some water enhancing flavor (MIO FIT), it has some vitamins and proteins I think in it, since I'm not a huge water fan, it's helping my house some good water and keeping vitamins. I used to drink caffeine every day or else I'd get a super bad migraine, same spot always. I haven't drank much caffeine lately and wonder if my frequent migraines were from the sub actually....

    If I remember, high dose pain killers would produce migraines for me sometimes too.
    Hey hun

    I agree. I use Valerian sometimes and it works great. I love the Mio Energy drink drops/supplements! I still drink it everyday for extra energy. I've recommended it a lot and now Bette and others use it, too.

    So how are you? I'm glad to hear you got some sleep, albeit "weird sleep"..lol...

    Kat

  10. #70
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    Kristen......hey did you ever make it to one of those meetings? ...just curious

  11. #71
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    Thanks for keeping up everyone. I'm just okay. It seems to be the same and then worse for a minute and then okay. Head is foggy still. I'm trying not to think about it too much. That was my biggest problem. Such a mind game. I feel like I have this in the bag one minute and then I don't again. I'm trying to remember when I quit the first time and was sober for a year. There was a serious light at the end of that tunnel and that light was a great one. Honestly, I'm hanging in limbo and trying to enjoy it the best I can.

    To dave, no NA meeting yet. There's one at the college that I used to go to on Saturdays that I'm thinking of going too. I find this forum to be incredibly helpful for right now and going to work was good for me too, but I just want to lay around today now, feeling lazy and unmotivated even though I start school tomorrow, online anyways. But, I've just found myself reading through tons of threads today. It helps pass the time for a little bit and keeps me from thinking about using and not using and what if this and what if that. I willing to give NA a whirl just to see what it's like. Gottidog, like you said, there are a few things I don't agree verbatim I guess, but I just want to give myself the best odds I can at staying with this and beating it. If it's not for me, oh well. This forum is the best. Helped me twice now.

    I can't say physically I am a lot better than a few days ago. It seems these are just small steps of improvements and are hard to notice, but sure beats the first week. I am just trying not to think about it too much even though it's a lot of what I've been doing. I guess I'm trying a different perspective mentally. I think worrying about what it's like and what it will be like and for how long and when will it end and all of those questions were KILLING me. So, I'm just rolling with it now. I know what day I'm on but I don't even want to count them because this has been so hard, it was just causing a whole entire anxiety of it's own. "TODAY IS DAY 15!? WHY AM I NOT FEELING BETTER? I SHOULD FEEL GREAT" - then all of a sudden my mood and everything is stuck on this is today and I still hate this.

    So, I gave up on that approach. I'm trying to pretend I'm not going through this. Or at least not dwell.

    Faking it til I make it.

    I'm the great pretender! People at work have not a clue and that makes me laugh whilst slowly dying inside here and there. Someone told me I looked great yesterday and my boss was like, something is different? Are you high or something? Only to think, quite the opposite in fact.

    I guess I'm doing alright! I'm just gonna keep taking it as it comes, because all those questions I had up there, man, they are quite the downer. Really sets me up for a hard day before the day even begins. I'm sure I'll have a day where I post that I am feeling quite the opposite and down and out but that's why I love this place. Gotta get it out and it let's me.

    I feel kind of ambivalent I guess. It is what it is.
    Oh and today is Day 15. But who's counting...............haha.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-19-2015 at 04:12 PM.

  12. #72
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    Kristen ...congrats on day 15......good thing someone is counting lol. Little by little ...day by day ...your coming along...I can even see the progress just through posts. Sure ur gonna have your ups and your downs ...but that's to be expected....your doing a great job so far!!

  13. #73
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottidog View Post
    I am far from powerless.... I control what happens to me(in terms of what i put in my body). Once you admit defeat, you are defeated... (just one of many problems i have with the whole NA thing, but hey.. if it works for you, thats great). I am a very logical type of person and I just don't see addiction as a "disease". It's just not... It's a choice.
    As a commited for life member of both NA and AA I was reading this post and got a little miffed I guess you might say. I'm NOT here to argue with anyone at any time, because EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs, but this really got my attention. I know that ADDICTION is indeed a DISEASE. It's been recognized as such by the AMA (American Medical Association). I would put the proof here, but external links are not allowed. Theres plenty of proof to be found if one is inclined.

    Instead I remember reading a post some time ago by one of the most distinguished members we have on this forum. Her name is Ruth and her screen name is ARTIST658. She has many, many years of clean time, is well educated, all the required credentials, extremely knowledgeable, and works in the field of addiction in a long term treatment center for women. I've read hundreds of her posts because they contain some of the most astounding and profound advice and suggestions I've had the pleasure of reading on this forum. She pulls no punches telling it like it is and hoping that everyone can stop their destructive path due to this DISEASE we call ADDICTION.

    I searched for this post and thought it would be beneficial to everyone that is trying so hard to stop the abuse of all addictive drugs. The subject matter is amazing. I've never even heard of it until Ruth put it up for all to see and hopefully read. It explains things most never realized about how our brains are affected and deal with this DISEASE.

    Heres that post by Ruth below. I hope everyone gets as much out of it as I have. It's rather long, but positively worth the time and effort to read. Please do so to better educate yourself.


    6-06-2011, 06:57 AM #1 ARTIST658
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    THIQ - Important info about the DISEASE of addiction
    As I began to respond to a post earlier this morning from a heartbroken, distraught wife of an active addict, I thought maybe it's best I just begin a new thread on this. It's information that I often refer to when talking to addicts and their families, so rather than typing and retyping when I see the need, I figured I'd just post it in one place for anyone who is interested. For some, it's a bit of an explanation of the insanity of this disease, and for others, it's a bit of a comfort.

    I'm a drug addict - thankfully, in recovery for many years now. I've continued on with my education to work in the field, so I'm painfully familiar with this disease - personally and professionally. I work with addicts, as well as their families. I recall when I first learned this information, I cried - I was so profoundly relieved to learn that there was something legitimately 'different' about me, that had led me into the nightmare of addiction. Until then, I'd only blamed myself - and was finding little forgiveness, until I understood the facts. This helped me, as I was getting clean, to forgive myself and move forward.

    Drug addicts have a DISEASE - just as real and legitimate as diabetes or cancer. It's all too easy for those folks who only see it from the outside to consider it a sign of weakness or lack of willpower - but that really is inaccurate. No one would judge a diabetic for creating their own disease, yet drug addicts are instantly labelled as narcissistic or weak. There is an undeniable genetic component to this disease; we are born with an inate predisposition to become addicted. What comes together is a "perfect storm" - of genetic markers, likely a disfunctional early family (also genetically predisposed toward addiction), as well as opportunity for substances (drugs or alcohol) at a vulnerable point in our lives. It may come at a time of physical pain - or a time of emotional instability (like the teen years) - but once that substance enters our bodies, something changes within us and we're on that track, never suspecting a thing. It often starts out completely innocuous.

    So - given our vulnerabilities - we take that pill or drink, and we find instant relief - from physical and emotional pain.

    Then, given our genetic predisposition, our bodies do NOT process drugs and alcohol the same way as non-addicts. Honestly. For non-addicts, the entire drug is eliminated from the system completely within a matter of days. For addicts, research has shown us, a small part of that bodily detoxification process builds up a chemical in the brain called "THIQ" (short for tetrahydroisoquinolone). This THIQ has only been found in the brains of drug addicts and alcoholics at autopsy. Researchers believe that the genetic marker for this disease directs the body's production of THIQ.

    THIQ is a highly, highly addictive substance that stays in the brain of the addict; it never goes away. It is considered much more powerful than >>>>>> or morphine. It feeds on itself. This is the basis behind the unimaginable cravings. It is not simply a matter of being "weak" or "lacking good moral fiber" - THIQ is a powerful chemical that is fueling our veracious need for more of itself.

    In time, as the THIQ accumulates, our disease of addiction progresses. The more we use drugs, the more THIQ we develop - and the more we need. This is behind the progression of this disease. Early on, we may be able to stop after a pill or two - or at least control our use. Later, we can control if we start using - but can't control how much we use once we get started. Then, in time, control is gone - lost to us forever. THIQ will be triggered and completely take charge of us any time we ingest a pill or a drink.

    Thus is the very real - tangible - basis of our insanity. Why do people keep using drugs, even when they have destroyed every aspect of their lives by their drug use? Why do they put drugs ahead of their loved ones? Why do they lie and cheat and steal to have more drugs? Why aren't the threats of more harm enough to make them stop? THIQ. Once it takes control, we aren't in control.

    THIQ can not be removed. It will not go away. BUT - it can be made dormant. And the only way to make it dormant is to completely stop fueling it. Total abstinance from any and all addictive, mood-altering substances. As soon as we injest a pill or a drink, THIQ is again triggered, even if it's decades down the road from our days of addiction. We may struggle to control it for a short while, but it can't last. The THIQ is far more powerful than we, alone, are.

    That's the scientific explanation for one big piece of this puzzle called addiction. There's ongoing research on addiction that explains it even further. I share this information NOT to give anyone an excuse to use drugs - hardly! I also don't share this information to try to get the loved ones around the addict to be more compassionate or forgiving. No. I simply share it so others can see the true essence of this DISEASE, and not keep looking at addiction as some kind of character flaw or personality disorder. It's much more than narcissism or immaturity. The AMA (American Medical Association) has labelled it a disease for decades. "Disease" is not just a word the AMA banters about to justify bad behavior. It meets their criteria for classification as a disease.

    So - we aren't at fault for having the gene - we were born that way. Our responsibility comes into it when we recognize that we have this disease, and are offered the tools we need to overcome it. In other words, I may not be responsible for having my disease, but I am responsible for my recovery from it.

    Recovery takes WORK. It is far more complex than just stopping the drugs. After we've been abusing drugs for any length of time, we have basically hijacked any coping tools we ever had. We have also hijacked our natural ability for personal motivation or emotional growth. If we are to stay away from the drugs, we need to relearn the skills we lost - or learn them for the first time, if we never had the chance before. In essence, we have to become MORE stable emotionally than the average person, if we're going to learn to manage life without turning to the crutch of a drink or a drug. Fortunately, we can learn those skills - and the best source for that help has proven to me to be AA or NA. It's far beyond mere meetings of a support group. It's a 12-step program of reassessment and recovery. It gives us the 'recipe' for relearning how to deal with life, without a drug. That's where we learn how to cope. That's where we learn how to accept and forgive ourselves, despite the insanity of what we've done when we were active users. That's where we develop self-esteem and self-respect.

    The disease is with us for life - but, given daily effort, it need not control us ever again. Fortunately, just as addiction is progressive - recovery is also progressive. Our skills improve, our circumstances improve, and we are able to find joy and peace that eluded us while we were active.

    God bless,
    Ruth


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    PeterRabbit2, AmIanAddict, daydreamer76 and 16 others like this.




    I hope it connects with all of you as it did me. I never knew of this as I mentioned, but it opened my eyes! Ruth has taken a break from the forum, but she has a thread in the Need to Talk forum titled "Ask Ruth" where anyone can ask their question to her. I hope she returns soon and I encourage everyone to read as many of her posts as possible.

    Than you,
    -Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-19-2015 at 09:01 PM.

  14. #74
    gottidog is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    As a commited for life member of both NA and AA I was reading this post and got a little miffed I guess you might say. I'm NOT here to argue with anyone at any time, because EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs, but this really got my attention. I know that ADDICTION is indeed a DISEASE. It's been recognized as such by the AMA (American Medical Association). I would put the proof here, but external links are not allowed. Theres plenty of proof to be found if one is inclined.

    Instead I remember reading a post some time ago by one of the most distinguished members we have on this forum. Her name is Ruth and her screen name is ARTIST658. She has many, many years of clean time, is well educated, all the required credentials, extremely knowledgeable, and works in the field of addiction in a long term treatment center for women. I've read hundreds of her posts because they contain some of the most astounding and profound advice and suggestions I've had the pleasure of reading on this forum. She pulls no punches telling it like it is and hoping that everyone can stop their destructive path due to this DISEASE we call ADDICTION.

    I searched for this post and thought it would be beneficial to everyone that is trying so hard to stop the abuse of all addictive drugs. The subject matter is amazing. I've never even heard of it until Ruth put it up for all to see and hopefully read. It explains things most never realized about how our brains are affected and deal with this DISEASE.

    Heres that post by Ruth below. I hope everyone gets as much out of it as I have. It's rather long, but positively worth the time and effort to read. Please do so to better educate yourself.


    6-06-2011, 06:57 AM #1 ARTIST658
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    New England
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    THIQ - Important info about the DISEASE of addiction
    As I began to respond to a post earlier this morning from a heartbroken, distraught wife of an active addict, I thought maybe it's best I just begin a new thread on this. It's information that I often refer to when talking to addicts and their families, so rather than typing and retyping when I see the need, I figured I'd just post it in one place for anyone who is interested. For some, it's a bit of an explanation of the insanity of this disease, and for others, it's a bit of a comfort.

    I'm a drug addict - thankfully, in recovery for many years now. I've continued on with my education to work in the field, so I'm painfully familiar with this disease - personally and professionally. I work with addicts, as well as their families. I recall when I first learned this information, I cried - I was so profoundly relieved to learn that there was something legitimately 'different' about me, that had led me into the nightmare of addiction. Until then, I'd only blamed myself - and was finding little forgiveness, until I understood the facts. This helped me, as I was getting clean, to forgive myself and move forward.

    Drug addicts have a DISEASE - just as real and legitimate as diabetes or cancer. It's all too easy for those folks who only see it from the outside to consider it a sign of weakness or lack of willpower - but that really is inaccurate. No one would judge a diabetic for creating their own disease, yet drug addicts are instantly labelled as narcissistic or weak. There is an undeniable genetic component to this disease; we are born with an inate predisposition to become addicted. What comes together is a "perfect storm" - of genetic markers, likely a disfunctional early family (also genetically predisposed toward addiction), as well as opportunity for substances (drugs or alcohol) at a vulnerable point in our lives. It may come at a time of physical pain - or a time of emotional instability (like the teen years) - but once that substance enters our bodies, something changes within us and we're on that track, never suspecting a thing. It often starts out completely innocuous.

    So - given our vulnerabilities - we take that pill or drink, and we find instant relief - from physical and emotional pain.

    Then, given our genetic predisposition, our bodies do NOT process drugs and alcohol the same way as non-addicts. Honestly. For non-addicts, the entire drug is eliminated from the system completely within a matter of days. For addicts, research has shown us, a small part of that bodily detoxification process builds up a chemical in the brain called "THIQ" (short for tetrahydroisoquinolone). This THIQ has only been found in the brains of drug addicts and alcoholics at autopsy. Researchers believe that the genetic marker for this disease directs the body's production of THIQ.

    THIQ is a highly, highly addictive substance that stays in the brain of the addict; it never goes away. It is considered much more powerful than >>>>>> or morphine. It feeds on itself. This is the basis behind the unimaginable cravings. It is not simply a matter of being "weak" or "lacking good moral fiber" - THIQ is a powerful chemical that is fueling our veracious need for more of itself.

    In time, as the THIQ accumulates, our disease of addiction progresses. The more we use drugs, the more THIQ we develop - and the more we need. This is behind the progression of this disease. Early on, we may be able to stop after a pill or two - or at least control our use. Later, we can control if we start using - but can't control how much we use once we get started. Then, in time, control is gone - lost to us forever. THIQ will be triggered and completely take charge of us any time we ingest a pill or a drink.

    Thus is the very real - tangible - basis of our insanity. Why do people keep using drugs, even when they have destroyed every aspect of their lives by their drug use? Why do they put drugs ahead of their loved ones? Why do they lie and cheat and steal to have more drugs? Why aren't the threats of more harm enough to make them stop? THIQ. Once it takes control, we aren't in control.

    THIQ can not be removed. It will not go away. BUT - it can be made dormant. And the only way to make it dormant is to completely stop fueling it. Total abstinance from any and all addictive, mood-altering substances. As soon as we injest a pill or a drink, THIQ is again triggered, even if it's decades down the road from our days of addiction. We may struggle to control it for a short while, but it can't last. The THIQ is far more powerful than we, alone, are.

    That's the scientific explanation for one big piece of this puzzle called addiction. There's ongoing research on addiction that explains it even further. I share this information NOT to give anyone an excuse to use drugs - hardly! I also don't share this information to try to get the loved ones around the addict to be more compassionate or forgiving. No. I simply share it so others can see the true essence of this DISEASE, and not keep looking at addiction as some kind of character flaw or personality disorder. It's much more than narcissism or immaturity. The AMA (American Medical Association) has labelled it a disease for decades. "Disease" is not just a word the AMA banters about to justify bad behavior. It meets their criteria for classification as a disease.

    So - we aren't at fault for having the gene - we were born that way. Our responsibility comes into it when we recognize that we have this disease, and are offered the tools we need to overcome it. In other words, I may not be responsible for having my disease, but I am responsible for my recovery from it.

    Recovery takes WORK. It is far more complex than just stopping the drugs. After we've been abusing drugs for any length of time, we have basically hijacked any coping tools we ever had. We have also hijacked our natural ability for personal motivation or emotional growth. If we are to stay away from the drugs, we need to relearn the skills we lost - or learn them for the first time, if we never had the chance before. In essence, we have to become MORE stable emotionally than the average person, if we're going to learn to manage life without turning to the crutch of a drink or a drug. Fortunately, we can learn those skills - and the best source for that help has proven to me to be AA or NA. It's far beyond mere meetings of a support group. It's a 12-step program of reassessment and recovery. It gives us the 'recipe' for relearning how to deal with life, without a drug. That's where we learn how to cope. That's where we learn how to accept and forgive ourselves, despite the insanity of what we've done when we were active users. That's where we develop self-esteem and self-respect.

    The disease is with us for life - but, given daily effort, it need not control us ever again. Fortunately, just as addiction is progressive - recovery is also progressive. Our skills improve, our circumstances improve, and we are able to find joy and peace that eluded us while we were active.

    God bless,
    Ruth


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    PeterRabbit2, AmIanAddict, daydreamer76 and 16 others like this.




    I hope it connects with all of you as it did me. I never knew of this as I mentioned, but it opened my eyes! Ruth has taken a break from the forum, but she has a thread in the Need to Talk forum titled "Ask Ruth" where anyone can ask their question to her. I hope she returns soon and I encourage everyone to read as many of her posts as possible.

    Than you,
    -Randy
    cool, my post got deleted... You say you don't want to argue but you reply to my post specifically to discredit what i believe. Taking drugs is NOTHING like cancer and saying so is just flat out WRONG and sort of ignorant. Taking drugs is not something that just happens to you... it's not something that's unpreventable. It's something you do to yourself. It's a conscious choice to put those drugs in your body. No matter what type of predisposition you have... no matter how hard it is not to take drugs.. IT'S STILL A CHOICE, period... Some THIQ demon doesn't possess your body and make your arms do drugs. All i was trying to say was that you have a choice on if you take drugs or not... It's not some predetermined sentence for the rest of your life. This is coming from an addict of 12 years, not from the outside... I have been there and know exactly what it's like. There is a reason this is a hugely debated topic, it's your opinion that you think it's a disease and to post that reply to me is just rude.

  15. #75
    gottidog is offline Junior Member
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    Oh, and i can also quote very "smart" people who say addiction isn't a disease with a quick google search.
    http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/2...brain-disease/

  16. #76
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    I wasn't trying to be rude, I was HOPING to change your thinking is all. I know that rarely happens, but gave it a shot. I'm sorry for upsetting you, and I will apologize. Definitely NOT my intention to cause any argument I promise. Clearly you have your own thoughts on the matter and that's fine. I have mine also knowing this disease is much more complicated than most realize. I meant no disrespect and you took that post wrong. I really put it up for ALL to read because I believe it's an important piece of eveidence in regards to the addiction process. Again sorry you misunderstood and all I'll say on the matter.

    Sorry Kristen for hi-jacking your thread, but hope you did read that rather lengthy post..

    -Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-20-2015 at 07:09 AM.
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  17. #77
    gottidog is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry to post again but in case the link does get deleted... a quick google search of "is addicition a diesease" will net more results on the first page on why it ISN'T a disease than proving it is. Here is one quote that "connected" with me...

    In a true disease, some part of the body is in a state of abnormal physiological functioning, and this causes the undesirable symptoms. In the case of cancer, it would be mutated cells which we point to as evidence of a physiological abnormality, in diabetes we can point to low insulin production or cells which fail to use insulin properly as the physiological abnormality which create the harmful symptoms. If a person has either of these diseases, they cannot directly choose to stop their symptoms or directly choose to stop the abnormal physiological functioning which creates the symptoms. They can only choose to stop the physiological abnormality indirectly, by the application of medical treatment, and in the case of diabetes, dietetic measures may also indirectly halt the symptoms as well (but such measures are not a cure so much as a lifestyle adjustment necessitated by permanent physiological malfunction).

    "In addiction, there is no such physiological malfunction. The best physical evidence put forward by the disease proponents falls totally flat on the measure of representing a physiological malfunction.

  18. #78
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Kristen,
    I am glad to see you are feeling better..
    I think you will be a little surprized to see how many nurses are in recovery..
    You said you would feel strange going to a meeting at your school..
    Hopefully one day you will be grateful to be going there..
    Being an addict has it s downfalls for sure..
    But it has also enriched my life..
    I have far more empathy for my patients than I would have had I not gone through some trials and tribulations myself..

    Addiction also makes a person look at themselves and do an inventory of their life..
    Something many normal people never do..
    It has empowered me to be able to decide where I can make changes and where I am powerless..
    I have spent many years trying to change people , places and things.
    When in reality the only thing I can change is me and my attitude.

    I know their are nurse to nurse groups out there if you would rather stick with some professionals..

    I myself believe it is a disease I know in my heart some of the behaviors of mothers would have never been done by choice..
    Once addicted we sacrifice many things not because we don't care about our families anymore.

    But because we care about the pills more...

    Do you believe that mental health issues are a disease?

    If so addiction is right in there..
    It in a difference in brain function...
    Once we know about this and get clean it is a choice to relapse because our bodies don't have that physical allergy until the drug is in our system...
    Obsession maybe but craving no..
    It is a physical allergy that manifests itself by craving more..

    With other allergys while some may cause an anaphylactic reaction we can also be having allergic reactions inside that we don't see..
    They become chronic..
    Like a gluten allergy many of us have a reaction internally but don't even know it..
    Sugar is another one ..
    Dementia is being called the type 3 diabetes..
    It is an internal reaction that cannot be seen but causes many symtoms whether behavioral ( eating more) or physical high blood sugar..

    I am looking into some adrenal health supplements.
    I believe it was you that did the research about opiates and the body..
    It makes perfect sense that these hormones would be affected.
    I know some guys on here have had their blood work and it shows just that..

    Thank you for that info...
    I will check back later
    Iluv2
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-20-2015 at 09:58 AM.

  19. #79
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    Hi everyone!
    No need for anyone to apologize, and I appreciate the information from you Randy and the opinions of others.

    ILuv2, I totally agree that mental health issues manifest diseases in the body, and what do you know, I do amazing in psych. Like you said, I have a different empathy and understanding for people and with my own experiences, esp as I nurse, I bring something very different to the table. A lot of my fellow students/coworkers would make snickering comments about people who had a mental health issue + an addiction and it really baffled me. I'll never forget when I was in clinical at a children's hospital and a 16 year old girl came into the ER and up to my floor during my rotation, she had OD'd on H...Her parents said it had just started this year to their knowledge and she ended up hypoxic which lead to brain damage. My teacher and some students said that's what she get's for using drugs. That's what happens. People like that deserve that. Some of us wanted to go to the director of our program about her. This teacher had just been fired from another school for teaching false information and putting patient's in jeopardy by not keeping her students well educated and for some reason my school picked her up! Some of us were horrified. If anything, if you feel that, keep your mouth shut! Nurses, we have opinions, sure, but we are to treat all patient's equally and with the same respect, compassion and understanding. That poor girl's life was changed forever because of choices, choices we wouldn't see in a few day old chart. Who knows what her life was like. Who knows what she had been through? To say she deserved it - so beyond me. I hated that teacher, to think she was someone who dedicated her life to HELPING people and remaining impartial. True colors really showed of my classmates when they said some terrible things as well. It made me sick.

    There's that number of something like 50% of people with an addiction of some sort of underlying mental health disorder. I know it is very really. My uncle was bipolar and had some schizoaffective tendencies and ended up with brain cancer a few years ago and passed. He was a chronic drug user, the DOC changed often.

    I have seen cancer happen to my mom who was healthy by all accounts, exercised a lot, ate organic, took herbal supplements and just really took care of herself besides the high stress of her job as a manager of 120 nurses.... I guess that's where I have a difficulty separating addiction and my choices from the disease process and manifestation that you would see with cancer or other conditions... But, I would never say a schizo with a drug problem was any less burdened by disease.

    I guess that's just admitting it's an illness...it clearly is something that takes over and it doesn't happen to everyone. My fiance and I were into the same party scene years ago and he didn't come out with a lick of anything. I guess one could say it runs in my family. There are many alcoholics and I have some aunts who have a pain killer addiction. My grandma even has been on a lot of opiates and xanax since both of her kids passed a year apart. But, it's my sweet grandma - I would never think she has an addiction issue... I don't know. I'm rambling.


    Randy, I did read your post. I think NA is totally worthwhile and could be beneficial. I have been reading some literature online and I do think it could be very beneficial. I am in no way mocking it, gotta try it out first But in all seriousness, it's just something I have a difficulty saying I have this disease, but maybe that's the type of forgiveness you need to offer yourself, so that you won't be burdened with guilt because I know guilt has played a HUGE role in the cycle I have lived for a long time.


    Anyways, I'm doing okay today.
    Classes are online. Which I am actually sad about. I want a reason to leave the house!
    I might change my schedule to some on campus classes. Getting a tad stir crazy again. I hate my 4 day "weekend". MY DREAMS ARE SO CRAZY. I am sleeping but I might as well not. Last night, I had a dream that was like a movie. I would wake up every few hours and do something or watch something for a little bit, go back to sleep and it's like the dream picked up where it left off...it was obnoxious and scary. My house was on fire. I could write a book because I remember this dream so vividly, the fire started a few houses down and spread. I could only grab so many things. The things that were important to me. So that's what I did. It was so weird.

    Hey, I didn't try to grab any suboxone or anything. Guess that's a good sign.

    Long post! Thanks for all your opinions everyone and talking. I appreciate it all.
    Gottidog, I didn't see your post removed or anything, it's still there, they all are to my knowledge but I haven't been on since later yesterday, but I understand what you are saying. The important thing is you are here and you are clean and whatever it takes to get you there my friend. Many paths to one end.

    Love and light,
    Kristen
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-20-2015 at 12:06 PM.
    Iluv2smile and DDAVE45 like this.

  20. #80
    Anonymous Guest

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    Iluv2,
    I see on another thread you mentioned using that withdrawal ease product. I have a lot of herbs in it and vitamins already on hand at home. No lemon balm or Mucuna Prureins - very curious about that. It says it's a derivative of levadopa therefore I'm thinking like Parkinsons, enhances dopamine and the site is saying just that. It helps with RLS and mood. I don't know if I've ever heard of that before. Just curious if I can pick your brain for a second

  21. #81
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Wish there was a chat function on here!

    Well, I just got a ton of energy! I just started school today so I was busy trying to read and do stuff all day long and it's all on the computer.
    I don't think sleep is gonna happen. I haven't drank caffeine in days for this reason.

    Worst, well maybe not WORST, but never ending headache today. Thankfully not a full blown migraine. My migraines are always behind my right eye. They suck. Longest migraine to date was a glorious 30+ hours that continued long into the next day. They are awful!
    But this headache/migraine...my god. All day long and progressing. I tried ibuprofen. 800 mg. I don't play with headaches since that's the general precursor to migraines along with the aura, bizarre fatigue with flashes of light/halos which after hours in front of a computer, it was happening.

    Since I know how debilitating migraines are, I always try to head them off because they have a tendency to make me vomit and then I have to resort to a dark hole with a hot wash cloth over my head and a bag of ice at the back of neck -many years of experience trying everything and that works to at least stave off the vomit. Nothing increases intracranial pressure like a nice projectile visit to the toilet bowl!

    The last thing I want to do is lay in the dark thinking with a slamming headache, sleep doesn't happen. I feel like I haven't drank much water the last two days so I started slamming it. A little too late. Meh. So after 12 hours of this, I resorted to my one usually flawless solution. A little bit of caffeine. A super little bit. A squirt of that mio energy shhhhtufff.

    It feels like speed since I haven't hardly drank any in two weeks!
    Purrrrfect for my insomnia! I can't wait! Wish there was a chat function here.
    I'll be here all night ladies and gents!
    Just came to b!t*h about my headache since y'all haven't heard me b!*ch enough, right?
    Bright side? Caffeine helped. Downside...who drinks caffeine a little before midnight!

    This is upsetting but alas, not the end of the world. I'm sure all you people are sleeping. I don't know what to do with myself!

    A little caffeine + headache relief after half a day + insomnia = a really long post about a headache.

    Sleep well you little lucky devils tucked in bed right meow!
    Hope you all had a good day!

  22. #82
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Kristen,
    I used the withdrawal ease when I was tapering methadone before inducing onto sub...
    I did research and found that it had all the ingredients I needed..
    I used it more because it was convient.
    I have another bottle I am starting today cuz I started my skip days today..
    It is about $90.00 a month but it has everything you need and it took the guess work out..
    I am pretty sure it is money back guarantee..

    The pm does really help me sleep..
    When I was tapering methadone I felt >>>>>> most of the time so it was easier to take -1 or 2 pills than a whole handful.
    I just saved all my other supplements and will restart them in a month or so..

    There is a great article on PAWS that talks about restarting our own endorphin production naturally .
    If you can google that it will help you ..
    Gotta go
    Iluv2

    Was it you that hates H20?

    If so you have to find some way to stay hydrated..
    That is probaly the no1 easiest and most beneficial way to treat withdrawals..
    You know what happens to pts when they become dehydrated and they are not even withdrawing..

    Imagine how we are affected?

    I have to go I will check back later
    Iluv2
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-21-2015 at 05:56 PM.

  23. #83
    Anonymous Guest

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    Hi thanks for getting back to me!
    I don't receive notifications on my own thread lately by email instantly for some reason. No idea why! I've been on here today but not on my own thread. I refreshed it and saw you posted.

    Today was kind of rough. Didn't sleep until 6 am. Got up at 11 ish after trying to go back to sleep every 30 minutes. The migraine really drained me.

    I am not the biggest water fan in the world. I've been this way for years - probably what started my bladder problems when I was younger and what do you know, led to taking tabs on occasion.

    I have the water flavor enhancers that help. I don't know what it is about dang water and as a nurse, I know how important it is. I could literally go 24 hours before I go, when did I drink water last or anything for that matter? My fiance makes fun of me. He says I drink most of my daily water while I'm showering. He is probably right. It's not the best water either, but alas it is my main watering hole...strange. I'm weird. haha.

    I've been kind of slacking on taking care of myself the last few days. Haven't exercised much, ate much or anything. Just a temporary snag I'm hoping. But, I had a kind of difficult day.

    I'm excited to get to a meeting on Saturday. I am going to see if I can get some advice on other ones too. There's just too many in the bad areas around here. I'm a little nervous. Some of those addresses I wouldn't even drive through to get outside of the city for fear my car would break down or what might happen at a stop sign/red light.

    I exercised today and am keeping up on water. Feeling a little better now. Another day in the books.
    Hoping for sleep soon! This parts a bit of a killer.

  24. #84
    Anonymous Guest

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    Ugh! I feel SO bad today. This is getting to be annoying. I'm ready to just punch a hole through the wall. I HATE MY FOUR DAY WEEKEND. I go to work in 5 hours and I don't even feel like it!

    I woke up in a pool of sweat and my legs doing that glorious RLS thing. I felt like I got hit with another wave of WD. Grrrrr. I'm so angry.

    I want out of this awful woods.

    I had some good days, so I shouldn't let this get to me. But I feel like I did a week ago or so. Like Day 10. Day 10 was terrible. 9 Days? later and I am still feeling like that. I got some sleep finally yesterday and last night. I just didn't feel like doing anything. Man, I need some encouragement. This sucks.

    Why does this last sooo long?!

    I exercised of the bike for five minutes before I said, I hate this and got off.


    Ugh.
    Just a bad day in the books I guess...I just feel like I'm reliving a nightmare. It just comes and goes all the time.

  25. #85
    Anonymous Guest

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    [deleted - swearing]
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-24-2015 at 02:11 AM.

  26. #86
    Anonymous Guest

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    I'm the herbal queen right now. Even trying 5 HTP (serotonin precursor) today because why not? I'm also smiling stupidly when I'm so frustrated. Fiance laughs at me. He thinks I'm making it up that I feel terrible with this stupid goofy smile on my face.

    I have no idea.

    Back to the faking it part I guess. WOO. This isn't happening to me. I feel great. This is great!

    Ah the great pretender in 5 hours. I can't wait.


  27. #87
    Anonymous Guest

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    I got waitlisted for the program I really really wanted. Today sucks.

  28. #88
    rennie86 is offline Member
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    Hey Kristen! I just wanted to say hi. I see you're not having a very good day and I am so sorry! You have come so far and been so strong! Today is almost over and tomorrow is a brand new day.

    I have been reading through your thread and you really have done an awesome job getting to where you are! I am still on .5mg of sub and have been tapering forreevvverrrr! I can't wait to be done with this and make the jump. By the time I make my jump, you will have multiple months clean and I will be counting on you to tell me I'm gonna be okay! Haha.

    I hope tomorrow is a better day! Hang in there and take care of yourself!

    -Renee

  29. #89
    Anonymous Guest

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    aww thank you for your nice reply! Work went okay. It was a very long 8 hours and when I got home I passed out but only for three hours. Ugh. I ended up taking valerian root at six am and a hot shower. Slept from 830 to 1030 and now Im just zonked tired and have a migraine. Waaaah. Oh well this is how it is. Congrats on tapering. Its the smart way to do it. I got clean for me but a lot was for that program. They run a 9 or 10 panel drug test and I know sub is one because it's illegal to practice in my state on suboxone so you can imagine quite the bummer when I was wait listed with a lot of promise from the dept head I would get in
    Ohhhh well

  30. #90
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristen_RN View Post
    aww thank you for your nice reply! Work went okay. It was a very long 8 hours and when I got home I passed out but only for three hours. Ugh. I ended up taking valerian root at six am and a hot shower. Slept from 830 to 1030 and now Im just zonked tired and have a migraine. Waaaah. Oh well this is how it is. Congrats on tapering. Its the smart way to do it. I got clean for me but a lot was for that program. They run a 9 or 10 panel drug test and I know sub is one because it's illegal to practice in my state on suboxone so you can imagine quite the bummer when I was wait listed with a lot of promise from the dept head I would get in
    Ohhhh well
    Hey girl,

    Sorry to hear about getting wait listed. I don't know anything about nursing programs. What does that mean in terms of ever getting in?

    My Mom suffers from terrible migraines so I totally know how awful they can be. Yuck! She takes Fiorinal and some other preventative med for it. But I think Fiorinal had codeine in it, right? So probably not the best option for ya. Do you take any migraine meds?

    Hope today is better for you. You're a trooper, my friend.
    Kat

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