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I need some help... Please
  1. #1
    why_Do_I is offline New Member
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    Default I need some help... Please

    I am in a panic. Quick background on me. I have been poking around this forum for a very long time. I have been addicted to opiates for about 4 years. I started on hydrocodone after a couple of surgeries then found a source to purchase oxycodone on the street. Then I started abusing it. I am a professional and always thought I had it under control, until I didn't. I've tried to quit at least 10 times with no luck. I finally decided to give suboxone a try. And low and behold it seemed to work. I was afraid I'd get hooked on the subs so I wanted off. I jumped off to soon then relapse. About a month ago I was able to jump from Oxy about 500-600 mg's a day usage to subs. I followed Roberts Induction plan. I waited until I scored a 26 on the COWS sheet. Took me almost 3 days to get there. It was torture because 3 days are usually the worst for me. I made it and had a successful induction. I stabilized at about 4 mg's. I decided not to rush off the subs this time as I felt like they were doing a great job of keeping my cravings at bay. I ran out. I thought. I feel pretty good. So I decided to C/T off the subs. I was already tapering and was at about 1 mg per day. I have a very busy life... so in the afternoon of the 2nd day I started feeling the W/D. Holy cow they hit me. Then I became upset. I was feeling like I just traded one addiction for another. I went to get more subs on the street. I do not have a script. I could not find any. So I picked up about 10 oxy 30 mg pills to keep the W/D at bay until I could get more subs. I CAN NOT go down again with the flu. I CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE SICK AGAIN. I do not have the time. I do not want to be on the pills again either. Honestly I want off. I should be able to get my hands on some subs tomorrow again. Here is the million dollar question; Do I need to go thru the whole induction plan all over again? Quick recap:

    • Inducted on subs 30 days ago.
    • Stabalized at 4 mg's.
    • Stayed @ 4 mg's for a week and tapered down to 1 mg per day
    • Ran out of subs and could not get more for about 4-5 days
    • spent 1 full day off of everythings (Subs and percs)
    • Got dope sick at the end of day 2 clean
    • Ate 5 oxy 30 mg pills to take the W/D's away
    • ate 5 oxy 30 mg pills per day for 4 days (Total of 150 mg's of oxy per day)
    • I want back on the subs and want to get rid of the pills again



    How long should I wait before taking subs again? Am I hooked on the oxy again? I have been off subs for 6 days total. Been on oxy for 4 days total. Do I need to wait and score a 26 on the COWS? Will I get that sick (sick enough to score a 26)? What if I C/T from here? Have I had enough time off of the subs to just be done with subs? I am really scared of the precipitated withdrawal's. Please help me if you can. I'd really like to get back to the subs. I feel like I was doing very well on the subs. Thanks for any help that you can offer.

  2. #2
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello why do I welcome to the forum...
    Yes, to be on the safe side you will need to induct on the subs again using the COWS worksheet. Get as many 8mg subs as you can, I'd say that 15 subs would be plenty to complete Robert's sub therapy/taper plan? If Robert's plan is followed correctly it should take you roughly 6-8 weeks to complete from start to finish? Get the subs and get yourself inducted on the lowest effective dose! Follow the rest of Robert's plan as outlined, do this right and you'll never have to do it again! Keep posting and keep us updated, there is plenty of help and support here, other's will chime in as well so keep checking back? Keep an eye out for Randy35, he has a ton of experience with subs and knows Robert's plan inside and out, he will be able to help you out a great deal so listen to him, he really knows his stuff! Best of luck to you and remember to keep us posted?
    Beefaroni7272 and Randy35 like this.

  3. #3
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello, Why Do I, and welcome to the forum. Glad you decided to join after poking around for a while. You're definitely in the right place for help and support.

    Something jumped out at me right away in your post. I'm paraphrasing now, but you basically said, "You were afraid you would get hooked on the subs so you jumped off too soon and would then relapse". I have seen that exact thought situation happen quite often. While it is indeed possible to get hooked on the subs, you really need to remain on them long enough to hopefully curb your addictive thoughts and behaviors. If you remain on the subs a while before tapering, maybe, just maybe you'll get sick and tired of chasing the Oxy and really want a new life for yourself. And you MUST want it more than anything else in the world. This will be the hardest thing you'll ever do, but oh so worth every bit of misery you may endure.

    As for re-inducting. As per Lvg's advice, we always suggest using the Cows to induct and get to a minimum score of 26 before taking any sub. But seeing as you were taking 4mg daily for around a week, then down to 1mg, you will have some build up of sub in your system. Getting to a score of 26 on the Cows may be difficult if you have sub remaining in your system. When you took the Oxy after stopping the subs did it give you that high/euphoric effect you were wanting? Or did it simply stop the wd's? The answer to these questions will determine how you can safely proceed. If you did feel the Oxy's effects then I would definitely use the Cows again. You're right to want to avoid precipitated wd's at all costs. I went through them twice and they are no joke.

    Once you do induct again I would highly recommend you again take no more than 4mgs daily. And I would also highly suggest you remain on your induction dose a while before beginning the taper process. You need some time on the subs to fight those addictive urges. I actually spent 9 months on Suboxone because I knew without one shred of doubt I would relapse for the hundredth time if I got off any sooner. I relapsed so many times I could never count them all. I'm not saying you need that much time on the subs, but you do need a longer period of time on them that you have previously spent.

    If I were you I would try to get in to see a sub doctor and obtain your meds legally. It just works out better that way. Trying to buy off the streets works sometimes, but there will be times when none are available as you know and can put you in jeopardy of relapsing yet again. Not what you want. You'll need quite a few of the 8mg subs to do this right. Gets really expensive buying elsewhere. Check out sub doctors in your area and try to get in with one is my strong advice.

    Then it's simply a matter of following Robert's plan to the letter. After spending some time on the subs you'll want to taper down to at least .25mg. The lower the better.

    Let me know what you think. I'm very busy but will do my best to check back often.

    Randy
    Lvg nghtmare likes this.

  4. #4
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey why do i. Just wanted to add to the welcoming. I don't have anything to add that lvg and Randy have said to you. They're always spot on with their recommendations. You've found a great place here and we can definately help you get clean. Post as often as you need to. We are really good listeners. Subs are a great tool if used properly like Randy outlined for you. Let us know what your plans are moving forward.

    Welcome again!!
    Beef

  5. #5
    why_Do_I is offline New Member
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    Hi Randy and LVG and Beef. Thank you for getting back to me. Things have taken a turn for me. Today I ate 6 oxy 30mg pills. I REALLY want to be done... I do. But heck. I just detoxed 30 days ago. I messed this whole thing up real good. I do not know how to induct on subs without hitting the 26 on the COWS. OR... should I just try and wean off of the pills? But... the subs were helping me stay off. I am sooo lost.

  6. #6
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Tapering off of short acting opiates was never something I could do. If I had them in my possession they would be gone by days end. No it's and's or but's about it. Which is why I went the sub route. Granted I was on them waaaayyyy too long. And at a crazy dose. I was ignorant of the medicine. I trusted my doctor knew what he was doing. Only after I tapered myself down and jumped from 1mg did I find this place and read and learn about subs. (I do not recommend jumping at 1mg). That's not saying I had a bad experience with subs. Quite the opposite actually. They did help me tremendously and curb my addictive thoughts and behaviors. And I'm sure had I not found them my oxy use would have spiraled out of control and I'm pretty sure it would have killed me.

    As for the re-induction. There is no way to skip it. You have to hit that magic 26 to be sure you don't go into precipitated withdrawals. Sorry. But you don't want that. There is no easy road here. You really need to want it. More than anything. I would suggest like Randy did earlier that you get yourself in to see a sub doctor. If you do that you'll be sure you have plenty of subs to do your taper. And that way you won't have to keep putting yourself through the induction over and over again. Then you can just taper down when you're ready and jump.

    Keep posting!! We are here for you.

    Beef

  7. #7
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by why_Do_I View Post
    Hi Randy and LVG and Beef. Thank you for getting back to me. Things have taken a turn for me. Today I ate 6 oxy 30mg pills. I REALLY want to be done... I do. But heck. I just detoxed 30 days ago. I messed this whole thing up real good. I do not know how to induct on subs without hitting the 26 on the COWS. OR... should I just try and wean off of the pills? But... the subs were helping me stay off. I am sooo lost.

    Like we've said, you really have to WANT this, and want it more than anything else in the world. And if you really do want it you must get SERIOUS about it. That means cutting off all ways of obtaining Oxy (or anything else) and getting that temptation out of your life. Tell your doctor you have a problem with narcotics and never prescribe them to you again. Tell dealers/friends not to give/sell them to you again. Delete phone numbers, and change your phone number if you have to. It's way to easy for you to relapse if you have the availability of pills within easy reach. This is a non-negotiable part of this process. So how serious are you about quitting?

    Randy
    Ming23 likes this.

  8. #8
    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    hello why do I, I am no medical professional but have went thru quitting opiates and subs. In my experience after quitting subs I no longer craved hydro's oxy's or any of the short acting opiates but still did subs. following Randy's and the others advice is the way to quit, but remember you have to be sooooo sick of these drugs completely dominating your life that you want to quit them for good. I have been thru precipitated withdrawals ( not good at all ) so stay with the plan. You will dope sick for a while approx. 1 week for me then things will keep improving after that, it may not take you as long as everyone is different and length and amount of use plays a part in recovery time. Use the subs only as needed as you can get addicted to them as well, taper as Robert plans shows and you will do fine. You are the key you will decide when your done with them, life is sooo much better without drugs stay strong and you will get this it will be over sooner than you think.

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