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I really really need your advice
  1. #1
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Default I really really need your advice

    Hi guys I'm back. I see familiar names, Beef Lvg... Guys new doctor recently put me on Suboxone to get me off vicodin which I had been using for years for herniated disc. My question is if someone is holding a professional license, can her or his license be in jeopardy of behind revoked or suspended if the board issuing the license becomes aware? Can the treating doctor, the pharmacy or even the insurance company notify the board?
    Thank You
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-30-2018 at 11:07 PM.
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  2. #2
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Rick. Welcome back!! I gotta ask what happened? Last we heard you were around 3 weeks clean. No judgements by the way. Just want to emphasize that. Just looking to piece it together. New doctor huh. Subs, how much did they prescribe you? How long have you been taking them? They are a whole other monster that's for sure. But with a proper taper plan we can get you off of those no problem. Check out the Suboxone taper plan located at the top of this sub forum. It's marked "sticky". Thousands have used it successfully.

    As far as the doctors prescribing suboxone. I know that all they have to do is take an 8 hour class taught by big pharma and they can prescribe it widely at rediculous doses. Most sub doctor's don't know anything about it. They just see it as a cash cow. At least that's how my sub doc was and that's what I see mostly on this site. Finding a sub doc who cares about their patients and wants to get them off are few and far between.

    Hope that answers your question. If not elaborate a bit and I'm sure someone will be by to give a little more info.

    Also I see that you started quite a few threads. You don't need to do that, and it becomes confusing for the members. All your info is on your original thread so let's keep it there and let these other ones wash away to the archives.

    Welcome back Rick!! Keep posting.

    Have a great day!!
    Beef
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  3. #3
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Beef... I missed you man. I dissappeared because although I was sober for almost a month but my mental state was becoming worse and worse. I honestly handled the physical withdrawals like a champ. I did not care about the physical pain or the sleepless nights. BUT... My depression was just kicking me down so hard that I decided to go to a Psychiatrist. So this guy immediately puts me on Suboxone and a new drug called Trintellix. Beef my only question is actually a legal question: As someone who holds a professional license, can I lose my license if the board finds out about my prior Vicodin use and the current Suboxone use?. That thought is now tearing me apart. Can my doctor or the pharmacy or even my insurance company notify the board? Beef please enlighten me if you have any knowledge of the legality of such matters.

  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Hi guys I'm back. I see familiar names, Beef Lvg... Guys new doctor recently put me on Suboxone to get me off vicodin which I had been using for years for herniated disc. My question is if someone is holding a professional license, can her or his license be in jeopardy of behind revoked or suspended if the board issuing the license becomes aware? Can the treating doctor, the pharmacy or even the insurance company notify the board?
    Thank You
    Welcome back. I'll watch for you to respond to Beef. It'll help to know what daily dose you're taking and how long you've been using the subs.

    The answer to your question is No. Your doctor, the insurance company, nor the pharmacy will report you for using Subs. The one exception would be if you get flagged for doctor shopping or trying to fill too many scripts. I assume that this isn't the case with you. There are very strict HIPPA laws that protect your privacy where any medical info is concerned. Take a few minutes and Google HIPPA so that you know your right to privacy and how that all works. I don't know which licensing board you're worried about but it shouldn't make a difference so long as you have a legitimate script and there are no issues that raise red flags. Hope that helps.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-30-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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  5. #5
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    First off I'm no lawyer or doctor. But as far as I know HIPPA laws protect patients for that reason. I'm sure some other members have a little more knowledge on the issue, and I'm sure some more will be by to offer more insight. I'll do a little research online to see what I can find.

    Looks like Cat beat me to the punch again. That makes Beef 0-2 this week. lol
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-30-2018 at 05:33 PM.

  6. #6
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Oh my God Cat. Thank you and God bless you. I have never ever done doctor shopping in my life. I took two 7.5/325 Vicodin daily for years for my herniated disc as recommended and prescribed by my family physician. But for the past couple of years I would take it even when I did not have the pain. The prescription was always the same quantity, same dosage by the same doctor. Actually my primary doctor who kept refilling the Rx now feels very guilty for not stopping this years ago, although we both knew I was in so much chronic pain. But the truth is I never shopped around and took exactly what was prescribed. After a few years is when I realized I may had developed a dependency and sought help from this psychiatrist. But ever since I went there (this could be my depressive side), I have been in complete full fedged fear that now I have just exposed myself and there goes my license. I did what my doctor told me and now that I want to be off it(even at the expense of severe back pain), I am now stressing over Suboxone and my license. I just never knew I would end like this after a back surgery 20 years ago. But thank you Cat for clerifying that. I just wanted to be sure.
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  7. #7
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Oh my God Cat. Thank you and God bless you. I have never ever done doctor shopping in my life. I took two 7.5/325 Vicodin daily for years for my herniated disc as recommended and prescribed by my family physician. But for the past couple of years I would take it even when I did not have the pain. The prescription was always the same quantity, same dosage by the same doctor. Actually my primary doctor who kept refilling the Rx now feels very guilty for not stopping this years ago, although we both knew I was in so much chronic pain. But the truth is I never shopped around and took exactly what was prescribed. After a few years is when I realized I may had developed a dependency and sought help from this psychiatrist. But ever since I went there (this could be my depressive side), I have been in complete full fedged fear that now I have just exposed myself and there goes my license. I did what my doctor told me and now that I want to be off it(even at the expense of severe back pain), I am now stressing over Suboxone and my license. I just never knew I would end like this after a back surgery 20 years ago. But thank you Cat for clerifying that. I just wanted to be sure.
    So your long term use of Vicodin was 15mg a day? My goodness I sure wish you didn't even need those subs. How much are you taking a day of the subs? More than a crumb would be overkill. Subs are very, very strong. Much stronger than the Vicodin you were taking.

    Not to scare you! I just want to get you some advice now while it's still early on after starting the subs to be sure you're at the lowest possible dose. Please fill us in with the details.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  8. #8
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Cat. That was my exact reaction. I did not even know what Suboxone was. So the doctor puts me on 15 strips. He told me to cut each strip to half and use twice a day. This was two weeks ago. My goodness Cat. I used maybe 4 strips and then I STOPPED. I have never ever been high in my life but I knew I was high on Suboxone. I sleep half the time and had massive massive headaches so I stopped after the fifth strip. I have an appointment tomorrow. I want to ask this doctor what was he thinking???? Was replacing 15 MG of Vicodin with this Suboxone the right trade off because I had never ever even come close to feeling I had with Suboxone when I took the two daily Vicodin pills. I swear to God, I knew something did not add up. I think this guy misunderstood me in thinking that I take 7 pills daily. Something does not add up. Now I'm just taking my Trintellix. No Vicodin or that damn Suboxone. I will ask him tomorrow and for sure fill you guts in. But Cat you heard it right. I took 15 MG daily for years.. Nothing more... Nothing less. That's why I was choking from fear that am I gonna lose everything because of that? Anyways thank you Cat and Beef. I'm not touching the remaining 10 strips of Sub untill I talk to him tomorrow. I have a feeling this guy misunderstood the amount of Vicodin I was on. I'm reading more about Suboxone now and it just doesn't add up why he woukd pour that much on me. God bless you all.
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  9. #9
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Cat. That was my exact reaction. I did not even know what Suboxone was. So the doctor puts me on 15 strips. He told me to cut each strip to half and use twice a day. This was two weeks ago. My goodness Cat. I used maybe 4 strips and then I STOPPED. I have never ever been high in my life but I knew I was high on Suboxone. I sleep half the time and had massive massive headaches so I stopped after the fifth strip. I have an appointment tomorrow. I want to ask this doctor what was he thinking???? Was replacing 15 MG of Vicodin with this Suboxone the right trade off because I had never ever even come close to feeling I had with Suboxone when I took the two daily Vicodin pills. I swear to God, I knew something did not add up. I think this guy misunderstood me in thinking that I take 7 pills daily. Something does not add up. Now I'm just taking my Trintellix. No Vicodin or that damn Suboxone. I will ask him tomorrow and for sure fill you guts in. But Cat you heard it right. I took 15 MG daily for years.. Nothing more... Nothing less. That's why I was choking from fear that am I gonna lose everything because of that? Anyways thank you Cat and Beef. I'm not touching the remaining 10 strips of Sub untill I talk to him tomorrow. I have a feeling this guy misunderstood the amount of Vicodin I was on. I'm reading more about Suboxone now and it just doesn't add up why he woukd pour that much on me. God bless you all.
    WOW! I'm glad that you are aware now because I didn't want to scare you or criticize you but so long as you are questioning things, let me tell you what I think. It think this doctor is nuts. Unfortunately, he's not alone. Most sub doctors over prescribe subs. They just don't know any better. They were trained by Big Pharma and so what they've been told is what they believe. So here's the deal. Go and talk with him and listen but don't just accept what he tells you. Do your own research and hop on here and let us know what he suggests.

    With the amount of Vics you were using, there is no possible way that you even need subs. Just as an example, I've seen IV H addicts induct on subs following the Sub Plan used here. They were able to get stable on around 6mg/day and some even less than that. Most moderate to heavy pill users, say 150mg-200mg/day can get stable on 4mg/day of the sub. Subs are estimated to be some 30 times stronger than morphine and their half life is multiple times longer than any short acting opiate. This causes a stacking effect so that what you took yesterday hasn't even entirely metabolized and then you add a new dose. Tomorrow, same thing. You have some of what you took two days ago, some from today and then add on tomorrow's dose. It doesn't take long before you have much more than your daily dose in your system on any given day. Did I explain that so you understand?

    If you can manage for another week without taking anything, the worst of the physical might be mostly behind you. It's hard to estimate because of the long half life of those subs you did take. In any event, it's my opinion that based on the amount of Vicodin that you were taking, ANY sub would be like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly. I'm quite serious. The fact that you were able to limit the amount of Vicodin you took to such a low dose over so many years tells me that you should do wonderfully just stopping everything. You may feel some physical symptoms as those subs wear off but other than that, I bet you'd do great.

    Please reconsider using the subs. If you do decide to use them, before you take another crumb, check in here and I or someone will guide you through a new induction. I doubt that you'd need more than 1mg/day, probably less and be perfectly fine. Your doctor won't like this idea, by the way. Those doctors are convinced that everyone needs a high dose and it just isn't so. Don't argue with him. It's not worth it.

    How many days has it been since you last took some sub? How are you feeling now?

    Geez!! Please rethink this and don't blindly trust your sub doctor.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  10. #10
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Cat I hear you loud and clear. My appointment is late afternoon tomorrow so as soon as I'm done, I'll be typing here. I read what you just wrote and my jaw dropped. 4mg of Sub for 200 MG of codeine? That's CAN'T BE???? You mean to tell me I was replacing 15 MG of codeine with 8 MG of sub???!?? As God my witness, whatever I have told you is the absolute truth. I don't know how I got myself in this mess. My partner kept telling me I could just stop the two pills a day and I did. But my damn depression kicked in like a tsunami. That's why I went to this guy. For my depression not my Vicodin. But I was honest and told him about my twice daily dosage. Then he just went on and on about resolving my addiction first before my depression. Like I said not knowing anything about Suboxone I just took it. Last time I used it was last Wednesday. I used maybe 4 or 5 of the 15 strips and then I stopped cause I could not. Then as I started reading about Suboxone, that's when I became completely paranoid about my license and my job. I realized this was mainly used to treat heavy hitter addicts and that's when I decided to post here. Right now I'm only terrified about the legal consequences of having used the darn Suboxone. I also think it was absolutely overkill and that's why I'm so scared and paranoid. I will reach out to you tomorrow.
    God Bless
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  11. #11
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Cat I hear you loud and clear. My appointment is late afternoon tomorrow so as soon as I'm done, I'll be typing here. I read what you just wrote and my jaw dropped. 4mg of Sub for 200 MG of codeine? That's CAN'T BE???? You mean to tell me I was replacing 15 MG of codeine with 8 MG of sub???!?? As God my witness, whatever I have told you is the absolute truth. I don't know how I got myself in this mess. My partner kept telling me I could just stop the two pills a day and I did. But my damn depression kicked in like a tsunami. That's why I went to this guy. For my depression not my Vicodin. But I was honest and told him about my twice daily dosage. Then he just went on and on about resolving my addiction first before my depression. Like I said not knowing anything about Suboxone I just took it. Last time I used it was last Wednesday. I used maybe 4 or 5 of the 15 strips and then I stopped cause I could not. Then as I started reading about Suboxone, that's when I became completely paranoid about my license and my job. I realized this was mainly used to treat heavy hitter addicts and that's when I decided to post here. Right now I'm only terrified about the legal consequences of having used the darn Suboxone. I also think it was absolutely overkill and that's why I'm so scared and paranoid. I will reach out to you tomorrow.
    God Bless
    I believe every single thing you've told me. We take things as they're said around here. There's no point in telling anything but the truth or we wouldn't be able to get the help we need and/or we get advice we that may not be relevant.

    I'll check in here late tomorrow afternoon or evening. I understand your doctor's reason for wanting to treat your addiction. I just hugely disagree on how he's offered to help you. Your situation makes perfect sense. You really needed an antidepressant and I bet you'd have let those couple Vicodin go along time ago. Have your doctor find you an SSRI that works for you. Now THAT would make sense. Aside from the depression, leaving those Vicodins behind is the best thing and you'll do great.

    Don't be worrying about any legal stuff. You had a legal prescription. Period. No one is ever going to even question it. This is no different than getting your monthly script for Vicodin. They are both the same schedule drug. Doesn't that make sense?

    I'll look for you tomorrow. Good luck.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  12. #12
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    Holy smokes. I'd be getting myself a new psychiatrist.

    Even if, IF he was trying to kill two birds getting you off Vicodin and also using Sub as an antidepressant, 2 mgs or less would have been the max. ALKS 5461 is in clinical trials, and I sure as heck don't recommend that either. Talk about trading a small problem for a monster.

    8mgs is nuts. Thank goodness you only took a few doses and had the wherewithal to stop before you got yourself into a new mess.

    An SSRI, OR DNRI such as Wellbutrin, combo of both to target serotonin and dopamine, or even better, LDN post opiates to bump lacking endorphin production is worth looking into.

  13. #13
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Rick. Just poking my head in and seeing how the appt went with your doc. Drop us an update when you get a chance.

    Beef
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  14. #14
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Beef, Cat and 1232. I'm so so sorry for my late response. I saw the doctor yesterday. When I told him I had stopped the Suboxone and the reason why I stopped, his response was why I did not continue taking half of tge dosage recommended? I was stunned. I got very upset and told him I followed his advice and trusted his judgment. Anyhow I gave him the remaining Suboxone back. Right now he has started me on Welbutrin and Trintellix. I truly underestimated the brain chemistry changes that are brought upon by Vicodin. Honestly I'm giving myself a year before I can call myself normal again. I also asked about the legal issues. According to him Vicodin is a class II drug while Suboxone is class III so if someone wanted to go after me they woukd have already done it. Plus every Vicodin I took was given legally by my family doctor. I never shopped around or got anything illegally so he said not to worry about it. You guts rock. Honestly people here care tons more than the so called doctors. Thank you from bottom of my heart
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  15. #15
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Beef, Cat and 1232. I'm so so sorry for my late response. I saw the doctor yesterday. When I told him I had stopped the Suboxone and the reason why I stopped, his response was why I did not continue taking half of tge dosage recommended? I was stunned. I got very upset and told him I followed his advice and trusted his judgment. Anyhow I gave him the remaining Suboxone back. Right now he has started me on Welbutrin and Trintellix. I truly underestimated the brain chemistry changes that are brought upon by Vicodin. Honestly I'm giving myself a year before I can call myself normal again. I also asked about the legal issues. According to him Vicodin is a class II drug while Suboxone is class III so if someone wanted to go after me they woukd have already done it. Plus every Vicodin I took was given legally by my family doctor. I never shopped around or got anything illegally so he said not to worry about it. You guts rock. Honestly people here care tons more than the so called doctors. Thank you from bottom of my heart
    Nice job advocating for yourself. I swear, you're far better off without those subs. He knows little to nothing about them proven by giving them to you in the first place for a habit of 15mg/day and at the astonishing daily dose. Crazy! You're going to do great and I bet it takes a whole lot less than a year to feel 100%. It definitely will be quicker than if you had stuck with the subs at any dose.

    Check in and let us know how you're doing.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  16. #16
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Cat. As you may know I started my first journey to recovery in January of this year. I even started a thread. I went for almost a month cold turkey. As I stated before I could handle and tolerate the physical symptoms but when it came to my mental state, I was getting worse as each day passed by. Cat believe me when I say I was becoming extremely concerned about my depression so I stopped and relapsed. I have always battled with depression since I was in my young teens and I guess I had used Vicodin to numb myself from depression for tge past few years. What I did not realize was that instead of treating my depression I was just adding to it and it was just a matter of time before it would show its ugly face again. Anyways after the recent relapse I went to my primary doctor and told him I wanted to be off Vicodin, that I had tried and failed. That's when I started to see this new psychiatrist two weeks ago, which is when I stopped the Vicodin for tge second time this year. The result is tge same. My mind is going dark. Only difference is that this time I have no access or any means of getting Vicodin. That only Vicodins I ever took were the ones being refilled by my physician and now that he knows about my situation, I'm completely cutting off from Vicodin I'm not and never been the type to doctor shop or get it illegally so now I'm very scared. I'm dreadful about how my depression will be impacted by this. Alot of addicts who never had depression might find it easier to deal with the mental withdrawal symptoms but for someone with history of depression, the situation becomes alot more painful. I'm keeping my expectations way too low this time and it's mainly because of my depression. I can get all the help and wisdom from you and all the wonderful people here. Thank you Cat

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Hi Cat. As you may know I started my first journey to recovery in January of this year. I even started a thread. I went for almost a month cold turkey. As I stated before I could handle and tolerate the physical symptoms but when it came to my mental state, I was getting worse as each day passed by. Cat believe me when I say I was becoming extremely concerned about my depression so I stopped and relapsed. I have always battled with depression since I was in my young teens and I guess I had used Vicodin to numb myself from depression for tge past few years. What I did not realize was that instead of treating my depression I was just adding to it and it was just a matter of time before it would show its ugly face again. Anyways after the recent relapse I went to my primary doctor and told him I wanted to be off Vicodin, that I had tried and failed. That's when I started to see this new psychiatrist two weeks ago, which is when I stopped the Vicodin for tge second time this year. The result is tge same. My mind is going dark. Only difference is that this time I have no access or any means of getting Vicodin. That only Vicodins I ever took were the ones being refilled by my physician and now that he knows about my situation, I'm completely cutting off from Vicodin I'm not and never been the type to doctor shop or get it illegally so now I'm very scared. I'm dreadful about how my depression will be impacted by this. Alot of addicts who never had depression might find it easier to deal with the mental withdrawal symptoms but for someone with history of depression, the situation becomes alot more painful. I'm keeping my expectations way too low this time and it's mainly because of my depression. I can get all the help and wisdom from you and all the wonderful people here. Thank you Cat
    I understand. Depression is a common theme with many addicts. Opiates do indeed help with depression, at least on the surface because we know all the bad stuff that comes along with it. You've been prescribed an SSRI so that's a good place to start. It's going to take a few weeks for it to reach it's full effectiveness. If it turns out that the one you've been given isn't doing the trick, then most definitely report that to your doctor so that he/she can either tweak the dose or change to a different med. Hopefully this one will be the right one but if it's not, try not to get discouraged.

    Battling depression is a full time job and it's scary and horrible. The best things to do are often the hardest. When you just want to isolate and shut down, the best thing to do is to shower and get out of the house. Be around others. I've found that the front part of doing that is the hardest part. It's far easier to get out the door if you're ready to go instead of having to get ready first. That can be a dealer killer. Getting myself presentable every morning has had to become a priority. Who knew that sometimes simply taking a shower and getting dressed can sometimes feel like a major accomplishment?

    There's no easy answers but I wish there were. Not allowing yourself to isolate will be a big step in the right direction. Please keep posting to let us know how you're doing. It's my wish that they're going to be able to find the right med for you. I don't know if you've ever tried them before but the difference it will make is often subtle and gradual so you might not recognize that it is making a difference. This is a common pitfall because some people get frustrated and stop taking them and it's only then when they fall back into the deep hole that they realize the med had made a difference. Be careful to avoid doing that. Best wishes.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-03-2018 at 07:49 AM.

  18. #18
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Cat. Not much here to add. I'm still battling the OCD thoughts of the legal issues of being in my position. Just about everyone has assured me there will be no legal adverse consequences of what I've done and been through. But from the second I wake up to the second I sleep I keep creating worse case scenarios in my head. I try very hard but it seems as though catastrophic thinking has spread in my brain like a virus. I've had the similar reactions in the past many times. but now with stopping Vicodin. It's become a monster. The worst part of it that I had a back MRI done 5 weeks ago and it shows I have two more/new herniated discs compared to 4 years ago. When it rains, it pours. I think I just have to take 4weeks off work and not only get my mind back, but also treat this degenerative disc disease. Basically do the things you suggested. If I don't take the Vicodin I'm in pain (although in all honesty I was taking 2 every day regardless of pain or no pain) . If I go back on it, then I'm back to where I started. I think the Vicodin suppressed the progression of the other degenerated discs without me knowing. I just assumed all was well. The MRI was a kick in the gut, the dependency realization was a punch in my chest and the Depression from it all is like a hammer to face. I think as I said I have to start taking care of myself physically and spiritually. All I have ever done work work work and ignore myself. My next visit is to a Neurosurgeon. If he says I need surgery, I'm not sure how I can handle another blow
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  19. #19
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by paronirick View Post
    Hi Cat. Not much here to add. I'm still battling the OCD thoughts of the legal issues of being in my position. Just about everyone has assured me there will be no legal adverse consequences of what I've done and been through. But from the second I wake up to the second I sleep I keep creating worse case scenarios in my head. I try very hard but it seems as though catastrophic thinking has spread in my brain like a virus. I've had the similar reactions in the past many times. but now with stopping Vicodin. It's become a monster. The worst part of it that I had a back MRI done 5 weeks ago and it shows I have two more/new herniated discs compared to 4 years ago. When it rains, it pours. I think I just have to take 4weeks off work and not only get my mind back, but also treat this degenerative disc disease. Basically do the things you suggested. If I don't take the Vicodin I'm in pain (although in all honesty I was taking 2 every day regardless of pain or no pain) . If I go back on it, then I'm back to where I started. I think the Vicodin suppressed the progression of the other degenerated discs without me knowing. I just assumed all was well. The MRI was a kick in the gut, the dependency realization was a punch in my chest and the Depression from it all is like a hammer to face. I think as I said I have to start taking care of myself physically and spiritually. All I have ever done work work work and ignore myself. My next visit is to a Neurosurgeon. If he says I need surgery, I'm not sure how I can handle another blow
    I'm so sorry. Physical healing is so much easier than emotional and mental healing. I feel bad that you are having to go through this. I had to drop a few words about a possible surgery for you. In the past two years, I have had three surgeries on my back. I've been clean for over 8 years. I was given one dose of pain killers in recovery after each surgery and didn't need or take anymore after that. I listened to my body and took care of myself. Spent a lot of time off of my feet for a few weeks and for once listened to my surgeon with no lifting, stairs, etc. I did perfectly fine. There was a little discomfort but nothing that found me wishing for a pain pill. I took Aleve or a prescription strength Ibuprofen. So, if you do need surgery, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will be back to taking the Vicodin. Maybe you'll need it, but maybe you won't. I didn't.

    If you are able, maybe you should take a bit of time off from work to see how it goes. Just be careful because this will create a perfect atmosphere to isolate which is the worst thing you might do. If you can take the time and use it to take care of yourself and perhaps do some things that you enjoy, then it just might be the thing you need. You'll know soon enough. If you find yourself not wanting to get out, then not working may not be a good thing. I know I struggled with not working because I too have always worked and worked a lot. I think I've finally found a happy medium. I'm not as busy as as I used to be but I stay busy enough I suppose.

    Keep posting. I'd like to know how you're doing.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  20. #20
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey rick. I'm sorry to hear about the back. I've had back pain since I was 17. (Thanks to football for that!!) I'm sure I'll need surgery down the road a bit, and it is something I'm not looking forward to. Like you said earlier you gotta take care of yourself first. I know for this addict, the whole time I was using I let my health take a backseat. Just out of neglect I suppose, i developed a "phuck it" mentality. And due to that I didn't take care of my feet and lost a toe and a half when an infection got into the bones in my toes. But I've been taking care of myself since then and not putting things on the back burner. It's life, and sometimes it's hard but necessary. Please keep us updated with how it goes with the neurosurgeon. Ask him a bunch of questions. What I've found works best is before I go there I write down any and all possible questions I can think of. Because it seems once I get the prognosis and recommendations I just get a blank look on my face and forget everything I wanted to ask.

    Keep your head up rick. You can do this!!
    Beef
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  21. #21
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Cat.. Beef... I think I might be in the wrong forum. I don't know how to combat the dysfunctional intrusive thoughts of license status. Can you guys believe that I'm in middle of battling hurniated discs, Vicodin withdrawal and my mind is consumed about what if I lose my license. It's tearing my apart and I have no control to stop it. I have used ration, fact, logic and even solid support from my doctors not to worry but it's the OCD army just bombarding my brain with a single thought. Taking those antidepressants is like taking M&M candy. They have ZERO impact on this single thought. I went to a psychiatrist and I feel 100 times worse as soon as realize what Suboxone was for. I swear I woukd have never got it if I knew it will plant the seeds of this thought. S... tty part is I did not even use it as recommended and stopped when I found out what it was for. Since then, I guess without Vicodin, without Suboxone and with some weak antidepressants my OCD is at full force. It's as though I want to call the board and admit I used Vicodin and the Suboxone... Punish me now... Guys. Please.. Any words of wisdom

  22. #22
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    All I can tell you is to not stress over it. I know it's easier said than done, but you have nothing to worry about. You had legal prescriptions and you used them properly. If they report you they are the ones who would be in trouble I'm sure. HIPPA laws are in place to protect the patients. So try your best to put it out of your mind.

    As far as the welbutrin. I know it needs some time to build up in your system before you will notice my improvement. Give it a few weeks before you toss it to the side. See how you feel and if you need something else than talk to your doctor and see if there's another anti depressant that he would recommend. Just be patient with it.

    Have a great day my friend.
    Beef

  23. #23
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Beef for you kind words but my words can not explain how brain is functioning right now. I think some one else said it here"You would not wish such self punishment even for your worst enemy" I read alot here about how people are sick. vomiting, in pain and more. But very few people tap into the mental hardship of this process. I was reading one where the person actually developed depression after detoxing which breaks my heart. As you may recall I was making great progress a few months back, going cold turkey but I kept writing in my blog about my mental health. We.... This is the reason. Yes I relapsed but because I was seeing myself going deep down where I am now. My mistake was that I used Vicodin to treat both my depression and herniated disc's. It work for a few years but not only I started to see cracks in my depression but last year I realized I was dependent on Vicodin too. That's why 2018 was supposed to start with a big bang. But so far it has been cruel. I realize what you are saying about HIPPA, I realize that I have broken no law but rather got myself addicted simply following whatever my doctor wrote and recommended. I realize I never shopped for doctors nor did I ever use more than the doctor recommend. But does any of that matter to my thought process???? Zero. I have zoomed in the worse case outcome scenerio and I keep replaying the scary movie in my head. I starting to regret returning the remaining Suboxone to my psychiatrist. I mean what was I thinking? "That I can eat my depression, my back pain and my dependency by a bunch of antidepressants? Its so far has not worked. I don't know. The thing is that obviously there is no way in this word I will get more Vicodins since my doctor is on this as well. So I'm very very scared.
    Best Regards
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  24. #24
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    I know, Rick. Those antidepressants are going to take more time to take effect. I began one myself last year and I began to feel "lighter" after a couple of weeks and then a bit better by the end of four weeks. The change is subtle. I just began to feel calmer and a little more in control. A little more at peace. I'll take it!! I know you would too.

    These thoughts you are having, I understand are all consuming and I also know there's nothing you can do about them. Honest. I know. I haven't experienced that very dark place myself but my best friend is manically depressed and has been for nearly thirty years and probably longer than that. I've had her live with me when I didn't trust her to live by herself. In the beginning, I did try all the reasoning and all that stuff that others do to rationalize things. She's extremely intelligent but nothing I could say would make a difference. After a time, I began to really understand that all the fears and hardship were very, very real and there was nothing I could say to make it better. Oh I tried to get her interested in things that I had hoped would take her out of her own head. Nope. That didn't work either. I'm not comparing war stories. Simply letting you know that I really do get it and I'm sorry.

    I still think it was a good thing that you stopped the subs. They wouldn't have fixed you right up either. Please give the antidepressant a chance. I know they feel useless and maybe it will end up being that they are but maybe not. If they are, there are plenty of other things your doctor can try until they do find the right one. Back to my friend. The same thing happened to her. She was prescribed various different meds for her depression and she swore they did nothing. Several months later, she stopped taking them because of that. Within a couple of weeks, she began to see that they had made a difference as she fell back down to that low awful place. She began to take them again and never stopped again. She's not cured or all better but she functions on most days. She gets out and there are days that she actually enjoys herself. Yes. There are still bad days but not nearly what they were before she began an SSRI or when she stopped taking it.

    Hang in there and give things a chance. Hoping you'll see at least a little difference in a couple of weeks. Fingers crossed!!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  25. #25
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Cat I'm so so grateful that you shared your friend's battle. It istrue life stories of ordinary folks that makes you feel you are not alone. I hear you Cat. I hear you loud and clear. Honestly I can not lose hope even if I was in a free fall with no bottom. I have 3 beautiful kids. It's has become so hard since I put the Vicodin aside and I'm basically riding this dry with antidepressants. I'm gonna trust on you with the Suboxone. It certainly made me like I was flying those 5 days that I was on it but then again I knew deep down this was just a Artifical super high that somehow was going to come to a crash. I'm going to see my psychiatrist on the 15th to see if the Welbutrin has helped. If not as you pointed out he might change the recepite. But I hope this coming week will be somewhat tolerable. Working has become very challenging. Thoughts are consuming me like your friend... Sounds like less or more I'm very much like her. She was very luck and fortunate to have a friend like you. My wife has been very supportive but when she sees me crying, she keeps asking Why... Why do you feel like this? "Poor my wife. She says nothing will happen to your license. You have not committed any crime or broken any professional rules. But what she says enters one ear and gets crushed before even going out the other ear. I'm also fortunate to be able to share this with you as well as others. Thank you. Thank You
    Best Regards

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