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I'm crying out for help, but there's nothing you can do.
  1. #1
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Unhappy I'm crying out for help, but there's nothing you can do.

    I'll try to keep this focused on my problem. About 2 years ago, after years of abuse of alcohol and meth, I got sober and then decided to use kratom. My use went up and up. I tried to detox, but it was bad, so I made the decision to use strained poppy seeds.

    To the past: 5 years ago i was on poppy seeds a few months and naïve about it all. I went into a rehab where they detoxed me. They let me out of detox after 3 days and on the 4th day i started to detox. Beware that it takes a few days before you start to detox on poppy seeds. Anyways, the detox was horrible. I was in a ball crying all the time. I lost touch with reality and needed to hold on to things to get a grip on reality, massive pain and no sleep. The doctor gave me a pill and within a day or two, I started to feel normal again. Later I researched the pill they gave me, Buspar, and found out, through government pubmeds, that Buspar was equally effective compared to Benzo's and any other detox methods. It really was a miracle pill for me, incase anyone is looking for something to detox off any type of opiates. Also, combined with melatonin, pubmed research shows possible neurogenesis. The regrowth of neurons in the brain. You can google it. At least it worked on me.

    Back to the story: I was on poppy seeds for a few months and, suddenly, I started losing massive weight and i was in a constant state of terror. I don't know what happened. No matter how much I ate, the weight kept shredding off of me. I felt like electricity flowing through my brain and body combined with a constant state of panic. I felt it from the time I woke up until i went to bed. I wake up not being able to breathe. I can only speculate that I started to have severe adverse effects to the opiates. I went to the ER and the Dr. and it seemed everyone discounted me when they heard i was on drugs. I was so scared. I looked like i had cancer. My Psychiatrist got me on suboxone. Looking back, I'm surprised she put me on suboxone after only 3 months on opiates, but I'll say yes to any drug to try it out. I ended up on 16mg a day, but the weight loss, state of fear never left. I think it was effecting my sympathetic nervous system (the fight or flight response), it was all screwed up. People thought i was still using cause how sucked up i looked. Slowly, my weight went up some, but the horrible feeling never left. In the back of my mind, I thought i was maybe having side effects from opiates, but didn't want to tell my Psych cause I didn't want her to stop giving it to me. This sounds horrible and weird and I cant explain it, but I'm having really horrible side effects from the Suboxone and continue to use it cause I get something out of it. I finally managed to slow down about 6 months ago. I went thru some discomfort a few days, but got down to 1-2mg a day. I felt so much better. I gained back my weight, I was sleeping like a rock, all the discomfort was gone and I felt so good. Within a few months, I was all the way back to the way it was before. I told my Psych about all the problems i was having, but not that it was because of the suboxone. She prescribed me Lyrica, which helped a lot. For a long time, I had to keep my lyrica dosage down cause it would make me groggy, but then I started taking more and more. It really helps with the panic, but now i'm taking more and more.

    So now the current problem: Most of the time I'm in a state of Terror with electricity pumping all through my brain and body, i wake up in the morning with my chest full of anxiety and prob breathing, I've locked myself in my apartment and cant get anything done or go anywhere, I've had really bad health issues since this happened. Every year I get Pneumonia, last year 2 times. My digestive system is now screwed up. I now have bronchitis. I'm starting to have neuropathy problems in my arms and hands. I just saw the dentist and he said I had significant bone loss, so my teeth will be falling out. 2 years ago, my x-rays showed that my teeth were fine. Its all because of these adverse effects from the suboxone. I feel like I have no control, I'm up till 4am and sleep to 3pm, I cant get myself to do anything, but sit at home and do large amounts of suboxone and lyrica. I don't think i could ever do it, but sometimes I think about ending it all, just make it all disappear, they're just brief thoughts once in a while. Alcohol would make it all go away for awhile, but I cant even drink. It feels horrible on suboxone, which is probably good cause I'm a horrible alcoholic, but maybe I should try drinking again. I'm lost and I know I'm dying. I made a call to a rehab, but I'm not sure if they take people for suboxone detox and I don't think I can even get myself to walk there. I have no control anymore to do anything. If a miracle happened and someone showed up at my door and took me somewhere to detox, I would go, but that's not reality. My dad would have done it in the old days, like he's done twice before, but now he's to old. 81. I should be taking care of him. I have a biopsy coming up and it looks like i have prostate cancer. I'm having such a bad adverse drug interaction, Why don't I stop or slow down? I'm usually in a constant state of panic, something's wrong or something really bad is going to happen to me. I'm so unhealthy, dying, alone, afraid. A miracle isn't going to happen and nobody can say anything to help cause I can't act. I wish I could maintain on a low dose cause it really helps with my depression and its a great pain killer, but i do more of anything i like. There is no maintaining on a drug that makes me feel better. In my head, the answer is so simple. Slow down, I could go down to 2mg a day with no withdrawals or problems. or tough if out and quit, or walk down to the rehab, or tell my psych. In reality, I have no control and stuck in my head. I'm crying out for help, but I know nobody can help me.

  2. #2
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Oh dj...
    I hope you log back in we are all here to support you... Yes no one can help you but you... You have to really want this for yourself more than anything else... You are worth it... I will have hope for you... Miracles do happen I promise you I thought I would never get clean like you I lost all hope...

    ~When we become beaten
    we become willing....

  3. #3
    ChiefChe is offline Senior Member
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    DJ-

    Welcome to the forum! I also believe in Miracles & you should too b/c they happen everyday. You CAN do this so stop believing the opiates when they say you can’t. They’re very clever with that bait & switch routine.

    Here you are Not Alone so keep posting & getting all your thoughts out. I’m not an expert by any means but the way your feeling now is definitely a result of everything you are taking & the amounts. We can help you if your willing.

    You have a Purpose & it’s time to uncover it!

    Light & Luv,

    ❤️
    Che

  4. #4
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Thanks for caring. There's not much more i can say. Its just so horrible. My life is over. Its all up to me, but i have no strength left. Im kind of hoping to have a heart attack or something. Then, if I live, 911 will get me and maybe ill be forced off it or a doctor will help me. I really have nothing to live for anyways.

  5. #5
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    . . sorry, I've been up for 2 days and really out of it. I'm afraid I took to much and won't wake up tommorrow. I prob will tho and the cycle will start all over again.

    Its funny wierd, when my psych or anyone else asks me if i'm depressed, I say no. I keep thinking I don't feel depressed, but I really feel like my life is over, I would sleep 24/7 if I could, I have no intrests at all. I'm 54 and my health is going to >>>>s. Found out I'll be lossing my teeth. I have 0 friends cause the suboxone has changed me into a dick (seriously, I'm not even me anymore, its changed my personality). I feel if I happened to get sober, the best that would happen is getting a >>>>>> minimum wage job and living a worthless life. I've been in this apartment for 2yrs and have only used and watched tv. I have bad credit, I lost my licsense, I can't function to get a job, I lost my relationship with the thing i loved most, my kid. A completley meaningless and hopeless life.

    Once in a while, I feel an ounce of hope and think everything will change and get better, but only rarely. I wish I could make someone make me get better, but thats a dream. Sorry again, I guess I'm saying the same thing over and over. Who wants to listen to a complainer? I wouldn't. Maybe someone will identify with me and get some comfort.

    Thanks for reaching out.

    Maybe tommorrow.

  6. #6
    ChiefChe is offline Senior Member
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    Hi DJ-

    Today is the Tomorrow you Promised yourself Yesterday. Today You ARE NOT alone! Just for Today Focus all your energy into Staying Strong. You were strong enough to start a thread so keep the Faith!

    I can relate with your story b/c I have also been in that dark place you describe. I know that when you hit that bottom the only way out is up. You Can & You Will do this! I know you want this & I want this for you!

    Set a small goal for yourself today...as small as sitting outside taking in all the beauty nature has to offer. Maybe even start thinking about a plan to lower your dosage for the subs. You did it once, you can do it Agsin!!

    With A Shred Of Hope,

    ❤️
    Che

  7. #7
    ChiefChe is offline Senior Member
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    Hey DJ-

    It’s Me again. I forgot to ask...What meds are you currently on & the dosage amount? This will help us help you.

    Stay Strong Just For TODAY,

    ❤️
    Che

  8. #8
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    Hi DJ.....
    I just wanted to give you my love and support❤️. I know it seems easy for me to tell you not to lose hope.....but there IS always hope. You have more power than you think. I’ve been in that dark place as well....and I never thought I’d come out of it....but I did.....and I truly believe that you can as well. There are many amazing people on this forum that can help guide you in the right direction. I hope you continue to reach out on here. Please know that you are worth it❤️
    Sending love....
    ❤️Maggi

  9. #9
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Thanks everyone. The support really means a lot to me. Sorry I'm blabbing so much. Its been a couple years since I've talked to anyone, except for my therapist a couple times, but I stopped seeing her. I was pretty low last night. Staying up for days is really wearing on me.

    I'm on 16mg suboxone and 150mg Lyrica 4 times a day. Also, I'm prescribed small things for sleep. I told my therapist about my problem with suboxone and she was worried about me abusing over my prescribed dosage. When she heard that i was using less then prescribed, she thought everything was ok. I could tell she wasn't worried anymore when she found out i was using less then prescribed. I have really bad adverse side effects to the suboxone, not sure why. I'm not sure of the cut off either, but i think its anything over 4mg. It might be at any dosage, but the lyrica covers it up pretty good. I lost massive weight. I get rashes and welts. The last time the welts turned into sores and they had to give me anti-biotics. It still took 3 months to heal. My immune system is compromised since I've been on it. I get pneumonia pretty often and sores take forever to heal. My dentist told me that there is bone loss in my teeth and that it will continue and I will loose my teeth from it. They were fine 2 years ago and dentist thought it was going on for years. One of the worst side effect, at least in how it feels, is what its done to my sympathetic nervous system. I'm in a high state of fight or flight. Its like electrical impulses pumping through my brain and body and in a high state of terror. I'll block my door at night sometimes with multiple chairs cause of some unwarranted fear. The lyrica was helping some, but i found out, that at higher doses, it helps a lot, so now I'm starting to abuse that. This is all because of suboxone. It sounds crazy, why would i continue something that is doing that to me? I'm literally dying from it, but its like i get energy and something out of it. Its so crazy what i would do to myself for it. And its like people don't believe me or something. I told my therapist, but as soon as she found out that I was using less than my prescribed amount, she thought everything was ok. I could see the relief in her face. I was so so disappointed when she didn't acknowledge the horrible side effects I was having from the suboxone. I thought she would be in shock and say "Whoa, how can you do this to yourself. We have to fix this". It really is that bad, and yes, I keep doing it. I do hide it from my Psych and others. The last few days I'm starting to shake. I also found out I might have prostate cancer and I don't think my immune system can handle what i have to go thru. I really need to get off it. Also, My money is running out and I'm in no condition to work and that's freaking me out.

    Anyways, I slept for 12 hours and felt pretty good when i woke up. I didn't even feel like I needed it and planned to wait awhile or maybe a couple of lower doses for the day. I ended up taking a slightly lower dose earlier, but in the evening I took a big dose with a big dose of lyrica. I really need to try and get to bed at a decent time and not stay up all night. that's the plan and go for smaller doses tomorrow. I got an email response from a rehab a few days ago. They told me I need to walk down to the walk in clinic and file some paperwork to determine if I can get help. Its a free one thru the state health care. Everyday, I keep trying to get myself down there. My other plan - when I see my psych on Dec. 3rd, I'm going to tell her I'm going to stay with my parents a month or so to detox off suboxone. There's no way I can do it on my own and there's a lot of good support with them. I really hope she gives me something strong for the withdrawals. Like Benzo's, but only for 2 or 3 weeks. When I withdrawal, I completely break down mentally and physically and not even sure I can handle it. I keep making these plans in my head, but so far haven't carried anything out.

    God Bless Everyone, your loving care is felt

  10. #10
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djcarson View Post
    Thanks everyone. The support really means a lot to me. Sorry I'm blabbing so much. Its been a couple years since I've talked to anyone, except for my therapist a couple times, but I stopped seeing her. I was pretty low last night. Staying up for days is really wearing on me.

    I'm on 16mg suboxone and 150mg Lyrica 4 times a day. Also, I'm prescribed small things for sleep. I told my therapist about my problem with suboxone and she was worried about me abusing over my prescribed dosage. When she heard that i was using less then prescribed, she thought everything was ok. I could tell she wasn't worried anymore when she found out i was using less then prescribed. I have really bad adverse side effects to the suboxone, not sure why. I'm not sure of the cut off either, but i think its anything over 4mg. It might be at any dosage, but the lyrica covers it up pretty good. I lost massive weight. I get rashes and welts. The last time the welts turned into sores and they had to give me anti-biotics. It still took 3 months to heal. My immune system is compromised since I've been on it. I get pneumonia pretty often and sores take forever to heal. My dentist told me that there is bone loss in my teeth and that it will continue and I will loose my teeth from it. They were fine 2 years ago and dentist thought it was going on for years. One of the worst side effect, at least in how it feels, is what its done to my sympathetic nervous system. I'm in a high state of fight or flight. Its like electrical impulses pumping through my brain and body and in a high state of terror. I'll block my door at night sometimes with multiple chairs cause of some unwarranted fear. The lyrica was helping some, but i found out, that at higher doses, it helps a lot, so now I'm starting to abuse that. This is all because of suboxone. It sounds crazy, why would i continue something that is doing that to me? I'm literally dying from it, but its like i get energy and something out of it. Its so crazy what i would do to myself for it. And its like people don't believe me or something. I told my therapist, but as soon as she found out that I was using less than my prescribed amount, she thought everything was ok. I could see the relief in her face. I was so so disappointed when she didn't acknowledge the horrible side effects I was having from the suboxone. I thought she would be in shock and say "Whoa, how can you do this to yourself. We have to fix this". It really is that bad, and yes, I keep doing it. I do hide it from my Psych and others. The last few days I'm starting to shake. I also found out I might have prostate cancer and I don't think my immune system can handle what i have to go thru. I really need to get off it. Also, My money is running out and I'm in no condition to work and that's freaking me out.

    Anyways, I slept for 12 hours and felt pretty good when i woke up. I didn't even feel like I needed it and planned to wait awhile or maybe a couple of lower doses for the day. I ended up taking a slightly lower dose earlier, but in the evening I took a big dose with a big dose of lyrica. I really need to try and get to bed at a decent time and not stay up all night. that's the plan and go for smaller doses tomorrow. I got an email response from a rehab a few days ago. They told me I need to walk down to the walk in clinic and file some paperwork to determine if I can get help. Its a free one thru the state health care. Everyday, I keep trying to get myself down there. My other plan - when I see my psych on Dec. 3rd, I'm going to tell her I'm going to stay with my parents a month or so to detox off suboxone. There's no way I can do it on my own and there's a lot of good support with them. I really hope she gives me something strong for the withdrawals. Like Benzo's, but only for 2 or 3 weeks. When I withdrawal, I completely break down mentally and physically and not even sure I can handle it. I keep making these plans in my head, but so far haven't carried anything out.

    God Bless Everyone, your loving care is felt

    I'm very sorry to hear about everything that you are going through, I pray that you find something positive that will provide you some relief and hope for the future!

    As far as the subs are concerned, you are taking way too much! Most people feel best on 4mg/day or less? We can help you get off the Suboxone if you're willing to listen to our instructions and follow Robert's Suboxone therapy/taper plan? Robert's plan has produced thousands of success stories, it's tried and proven to be the best way to taper off of subs!

    The following thread below will give you all the information that you will need to safely and effectively use Robert's Suboxone therapy/taper plan? Here's the link -
    https://forum.drugs.com/suboxone-tre...ant-74973.html

    Although I left this information for another member, the same info and instructions apply to you as well! Let us know? Take care... God bless us all!

  11. #11
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    Hi again DJ.....
    I was happy to see that you posted again❤️. And I’m glad to see that you are communicating with your doctor. I’m curious if maybe the adverse affects you are feeling could be from the Lyrica? I could be way off....but when I was in that dark place about 13 years ago I was prescribed several antidepressants and a couple of them ended up having adverse affects for me. I almost felt like I was in worse shape after I sought help. It wasn’t until I switched doctors and was taken off the medication that I became better. I’m not saying it’s the case for you....but I know that some of those types of medications have the risk of doing more harm than good......and sometimes a different medication may be better.
    Like I said before....you are definitely worth it. I hope you continue to reach out. Praying for you❤️
    ❤️Maggi

  12. #12
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the info. I've actually read up on all types of taper methods. I can't even slow down. I break off chunks, drink coffee, pop some lyrica and go and go and go till I finally crumble and then sleep 12 hours, get up and do it again. Now I'm starting to add Tylenol even tho I know how dangerous that is. Maybe I have a death wish. I usually wake up and think "this is the day". I feel like I can do it, but then later in the day the plan falls all apart and it starts all over. I eat once a day. I'm starting to have weird things happen to my body. I have the knowledge to get better, but so many days have gone by where I think I'm going to do things different that I'm giving up. I appreciate all the care everyone is giving me, but its the same thing that happened with my therapist. I realized that I was expecting some kind of Miracle thru osmosis, but there's no miracle words that's going to change anything. I just pray to God that I will act, but it feels like its going to end badly.

  13. #13
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Hey Maggi, the Lyrica came in much later. About 6 months ago. It actually helped a lot. It calms the panic and terror, but last week I took a big dose and it helped ALOT. So now I'm taking more and more. I'm out of control.

  14. #14
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djcarson View Post
    Thanks for the info. I've actually read up on all types of taper methods. I can't even slow down. I break off chunks, drink coffee, pop some lyrica and go and go and go till I finally crumble and then sleep 12 hours, get up and do it again. Now I'm starting to add Tylenol even tho I know how dangerous that is. Maybe I have a death wish. I usually wake up and think "this is the day". I feel like I can do it, but then later in the day the plan falls all apart and it starts all over. I eat once a day. I'm starting to have weird things happen to my body. I have the knowledge to get better, but so many days have gone by where I think I'm going to do things different that I'm giving up. I appreciate all the care everyone is giving me, but its the same thing that happened with my therapist. I realized that I was expecting some kind of Miracle thru osmosis, but there's no miracle words that's going to change anything. I just pray to God that I will act, but it feels like its going to end badly.
    Hello dj...
    What we think we feel... So lets start and end on a positive thought eh? Why not what do you have to lose or you might just see that nothing changes if nothing changes... Oh how I identify with expectations... Expectations we put on others we have to step back and realise everyone is human we have flaws no one is perfect. So have you decided on a plan moving forward? Taper, cold turkey or just getting face to face support. The fellowship saved me it gave me my life back did I want to go nope but I did I pushed myself to go something had to change and what I was doing for sure was not working. We do not have to go threw this alone nor do we have to dj pick up the phone call the hotline someone will get you to a meeting... Your life depends on it!!! You are worth it...
    davepeerson likes this.

  15. #15
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    My plan seems to keep changing. I'm horrible at making any decision. Everything is always racing thru my head at once. My normal plan is to take 3 smaller doses for the day. I'm usually good at the first dose, but around 5pm everything goes out the window and I go for 2 days straight going crazy. Today I was reading up on tapering and I would love to be able to moderate at 1-2 mg a day cause all the bad side effects go away at that level, plus, its good for my depression and Pain, but now I'm thinking that's not realistic. My other plan is to go down and stay with family in Arizona for a 3 week quick taper off of it. They know what's happening. I know I can't do it alone and I really need that kind of support. I see my Psych on Dec. 3rd and I'm going to tell her what I'm doing. I'm hoping she'll give me a couple weeks worth of Benzo's. Based on my last detox 10 yrs ago, its going to be really really bad. I should get that out of my head though cause I really don't know how its going to be and I need a strong mental attitude going in. A lot of times, I feel like I should just walk down to the rehab walk in clinic to be evaluated. They might take me in right away. The way I'm going, that would prob be the smartest option. I'm so out of control and worry about something bad happening health wise. I walked that way today just thinking about it, but couldn't get myself to check it out. Todays done, so tomorrow I plan on taking 1.5mg, 3 times. If I can do that and go to bed at a reasonable hour, I would be really happy. What ever I choose, I cant get the fear of withdrawal out of my head.

  16. #16
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    Hi DJ.....

    I know exactly how you feel about fearing the withdrawals. When I mentioned that I was in a dark place 13 years ago...I was completely unaware of what withdrawals were. I had started taking pain pills not even knowing that I could get addicted to them (crazy, I know). So I started taking 8mg subs....not knowing anything about them really. I was beyond depressed....like in a black hole it seemed. I lost my job....and got even more depressed. I didn’t know why I felt physically sick all the time. I slept all day long and didn’t go anywhere. Completely withdrew from everything. My boyfriend felt it would be a good idea for me to go stay with my mom for a couple weeks so she could help me. Ironically...she lives in Arizona. So I went......and when I did, I didn’t take any subs with me and ended up basically jumping from 8mg. I had no idea what was happening. My mom was unaware of what had been going on. But it all came out on the first day I was there when she saw how sick I actually was. I couldn’t hide it anymore. She took me to the doctor, and by that time I had been in withdrawals for 7 days. They ended up prescribing me an antidepressant and it ended up helping so much. I stayed in Arizona for 1 month and then went home. I didn’t mean to babble on about my story with that stuff.....but when you mentioned possibly going to stay with family....I just knew how much that helped me...and think that it would be an awesome idea. And since your family is aware of what’s going on....maybe you can give them your meds so they can give you proper amounts each day so you can do it successfully.
    As far as the fears of withdrawals.....because of what I went through the first time around I’ve been terrified of it. But I know so much more now because of the advice on here.....and it’s truly made a difference. Following this taper plan has been a piece of cake compared to what I went through before. I know it’s tough to see that though because your mind gets consumed about what’s happened before. But it’s not too late for you to do this taper the right way. And once you start doing it, you’ll see that it’s not as bad as what we imagine. We always get in our own heads....I’m notorious for it. But like I said before....you have more power than you think.....and you are so worth it.
    ❤️❤️❤️Maggi

  17. #17
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hello DJ and Welcome,

    How you doing today? I see that you already have a few faithful cheerleaders here. So good! I'm gonna take a shot here and be completely and utterly frank with you because I think you need to hear it. What I have to say to you is nothing that you don't already know in both your head and your heart but it appears that someone needs to lay it out there so that you can move forward in the right direction.

    You are out of control. Welcome to the club. All the addicts that are members here have been where you are right now, are going through it at the same time as you, or are terrified but desperate at the same time to take that first step into recovery. Nothing you have said about your life or how you are feeling right now comes as a shock to any of us. Believe me, you have our deepest compassion and understanding. You, just like me, are an addict. Our lack of our self control with any addictive substance is what put us here in the first place. Why then, would we expect that to change? It won't! We will never have control over our drug of choice. Not ever. There's no gray area here. Either we are active addicts or we are in recovery. Period. For me, tapering my drug of choice (any and all opiates) was a lost cause before the plan ever got off the ground. There are people who have successfully tapered and I am always in complete awe. That's some demanding stuff that I simply have never been able to handle. That doesn't mean that I didn't find a way to finally get and stay clean after nearly 20 years of severe addiction and after countless detoxes and relapses. I've now been clean since January, 2010. It was then that I found this site and all the wonderful members here. I became inspired but most importantly, for the first time ever I came to terms with the very simple fact that the only way to sobriety and recovery is to walk through it one moment at a time. Aside from support, all the work belongs to us and us alone. I do see from your posts that although you wish otherwise, you are getting closer to truly understanding this. Now, you have to stop wishing it weren't so and that there is another pill or another doctor who will fix you right up. Don't we all wish this were the case?

    The anticipation of detox is absolutely terrifying. In fact, it's this anticipation that really is the worst part of it. Don't scoff. It's true. You have some serious work to do. Take inventory of the things that keep you avoiding recovery. You haven't been honest with your psych. You want to walk into that clinic and ask for help but you don't. Am I surprised? Of course not! I did the same thing and I knew the reason I did it is that I was afraid and unwilling to close any door that would provide me with drugs. My primary care provider is wonderful and would have helped me at any point if only I would have asked. The bad news, I knew, was that by asking for her help, I was ending my ability to get that next script. What???? Nope. I didn't want to be in active addiction. I hated it but I hated the idea of not having the option for that next script even worse. Can you identify with this. Bet you can. The ugly truth is that I wished there was a way that I could continue to use without any negative fallout. I couldn't imagine navigating life without using. Ha! You're not as unique as you think you are.

    Your next psych appt isn't until 12/3. I'm thinking that at the same time you are wishing that appointment was sooner, you are also thankful that it isn't sooner. This is the tightrope we all walk while in active addiction. The first step is to replace the procrastination with determination with a healthy helping of hope. Become inspired! Read as many threads as you can stomach. Choose the really long threads by those who documented their entire journey. It's nearly impossible to not feel hope and inspiration. I promise you that you'll find others who felt as hopeless and frightened as you and in spite of it, put one foot in front of the other over and over until they worked their program and were able to remain in recovery. You can count me as one of those people. After nearly 20 years of it, I had accepted the grim fact that I would die an active addict. Today I can say that there's a good chance that that won't happen.

    Call your psych immediately and beg for an earlier appointment. In the meantime, put pen to paper and write down everything that you are feeling and an accurate record of what you're taking and how much of it. Bring that to your appointment and give it to your doctor. That cat needs to let out of the bag. Any help that your doctor can give to you is dependent upon how truthful you are. He/she needs the facts. Just a word about those benzos you're hoping for to help you with detox. I wouldn't count on it. They are highly addictive in a very, very short span of time and are among the most difficult drugs to get off of once someone is addicted. The subs you are taking should be tackled by a slow and very structured taper plan. I hate to say it, but the advice you will get here for such a taper will be much better than what your prescribing physician would give to you. In fact, most sub doctors are of the belief that subs should be used long term and maybe that's what you really want to do. I hope not but in any event, I'd encourage you to begin the taper plan used here to get your dose down. I totally agree with you that the 16mg/day is WAY, WAY too much and it's making you sick. How about allowing us to guide you to getting that dosage down? What have you got to lose?

    Going to say with your parents for a while does sound like a good idea. I do, however think that this time can and should be used to get that sub dose down but to not attempt to stop it abruptly. It's been proven over and over on this Forum that Subs do have a ceiling effect at about 8mg/day. That means that you could probably immediately reduce your daily dose to 8mg without any true physical distress. You very well may have head games going on trying to make you believe that you need more but you won't. You could stay at 8mg/day for between five and seven days to be certain that you're stable and then begin to make reductions of 25% every four or five days as per the protocol. The Plan is precise so not only will you need to be careful that your doses are consistent and accurate but the number of doses and the times of day you take them are of equal importance. The process is successful because it will keep you out of aggressive withdrawal as well and to teach you structure so that you stop reaching for a dose just because you want one. If you are with your parents, it would be brilliant to hand your pills over to them along with the schedule of reductions and allow someone else to give you EACH dose, not enough for each day. Having someone in person to talk to and to keep you occupied will help you tremendously simply by keeping yourself out of your own head.

    Hope I haven't offended you. That was not my intent. I got the most benefit from the posts left for me that were brutally honest because Heaven knows, I wasn't being honest with myself. I hope you take the message(s) I'm sending with acceptance and consideration. I only wish to help so let me know if I can.

    Peace,

    Cat

  18. #18
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Thanks to you both. Its been the same, staying up 2 days sucking on the suboxone and eating the lyrica. Then pass out for 12 hours, then repeat. My hats are off to anyone that can taper off this drug. I am not one of those fortunate. You are right, I am completely out of control and I am dying from it.
    I didnt realize how much it was wreaking havoc on my system until i went to the dentist. He said there was substantial bone loss and I would lose my teeth. Can you imagine how devastating that is to know your going to lose you teeth!! Talk about depression on depression. One of the things he mentioned, was the possibility of a compromised immune system. He didnt believe me and thought the last dentist missed it. I remember talking with that last dentist 2 years ago and talking with him about how my good genetic history has maintained my teeth, but even now, I'm always licking and smacking my gums because my mouth is so dry. Nothing helps. Biotin, gel, sugarless gum, drinking lots of water, nothing helps. Just like all the other health issues i've had since I've been on suboxone, like losing 30 lbs in a month.
    And your right, its truly insane to still be using this drug and wished I had kept abusing other opiates. My Psych should never had prescribed it to me. I've been abusing drugs and alcohol for years, but had only been drinking poppy seed tea for 3 months before she prescribed the suboxone to me. I do take responsibility for saying yes. I'm happy everyone here could taper. I can't even slow down. I should walk down to the walk in clinic and I think about it every day. Still might, but I have a prostate biopsy on Nov 23rd and not sure how long they will keep me, but Ill prob do the Arizona route. I'm going to tell my psych, so she can prescribe me something for the detox. I don't think 2 or 3 weeks of benzo's will get me addicted. I never liked those downers anyway.
    I'm only going to bring enough suboxone to give me a 7 day taper. Then I will be forced to go thru it. I can't see any other way, except to give me no option. I'm so scared of the withdrawals and I completely break down mentally and physically. I lose touch with reality and cry and cry and cry and I have to hold on to things to keep my in touch with reality. I know I set myself up with this, so I'm trying to completely ignore it and just do it. I have to do it. I have to do something instead of watching my body completely deteorate.
    I do read the posts here everyday and they are very inspirational and makes me dream of what can happen. I'm not accountable to anyone here. No job, no friends. I never talk to anyone. Thats been ok for me for a long time, but now i'm starting to have other feelings. I'm starting to feel alone and scared and I wish I had somebody to share this horrible experience with. Thats why I think I'll go to my parents. I hate to do this to them because they're 80 years old with their own problems, but I really need somebody and I know they want to do anything that would help me get better. I don't know if they have any idea what i might go through. I dont even know if they, or anyone else, believes that the problem is a prescribed medication. I look so sick and I know my brother thought, and still believes, that I was still using meth. Nothing I can do about that except to hand them the meds and go through with it. Im only bringing a small amount of suboxone with me, so if i'm going to go through hell in detox, so be it. There's no looking back from there, but that actually feels good to know.
    As always, I only meant to write a paragraph, but I really thank you for sharing and caring. Personally, I know I can drop down to 2mgs a day with no withdrawals. I here these people taking a long slow taper from 16, 15 14 . . etc and I personally think thats insane. I was reading some article from a doctor and he was talking about you don't really go thru withdrawals until you hit the 2mg mark and I believe it. No matter what, once you hit that 1 or 2 mg mark, the real bad withdrawals are going to happen unless you do a slow taper from there. For me, my nerves start to go haywire, start to lose massive weight, and all the other adverse side effects start to happen with anything over 2mg and get worst as I increase. I'm going to have to suffer and go thru it. If there was a place where they would hand out the suboxone for a slow detox under 2mg, I would do it, but I cant find anything like that with the free state sponsored health care. Anyways, I dont know if anyone actually cares about all this rambling and I wouldn't expect anyone to read but God Bless

  19. #19
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    First, I have to say that i appreciate everyone's concern. I hope i don't offend anyone, but I won't follow any advice. I have no control anymore and all I can do is watch myself descend into hell. This is becoming more of a diary of a mad man.

    Today started out pretty good. I got up at a decent time, rode my bike and kept my dose of suboxone at a reasonable amount. I thought I had an appointment tomorrow, so the night was structured to get to bed in time. As I was getting ready to take my night meds, I realized that the appointment is not until the next day. I had a sudden feeling of excitement, but also dread. I instinctively grabbed a couple of lyrica and made a cup of coffee. I'm also getting ready to take a big chunk of suboxone. I don't even measure it anymore. I talk about it in chunks. God, I hope i go to bed tonight, otherwise, tomorrow will be a haze. No feel good. It just ends up being a really hard day and eating chunks of subs to help me get through it. Its so hard on my body.

    My fingernails are chipping now, my teeth are falling out, its caused weight loss and im malnutrientioned and now I found out I probably have prostate cancer. How can my body fight cancer the way it is? i found out recently that higher doses of lyrica helps with the panic and terror alot, but I also realize, that if I continue, I'll build up a tolerance and it will stop working and that will be a unbelievable horror. I dream of walking out my door and walking down to the clinic for treatment. Its about a 15 min walk there. One day I walked by it and just stared.

    There isnt anything anyone can say. I'll read it, but I act only on impulse now. I still think I'll go to Arizona to detox with my parents. I hope its not another dream. I think it will happen since they're buying the ticket. I'm a bum. I live on handout. i get my housing and food through welfare. I don't do much anymore except sit here and watch tv, but if its an appointment or somewhere I need to be, I found I will still go. I can get myself to go somewhere if its been planned, but that happens rarely and the rest of the time I'm just on full using mode. No sleep patterns, no restraints, no contact with anyone. There's alot of depression, anxiety, terror, aloneness and l'm lost. Im not accountable to anything or anybody.

    The mornings and afternoon are the worst. I don't even really get anything out of the suboxone, except for some energy. I guess there is something there, but its not like I'm feeling high (maybe i am?). So I don't understand why I can do this to myself. Maybe I want to die. I know I've thought about it alot lately. I don't think I really want to die, but I do want to disappear. I want it all to disappear. I wish I could drink and blackout, but the suboxone has also taken that option away from me. I've mostly abused alcohol mixed in with spurts of drug use my whole life. I was drinking between 1 to 2 5ths of vodka every day, along with smoking tons of meth the last couple of years of drinking. All that major abuse and still my body handled it all and came out healthy some how. my teeth and all, but 2 years of suboxone destroyed me. 30 years of major alcohol and drug abuse and suboxone tears me down in less than 2. I understand it was my choice, but I would not have chosen this path of suboxone if I knew what it would do to me. My meds are free. Its a legal prescribed hell that almost seems worse then a bottom from drugs and alcohol cause I can maintain the looks of sobriety to the outside world.

    I don't own a gun. I love guns. They're fun, but I always worried that I might turn it on myself, especially when I was drinking. I know the thought of losing my teeth makes me want to eat the barrel. I really have no reason to live. I sound so depressed, but, its weird, i still dont think of myself as depressed. I don't understand it. I read my words and it sounds like I have major depression, but I still think I'm not. What does that mean? God help me. If your reading this, I commend you. I'm not really writing for anyone. I'm just writing to write. To express myself in some way I havent done before. Help me Father. Help me do something different. Help me help myself do something.. Anything!!

    Its a couple of hours later now. I've sucked a big chunk of sub and mixed with the lyrica I'm starting to feel pretty good, or at least not bad. That doesn't happen very often. It might last and hour, or if I'm lucky, two. Finally, a moment away from it all. I guess this is what i'm willing to die for. This small moment where everything is ok.

  20. #20
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    Hi DJ....

    Obviously I don’t know you....but that’s not going to stop me from being a source of encouragement for you. I appreciate the honesty in your post. I’m sure many people here can relate to not seeing a way out....myself included. I do think you’ve been sucked into depression. Words are powerful.....and although you may be speaking honestly about your situation....changing your inner dialogue is super important. YOU are the reason to live. I also encourage you to do the Arizona thing. Your environment will affect a lot. Regardless of how old you are....your parents want the best for you. Again I say....you’re more powerful than you think. Facing our demons and what we’ve done to ourselves is SO difficult to deal with. But you need to forgive yourself....it is possible to change. If it were easy...everyone would do it, right? But if you keep doing what you’re doing, you’ll keep getting what you’re getting. I know you said that it pretty much doesn’t matter what anyone says on here....but I will be praying for you. You are still so worth it❤️
    ❤️Maggi

  21. #21
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Thanks Maggie. I know youve got your own thing going, so i really appreciate you checking on me. And your doing so good!! I also really identify with alot that youve said. I really believe that Ill do the Arizona thing, but sometimes I wondering if there is some subconscious plan to back out as the time gets close, but there is no reason to dwell on that and ive already talked to my parents. I havent talked to them yet about coming a few weeks early to detox. I keep thinking i might walk down to the clinic instead. I didn't go to bed last night, so im getting a little anxious, sleepy and depressed. Im planning to go to bed at 6pm so i won't get up to early. I decided to start keeping track of the amounts and times that im using. I completely lost track of how much im using, so i think that will help with my dosing. We'll see. Im starting to nod, so im checking out. Its really nice hearing from everyone

  22. #22
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    . . not that kind of nod . ☺

  23. #23
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    You got jokes I see!
    Arizona is going to be a really good thing.....and it might be a good idea to not put a time limit on how long you’re there. When I went there during my dark time...I was in full withdrawal since I had no clue....and it took me a month to feel confident enough to come home. I know it’s different for everyone one though. Try not to overstep the process. You said before that you think you’d be fine at a lower dose. Maybe you can try to do what you can before you go to get to that lower dose. I know in our lovely minds we think we need more more more! Especially because we are numbing ourselves to get through the day. But I know with subs that less is more. You definitely won’t need as much as you think you do. I know you said that you probably won’t take any advice....but you’re at least getting it in your mind by reading your thread as well as others. Changing our habits and changing the way we think is no easy task. You can do it though! That’s great that you’re going to keep track of your use.....that will help you determine what you’ve actually been taking so you can adjust from there. When I was at more than 1mg...I was dosing twice per day. Once in the morning, and once in the evening. Start by making a small goal for yourself. And remember to really try to change your inner dialogue. I think you’ll be surprised at how well you can do. I certainly have been surprising myself so far....and I’m the least disciplined person ever! And let me just say how proud I am of you for reaching out on here....whether you’re just venting, responding to posts, or just reading different threads.
    ❤️Maggi

  24. #24
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    Hi DJ....

    Just checking on you. I hope you’re hanging in there okay.

    ❤️Maggi

  25. #25
    Djcarson is offline New Member
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    Thanks Maggi. Im maintaining. Good days and bad. Just kind of waiting for Arizona to detox. I keep trying to figure out i can keep using and then i realize I'm just fooling myself. Hope your doing good to. Dan

  26. #26
    Maggi19 is offline Member
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    I’m happy that you’re still out there DJ. Hang in there.....Arizona will be a really good thing if you approach it with the right mentality. Hope to hear from you again soon!
    ❤️Maggi

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