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Just got on Suboxone -- Need advice
  1. #1
    magecharlie is offline New Member
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    Default Just got on Suboxone -- Need advice

    I was taking morphine for pain and ended up taking too much.. My anxiety took over and I ended up flipping out and my wife threatened to have me committed. So I went into a detox facility instead.

    The doctor there put me on 24 mg of sub. I reacted to that--foggy headed. He dropped it to 12 after 2 days . I now have a rehab doctor that prescribed me the same amount: 12 mg. He says I have to stay on it a year before tapering it.

    I know that is a lot. I want to know how to taper it now.

    If I drop to 8 mg a day will I suffer much withdrawal? I know the last mg or 2 is the worst.

    Suggestions? I was on opiates for 11 years with no break. 24/7.

  2. #2
    magecharlie is offline New Member
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    I've been on Sub since May 2. 12 mg since May 4. It's the sublingual film.

  3. #3
    kbdrugfree is offline New Member
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    Hi magecharlie, did your doctor say he wanted you to do the tapering yourself or was he going to do the tapering schedule for you? Suboxone is a great drug, but it's not something we, as patients, should be messing with as far as dosing, tapering, and administering go. I think a question like this would be best answered by your physician. Only he knows what's best for you. I hope this helps.

  4. #4
    magecharlie is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your response. Based on a lot of posts I've read I don't much trust the doctors....

  5. #5
    magecharlie is offline New Member
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    I just found out that i may not be able to get my prescription filled until Thursday. I will be out of the sub by then. So for safety I may need to drop the dose now to 8 mg / day.

    Is that going to be a problem is the question.

  6. #6
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Suboxone has a long half-life and 8mg. is close to a .25% drop that you may feel >>>>>> for a few days until you get stable, but you should not have any terrible w/d, at least nothing that you cannot deal with. If you do start on the 8mg. stay there. There is no sense staying on suboxone any longer than you need to, a year at 12mg. is not necessary. Subs are not a magic cure-all and you'll find, reading some threads here, that the longer you are on, the more difficult it will be to get off. The "tool" part of suboxone, is that taking it and doing a strict taper, will give you time to get your act together. I will post the taper plan here, and it's been tried and true for many people here. The get your "act" together part is about finding help to stay off the opiates via NA or AA, addiction counseling. The reason we tout NA, AA here is because it works and helps you to become accountable for your addiction, as well as providing f2f help from people who have been exactly where you are now.

    Taper plan:

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

    Read this carefully.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  7. #7
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi magecharlie, welcome.

    Did you get a chance to look at the sub taper plan that Rose gave you? It's what most of us here have used to taper off sub.

    Yes, staying on sub for an extended period of time can spell disaster. I made the huge mistake of staying on sub for many years and am now finally down to .5 mg. It's been really hard sometimes. But, for those who are new to sub (like you), the tapering process and subsequent "jump" off is usually pretty smooth.

    The taper plan recommends dropping your dose by 25% at a time, and only when stable. Stable means having little to no WD symptoms. Most people who are new to sub find that they can comfortably reduce every 4-5 days or so. Listen to your body. The idea is to not get complacent at a dose, but yet make sure you're stable before dropping so the rest of the taper will go smoothly.

    You mentioned possibly not being able to fill until Thurs and having to reduce to 8 mg for now. If you don't feel stable at that dose you could go back up to 9 mg and stabilize there before resuming your taper (a 25% drop from 12 mg is 9 mg).

    I agree with Rose about NA/AA. It can make all the difference in the world.

    Kat
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  8. #8
    magecharlie is offline New Member
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    THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

    The w/d symptoms I am experiencing on 12 mg are as follows:
    I have been splitting the dosing into 3rds.
    when I get to the end of the 8 hours I get some yawning and minor RLS.
    that is at 12 mg
    how long does it take to get stable at a given dose and am I stable at 12?

    Thank you so much for your input!!!! I hear you about NA/AA. I plan to go to an AA mtg tonight.

    btw... Can a urine test tell how much sub one is taking? I am sure they can see big changes. But how precise is it?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-14-2014 at 12:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magecharlie View Post
    THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

    The w/d symptoms I am experiencing on 12 mg are as follows:
    I have been splitting the dosing into 3rds.
    when I get to the end of the 8 hours I get some yawning and minor RLS.
    that is at 12 mg
    how long does it take to get stable at a given dose and am I stable at 12?

    Thank you so much for your input!!!! I hear you about NA/AA. I plan to go to an AA mtg tonight.

    btw... Can a urine test tell how much sub one is taking? I am sure they can see big changes. But how precise is it?
    Most people who are new to sub find that they usually stabilize within 4-5 days. That's just an average, though. Let your body be your guide. You won't feel "perfect". There may be some mild symptoms from time to time. Being stable is about being comfortable for the most part.

    So, you're still at 12 mg? You didn't have to drop to 8 mg like you thought because of your refill date?

    This is very important: you shouldn't dose more than TWICE a day. Sub has a long half-life, and especially at a high dose of 12 mg, it will hold you. Some people only dose once a day, but most dose twice a day until they get down to lower doses of around 1-2 mg. The reason for this is to break the addictive behavior of "always reaching for something". Sub should be taken at about the same time(s) every day. For instance, if you're still at 12 mg, take 6 mg in the morning and the other 6 mg at least 8-10 hours later. My dosing times (when I was above 1 mg) were always around 8 am and 8 pm. That's what worked for me. This allows for a steady flow of sub in your system at all times.

    I'm not sure about the drug test thing and whether or not they can tell how "much" you're taking. Are you worried about your doctor finding out that you're tapering? How often do you have to test?

    So glad to see that you'll be going to a meeting. Good for you!
    Kat
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  10. #10
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I forgot to mention...try Hyland's Restful Legs supplement for the RLS. Most people who use it say it works really well.

    Kat
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  11. #11
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    How's it going with the taper? Hope things are well. Post an update when you get a chance.

    Kat

  12. #12
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi magecharlie I see where Kath and Rose have replied to you and both have given you good advise as they both always do. Your Dr sounds like most sub Drs in that they don't know subs or want you on them for a long period to get more money off you. Some will even tell patients that they will have to stay on subs rest there life probably. If you are having to give a urine sample at your Drs office and they are just checking it there then they can not tell how much subs are in your system. They would have to send it to a lab and ask the lab to check the amount of subs in your system to actually know. I was prescribed 16 mg a day and dropped to 12 mg right away and actually stayed there a lot longer then I needed to as I was not aware of the taper plan. If you follow the taper plan here and build up a stash then you wont have to see your Dr that many more times. Best wishes to you and hope to talk to you later.

    Alex

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    Alexnt trying to ask you a question in a pm since you seem very knowledgable with sub. Don't want to bother you but I think I'm taking too much sub. I mean my oxy addiction was very high I was taking 60 10mg pills a day. Does your sub dose get based on ur addiction dose. I am 33 yr old female 5"4 and 110 pounds. Doctor 5 days ago started me at 24 mg a day. Been making me very nervous and anxious... I have been taking 22mg a day. But today I've only taken 8mg so far and feel great...normally I'd have more by now. Pls help!

  14. #14
    MadMax03801 is offline Banned
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    Hi Magecharlie, welcome. You will find that this is a great forum for advice and support. Lots of people here have helped me so far. I can certainly understand you not wanting to be on suboxone for a year as your doctor suggested. It might seem like just dragging it out, but honestly, I found that it took me a decent amount of time away from full agonist opiates to get my head screwed on straight(er.) Everyone is different, but I don't advocate going straight to a taper after stabilizing. Stabilize on as low a dose as possible, this is key. I still think I could've stabilized on less, though who knows for sure. The most important concern is not to relapse though. For sure, my biggest mistake was staying on the same 8 mg dose for over 6 years. After one or two years, I really should've started to taper. I think my doctor would be happy to have me on it for life, honestly. I would bring up tapering and he would talk me out of it, finally I just started on my own after 6 1/2 years and feeling like it needed to be done. I did tell him about though, of course.

    In spite of that, I would still follow your doctor's advise and stay on for a year. Maybe do a gradual taper after 6 months or so. I think it's really important to do lots of addiction counseling and AA or NA meetings and really take it seriously before tapering. It can be hard to do, because you do start to feel all better and think, "I don't really need all this >>>>." It's worth it though. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the real goal is to be able to stop using suboxone and then stay clean and not relapse. It takes some time for most of us to be able to do this and tapering off subs is definitely something I only want to do once! I wish you good fortune and success whatever you decide to do. Everyone is different, for sure. Keep us posted!

  15. #15
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwanttobeclean View Post
    Alexnt trying to ask you a question in a pm since you seem very knowledgable with sub. Don't want to bother you but I think I'm taking too much sub. I mean my oxy addiction was very high I was taking 60 10mg pills a day. Does your sub dose get based on ur addiction dose. I am 33 yr old female 5"4 and 110 pounds. Doctor 5 days ago started me at 24 mg a day. Been making me very nervous and anxious... I have been taking 22mg a day. But today I've only taken 8mg so far and feel great...normally I'd have more by now. Pls help!
    Iwant,

    It's hard to judge what dose you will need, in some ways yes it is dependent on your usage. If you were taking something like Vicodin you probably wouldn't need a high dose of subs to keep the withdrawals away. But no one should be taking 24 mg.

    You dropped from 24 to 8 fairly quickly, the taper plan most use calls for a 25% drop every 4 days. If you've stabilized at 8 mg then stay there for 4 days. Don't drop anymore until you are sure you feel ok at that dose. If you feel badly at 8mg then you need to go back up a little and get stable. This only works if you are stable before you drop.

    I'm going to post a link to the taper plan most of us have used:

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

  16. #16
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    Sharks fan i really appreciate your advice...when i wrote that yesterday was when i had only taken my morning 8mg dose i did take another 8 mg around 5:30 pm. i took 8 mg as well this morning and plan to stay on 16 for 4 days. I do think i was going through precipitated withdrawl first few days and thats why i kept uping my dose. Now not sure if i need to redo this whole process. So confused but thank gd not thinking abt oxy and feeling good.

  17. #17
    blackstrat is offline New Member
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    To tell you the truth most Sub doctors know very little about the drug. Prescribing the drug is very profitable for them. To say you have to be on Subs for a year is ridiculous. Two weeks max for someone that is using Suboxone for opiate abuse, is the longest a person should be on it. In my uneducated opinion, 4 mgs twice a day is all you need. But truly everyone is different, I also can take a Sub within 6 hours of a opiate and have no ill effects, others say you have to wait like 24 hours, (which I think is balony) but who knows.

    Stay on it the shortest amount of time possible and then get the hell off of it! Otherwise your Sub doctor will be your new drug dealer and when you do try to come off of the Subs it will take months before you see the light of day! Just my imput, take it or leave it.

  18. #18
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    In my semi medically educated opinion.....lol. That is a very very high dose its going to take you ages to taper! If I were you.....>> lower the dose to around 2 mgs tomorrow and see how you feel.

    A: Because you have more then enough suboxone in your system to cover the wds from opiates for the next 3 days Or more!

    B: Because since your so new to the suboxone your body still hasnt "stabilized" yet on a dose. You want to get stable on as low a dose as possible if your looking to get clean as soon as possible.

    Tapering has to be done slow and right. 2 mgs suffices for pretty high habits. Doctors are extremely educated yes....but a little too cocky at times. Suboxone is a newer drug for opiate addiction. They take a very short seminar. >> like to see how sick that dr got from 24mgs! You poor thing! You mustve felt SO sick. Im around your size a little shorter and >> feel sick anything over 1 mg. Its a very strong drug. Very under estimated. BuT the good news is many of us here Including myself and others have used it properly and tapered off. The less time your on it the better. But also you need to take into account why some addiction specialist want to keep people on it so long. Its not JUST to stop wds. Its to put as much time between you and your drug of choice. To give you time to make the much needed changes and answer some ReaL questions about where you want to be in 5 years. Alive on drugs, Dead, or LIVING. Your choice.

    Its a good "stepping stone" but you have to take those steps! Your on the right track though! Congrats! Keep us posted!

  19. #19
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    ps I think you definately were going through precipitated wd. If your scared try cutting it down to 4 mgs. Im extremely confident thats more then enough to cover your wd. 2mgs morning and 2 mgs night youll be fine! Youll honestly probably feel much better then you do now. The higher doses (above 2 mgs) have more side effects. The lower doses work effectively minus the side effects so you feel so normal!

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