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just seeing how long i can last till a relapse?
  1. #1
    Theo111 is offline New Member
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    Red face just seeing how long i can last till a relapse?

    Hi guys,

    Il keep this as short as possible. So the title kind of says it all. I have been using opiates for about 5 years now, 90-150mg oxycodone the first 4 years and MOSTLY suboxone for the last year, 1-1.75mg. I was never prescribed the oxy's for pain, i felt as if i was self medicating my self-diagnosed depression/anxiety.

    In my early 20's i did really well for myself. I was self-made and had a really bright future in my opinion. I smoked weed quite heavily most my life and drank on weekends but thats about it. I then got introduced to opiates when i was about 22 and didn't even like it that much. It made me sick. But it was ALWAYS around it since my "friends" would come over my place all the time so i just sort of phased into opiate addiction. By then i pretty much completely stopped weed and alcohol.

    It got really bad when my business imploded. I lost everything. I had to move out of my beautiful place and back to my parents home and fell into deep depression. I started using 4-5 times a week. This has went on for about 4 years or so. Around this time last year i decided to take proactive measures against my own self-destruction. I googled around and found this message board and followed Roberts taper method. I was skeptical but i had nothing to lose so i tried it.

    I inducted on about 2.25 mg and tapers down to 0 in i think maybe a month and a half. It was not that easy for me as it seems like it has been for others. I was depressed a lot and felt very nauseous the first couple weeks. But i did it. I tapered down to nothing and stayed sober for a whopping whole 10 days. I relapsed to my DOC thinking just "one time". "One time" led to many many more times and before i knew it i was right back to where i was before.

    This has become a trend for me. I have done Roberts taper method about 4 times in this last year. I take a couple weeks to taper down to about .75mg suboxone, relapse on oxy's a handful of times, go back to Roberts taper method, relapse etc etc...this is become a massive problem and a mind bogglingly stupid habit.

    The thing is, is that even with this incredibly stupid habit I have really turned my life around this last year. Just not being either high or in withdrawal most the time really gave me a launching pad to jump start my life back up. On the outside it may appear i am doing great. But on the inside, there are many days i feel as if i have no soul...just...empty. I don't know what to do. I am not suicidal but i get very sad, its hard to explain. I know from previous experience i don't have the tools necessary to beat this on my own. Don't know what i expect to get out from posting this but here goes.

    This was longer than i intended

    thank you for reading.

  2. #2
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Theo,

    I just replied to your post on my thread. Relapse is a part of recovery, but it will continue to happen until you decide you've really had enough. A lot of people will say they've had enough, but having to deal with the difficult emotions during early recovery leads them back to using. I was a chronic relapser until I accepted the fact that I'd have to deal with things getting worse before they got better. When we stop abusing opiates, we all find it extremely difficult to deal with life in general, especially with things that test our emotional resilience.

    Have you ever been involved with NA or AA? I used to scoff at the idea of going to meetings, but they have literally saved my life. All my other attempts at recovery failed, and now I know it's becuase I couldn't do it alone. Not even the support of this forum, as great as it is, could keep me sober. I needed face to face support from those who had gone before me. Going to meetings and getting a sponsor was the best thing I ever did for my recovery.

    Are you back to tapering or still taking pills? We're here to help and support you.
    Kat
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  3. #3
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Welcome back!

    I am the same as Kat.. I thought I am not going to those meetings.
    But they have saved my life.

    I was willing to try anything!


    You can always go back!
    The same cr&p will be there.. That is one thing we can count on..

    Recovery the opportunities are endless..

    We are here to support you,

    Iluv2

  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome Theo,

    Kat is on spot, again....The back and forth from your DOC to subs and on and on hasn't given you the opportunity to reboot and recover. It takes a CONSTANT period of sobriety to attain a sense of acceptance and peace for yourself. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. This is one paradox of addiction and relapse. It's difficult to get enough time behind us and as addicts, we are so used to an instant feel good that we return to using. It is only when we give up trying to find that peace that it will find us. Funny how that happens (not the haha kind of funny!).

    Meetings are so important to most of us in recovery. Accountability on a face to face level can work wonders. This forum really is amazing but we addicts lie even to ourselves so it's very easy to lie here as well. That does no one any good. I wish I could say that in X number of days, weeks, or months you'll be as good as new but that just isn't the way it works. The process is gradual and we have to work at it until that work becomes second nature and it's an instinct rather than a chore. Does this make sense? I hope at least something here does. You're so young with your entire life ahead of you. We all deserve to be at peace. Happiness is a relative term to me; it is there where ever and whenever I care to notice it. If I can't find it where I'm at, then I go and find it.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  5. #5
    Theo111 is offline New Member
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    thank you all for the wise words.

    I am currently on 1.25 mg subs. This is a dangerous period for me because this is usually around the dose i relapse. I am self-employed so i pretty much set my own hours i work which leaves me with more time on my hands, which, as an addict is probably a bad thing. I get these extremely intense periods of cravings throughout the day and it is a constant battle not calling my dealer.

    Has anyone else experienced depression going through this taper? I tell myself that its just in my head but there are times that i just feel utterly hopeless and alone. Just blank empty sadness. Oh, and extreme nausea as well.

    Anyone who has been through and overcome this seems to tell me that it cannot be done without NA or AA. Stubbornly i chose to believe that i am the exception. I never leave these meetings feeling any better. If anything it makes me feel worse? I still go infrequently, couple times a month maybe. But you all seem to know what your talking about so i will stop being foolish and make an effort and go.


    I really appreciate this. Thank you.

  6. #6
    Theo111 is offline New Member
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    Its a Friday night. My girlfriend invited me out to go watch a movie and grab a bit to eat with her and her brothers but I just can't imagine myself socializing. I just want to hide in my room. This cant just be me being on suboxone right? Sometimes I think I suffer from depression and that its the underlying reason to why I turned to drugs in the first place.

    Sometimes I just want to scream. I went out to eat by myself real quick and I saw staff members of the restaurant staff laughing with each other about something. I sat there eating my food and I found myself feeling jealous. I dont even fully understand why i felt it but I did. I know I have a pretty good life but I cant seem to appreciate ANYTHING. Just a lot of insecurity and hate brewing in my belly at all times.

    Sorry for the emo post. These are just some things I cant share with people I know I guess.

  7. #7
    melindau is offline Member
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    Hi Theo
    The thing about drugs is when we are on them...we seem to hide are real feelings... If you can stay straight the true feelings will come back I so promise you!!!
    Melinda

  8. #8
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theo111 View Post
    Its a Friday night. My girlfriend invited me out to go watch a movie and grab a bit to eat with her and her brothers but I just can't imagine myself socializing. I just want to hide in my room. This cant just be me being on suboxone right? Sometimes I think I suffer from depression and that its the underlying reason to why I turned to drugs in the first place.

    Sometimes I just want to scream. I went out to eat by myself real quick and I saw staff members of the restaurant staff laughing with each other about something. I sat there eating my food and I found myself feeling jealous. I dont even fully understand why i felt it but I did. I know I have a pretty good life but I cant seem to appreciate ANYTHING. Just a lot of insecurity and hate brewing in my belly at all times.

    Sorry for the emo post. These are just some things I cant share with people I know I guess.
    Don't apologize for expressing how you feel. These are the feelings we have to endure while trying to get clean. Our minds have been temporarily hijacked by opiates and need time to recover. You're not alone; everything you're going through is totally normal and we've all been there...or are still there. I has some serious blues throughout my taper and am still dealing with it on and off even now.

    As hard as it is to deal with the overwhelming feeling of sadness and emptiness, it will only get worse if you start using again. Any progress made will be lost and you'll be back at square one. I know what you're going through. It's temporary. Once the sub taper is over, your mind will actually start repairing itself. Things that help jump start the process are exercise, supplements, and lots of water.

    We're here for you.
    Kat
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  9. #9
    KSinMT is offline Member
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    Hi Theo! I can totally relate to the depressed feeling and not wanting to do anything. I've spent many weekends in bed the entire time, where even taking a shower felt like too much. And this has been while I was on sub so no, I was not even detoxing. There comes a point when Sub/opiates (sub is an opiate) turn on you and instead of that energized feel good, I can do anything feeling, we become dulled, depressed, and lose our zest for life. At the point the only benefit to sub/opiates is to keep the withdrawal away. We can function when we need to but nothing sounds fun anymore, our interests are lost, etc. I can also relate to the feeling of being envious of "normal" people who seem happier than me. I find myself feeling like that a lot actually. That is why I'm choosing to get clean and get off Suboxone. It's a process and it's going to take some hard work and there will be a lot of up/downs but for me and others who are struggling with addiction, getting clean and completely off drugs, including sub, is the only way to real true happiness and contentment. I think it was Kat who said it best, "short term pain for long term gain". Each relapse is one step further from that goal.

    You said you've tapered with Robert's 25% plan quite a few times but you always end up relapsing? I am not advocating long term Sub use but maybe you're not giving yourself enough time away from the oxy before getting off the sub? Maybe you should try staying on it a little longer this time while you get a good support system in place, before tapering off again. I would not recommend longer than 6 months though.

    In the meantime, as hard as it is sometimes you just have to force yourself to get out there and do things. There's been plenty of times where I've some function or something to go to and the the last thing I want to do is be around people, I'd rather just stay home and isolate like you said, but I find that once I actually get there it's not so bad.
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  10. #10
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSinMT View Post
    You said you've tapered with Robert's 25% plan quite a few times but you always end up relapsing? I am not advocating long term Sub use but maybe you're not giving yourself enough time away from the oxy before getting off the sub? Maybe you should try staying on it a little longer this time while you get a good support system in place, before tapering off again. I would not recommend longer than 6 months though.
    Hey Theo - The above quote from KSinMT's post is spot on advice in my opinion. If you get off the subs a little too quickly relapse can certainly happen. Nothing at all wrong with staying on subs a while longer to get yourself into the right frame of mind where drug use is no longer an option - or want!

    My tolerance to drugs and use was as high as anyone's. It too me about 9 months time on the subs for me to know I was finished using. I had zero cravings and never wanted to see a pill again let alone take one. I knew that if I had stopped the subs at 2-3 months I absolutely would have relapsed - I just wasn't anywhere near ready to give it up yet. But as I continued my subs it all changed. My thoughts became clearer and I wanted a new, clean life. It was at THAT point I knew I could SAFELY get off the subs.

    You have to get to that same point Theo. You will know when you are ready. Maybe you should take KS's suggestion and remain on the subs a bit longer? Up to you of course, but I agree with those thoughts. Take care and best wishes.
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  11. #11
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey Theo - The above quote from KSinMT's post is spot on advice in my opinion. If you get off the subs a little too quickly relapse can certainly happen. Nothing at all wrong with staying on subs a while longer to get yourself into the right frame of mind where drug use is no longer an option - or want!

    My tolerance to drugs and use was as high as anyone's. It too me about 9 months time on the subs for me to know I was finished using. I had zero cravings and never wanted to see a pill again let alone take one. I knew that if I had stopped the subs at 2-3 months I absolutely would have relapsed - I just wasn't anywhere near ready to give it up yet. But as I continued my subs it all changed. My thoughts became clearer and I wanted a new, clean life. It was at THAT point I knew I could SAFELY get off the subs.

    You have to get to that same point Theo. You will know when you are ready. Maybe you should take KS's suggestion and remain on the subs a bit longer? Up to you of course, but I agree with those thoughts. Take care and best wishes.
    Randy good post you made there. I spent 4 months on subs partly because my taper got of to a rather slow start the first month or so but looking back on it I am greatful that I did not do a 6 to 8 week taper. I do not know what the outcome would have been but with my history of relapses most alcohol related for many years. I really feel that 6 to 8 weeks would have backfired on me. Perhaps not but I am glad I took 4 months looking back on it.

    Alex
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  12. #12
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by melindau View Post
    Hi Theo
    The thing about drugs is when we are on them...we seem to hide are real feelings... If you can stay straight the true feelings will come back I so promise you!!!
    Melinda
    Melinda I sort of feel like I am sorta of highjacking this thread here and if I am out of line here I am sorry but I have really been wanting to post this to you. If I think you are who you are and I don't know if this has been asked from you recently and am not sure of current situations in your life but excuse if this is out of line but I was wondering how your husband is getting along?

    Alex
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