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long time sub user needs help!!
  1. #1
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    Default long time sub user needs help!!

    Please can someone guide me in the right direction here? I have been on subs for about 3 years and need to taper off asap. before summer if i can! i am currently on 2mg a day 1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening. Its only been 2 days and i feel great. im out of my mind nervous to go any lower. please help

  2. #2
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Jen, I suggest that you first read the taper:

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    Next, it's common to get stuck on the 2mg. I would suggest that you keep your dose to once a day, if that's what you have been doing. You can opt to stay on two doses, but at some point you are going to end up at one anyway. Read Alexnt's thread. There are many more people now going off sub after being on long term and it's totally doable to get off this drug. I would also go under "prescription drug abuse" and find the suboxone forum and post there. There are many people there who can help you with this process. If you opt to stay at 2mg. twice a day your next drop would be to 1.5 mg. at the recommended .25% drop, but you may want to try to go to 1.75 mg. for your first drop. Make sure you're stable where you are at the 2mg., especially if you opt at twice a day.
    Another thing you are going to want to do is to get plenty of exercise, eat well, drink plenty of water and above all else keep a positive mindset. Absolutely try the sub board for this and you will meet all kinds of people coming off of subs who will help you.

    Peace,

    Iloerose I originally posted this in "need to talk"
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  3. #3
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Everyone is scared at first: I suggest you drop to 1.75 and not the 1.5 that would be the .25% drop. Hang tough, you can do this.

  4. #4
    SoDone47 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Everyone is scared at first: I suggest you drop to 1.75 and not the 1.5 that would be the .25% drop. Hang tough, you can do this.
    You can do this! I've been on subs for about a year and a half... Started at 16mg. I just dropped from 1mg to .75... When I was at 2mg... I did the same thing... 1mg in am (8-9) and 1 mg in pm (4-5). When I went to 1.5 ... I adjusted my am dose to .5 and then kept my pm dose the same at 1mg. It went pretty smooth... I stayed there for 1 1/2 - 2 weeks... Low and slow... No rush! You got this thing!!!

    Then I dropped my pm from 1mg to .5mg. Now I was at 1mg per day... .5mg twice a day. Stayed there for about a month!

    Finally, felt like could take the next step! Two days ago I dropped my am dose .25 and kept PM dose at .50

    So far so good... We'll see - been 2 days. I Need to stay positive! I Need to start exercising! I'm going to do this! Taking B vitamins, L-tyrosine... The worst thing you can do is just sit around and wait for a bomb to go off... With low and slow and keeping busy... Positive thought... Your going to just walk right off!

  5. #5
    donna234 is offline New Member
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    Hi All, I'm new here and am looking for some help..... 3 years ago i had surgery for bulging disc in my neck. 1 year before and ever since I've take norco. Recently i fractured my pelvis and was again given norco from another doctor. this was the most painful thing i've ever experienced and started taking 6 to 8 10mg norco per day. I finally contacted one of the docs and explained what i was doing. She suggested taking 3 per day for 3 days, then 2 per day for 3 days, then 1 per day for 3 days, then 1/2 for 3 days. Has anyone tried this before? I want off of these, mainly because I've embarrased my self with 2 doctors and feel like a criminal and now they won't subscribe anymore, can't blame them, but I'm really in pain from the fractured pelvis. Neither doc will see me anymore. Any suggestions.....I'm totally embarrassed!!!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-21-2014 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #6
    knowbetter is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jensondy View Post
    Please can someone guide me in the right direction here? I have been on subs for about 3 years and need to taper off asap. before summer if i can! i am currently on 2mg a day 1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening. Its only been 2 days and i feel great. im out of my mind nervous to go any lower. please help
    ensondy,

    I am in my 5th day of withdrawal from 2 mg Bup daily (for over 2 years) Its my 8th day if you count the three days hydrocodone I took as prescribed by my MD. I have been on some form of Narcotic for over 20 years. My God, I cant believe its been that long. Dont want to sugarcoat the withdrawal because it aint been fun, but its something I am committed to. If you are ready...you can do it. But you have to be ready. As my name implies, I should know better since I am a health care provider. We all come to this place in our lives when we get tired of a pill and decide to go without the crutch. TBH, I know others say that other opiates do not help with coming off Bup, for me they did a little. They kept the absolute worst of the withdrawal away. Believe me I know withdrawal. I have been on Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, Oxycontin and then Buprenorphine and cold turkeyed myself off of all at some point. Though I never took the drugs for a high, sometimes in the beginning it was an inevitable side effect. My drug journey started after the first Persian excursion (Desert Storm). Came back with something unknown and very painful, but since I am in the medical field, we take care of our own...so to speak. If you can call the hell of pain meds being taken care of. But I am digressing. Since this is my 5th day off the Bup (Subutex) I can say each day is a little better. A little. I still have the hot flashes and chills sometimes at the same time, sometimes right after each other. As I write this, I am actually laughing as it is pretty funny to go from burning up to freezing with goose bumps in 5 seconds flat. The diarrhea is tolerable with lomotil. I do have an appetite. I have ZERO energy but I make myself exercise on my bike. I LOVE riding my bike (bicycle). I can ride for hours if the weather is good and get lost in my own thoughts or music. If you can evercise a little...do it. The one thing I have to stress is...you must get some sleep. Talk to your MD or DO. Get some xanax (.5mg) and Ambien. Ask him/her to give you no more than 15 tabs of Xanax and 30 tabs of Ambien. The Ambien is not such a big deal but long term xanax with fast withdrawal can be deadly. But not 15 tabs. You can use 15 tabs without fear. If you can get them, try taking one half of the pill .25 mg at bed time. If you dont fall asleep taker the other half. I take .5 mg Xanax and an Ambien and sleep for about 7 hours. Don't take them during the day...remember this is for sleep. Yes I have taken both the Ambien and the xanax at the same time to sleep at bedtime and I am still alive. Some who are more conservative will warn you about this...make your own choices. Only you know how much you can tolerate of the withdrawal. I know that I tried it for one day without sleep and I had to leave work early since I could not even think straight. Not been to work in a week. But since I never called in sick, it is not a problem missing some for me. I feel that day 6 is going to be better. Hang in there, if you have decided its your time, you can and will do it.
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  7. #7
    SoDone47 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jensondy View Post
    Please can someone guide me in the right direction here? I have been on subs for about 3 years and need to taper off asap. before summer if i can! i am currently on 2mg a day 1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening. Its only been 2 days and i feel great. im out of my mind nervous to go any lower. please help
    You can do this! I've been on subs for about a year and a half... Started at 16mg. I just dropped from 1mg to .75... When I was at 2mg... I did the same thing... 1mg in am (8-9) and 1 mg in pm (4-5). When I went to 1.5 ... I adjusted my am dose to .5 and then kept my pm dose the same at 1mg. It went pretty smooth... I stayed there for 1 1/2 - 2 weeks... Low and slow... No rush! You got this thing!!!

    Then I dropped my pm from 1mg to .5mg. Now I was at 1mg per day... .5mg twice a day. Stayed there for about a month!

    Finally, felt like could take the next step! Two days ago I dropped my am dose .25 and kept PM dose at .50

    So far so good... We'll see - been 2 days. I Need to stay positive! I Need to start exercising! I'm going to do this! Taking B vitamins, L-tyrosine... The worst thing you can do is just sit around and wait for a bomb to go off... With low and slow and keeping busy... Positive thought... Your going to just walk right off!
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  8. #8
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Jem welcome to the forums and your desire to get off of subs. Rose I see hap posted the link to the sub taper that most of us have followed here to wean off of subs. Roberts plan was written for people who were inducting at a fairly low of subs and his plan will work for you also but as a long time sub user it is often necessary to taper a little slower then his plan calls for. Don't worry though I have seen people who were on subs at rather high doses for a few years and were still able to use the plan and succeed in getting off subs. Ken who I see you posted to asking for help comes to mind as I believe he was on subs for 3 plus years and was able to jump off subs by following the taper plan here just by doing a slower taper then the one outlined here by Robert. as Rose pointed out. You stated you have been at 2 mg a day for 2 days now and feel great. What dose were you at befor you dropped to 2 mg? What is very important here is that you stay at 2 mg a day until you are sure you are completely stable before attempting to drop any further. Rose pointed out your next drip would be to 1.5 mg if you drop 25 % of your current dose. I only used subs for 4 months so I was ok dropping 25% or close to it with my doses. If you can dose just once a day that would be good but if you choose to dose 2 times a day for now then that is fine also. Since you have been on subs 3 years your might be better of dropping to 1.75 or even 1 .6. as that would be a reduction which is moving forward. I really feel from reading hundreds of thread here over the last 16 months that after 3 years on subs a 25% drop might be jst a bit more then you should attempt right away. also the way day schedule after 3 years of sub use may be to short of a time to spend on 1 dose. I mentioned 1.6 because that would be a 20% drop and you could take a 8 mg strip and cut it into 5 equal pieces and have 5 1.6 pieces to work with. Just looking at different options for you to consider. Whats most important is to make sure you are stable at a dose befor considering dropping to your next dose. Please continue to post your progress and how you are feeling and we can take it from there. Talk with you later.

    Alex
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  9. #9
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    Wow..Thanks everyone for their reply and i will apologize now for all of my run on sentences. Yes i been taking 1mg in the am and 1 in the pm. before i dropped to this i was taking 2mg in the am and 2 mg in the pm. I do feel that the first couple days were ok and now im on day 3 and haven't taken my dose yet and although i feel blah i do believe i can go another couple hours..

    I want to also state that my bf of 10 is doing the same thing but for some odd reason he is able to go ALL day without taking anything. He only takes 1mg to sleep. He has been doing that for about 3 days. Maybe he is stronger than I. I dont know but I am proud of him and together at our own pace we will conquer this demon.

    I should also tell everyone that I have 2 young energetic boys who demand a lot of my attention.. That is what scares me the most. Not being able to care for them when i decide its time to jump. Oh and this addiction has been a secret from everyone we know not even 1 person knows what we have been dealing with. That disappoints me more than anything.

  10. #10
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    I replied with a nice long story and its is gone

  11. #11
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    You dropped by .50% and that's a big drop, from 4mg. to 2mg. It's no wonder you are feeling some symptoms. Subs have a half-life of around 72 hours, so it takes almost that long to go into w/d from the sub for some. From 4mg. a drop of .25% would have been 3mg. It is not a matter of who is stronger when you're coming off subs. Everyone is different. Keep on eye on your symptoms because you dropped from quite a dose. You need to be stable at a dose before you drop and never should drop more than .25%. Keep your taper steady. If you do that, you should be fine all the way down. I won't promise no symptoms, but your symptoms should be relatively mild. Stay strong.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  12. #12
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Are you taking your doses at the same time everyday? It's important to try to keep the level of sub in your system consistent. If you wait until you're feeling poorly you're going to feel unstable all the time. You need to take it on time, everyday, no matter what. Doing that helps minimize any w/d symptoms you may feel. If you're dosing twice a day try to take them 8-10 hours apart. Once a day is the best and subs are meant to be taken once a day, the twice a day thing is just for comfort. As addicts we are accustomed to reaching for a pill. But as you get down to smaller doses it will be much easier to dose once a day.

  13. #13
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    ok i will start dosing once a day and stay at 2mg. my fear though is jumping off completely. i have set a goal to be off them by spring break in April. i can handle the symptoms between doses without a problem its just the fear of not taking them at all.. i think i mentioned it before but not one person knows of my situation besides my bf and i hope to keep it that way. i am just so darn scared that i wont be able to get out of bed when i completely stop taking them..

  14. #14
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jensondy View Post
    ok i will start dosing once a day and stay at 2mg. my fear though is jumping off completely. i have set a goal to be off them by spring break in April. i can handle the symptoms between doses without a problem its just the fear of not taking them at all.. i think i mentioned it before but not one person knows of my situation besides my bf and i hope to keep it that way. i am just so darn scared that i wont be able to get out of bed when i completely stop taking them..
    jen that is what the taper plan is designed for and that is to make the jump bearable. You mention you want to be off subs by spring break and if you follow the taper plan rest of the way it should be close to that. I would not rush the taper though just to be done by a certain date though. Rushing your taper could end up completely backfiring on you. Just be patient keep posting and stick with the taper plan. talk with you later.

    Alex

  15. #15
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    Thank you!! Yes i will strictly follow the taper plan.. I have never wanted something more in my whole entire life.. I want my life back.. this couch has held me prisoner for far to long.. i want a job, i want a social life, i want to go on vacations, i want to go out and work in my big beautiful yard that is now overgrown because of lack of motivation.. We (my bf and i) WILL do this... im still at the 2 mg right now.. think i will stay there another day or so.. The problem im facing is that my bf thinks its ok to take percocet in order to skip days.. My question is.. And i know its not recommended. Could we taper down and when we jump take a percocet or vicodin to ease the symptoms for a few days.. Nothing like what we were taking but say 1 pill just to ease it. I know i will not continue taking them i do not have the funds for it.. Also i have no desire to take them long term.. That is what got me here in the first place and I DONT WANT TO GO BACK!!

  16. #16
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    a .25% drop would be 1.75 how do i cut that from a 8mg strip?

  17. #17
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jensondy View Post
    a .25% drop would be 1.75 how do i cut that from a 8mg strip?
    Jen actually a 25% drop from 2 mg would be 1.5. If you google suboxone cutting strips on the first page of results you should see a you tube video who the author is named Randy Cumbie. He is a member here whos member name is Harry Smooth and he and i tapered off subs late in 2012 and jumped off about a week apart from each other. The video shows how to cut strips all the way down to .06 i think. As for the question about instead of skipping days taking a perc or vicodin i would recommend myself not to try that. I know when i was tapering that thought went thru my mind a few times but i knew if i were to try that it would end up a complete disaster. I tapered down to around .18 and used the skip days and my symptoms were very minimal and i worked right thru it. I jumped off subs over 14 months ago and i know if i were to take any kind of painkiller and felt that good feeling from it maybe right then i might get by with it but my thinking would be out of whack right then and it would just be a matter of time before it turned into a disaster. Your fear right now about when it comes to jumping off is very normal and i think most of who have tapered off have had that fear at some point along there taper. That is what the taper plan is designed for in that we have as little of discomfort as possible when we jump. That is still a little ways from now when you are ready to jump so lets just continue the taper plan for now and we can deal with your fears as you get near the finish line ok. Keep on posting how you are getting along and i will talk to you later.

    Alex

  18. #18
    knowbetter is offline New Member
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    Jensondy,

    I am curious how you are coming along? I am in day 13 and so far so good. Still have zero energy and sweat like a.... but I am still Bup free. Where are you at in your taper? There are so very good folks on this site. I have googled it and read it over the past year without joining, but after reading all the good advise and see the LONG term support members who come here day after day to give encouragement, I know I had it in me to do it after reading their stories.

  19. #19
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    No, you should not take percs when you jump. All that will do is start you back on opiates. Subs are a great tool to help you get clean, but you aren't going to get away with no symptoms. If you follow the taper plan and jump at a low dose whatever you feel will be minimal. I am like Alex, I worked through my taper and when I jumped. It's not that bad.

    One thing everyone always forgets about is what they are going to do after the taper is complete. How are you going to stay clean? Getting clean is easy, staying clean is much harder. The people who are successful have a plan, you can't ever take another pill again.
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  20. #20
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    thank you guys.. yes i thought about taking the perc or vic to get thru after my jump but to be honest I know i dont need them. it was a thought that went thru my head at a point in time when i was scared out of my mind.. Sorry for not replying on here as often as i should.. I am doing very well, i dont know if i have done it correctly but i am down to a tad bit over 1mg.. I have had a positive mindset threw all of my drops and they have gone smoother than i expected.. no symptoms whatsoever.. I really believe its a case of mind over matter.. I am to the point where im almost excited to jump off completely and feel that little discomfort. I know i have read before where people say they feel this way.. when you're ready you're ready. right.... I can see the light.. and i will not give up!!! And as for my plan after i jump.. well my plan is to be a mom again.. Not a bump on a log!! Im going to continue my taper and probably drop to 1 mg tomorrow.. As long as i keep my positive mind and try and keep myself motivated I know i will be fine.. My only question is how in the heck can my bf who has used the same as i have the last 3 years is having such minimal symptoms.. his only problem is sleep.. I dont understand it.. Why cant I be like that!!

  21. #21
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Hello jensondy . I noticed you reached out on my thread and apologize for not responding . I see you started your own and are receiving some great advice . Wanted to drop in and give you my best wishes beating this . I also wound up on subs for a tad over 3 years and will say this is doable . Stay strong and try to find a positive mindset about finishing up as it greatly helped me .

    Ken

  22. #22
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Jensondy

    Ken is asking you about a plan because you need a solid foundation to stay clean. The easy part is getting clean, staying clean is the hard part. I'm not saying you can't be successful without meetings, but the deck is stacked in your favor if you do meetings.

    Check out Ruth's thread on Need to Talk board, "Ask Ruth" she is a great resource.

    You are doing great!
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  23. #23
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    Hello.. i know i haven't posted on here in awhile but im back and i hope someone will be here.. i have followed the taper plan and have tapered down to .5 i know my jump is nearing and anxiety is setting in.. i been completely symptom free through each drop!! I do credit my high spirits and my positive mind!!! They have worked wonders! Oh and my music that has helped as well.. my bf got picked up last friday and had to spend the weekend in jail so he hasnt taken any sub since last thurs!!!!! He seems to be ok. A little restless and not sleeping great but other than that hes fine. That deff. gives me some inspiration!! Im going to drop to .25 in the next cpl days. Just dont feel ready yet. I am nervous about this drop. I dont know why tho because every other drop has been great. I will keep posting now that my jump is nearing for everyones support!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!

  24. #24
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    You should drop to .375 mg first. Dropping from .5 mg to .25 mg is a 50% drop. The taper plan recommends only reducing by 25% at each drop. You will likely experience more discomfort than necessary if you make such a big reduction.

    Good to see you're down to .5 mg! The end is in sight. Good for you.
    Kat
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  25. #25
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    Ok. U are right that would be a 50% drop. Thats what i have been doing. Just cutting whatever i was taking in half at each drop. I watched the video on how to cut the strips but i guess i am confused at such small doses. Ill watch it again and figure it out!! Thanks!!

  26. #26
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    You can use a toothpick with the little pieces to place it under your tongue. I'd stick with .25% drop as you've had no symptoms and may be able to finish this with little or no discomfort. Follow what Kat says. Keep going! You've got this.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  27. #27
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    jen you said you have been symptom free on all your drops so far and that is great to read that. It worked that way for me also down to .50. Then when i dropped from .50 to .375 guess what. It went fine also just like all my other drops. It went smooth rest of the way also and went smooth when i finally decided that .18 was low enough then did the skip days at the end and finally jumped. I honestly believe that the same will happen with you. If problems were going to occur they probably would have already started once you got under 1 mg. Great job on your taper jen and my best wishes to you.

    Alex

  28. #28
    jensondy is offline New Member
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    Thank you!!! Gosh im hoping it is that way for me!! I watched the vid on how to cut the strips and he cuts it from .5 to .25.. there was no .325. Today is the day i have decided to drop but i dont know how to cut it. Thank you all for your kind words and inspiring me.. i know reading these threads has made me realize its doable and i can do it!!!

    Jen

  29. #29
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I don't have the strips, I have the pills, so I can't really advise you on how to cut them. .375 mg is basically halfway between .5 mg and .25 mg.

    I'm sure someone will hop on to let you know how to cut to .375 mg.

    Kat

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