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Looking for advice.
  1. #1
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Default Looking for advice.

    Looking for advice
    I have been taking 16mg Suboxone daily for three years. I was using 6-8 10 mg oxycodone previously. The doc who inducted me started me at 16. Way too much. Made me sick. In hindsight I probably didn't have a bad enough habit to be put on sub. I ran out of strips a week ago. My next appointment is on Thursday this week. I started taking 10 mg hydros to ease the withdrawals. About six per day. They don't get me high but they do stave off withdrawal. I REALLY WANT OFF THE SUB. I am going to get the script Thursday but I don't know how little to take to keep it to a minimum and begin a taper off of it. Can anyone give some advice? Right now I an really confused. I just want off of the Sub so I can get my life back.

  2. #2
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    I've done plenty of reading here and I think my best option is to use Robert's taper schedule. Since I was on 16mgs a week ago I'm going to try and start out with as little as possible. I can't miss any work so I have to go back on it. I hate the Sub but it's what I have to do. With foreclosure a distinct possibility I don't need any more stress right now.

  3. #3
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Welcome to the forums nosub and I see where your getting script tomorrow. 16 mg is way to much but most Drs that prescribe subs are clueless about it. I see you have seen Roberts taper plan and it worked great for me. If 60 mg of hydro is doing the job of keeping WD away then I think maybe 2 mg of subs might be all you need to start out at. If 2mg after 1 hr doesn't work then take .50 and just keep doing that till you feel ok. My best wishes to you and I will talk to you later

    Alex

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Also I would not tell the Dr you are going to do a taper and get as much as you can. Most Drs will get mad if you tell them you are going to do a taper as it means less money to them. I was prescribed 16 mg myself and I never let them know I was tapering.

    Alex

  5. #5
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your reply Alexnt. I ended up getting lucky and got in to the Doc on Wednesday, a day early. I couldn't take it any more. I didn't want to keep using the Hydros anymore. As you know, it's a vicious cycle. I took the last Hyyro at 6AM Wednesday. I got home from the pharmacy about 4:30 in the afternoon. My back was killing me. I had some sneezing, watery eyes, but definitely low COWS score of 5. I was apprehensive to start the Sub with such a low score but I took 2 mg of a strip and waited an hour with only minimal relief. Thankfully no precipitated wd's. I was a little afraid of that. I took another 2 mg and felt very good. That's where I'm at this morning. I FINALLY slept all night. I'm going to read the taper schedule again. I don't know whether to take 2 this morning and 2 this afternoon? It's a little confusing to me. Thanks again.

  6. #6
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    I wanted to add something here. You say most Docs are clueless about Sub. My Doc told me yesterday that there is NO physical dependence to Suboxone. Ironic. My body tells me that there is.
    I told my Doc that some reduce down to .125 mg and still have wd's. He looked at me strangely. Then proceeded to tell me that wd's are not possible with sub. LOL. It's not funny, but it goes to show how these guys are motivated by cash. Office visits are just 5 minutes. It takes longer to pay the copayment than the "visit" lasts. I'll keep seeing him to get my script and not tell him about my taper.

    My previous Doc started me at 16 three years ago. He told me he was moving to another state and I would have to find another Doc. That was over six months ago. Last month his office called me to reschedule my appointment? Sorry, wrong number. I think he lied because he didn't want to accept insurance anymore. Anyway, some of these Docs, if not most just love the extra income and most only take CASH. I have learned more from this forum than any of these clueless "Docs".

    Sorry for the rant. These are peoples lives at stake.

  7. #7
    whatsinaname is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Nosubs,

    Welcome to the forum. You can definitely split the doses in two and take them about 8 hours apart. You can also take 4mg in the morning and then dont have to take it again until the next day. Which ever works better for you. Most important is that you are stable at that dose. Dont take any extra slivers throughout the day. I always like once a day dosing better because then you dont have to worry about it and can just go on about your buisiness like a "normal" person.

    In any case congrats on your decision to get clean and best of luck to you!!!
    alexnt likes this.

  8. #8
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Thank you for the reply. I have always dosed at least twice a day but I think that was the addict in me wanting to take something. I'm really thinking that 4 mg is too much for me. I almost felt a buzz if you know what I mean. I seemed to accomplish much today. That could be because I've been mostly sick and sleepless for the last week or so. I slept all night last night, awakening only twice for maybe a minute and then right back to sleep. I'm wondering if I can get through the day with just 2 mg? I think the hardest thing right now is finding out how much makes me stable.

  9. #9
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosubforme View Post
    Thank you for the reply. I have always dosed at least twice a day but I think that was the addict in me wanting to take something. I'm really thinking that 4 mg is too much for me. I almost felt a buzz if you know what I mean. I seemed to accomplish much today. That could be because I've been mostly sick and sleepless for the last week or so. I slept all night last night, awakening only twice for maybe a minute and then right back to sleep. I'm wondering if I can get through the day with just 2 mg? I think the hardest thing right now is finding out how much makes me stable.
    Nosub glad to see you inducted at 4 mg as that isn't a big dose. You are wondering if you can get by on 2 mg and the only way to find out is take 2 mg in the am and see if that can get you thru the day. You could try it and if you don't feel well later in the day do 1 mg and see if that works. If not just do another 1 mg. The most important thing is to find a dose that you are stable on and stay there a few days then start the taper plan. Best wishes and I will talk to you later.

    Alex

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    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    Nosub glad to see you inducted at 4 mg as that isn't a big dose. You are wondering if you can get by on 2 mg and the only way to find out is take 2 mg in the am and see if that can get you thru the day. You could try it and if you don't feel well later in the day do 1 mg and see if that works. If not just do another 1 mg. The most important thing is to find a dose that you are stable on and stay there a few days then start the taper plan. Best wishes and I will talk to you later.
    Alex
    Thanks Alex. I did 4mg this morning at about 8 AM and felt good until about an hour ago. I have some yawning, slightly runny nose and some moderate belly cramps. I'm going to try to get some sleep now. If I can't sleep I might try another 1mg to see if it helps. I'm used to dosing at least twice a day. Tomorrow I'll try morning and late afternoon 2 mgs each time.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-31-2013 at 10:01 PM.

  11. #11
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosubforme View Post
    Thanks Alex. I did 4mg this morning at about 8 AM and felt good until about an hour ago. I have some yawning, slightly runny nose and some moderate belly cramps. I'm going to try to get some sleep now. If I can't sleep I might try another 1mg to see if it helps. I'm used to dosing at least twice a day. Tomorrow I'll try morning and late afternoon 2 mgs each time.
    ok it appears that maybe 4 mg is a place to try to get stable at. hope you don't have to take another mg tonight but if you do its ok. Lets just get you stable at either 4 or 5 mg and we can take it from there. It takes a little time for the body to adjust to subs so sometimes the first few days can be a little hard but it wont take long to feel normal. Post back on what you ended up taking and we will take it from there. Talk with you again and hope you sleep well tonight.

    Alex

  12. #12
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    I ended up not taking another mg. slept pretty good. Woke up once for a BM. I was looking forward to that as constipation is a big problem for me while on Sub. I dosed 4 mg this morning and still feel good now. Hope it holds me through the day. Gotta run because I'm at work. May talk tonight.

  13. #13
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosubforme View Post
    I ended up not taking another mg. slept pretty good. Woke up once for a BM. I was looking forward to that as constipation is a big problem for me while on Sub. I dosed 4 mg this morning and still feel good now. Hope it holds me through the day. Gotta run because I'm at work. May talk tonight.
    Nosub if you ended up not taking that extra dose last night then it looks as if 4 mg is what your starting point is. Today makes day 3 at 4 mg so I would stay there for another 2 or 3 days after today and if you feel ok then begin the taper plan. As far as the constipation that is one of the side effects of subs during the beginning of sub use but clears up after a few days. I know I was constipated for about the first 5 or 6 days on subs but then it cleared right up. Are you taking any supplements while your tapering? This is what I used during my taper and several others have also. A complete multi vitamin daily, a balanced b 100 complex daily extra potassium daily and for fatigue L-Tyrosine 500 mg with B6 added to it. I would take the L-Tyrosine on an empty stomach in the morning. Some use up to 2000 mg a day of it but I usually only took 1 or 2 a day myself. Some complain it makes them to jittery so you need to see how it works for you. Any excersize you can get while tapering will help also. It speeds up the endorphins being replaced. Even just a 12 minute walk is good for you. Also keep well hydrated while you taper. Honestly 4 mg is not a bad place to get inducted at as I had to go thru a clinic and on days 2 and 3 had to take 16 mg a day in front of them. I didn't know about the taper plan on here and was confused at first and spent my first 4 weeks at above 8 mg a day. It was 5 weeks befor I was down to 6 mg a day and I was still able to only spend 4 months on subs using mostly a 6 day schedule. So you should be able to spend a lot less time on subs then I did and my sub taper went very smoothly for me. Never noticed any of my drops and when I jumped I had very minimal symptoms. Keep on posting your progress and I will talk to you later

    Alex

  14. #14
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    I felt really, really tired at about two o'clock after lunch. I kind of screwed up and took 2 mg after lunch. I felt really bad about taking it but I felt like I needed it. That's the addict in me. Here's where I'm at right now. 2 mgs in the morning doesn't seem like enough for me. But when I took four it didn't last long enough. Maybe it's psychological. I was on 16 mgs before I ran out last week. I don't want to increase the dose but I don't want to feel like >>>> either. Subconsciously I think I am missing out on the extra mgs that I was using previously. I know it's gonna take a few days to stabilize, but right now I feel like I'm all over the place.

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    melindau is offline Member
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    been there done that!!!I understand where your at but you got to find some other way out of this HE!! that your in!!!Take it ten minutes at a time if you have to and post a lot it will help,others have been thru what you are going thru...Let us help you!!!

  16. #16
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosubforme View Post
    I felt really, really tired at about two o'clock after lunch. I kind of screwed up and took 2 mg after lunch. I felt really bad about taking it but I felt like I needed it. That's the addict in me. Here's where I'm at right now. 2 mgs in the morning doesn't seem like enough for me. But when I took four it didn't last long enough. Maybe it's psychological. I was on 16 mgs before I ran out last week. I don't want to increase the dose but I don't want to feel like >>>> either. Subconsciously I think I am missing out on the extra mgs that I was using previously. I know it's gonna take a few days to stabilize, but right now I feel like I'm all over the place.
    Ok so you ended up taking another 2 mg so perhaps 4 mg wasn't enough to get stable at. You cant be jumping back and forth and do need to pick a dose and get stable there. Since you ended up at 6 mg today then I guess I would just use 6 mg as a starting dose to get stable. Was going to suggest maybe you try 5 mg and get stable there but I would just stick with 6 mg and get stable there now to avoid any further being all over the place with your dosing. You can either split the dose or do it all at once in the am. It could have well just been psychological like you said but if I were you to avoid any jumping around in the future I think I would just get stable at 6 mg now and then start to taper plan. Maybe you don't need 6 mg but hell I didn't need 16mg or 12 mg either but that's where I was the first 2 1/2 weeks of my sub use. Even 6 mg isn't all that bad of a starting point especially considering the normal high dose most Drs start patients out at. Talk with you later and best wishes to getting stable at 6 mg and taking it from there.

    Alex

  17. #17
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    Ok so you ended up taking another 2 mg so perhaps 4 mg wasn't enough to get stable at. You cant be jumping back and forth and do need to pick a dose and get stable there. Since you ended up at 6 mg today then I guess I would just use 6 mg as a starting dose to get stable. Was going to suggest maybe you try 5 mg and get stable there but I would just stick with 6 mg and get stable there now to avoid any further being all over the place with your dosing. You can either split the dose or do it all at once in the am. It could have well just been psychological like you said but if I were you to avoid any jumping around in the future I think I would just get stable at 6 mg now and then start to taper plan. Maybe you don't need 6 mg but hell I didn't need 16mg or 12 mg either but that's where I was the first 2 1/2 weeks of my sub use. Even 6 mg isn't all that bad of a starting point especially considering the normal high dose most Drs start patients out at. Talk with you later and best wishes to getting stable at 6 mg and taking it from there.

    Alex
    Thanks for all of the advice. I know this is going to be a difficult process. I felt like I was abusing Sub to get a buzz and sometimes I would dose up to 32 mgs in a day. This is why I ran out of meds. I don't want to get into that trap again. I just have to keep in mind that someday I will have a completely clear head and get back to making the right decisions on some things. I think my judgement is definitely clouded while on Sub.
    I feel pretty good this morning with just a hint of a headache. Slept OK except I woke up worrying about some financial things but I got back to sleep fairly easily. My last dose was 16 hours ago. I need to get stable ASAP. This thing won't ever begin to end until I do that. I'm going to dose 3 mg this AM and 2 mg in the afternoon. How many hours apart can I spread the doses? It seems like the later I take the second dose, the better I sleep.
    I just want to thank all for the support, especially Alex. You people go out of your way to help others in need of advice and support. You are to be commended. Thanks again.

  18. #18
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there. I'm currently tapering sub as well. (Well, actually I just had back surgery but will resume my sub taper in about a week.) Alex and many others have been invaluable to me during this process. Listen to what they say. Since you took 6 mg yesterday, Alex advised that you stay at that dose until stable. Your post said you were gonna take 3 mg this morning and 2 mg later. That's only 5 mg total.

    So, for today and until stable, stay at 6 mg. Take 3 mg morning and 3 mg evening. Your doses need to be at least 8 hours apart and you need to be dosing at the same time every day.

    My night dose helps me sleep too, so I dose around 9 am and then again around 8 pm. But that's just me. Do what's comfortable for you and keep it consistent.

    Hope this helped. The taper plan is actually very easy if you follow it correctly and listen to the members who are here to help you.

    I wish you all the best!
    Katherine
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-02-2013 at 11:19 AM.

  19. #19
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    Hi there. I'm currently tapering sub as well. (Well, actually I just had back surgery but will resume my sub taper in about a week.) Alex and many others have been invaluable to me during this process. Listen to what they say. Since you took 6 mg yesterday, Alex advised that you stay at that dose until stable. Your post said you were gonna take 3 mg this morning and 2 mg later. That's only 5 mg total.

    So, for today and until stable, stay at 6 mg. Take 3 mg morning and 3 mg evening. Your doses need to be at least 8 hours apart and you need to be dosing at the same time every day.

    My night dose helps me sleep too, so I dose around 9 am and then again around 8 pm. But that's just me. Do what's comfortable for you and keep it consistent.

    Hope this helped. The taper plan is actually very easy if you follow it correctly and listen to the members who are here to help you.

    I wish you all the best!
    Katherine
    I know Alex said to stick with six, but you must remember that I am coming off of a period of three years taking at least 16 mg per day sometimes more. I'm trying to keep the daily dose total as low as possible. I need to figure out what dosage is the best for me and at what times of day work the best for me. If I find out that five was enough I don't want to be using six just because I did one day. Once I get that part figured out I will move on from there. Then I can establish the consistency I so direly need. Everyone is different and our bodies don't react the same as someone else's. It may take me a little while longer to stabilize but once there I can follow the taper regimen and finally be Sub and opiate free.
    I appreciate your help and the help of all on the forum. I know I can do it with your help. Thank's again !!
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  20. #20
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Nosub I actually overlooked the fact that you were taking 16 mg a day for 3 years. Didn't realize you had been on that high of a dose for 3 years. I thought you had only been taking 16 mg a day for a short period of time so you are right it may take you a little time to figure out what dose you do need to actually get stable at befor you can begin to taper. Best wishes to you on figuring out what dose you need to get good and stable at and I will talk with you later.

    Alex

  21. #21
    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Alex,
    I appreciate your reply. Yes I was on 16 mg per day for over three years. I ran out of Sub for about a week. I'm starting to get a feel for where I need to be. If I dose too early in the afternoon I'm exhausted before bedtime which is usually around 10. Of course, without any Sub at all I'd be tired at that time. I'm not young anymore at 54. I will get stabilized this week. So far it's looking like 6 mg is where I'll be. Yesterday I took 3 mg at 6:30 AM and 3 mg at 3 PM. I felt pretty good all day and night. I slept like a baby without one waking interruption. I have the slightest headache this morning. Don't know if it's because my last dose was 16 hours ago (back to standard time) or not. Idk where I'd be without this forum. I've learned so much and still learning everyday. Thanks again.

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    Nosubforme is offline New Member
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    Ok so today I dosed once in the morning at 3 mg and later in the afternoon at 3 mg. I'm feeling pretty good, sleeping fairly well, normal appetite. I can only assume that this makes me stable. What's the next step? Stay at 6 mg for four days and then if all is well, drop 25% ? Thanks for the help.

  23. #23
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Nosub sounds like you are doing well at 6 mg. Good to read that you are feeling pretty good with a normal appetite and that your sleeping fairly well. I would not be in a rush to drop to 4.5 which will be a 25 % drop for you. While you don't want to get complacent at 6 mg since this is your inducting dose I think that 6 or 7 days is a good number when it comes to inducting. The induction is about the most important part of doing a sub taper as to get started in the right direction. I know you have read Roberts taper plan and are familiar with it by now. Just a reminder that the 4 day schedule is not written in stone and that the longer one has been on subs sometimes means that the taper is going to take a bit longer then opposed to someone who inducts at a small dose and is using the taper plan short term. You might want to check out the thread called Ken2727's own thread as he is now currently using the taper plan here and is now down to I think .375 a day after being on subs for over 2 1/2 years and like yourself spent a long period at 16 mg a day. Best wishes to you and keep posting your progress and I will talk to you later.

    Alex

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