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On my sub taper and could use advice.
  1. #31
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    I'm glad you are looking for meetings, you don't have to go to NA, AA would serve the same purpose. Don't give up on meetings, it sounds like you won't.

    The hardest part is staying clean now, it's hard...really hard. But you have to fight everyday until staying clean is your new habit, not using. Think about it like this, put as much effort as you did into getting drugs and getting high into staying clean. You can't ever get complacent but as you out clean days behind you it does get easier to dismiss those thoughts of using. Right now you're remembering the fun parts of drugs. You have to think about the bad. How exhausting it is to be a slave to a pill, how it takes your life over and you can't ever plan anything. You can't go on vacation, you can't just go out on the spur of the moment, you have no emotions...you get the idea. Focus on that, because the fun high lasts a few hours and then what? Would it be worth it?

    You have done really well, keep plugging along. You would be really mad at yourself if all this work was for nothing.

    The feelings you are having are likely due to feeling emotions for the first time in a really long time. Drugs numb you, once you stop covering up your emotions it can be overwhelming. It's ok to be scared, it's pretty common. I would spend hours thinking about what would happen if I ever needed surgery. I would get so upset I would almost cry. Clearly that's an overreaction, I still don't want to ever need pain meds, but if I do I know how I will handle it.

    Take it day by day, or if you have to hour by hour. Focus on the positives of being clean and how you have nothing holding you back from accomplishing anything you want.

    Keep posting here, hopefully Ruth will see your last message and pop in and give you some guidance.

    Take care Harry

  2. #32
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thank you Steph, this is exactly what I needed to hear.

  3. #33
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    I think that's one of the biggest hurdles, getting to the point where you want to be clean more than anything. If you want it more than anything you will succeed. As you said, it has to be your priority, it can't be an after thought.

    It's hard and you will have bad days or days that challenge you. You need to be prepared for those days, what will you do when you have a very stressful day? Have a plan and stick to it because it's easy to slip when you are weak. When I think of pills I immediately think about what a detox feels like and how I just can't go through that again.

    Alex gave you a great idea, think about not using today. Get up each morning and say ok, I'm not using today - no matter what. Before you know it you have strung 24 days together.

    Keep going to those meetings and keep posting here! You both are doing great. And yes, it's nice to have your thread as a reminder of how far you have come. I go back and read mine sometimes.
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  4. #34
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    What the...a whole bunch of posts on my thread are missing??? The last 5 or so I think

    Is this some sort of glitch you guys have experienced before? Or did the mods delete them? Did I post something I shouldn't have?

    I'm confused......

  5. #35
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    What the...a whole bunch of posts on my thread are missing??? The last 5 or so I think

    Is this some sort of glitch you guys have experienced before? Or did the mods delete them? Did I post something I shouldn't have?

    I'm confused......
    Harry I posted to you earlier about 2 or 3 hours ago and its not here now. Don't know whats going on but this stuff happens every once in awhile. I don't know whats going on but hope it was just some sort of glitch.

    Alex

  6. #36
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    I notice the post you made about the person texting you are gone Harry. I did not see anything wrong about what you had posted or what I posted back to you either. Anyway nice job on what you did recently and hope this doesn't get removed

    Alex

  7. #37
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    I bleed into these posts and to see them removed without an indication as to why stings a bit. I just don't see how I violated any rules. Anyone know where I can find the forum rules so this doesn't happen again?

    Anywho I am down to .6 and so far so good. Mornings get a little rough and it takes me a while to get going but it's nothing I cannot handle. I haven't had any cravings for the last few days. It's pretty incredible and strange at the same time. I don't fantasize about getting high like I used to and feel much better about myself overall. It's kind of scary how well my taper is going now. When I first started the taper it was tough, real tough, but is kept at it and after about 10 days or so I started feeling better each day. I keep expecting something terrible to happen soon...like this is too easy. I mean sure my energy is low and I still experience mood swings but it pales in comparison to the pain and depression I felt while using. I don't want to get cocky though.

    Tomorrow or the day after I will drop to .5. Life is a strange thing huh? Before I started this taper I thought there was no way I would be able to finish it. But now that I'm actually doing it, it's become normal. I actually like being sober. I like being clear headed. I like having money in the bank. I like myself.

  8. #38
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you for stopping in my thread and what you said Harry !

    Know I am rooting for you also and have been since your first post . You are doing well . Isn't having feelings again good ? Keep up the good work and be well .

    Peace

  9. #39
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    I bleed into these posts and to see them removed without an indication as to why stings a bit. I just don't see how I violated any rules. Anyone know where I can find the forum rules so this doesn't happen again?

    Anywho I am down to .6 and so far so good. Mornings get a little rough and it takes me a while to get going but it's nothing I cannot handle. I haven't had any cravings for the last few days. It's pretty incredible and strange at the same time. I don't fantasize about getting high like I used to and feel much better about myself overall. It's kind of scary how well my taper is going now. When I first started the taper it was tough, real tough, but is kept at it and after about 10 days or so I started feeling better each day. I keep expecting something terrible to happen soon...like this is too easy. I mean sure my energy is low and I still experience mood swings but it pales in comparison to the pain and depression I felt while using. I don't want to get cocky though.

    Tomorrow or the day after I will drop to .5. Life is a strange thing huh? Before I started this taper I thought there was no way I would be able to finish it. But now that I'm actually doing it, it's become normal. I actually like being sober. I like being clear headed. I like having money in the bank. I like myself.
    Good to see the taper is going well Harry. I found out I liked myself better once I got clean and the fog lifted. The extra money is rather nice to lol. Keep up the good job .

    Alex

  10. #40
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi everyone

    Today I am on my 3rd day of .5 mg subs. It is also exactly 30 days since I used Roxie's!!! It really is strange, it feels like I have been on subs forever now but if I think about, it's only been 30 days since I got high.

    Overall I feel pretty ok. The crazy insane up and down swings are just a memory now, not a distant memory but just a memory - I know I will have to remind myself of them when cravings hit. My energy level sucks, I get very exhausted without even doing strenuous activity. A walk up and down the stairs and I need a breather but I'm not complaining. Mornings are rough but once I get my day going I feel decent. One weird thing I noticed though is that my patience is shorter these days, almost like I'm cranky. When I was using I was extremely laid back and just go with the flow type but I find myself impatient and pretty combative with others. I'm much more vocal about my opinion. Can't tell if it's a good thing or bad thing yet.

    I really can't believe I'm doing what I'm doing. 30 days isn't much but I consider it huge progress. Sure I wish I would have done this sooner but maybe I wouldn't have been able to without going through what I went through. I don't think I would have made it this far without the help of some of you guys - you guys know who you are.

    I think I'm going to taper down to .375 then .25 then start skipping days. I get butterflies in my stomache just thinking about that prospect. A combination of excitement and fear - I'm not sure which outweighs which right now but I'm marching forward.

    Spot

  11. #41
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I can relate 100%. I am such a cranky beast lately. In fact, I've felt that way for a long time, even when abusing pills. The only exception was when I was high as a kite, then I was happy go lucky. Now we have to go through this whirlwind of emotions. It's really hard sometimes.

    I have moments of hope where I know it's gonna be ok, but then there are moments when I feel like I'll never be normal again. Just gotta be patient and stay the course to reap the benefits.

    You are doing so well! You're so close to the end and should be very proud. I'm rooting for you!

    Hope you have a nice Sunday.
    Katherine

  12. #42
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    Harry

    Check out Lincoln's thread, Ruth posted about what opiates do to your brain and emotions. I think the info might be helpful for you. What you are feeling is likely the result of all the opiates blocking your normal emotions for so long. It does get better with time. You haven't really felt or dealt with emotions while you were using, now you have to adjust to what life is like without them.

    How are you doing today? I hope you have a good weekend.
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  13. #43
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thank you everyone for the encouragement. Thanks Steph I read what Ruth posted and I'm glad I did.

    I am down to .375 and I'm getting really anxious to jump off soon. Like Ruth said even while using tiny doses of subs my brain won't be able to heal fully and I'm so eager to start the real healing process. My energy is sooooooooo low these days.

    Steph, Alex or anyone else who has done this taper and has clean time, do you start feeling better once you jump off? I'm starting to freak myself out by thinking in going to feel like this forever now. Is this .375 even doing anything?

    Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

  14. #44
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Yes Harry .375 is doing something even though im sure your thinking how can that small of a dose even matter. You mention feeling a combination of fear and excitement both and I remember having those same feelings. You posted 30 days isn't much but Harry I have to disagree with you there buddy. Even though you are using suboxone as a tool to get clean and its an opiate its different then using roxi 30s. You said in your first post that you had been using roxis for 3 years so going 30 days without to me is huge on your part Harry. I don't know if your using any supplements while your tapering Harry but theres a couple things that might help you out with the low energy. While I was tapering I did the following a multivitamin multimineral supplement a balanced b-100 complex potassium and this is the one thing that lots of people use for energy, L-Tyrosine 500mg with vitamin b6 in it. The L-tyrosine has to have b6 with it to work and its best to take it on an empty stomach. Some people say it makes them jittery but it depends on the person. Some people take 2000 mg a day of it. I usually took either 500mg or 1000 mg a day. Myself I had lack of motivation to get going and also some lack of energy also but im 58 so that could have some part of that also. Your body is still adjusting Harry to long term opiate use so don't worry your not going to feel like this forever. Will talk with you later.

    Alex
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  15. #45
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    I'm 44 & 11 months (LOL) and I have days where I'm really tired and I have no motivation, but for the most part I feel normal. I actually think having an off day is normal. No one feels good 100% of the time! maybe if you're 20. In any case it does get better, it just takes time. You have to be patient and kind to yourself, drugs do a lot of damage and it takes time to heal. You didn't get to this place overnight, you won't heal overnight either.

    I didn't use any supplements or vitamins but that's because I have a thyroid condition and my endo doc has always advisd me to steer clear of supplements unless I run it by him.

    We all overthink the jump, it's because we have all been through so many c/t that it's scary to anticipate that kind of discomfort. But it really shouldn't be that bad. I was very tired and had very little motivation the first week. I was glad I was going to work, it distracted me and took my mind off the jump. I think if you stay busy it's better, otherwise you can talk yourself into anything. If you are busy the time flies by and you don't think about what you "should" be feeling or what you "probably" will feel. And I didn't miss a single day of work, I had some trouble getting going, showering was a little daunting. But I felt 100% after I got moving.

    Try not to overthink, just trust the process. You're doing great.

  16. #46
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry hope all is well with you and I really like what Steph said to you and that is try not to over think and trust the process. Also she mentions about if you can stay busy when jumping the better off you may be. I did not have to miss any work at all when I started the skip days and when I jumped. And I was 57 when I tapered and jumped Harry as opposed to a young pup like Steph lol. Your doing well Harry and I will talk to you later.

    Alex
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  17. #47
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    Oof that should say "100% better after I got moving". Lol. Regardless I think moving around is good, if you sit around feeling sorry for yourself you are going to feel bad. Just tell yourself whatever hurdles you encounter will be worth the prize. You can't put a price on sobriety and all of this is temporary. Next year when you mark your one year anniversary it will all seem like a distant memory and you will ask yourself what you were so scared of.

  18. #48
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thanks for the advise guys I'm sure you guys are most certainly right.

    Today was my first day of .25. Tomorrow will be my first skip day! My plan is to take my last dose Sunday then I'm off! The fatigue is really kicking my butt throughout the day. I have small bursts of energy then the rest is just blaaaahhhhh. But in all honesty I'm ok with it because the positives waaaaaay outweigh the negatives.

    Alex I bought all the vitamins you mentioned so I am really hoping it will help. I am NOT going to stop my life in any way when I jump off, my plan is to march forward with my head up high. No calling out of work no canceling anything, life will go on. I have a script of klonopin that I never refilled from about 6 months ago and I'm tempted to use them to aid me for the next week. My sleeping is in short, terrible. My sleeping patterns have been erratic for the last 10 years or so and it got infinitely worse in the last few. I'm tempted to use the klonopin just as a sleep aid to get me through the initial week after my jump. I feel very confident in myself and my ability to control my consumption. What do you guys think about this? I know Ruth would probably tear me a new one with logic if she heard this and I'm probably suffering from the "but I'm different" syndrome but benzos were never my cup of tea...in fact nothing was...only opiates.

    Steph, Alex, I am taking your advise on not to overthink the jump to heart. I am breaking into new territory and it's exhilarating and frightening but I will not obsess about it.

    Talk to you all soon!

  19. #49
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Honestly I think you nailed it when you said Ruth wouldn't agree. I don't think using another drug to get you through w/d is a good idea. You are trading one drug for another, even if you think you could control it. Did you ever take it by itself? You said they were never your cup of tea but you've never been in this situation before.

    I know it's tempting but I vote no. Stick with melatonin and Sleepy Time tea and hot baths. You need to create a bed time ritual. Stay away from iPads, Kindles, etc. try reading a real book before bed. Set yourself up to be relaxed when you turn the light off. If you work yourself up into thinking you won't sleep, you probably won't.

    Now, I won't lie. My sleep was choppy but I was able of get blocks of 4 hours. It comes back over time, I have never slept well either.

    If you decide to fill the Klonopin no one will judge you, it's up to you. I just worry about benzo's, addicts are addicts for a reason. If you do fill them be careful.

  20. #50
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry if today was your first day at .25 why are you going to the skip day already? Are you out of subs now? I would dose at .25 for 4 days then start the skip days. As for the klonopin if you fill that script for it Harry please be very careful with benzo use. If you can only use them for a very short period of time then I would say no harm but speaking to you addict to addict I hate to see you fill the script. I know lack of sleep can be very frustrating as ive had insomnia ever since I can remember. I take a sleep aid almost every night but its not in the benzo family and is non narcotic. Another thing about taking klonopin is that if you have low energy now it might make your energy even worse. Anyway my best wishes on whatever you decide and I will talk to you later

    Alex

  21. #51
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    You guys are probably right. The funny thing is, is that ever since I started to begin this taper I was looking forward to using my klonopin script at the end.

    Alex I thought once I drop to my final dose I start skipping days? Do I start skipping AFTER 4 days?

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    Thanks for the advise guys I'm sure you guys are most certainly right.

    Today was my first day of .25. Tomorrow will be my first skip day! My plan is to take my last dose Sunday then I'm off! The fatigue is really kicking my butt throughout the day. I have small bursts of energy then the rest is just blaaaahhhhh. But in all honesty I'm ok with it because the positives waaaaaay outweigh the negatives.

    Alex I bought all the vitamins you mentioned so I am really hoping it will help. I am NOT going to stop my life in any way when I jump off, my plan is to march forward with my head up high. No calling out of work no canceling anything, life will go on. I have a script of klonopin that I never refilled from about 6 months ago and I'm tempted to use them to aid me for the next week. My sleeping is in short, terrible. My sleeping patterns have been erratic for the last 10 years or so and it got infinitely worse in the last few. I'm tempted to use the klonopin just as a sleep aid to get me through the initial week after my jump. I feel very confident in myself and my ability to control my consumption. What do you guys think about this? I know Ruth would probably tear me a new one with logic if she heard this and I'm probably suffering from the "but I'm different" syndrome but benzos were never my cup of tea...in fact nothing was...only opiates.

    Steph, Alex, I am taking your advise on not to overthink the jump to heart. I am breaking into new territory and it's exhilarating and frightening but I will not obsess about it.

    Talk to you all soon!
    On the sleep deal, I was advised to take vitamins in the morning and melatonin before bed. It's been working for me but, every case is different.

    I'm pulling for you and know by your attitude and determination you'll make it through. You are leading the way for some of us newbies.

  23. #53
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Yes, only skip after 4 days or once stable at .25 mg. Some people even go lower - to .125 mg - but I don't know if that's an option for you.

    Glad to see you're doing so well!
    Kat

  24. #54
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    Lincoln

    Don't start skipping until you are stable at .25. Stay at .25 for at least 4 days, if you need a few extra days at the end, take them.

    Maybe wait to fill the scrip. See how it goes after you jump, if you have to go get the scrip you will be more likely to think about whether you really need it or not. If you have the bottle it's too easy to grab one. I worry about the fact you were looking forward to using them after your jump.

    Try setting up a bedtime ritual that encourages sleep and relaxes you. It sounds stupid but it helps to slow your mind down and you will be more likely to get some sleep.

  25. #55
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Whoops I got mixed up but now that you guys informed me I will stay on .25 for another two days then skip. I am confident in myself to skip now but as the saying here goes "do it right, do it once". Thanks for the heads up Alex.

    I take vitamins and sleep medication every.single.night Lincoln and my body is so used to it. My bed isn't just a place where I sleep- I browse my ipad watch movies read books etc, so Steph I will take your advise and start a sleeping ritual. If I can break my addiction then I know I can change my sleep cycle. That's the most important thing I have learned from this process, it's that anything is possible when you put your mind to it. The human mind is absolutely incredible. I feel more confident now than I have maybe EVER.

    I have learned to embrace uncertainty and it is a beautiful thing. When I first started this taper I was scared poopless. So uncertain and frightened thinking to myself, "your probably going to relapse anyways so why even bother?". So frightened about being uncomfortable throughout the whole taper. But if you never try then you will never know. I'm still frightened, but it's a different kind of frightened now. It's the roller coaster kind of frightened where it's exhilarating at the same time and it's exciting! We all have one life...let's not live a life of regret.

    I am still trying to find my place in the world. But now I am clearheaded and my decisions are much smarter. You know, that's another thing that I learned throughout this process, it's that once the fog lifts all your problems don't just magically disappear, in fact it becomes crystal clear and it can be overwhelming. I can so see why people relapse and turn back to drugs, it's because your not used to seeing everything so vividly and it can be scary. Once your not all doped up your life doesn't magically rearrange itself neatly so that everything is peachy....but...the beauty of it is that you can assess and deal with everything much more intelligently.

    I am not fully clean and I don't want to come off pretentious because believe me I still struggle. But now the struggle is so worth it. People say that you have to hit rock bottom to turn things around but everyone's rock bottom is different. My rock bottom was when I couldn't even bare to look at myself in the mirror anymore. Now, I fancy myself in the mirror quite a bit .

    There is still much to do...talk to you all soon!

  26. #56
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Good morning Spot !

    The positivity is so evident in your last post Man and from my experience that goes a long way getting threw a taper . I will say this about my case - Just 3-4 short weeks ago I would see the sun come up every few days after a night of rampant insomnia . Had been that way for years , long before subs or handful of pills days . I got in a routine like mentioned above and for the most part have been sleeping much better . No pc after 10:30 or so , in bed by 11-1130 with everything done so I don't have to get back up and take my melatonin .

    Gosh so true that seeing things so vividly can be a bit scary . Busy body keeps the mind occupied eh .

    You are doing great Man and this part will soon be over . Stay strong , be well and have peace !

  27. #57
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    Harry

    I read that the light from our Ipads, Kindle's, laptops, etc keep us awake. It tricks your brain into thinking it's day time and screws up your sleep patterns. So that's why I suggest turning everything off and reading a book or a magazine before bed. If taking a hot bath or shower helps relax you then do that too. I think Blondie said she made a big production out of clean sheets, hot shower and clean pajamas and her Sleepy Time tea and a good book. You'd be surprised how well that works. It's like it tricks your mind into relaxing and you can slow down all those thoughts and actually doze off. I'm not saying you're going to get a full 8 hours of sleep at first, but if you can get a good chunk at one time you'll feel amazing. It's that chopping, 2 hours here and there that really messes with you.

    Yup, being clear headed is a little scary sometimes because you're able to full comprehend the damage you've done. But I think seeing it and acknowledging it is really important, it's a step towards staying clean. If you can remember how you felt when you thought about all the stupid or bad things you did when you were high it helps you associate THAT feeling with using rather than the 'fun' feeling you remember so well. Also, towards the end was it even fun anymore? I know it wasn't for me, it was just about keeping the demon's away. I rarely got a buzz anymore and if I did it was very short lived. So I don't even really think about that aspect, I think that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

    Anyway, just keep taking it one day at a time.
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  28. #58
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry so I didn't get back to you earlier and I see its already been answered but you want to be good and stable at .25 befor you start the skip days. Your real close to the finish line Harry so don't rush things. Be over with befor you know it. Talk with you later.

    Alex

  29. #59
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi everyone

    So after staying on .25 for 4 days today was my first skip day. Besides being extremely exhausted and a little cranky I can say it went smoothly. I have been thinking and I really don't want to do the skip days and instead just JUMP off NOW. I know that Steph only did 1 skip day, dosed then jumped so I am pretty sure it's possible. I am just very excited to turn a new chapter in my life. I don't want to get ahead of myself here so il wait to see how I feel tomorrow.

    Il update later...I'm very tired and my bed looks like heaven!

    Talk to you all soon.
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  30. #60
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry you have done a pretty quick taper so perhaps you don't need the skip days. I would just listen to your body now and take it from there. You have done a great job with your taper and give us an update tomorrow on what you decide.

    Alex

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