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On my sub taper and could use advice.
  1. #91
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry glad you are starting to feel a bit better now. As for the sleep they say its the longest thing to return to normal so you are going thru what most do there. I have been prescribed trazadone for years now for insomnia so I didn't have any problem there. I have had insomnia since I was a kid and if I don't take trazadone its not unusual for me to go 30 hrs without sleep. You mention about the scary fact of people relapsing after months or even years of sobriety. I haven't had a drink in over 8 years now and have been off subs for almost a year and haven't had a pill in 16 months but I know theres a drink out there and a pill out there with my name on it. I don't know what lays ahead in the future but I know im a recovering alcoholic-addict and not a recovered one. Its late now and im about ready to hit the sack but before I go heres a quick example about the power of addiction. My first AA sponsor went to treatment in 1987 and got clean at the age of 31. he ended up going back to school and graduated from college with a accounting degree. Took his CPA test later on and finished first in the state of all people who were taking the test at the time and was now a CPA. This was during the 1990s and he ended up with a high paying job as an accountant at a plant in this area. Bought a house and started collecting antiques and had about 100 thousand antique collection. He took me to my first treatment center in 1992 and became my AA sponsor at the time. In 1999 he had been clean for 12 years at the time. He had many DOC at the time he got clean. Alcohol he drank heavily has used >>>>>> for a long period of time for awhile and had a heavy cocaine habit at one time. I had relapsed and was drinking heavy and trying to get stopped. A friend of mine who was a heavy opiate user had stopped by my apartment and was out trying to find me some valium or Xanax so I can try to detox myself. In the meantime my AA sponsor finds out im drinking again and stops by to talk to me. He played in a softball league at the time and had banged his knee up and had a game the next evening. Hes there talking to me about my drinking and ask me if I know anyone that would have any painkillers. I mentioned my buddy that was out looking for valium for me and said he should be back any minute. He shows up a few minutes later and my sponsor mentions painkillers to him. Said he wanted 1 pill and didn't need it till the next evening. Long story short he eats 1 10 mg vike the next day after being clean for 12 years. Within 3 months hes banging up 300 to 400 mg of oxi a day. He managed to get clean for a little while but within 18 months of that 1 vike he lost his house high paying job his 100 thousand antique collection and ran up 90 thousand in credit card bills. That 1 vike after 12 years of being clean woke up the beast and it was all over. True and scary story. Sorry I wrote a novel here Harry but when you mentioned in your post about relapse it came to mind

    Alex
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  2. #92
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Hello Harry

    Dropping in to see how you are and Man oh Man can I say that is AWESOME to read 7 days off the subs and 47 off the roxie's . So glad to see you are feeling a bit better and getting out and hitting the gym . Jams + working out = good stuff for the mind And body .

    I notice you speak of being freaked out over people relapsing after long term and it brings something I read up which is as follows . '' Once an addict , always an addict " . I'm sure you know this but keep your guard up and know you have my best wishes .

    Keep up the good work and I hope each day forth gets better for you .

  3. #93
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thanks for the story Alex, it really helped me put things in perspective today when I most needed it. I get a lot of ideas in my head saying "just once" and what you told me makes me realize that it's just not an option. Drug addiction is so incredibly complex and takes such courage and strength to overcome it. It just blows my mind that under 2 months ago I would have given my right hand to be where I'm at now, yet, I have thoughts of going back? How can I crave such a thing after all this? It's perversely fascinating.

    Thanks for the support ken. I see that you jumped off! I posted on your thread, keep us updated man.

    This is the end of day 7. I went to the gym today and had much more energy then the previous days. I put on my headphones, blasted my music and went at it for a good 2 hours. Going to the gym is the best form of relief I know of so far so I will keep it up. Mind is still playing games...I decided that I will go to an NA or AA meeting on Friday because...well...out of fear of doing something dumb and maybe keep me in check. It's so early in my recovery and I need to fully realize that I won't feel like superman anytime soon. I spent almost 4 years destroying my body and soul so it's not going to heal in 7 days. I can function like a human being, go to work, make small talk, crack a joke, etc but something is just...off. Time heals I guess.

    Cravings are something I can't really control right now. It's too early to expect less so I know they will come and I will exercise a muscle that needs strengthening, will power. What I can control though I will with great discipline. Things like - eating healthy, exercise, surround myself with positive peoples, all that good stuff.

    Life is SO much better this way...I just need to keep reminding myself of that.

    Talk soon
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  4. #94
    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Harry,

    I'm bored and can't sleep tho I should be so I'm here as per usual. I read bits and pieces of your story along the way, but from about a month ago until very recently I was in a bad place mentally and something in me just wasn't able to invest too much energy into, well anything really.

    But I just read your thread from beginning to end and want you to know you're doing great. I can only hope it will be like that for me when it's my time to face the music and jump. I noticed a few times you mentioned feeling like you haven't found your niche or calling in life. Those statements resonated with me because I feel the exact same way. While using, my passion was strong but it was only for drugs. Nothing else since then has ever really measured up, and any time I was clean I was really just passing time until I could use again.

    I think you said somewhere that you're in your twenties, and those feelings of being kinda lost are apparently pretty normal. I just turned 33 and I still feel that way. It just occurred to me that perhaps it's not even possible to find one's calling in life until they are recovering. (I was going to say clean, but for a lot of us addicts just being clean doesn't equal recovering if we don't change the rest of our lives and thinking patterns.)

    Anyway, I just wanted to pop in and let you know I appreciate your story. I really like your writing style as well, and I hope you continue to post to show those of us still tapering what it's like dealing with the real world without the security blanket of opiates.

    Keep up the good work! =)
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-05-2013 at 04:26 AM.

  5. #95
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hey sucker punch,

    I can totally relate to you saying you unable to invest into anything. I have been pretty selfish on this board where I only whine and complain about my own problems and not contributing but once I feel better I will reciprocate.

    About being passionate about drug addiction, I can totally relate as well. Drug addiction consumed me, it was a part of me, part of my identity. My life and my daily routine was fixated on drugs, it gave me "purpose". Wake up, call dealer, drive to the hood, wait in my car, pick up, use, go home or go work and etc. We are what we do and that is what I did so it was who I was. Then, this sub taper and getting clean was my life. Everything revolved around me getting to this point. So now I think to myself "now what?". Now, well, I don't really know. Staying clean is my main priority but staying clean is a more abstract concept then getting high or getting clean, no clear indication as to what to do so it's a bit scary. I'm going to go to an meeting tomorrow and I hope to gain some insight.

    Welp, day 8 has been knocked down! I woke up today feeling GOOD which was so foreign to me. I'm still unable to get solid sleep but il take what I can get. I'm taking the saying "one day at a time" quite literally now. Before I would just set myself up for disappointment by expecting so much in so little time, but now, one day at a time. Life is a grind- day in day out. I'm also beginning to think I may be suffering from some form of mild bi polarity. One second I'm dancing and singing to a song I love and the next I'm sitting with my fist clenched with malice in my eyes. Made a dr appointment for early next week to make sure everything is peachy within. Oh and btw I do feel much better than I did before but it's been ever so gradual that it's not like a light switch, more like a volume controller increasing ever so slightly.

    To those in the trenches keep fighting the good fight because your worth it.

    Spot

  6. #96
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    What you are feeling, the mood swings, are normal. Remember that your brain is still healing, you are still taking an opiate so your brain is recovering. It takes time to adjust to "life" and yes, the daily grind.

    I was the same way, count my pills, will I have enough for that meeting? What if I have a stressful day? What if our dealer doesn't pick up right away, etc? Now you have time on your hands and it feels like you need a purpose. I think you need to take a breath and not bite off more than you can chew. Those things will come to you in time.

    This is hard and it takes 110% of our effort, so don't put so much pressure on yourself.

    I'm 44, I will be 45 on the 23rd. Last week my director came back from a meeting and we were joking about "living the dream". He asked me how I was doing and how my day was, I said "it's fabulous, I'm living the dream...sooo lucky to be here" (sarcastically) he laughed and we both reflected on how this is NOT what we thought we would be doing with our lives. Not having a completely fulfilling job is ok. I think most of us can say that we don't have our dream job. I actually had what I thought was my dream job and it was a nightmare. That made me reevaluate things and I decided it's ok to have a mediocre job as long as I do something that I believe in and I'm passionate about. I love animals so I dedicate myself to trying to help as many as I can. I know I can't save them all but I can try. At the end of the day I can put my head on my pillow and know that I at least tried to make the world a better place. Sure I'm not curing cancer, but I did something kind and selfless.

    I'm rambling but I want you both to know you shouldn't get discouraged, there is always time to make a change if that's what you want. But be careful about making those kinds of changes now, focus on getting yourself mentally stable. You are fragile still. Everyone feels like a million bucks when they first start subs because things are finally different, then it's status quo. And you think "now what?" (Like you said Harry) now what is you heal, you get to know yourself again. When we are doing drugs we don't even know ourselves anymore. I did things I would never in a million years thought I would do and now I have to not only live with that but also ask myself why? Who was that person? How did I get there?

    I know it's hard but try to be patient, you WILL get there!

  7. #97
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Hello Harry

    Wanted to drop in and see how you where feeling lately before forcing myself to do a light workout . Congrats on 8 days behind you . Hoping day 9 is fine .

    Keep strong and never give up this fight Man .

  8. #98
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi everyone...

    Today should be my 16th day completely clean, but it's not. Two days ago on my two week sobriety anniversary I relapsed. I haven't been posting at all and got a bit cocky and now I feel like I'm back to square one. I'm really pissed at myself, I had no real reason to use again except that I just wanted to...all that hard work and pain just flushed down the toilet for nothing. I won't lie I'm a bit worried...I don't even care if I have to go through withdrawal but it just feels like I unleashed the demon within all over again. I had all these x's marked off on my calendar and now because of that one day it ruins everything.

    I really didn't want to come back with my tail between my legs but I don't know where else to turn. I'm going to a meeting in a couple hours so I guess il start from there.

    Day 2...

  9. #99
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I'm so sorry about the relapse. What did you take and for how long? How are you feeling physically?

    If you get right back on track with meetings and motivation to stay clean, you will be ok. At least you didn't go on a month binge!

    Let me know how you're doing after the meeting. Try not to stress too much. I have faith that you will get right back on track.

    Kat

  10. #100
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    Hi everyone...

    Today should be my 16th day completely clean, but it's not. Two days ago on my two week sobriety anniversary I relapsed. I haven't been posting at all and got a bit cocky and now I feel like I'm back to square one. I'm really pissed at myself, I had no real reason to use again except that I just wanted to...all that hard work and pain just flushed down the toilet for nothing. I won't lie I'm a bit worried...I don't even care if I have to go through withdrawal but it just feels like I unleashed the demon within all over again. I had all these x's marked off on my calendar and now because of that one day it ruins everything.

    I really didn't want to come back with my tail between my legs but I don't know where else to turn. I'm going to a meeting in a couple hours so I guess il start from there.

    Day 2...
    Harry: Not to make light of a relapse or anything, but relapse can be a part of recovery. What you do is get back on that horse and ride: You say: I did this. I don't want this. And move forward: as best as you can make the next right choice, step by step. That is all you can do. This is a dangerous business, being an addict. It's hard, hard, hard. Getting clean is easy, staying clean is where the work starts. I highly recommend reading, on Need to Talk, ARTIST658's thread, she is one wise woman. One of the things recommended by Robert_325 (among others) is 90 meetings in 90 days. You say you really don't want to come back with your tail between your legs, but that is what takes courage, coming back. That makes you a true warrior. We're here to help in the best way we can and no one here is going to judge you. Might want to slap you along side the head and say: what were you thinking? LOL, but so many of us have been just where you are right now. So POST. Know that we are rooting for you! Hope your meeting goes well, hold fast, and hang tough. And always remember getting clean is not an event, it is a process.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  11. #101
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Kat I took 90mg of Roxie's for one day...physically I don't feel too bad but it's like a switch has been turned on in my head saying "GO", as in go full speed to where I was before. I'm just really pissed at myself, I have no idea what I was thinking. I look back on that day and it was so not worth it but it's like my appetite for self destruction has reared it's ugly head again.

    Rose thank you for your wisdom...I was wondering when you were going to post on my thread! Heh jk. I completely realize relapse is a part of recovery but the scary thing is that in some twisted way I justified that reasoning to using again. I'm a classic over thinker and it's like me and my mind can't have harmony. Man, recovery is no joke, literally fighting for my life here.

    Meeting starts in 30 minutes...talk to you guys soon.
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  12. #102
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry while I am sorry you slipped for a day im glad it was only for 1 day and you were hitting a meeting this evening. Harry you showed your serious by coming right back on here and posting about your slip which is good. keep us posted buddy as we will be here to offer you support and advise.

    Alex
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  13. #103
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    Like Rose said relapse is part of recovery and the important thing is to learn from this experience and remember what you learned. This is hard, really hard. It takes a lot of work and staying vigilant. We can't ever take one pill, like you said it ignited something. That's part of being an addict.

    I glad you came back and posted. Keep posting and use this experience to stay strong.

  14. #104
    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    I notice that any new patterns of positive changes I have started to consciously make fall apart when I lose attention on the effort. Old habits die hard and it takes constant conscious awareness at first while new neural networks form for the positive and they become habit, and the old networks die out. What I'm trying to say is don't let the old behavior patterns take over again while you're not paying attention.
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  15. #105
    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Harry, how are you doing? How was your meeting?

  16. #106
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Rose Steph Alex anyone out there with clean time I am at your mercy. I relapsed once again last night and I am absolutely about to lose it. The demon within has been unleashed and I am so terrified that I won't be able to stop. I went to a meeting on Friday, it was a spectacular group of people who seemed genuinely happy and supportive. I sat there and listened like I did at every other meeting I have been to (maybe 10 now) but I feel like I really need to get involved.

    I relapsed twice since I got completely clean and I feel myself going right back to where I was two months ago. I don't even know why I relapsed last night, my second job is close to my dealer and I talked myself out of going to grab- made it 5 minutes from my home- turned my car around and drove right back to my dealer. Guys, I am truly terrified and don't know what to do. For now I will attended every single meeting I can possibly attend but is here anything else that may help? Is this a matter of will power because I feel like I have none at the moment. I am truly ashamed at myself.

    My mother friends girlfriend, they told me recently how proud they are of me and the guilt inside is crushing me. I was doing so well, where did it all go wrong. I feel like I let everyone down in both my life and you guys on this board. I don't mean to make this sound like a sob story but I am honestly scared straight.

    Considering getting a drug therapist also but money is tight as well. Feeling like a total failure at the moment.

  17. #107
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    I have a few sub pieces left...should I use them for a few days? I don't even care if I go through withdrawal because I totally deserve it but maybe it's an option? I don't know guys any words will help, my mind is completely open to you guys who have helped me this far.

  18. #108
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry, How much sub do you have? Perhaps you do need the sub longer, I don't know. I will let others here answer that question. I think your answer is going to lie in posting, posting, posting, and to seriously get into the 90 in 90. 90 meetings in 90 days, counseling. Get to that NA meeting and 'fess up and find yourself a sponsor, someone with some seriously clean time. CUT off all TIES with any dealers. Another thing: the self-loathing, nothing is going to change what has happened, let alone letting yourself sink into depression through self-blame. Face it head on: You used. You know you shouldn't have. Take responsibility. Get help and do the next right thing. Whatever you do, FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE. Do the next right thing.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  19. #109
    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    I agree with Rose, self loathing is only going to lead to more excuses for more using.

    Do you have EAP through work? You might check that out if you do and get some one on one counseling and keep up those NA meetings.

    If you think that taking very small doses of subs will deter you from using again, then maybe you should start back on it. But be careful about relying on subs to stay clean. At some point you have to come off subs and face the daily tug of war. I think this is a personal decision you have to make. No one here will judge you if you decide a low dose will help you get back on your feet. I would encourage you to use that time to figure out why you relapsed and make whatever changes you need to make. (Cut off the contacts, etc)

    This is the hardest thing you will ever do and it's always a constant battle. There is no quick fix, the taper is great because you have something to focus on. When it's over its normal to feel said or miss the pills or routine. You probably already know all that, but it's worth repeating.

    Keep posting Harry, let us know what you decide.
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  20. #110
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry sorry you are going thru this. I know you did a fairly quick taper Harry and im just guessing here but maybe you needed to be on subs a bit longer. Right befor I started subs I was trying to research it. I wasn't aware of the forums here but was looking at a couple of other sites. One thread I remember reading was about doing a fast 21 day taper starting at around 10 mg and getting off within 3 weeks befor you became addicited to it. I knew if I did that there was no way I would stay clean. After I started subs and learned a little more and especially after I found this site I saw more aout tapering. I could have tapered a little quicker im sure but took my time because I needed time Harry. I don't know if you had been on subs a bit longer if that would have made a difference or not Harry. I know your frustrated with yourself but don't beat yourself up it will just make it worse. You haven't let anyone down here Harry. You mentioned will power and ive always thought when it came to will power fighting this disease you can throw will power out the window. Harry my best wishes to you and keep us posted.

    Alex

  21. #111
    Lincolnecho is offline Member
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    Harry, your plea was for feed back from people who are clean. I am not clean at the moment as I'm in the last phase of my taper.

    With that said, suboxone has two components. There is the partial opiade and a blocker. The partial opiade eliminates the withdrawal symptoms during induction and taper. The blocker will not allow one to feel the "get "high" effects of taking opiates during the taper.

    My plan includes an option to take blocker only medication after the taper if I stumble.

    Naltrexone is such a blocker medication. It has the blocker and no opiate. Kind of like anti use for alcoholics, but you don't get sick.

    Taking naltrexone and knowing I won't get high could be a tool to get me through the rough spots during my first year. Hopefully, I won't need it.

    The only fear I have with naltrexone is overdose. If I'm on naltrexone and take opiates I won't get high. If I take more overdose is still possible.

    I'm not sure what the future will bring for me. I'm working and hoping for the best and have contingency plans. Like you, I want to be clean for life, I'm tired of the shame, guilt and other impacts using has done for me.

    Good luck, I know you can do this!

    Lincoln

  22. #112
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Harry

    Sorry to see you're going threw this trying time . Just wanted to say you have my absolute best wishes fighting this beast .

    Be well man , be well
    Ken

  23. #113
    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    Harry I noticed you haven't posted again since the other day when you admitted you relapsed again, and I just wanted you to know that I'm worried about you, (and I'm sure I'm not the only one here).

    With the holidays coming, and it being potentially a very lonely and difficult time for us addicts, I have to remind you that you're not alone. My fear is that you are currently going down a shame spiral that will at best lead you back to subs and getting clean again, and at worse, well, it's unspeakable and everyone's worst fear.

    I really hope you will give yourself a break. Finding yourself clean and yet without that purpose we talked about that gives you a reason to persevere, can lead to boredom, emptiness, and running back to the drugs that masked those feelings so well, but with a huge cost.

    I don't know how to help you find a purpose that will get you through this. I've been thinking about finding organizations to volunteer for, to help me get out of my own head and maybe do a little bit of good. Maybe that's something you could consider?

    Either way, please post an update; even if it's just to say you're still alive. Whatever it is you're going thru now, your friends here care and are here to listen and try to help in any way. I just want to know you're ok, as I'm sure all of us here do.

    If you would like to talk, my email can be found on page 5 of my thread. & if not, that's ok, but please talk to somebody, and please let us know what's up.
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  24. #114
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry,

    Wanted to check on you. Noticed you haven't posted for almost 2 weeks. You ok?

    I hope things are well and that you've been able to stay sober. If not, please give us an update so we can help. We all understand!

    Hope you had a nice Christmas.
    Kat

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