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On my sub taper and could use advice.
  1. #1
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Lightbulb On my sub taper and could use advice.

    Hi humans,

    I have a thread on need to talk but this post would be better suited here.

    Brief background:
    Been addicted to opiates mainly roxicodone 30mgs for over 3 years now. I would use usually 90mg but in the last few weeks it has escalated to 150mg. Throughout my history of drug use I was also somehow able to skip a couple days in a week without anything. I did a pretty good job of not using back-to-back days too many times. Never prescribed, bought off the street and snorted or mostly smoked. In the last few years my life has turned upside down.

    I started suboxone maybe 2 months ago because i literally tell myself "this is the last time" every time i used for 2 years now. I was just not confident in my ability to go cold turkey due to my relapse history. But once i got a hold of suboxone i started a destructive habit of using subs one day and using my DOC the next. Many times i would use BOTH ON THE SAME DAY.
    I decided enough is enough and ever since i posted here i have been roxicodone free for 4 days. Even though i am using suboxone i am still a bit proud of myself since this is the LONGEST i have abstained from roxies in a long time.

    Ok so i have inducted myself using Robert 325s method at 2mg. I tried to use the least amount as possible yet enough to know that using roxies again would be a waste.

    I have a few questions.

    I can honestly say that the last 4 days have been difficult for me. I am trying to assess what is mental and what is real. I understand that there is a "stabilizing" period and i thought i would have hit it by now. I feel very nauseous, anxious, clammy hands and feet like im in a constant state of mild w/d. I am also having major cravings but i know that part is something i will and can work on. I understand that suboxone isnt a miracle drug (although i have read many reports of people saying it is) but i am a bit worried that my dose isn't high enough, and that tomorrow will be my 5th day so i will have to reduce my dose to 1.5.

    To the ones that know, what do you guys think? Should i stay on my dose a little longer? Will dropping my dose actually make me feel better?


    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    Hi humans,

    I have a thread on need to talk but this post would be better suited here.

    Brief background:
    Been addicted to opiates mainly roxicodone 30mgs for over 3 years now. I would use usually 90mg but in the last few weeks it has escalated to 150mg. Throughout my history of drug use I was also somehow able to skip a couple days in a week without anything. I did a pretty good job of not using back-to-back days too many times. Never prescribed, bought off the street and snorted or mostly smoked. In the last few years my life has turned upside down.

    I started suboxone maybe 2 months ago because i literally tell myself "this is the last time" every time i used for 2 years now. I was just not confident in my ability to go cold turkey due to my relapse history. But once i got a hold of suboxone i started a destructive habit of using subs one day and using my DOC the next. Many times i would use BOTH ON THE SAME DAY.
    I decided enough is enough and ever since i posted here i have been roxicodone free for 4 days. Even though i am using suboxone i am still a bit proud of myself since this is the LONGEST i have abstained from roxies in a long time.

    Ok so i have inducted myself using Robert 325s method at 2mg. I tried to use the least amount as possible yet enough to know that using roxies again would be a waste.

    I have a few questions.

    I can honestly say that the last 4 days have been difficult for me. I am trying to assess what is mental and what is real. I understand that there is a "stabilizing" period and i thought i would have hit it by now. I feel very nauseous, anxious, clammy hands and feet like im in a constant state of mild w/d. I am also having major cravings but i know that part is something i will and can work on. I understand that suboxone isnt a miracle drug (although i have read many reports of people saying it is) but i am a bit worried that my dose isn't high enough, and that tomorrow will be my 5th day so i will have to reduce my dose to 1.5.

    To the ones that know, what do you guys think? Should i stay on my dose a little longer? Will dropping my dose actually make me feel better?


    Thanks!
    Hi there. No, you definitely do NOT want to drop your dose. Doesn't sound like you're stable at all. You only drop once you're stable. My story is very similar to yours. For years, I was using large amounts of Norco (or whatever I could get my hands on) every month, then when I would run out, I would switch back to subs. Yes, I dosed Norco and subs on the same day many, many times too. I think this constant back and forth with Norco and subs really messed me up. When I re-inducted on subs, I tried to stabilize at 3 mg and sat there feeling like sh*t for about 10 days. I didn't want to increase but finally went to 4 mg and that did the trick. I stabilized and dropped to 3 mg after about 6 days. Now I'm down to 1.75 mg.

    I'm not saying you need 4 mgs, but I do think you need a bit more sub to stabilize. Once I stabilized, the only real complaint I had was a little sweating and mild anxiety but it wasn't a big deal. It was manageable.

    Hopefully Rose or Alex will drop by soon and I'm assuming they'll also say you're not stabilized and may need a bit more sub.

    -Katherine
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-21-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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  3. #3
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thanks for the response Katherine.

    Yeah, something about using both at the same time makes me feel like we wreaked havoc on our receptors. I had this plan that i would use only .5mg-1mg for a week or so and stop everything all together. But as the hours rolled by i gave in to my cravings and used my DOC. This became a terrible habit.

    So, once you stabilized, you felt pretty good throughout the day?

    I really don't want to up my dose but i also do want to do this right. I am hoping that what i am experiencing will pass in a day or two. Or maybe its just my body expecting to get a dose of roxicodone soon since it was use to both drugs >>>>>>>>> through me simultaneously. Is this just wishful thinking?

    I mean i KNOW that the subs are definately doing something. For negative effects I havent had bowel movement in a few days and i am having extreme difficulty reaching climax (sorry but maybe useful information).
    For positive effects i am having moments of clarity and feel good to not be all doped up and wasting countless hours and money. I already saved 200 bucks

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Yes, I think that's wishful thinking .. lol. Seems to me you need to up your dose a bit. I didn't want to up my dose either when I was first trying to stabilize, but once I did I felt so much better within 24 hours. Yeah, I felt pretty normal throughout the day after that. Just a few minor symptoms - some just mental. I certainly didn't feel like I was in mild WD, like you said.

    By the way, sub (and I think most opiates) can really mess with your sex life. That's been the case with me for many years now and I can't wait for things to get back to normal in that department! As far as the constipation, that's probably normal. Try some Imodium, works wonders.

    When I decided to raise my dose a little, I started with .5 mg and waited a day. Next day added another .5 mg and finally stabilized there. You could try that if you want. Or, just go ahead to 3 mg. I wouldn't be surprised if you need it since you've been taking subs for a long time already.

    Let me know how it goes!
    Katherine

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    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    The 4 days part isn't set in stone, it's more of a guide. You are correct, all that back & forth is affecting your ability to stabilize. You will get there, it might take a few more days. Just do NOT drop until you are stable. I had very little discomfort because I followed Akwx's advice and didnt rush.

    It's important to stabilize, if you drop too soon you will struggle throughout your taper. Back to the 4 days thing, that is based on the fact that subs have a long half life. If you need 7 days you will be ok, the idea is to not get complacent at a dose. It's a balancing act, you don't want to stay at a dose too long but you also don't want to drop too fast. Everyone is different, try not to overthink things. Listen to your body, give it a chance to heal.

    How are you feeling otherwise? Do you feel ok? You might not feel 100% right away because of all the opiates, that's ok. You shouldn't feel w/d's either. Initially you might feel a little "off" and tired, that's all part of stabilizing. If you are feeling w/d symptoms then increase by .50mg, don't start adding more in large doses, you might just need a little more. But if you are feeling a little off, hold off if you can.
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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I'm suck a dork. I didn't mean Imodium for constipation. Duh.

    If it persists, try an over-the-counter med or natural remedies like supplements or even prune juice.

    How are you feeling?

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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi ladies,

    I woke up today feeling decent. I just took my first dose and i notice whenever i do i start feeling a little nauseous. Like its the subs thats making me feel weird not the lack of. Im trying very hard to listen to my body but after years of abuse its kind if difficult to objectively assess.

    During the period (about 2 months) i was abusing both subs and roxies i only used about 3.5 8mg sub strips so a total of 28mg of subs so i hope i didnt do too much damage.

    While i was actively using i went through insane emotional rollercoaster rides through peaks and valleys. Now that i am on subs i am still moody but the valleys arent as low anymore so thats a good thing.

    I feel like my body is somewhat stabilizing now. I REALLY REALLY dont want to up my dose. Im trying to not be stubborn and want to do this right but i think im good at 2mg for now. I'll stick to this dose for another day or two.

    I noticed i look alot healthier and better. I still find it kind of difficult to focus on one thing for too long, my thoughts are kind of all over the place. When my mind and body is not actively engaged in something i start to obsess about my cravings so im trying to stay as busy as possible.

    blahblahblah

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Harry my name is Alex aand congrats on your decision to become opiate free. I see you are trying to get stable at 2 mg and see that Iwant and Sharks have already offered you some good advise. Your last post you stated you thought you were good at 2 mg so if thats the case i would remain there at least 2 more days to make sure befor even considering dropping. The induction part is probably the most important part of the taper plan to make it work right. The constipation is one of the side effects that subs can cause and it should clear up on its own soon. My best wishes to you Harry and i will talk to you later

    Alex
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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thank you Alex for the support!

    I spent the last few hours soaking up all the stories and advice this forum had to offer, you and shark are awesome people for getting through it and sticking around to help others. I hope that i have that kind of empathy when i get all of this behind me!

    Today was kind of tough for me. I think i read shark saying this in her thread but i feel waves of emotions minute by minute. One minute i feel great and the next my heart is about to jump out of my chest. I keep expecting myself to feel "perfect" but thats just unrealistic.

    I had the whole day to myself and i honestly just did not know what to do. Days like this i would go out and grab, come back home and be completely content with doing absolutely nothing. I would sit in front of my computer or ipad and just google the most absurd things. The amount of time that i have wasted kind of makes me sick to my stomach, not the mention the $$$. Yet, in the back of my head this voice kept whispering to me "pssttt....hey, hey you, wouldnt it be great if you had a little something right now".

    Drug addiction is absolutely a disease IMO. To know how destructive it is to ones life and STILL wanting to do it? How sick is that? Its sick, literally sick.

    On a brighter note. I am finally having some bowel movement ))))

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Good to see the constipation is gone Harry as I recall I had it for my first 5 or 6 days on subs. you stated that drug addiction is a disease IMO. Theres no question about it being a disease. My DOC for years was alcohol and until I went to a treatment center and became involved in AA back in 1992 did I come to fully understand the disease part of it. I had been arrested for Drunk Driving back in late 1985 and to get my drivers >>>>>>> back I had to attend 18 hrs of classes as that was the law here at the time. Anyone in the class for that month that had a BAC of over .15 had to take 4 more classes as they figured if you were driving a car at over .15 you might have a problem. Also I was suppose to go to 10 AA meetings during this time. Ended up going to 7 meetings and just lied about attending 3 others. I know they stressed the disease part of alcoholism during these classes but I just wanted my >>>>>>> back so it all went in 1 ear and out the other. In the summer of 1992 I had blood work done and my liver count was about 12 times higher then regular. I tried to stop on my own and would take 2 and 3 week breaks and tell myself I would control it better the next time. I kept getting worse and didn't realize I was battling a disease that was progressing as time went by. I couldn't understand that even if I wasn't drinking I had a disease that was progressing for the worst even when I wasn't drinking. I came to understand it in late 1992 when I went to treatment on my own as I was getting worse and worse as time went by. I stayed sober for 14 months only to attempt some controlled drinking and spent 11 years continuing the insanity. Ended up in Nov of 2005 taking my last drink. I used opiates recreationally for some time befor that ended up out of control also. I know today that I am a addict to mind altering substances and will be one until the day that I die. Today I am ok with that. As long as I am a recovering addict its something I am alright with. I have a disease which I will always have IMO as I don't believe I will ever be a recovered addict. A recovering one yes a recovered one no. Harry I jumped off subs over 10 months ago and I still hear those little whispers myself. If I were to follow up one of those whispers and use one of two things would end up happening. This is based on my track record of many years. I would use an opiate and be off to the races real fast or I would use an opiate and get by with it and my crazy mind would tell myself I used and im ok and I can use just every now and then. That would not last very long and I would be off to the races just a little slower. Sorry if I turned this into rambling Harry but when you mentioned disease it just all came to mind. Talk with you later.

    Alex

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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Seems like you have been to hell and back alex. I am glad to hear that your back on track man.

    I have been on 2mg for 7 days now to make sure i was stabilized. I took 1 mg during the day and i am about to take .5 now. Is it okay to take 2 different doses on the same day? The reason i am doing this is to slowly stop taking my PM dose so i can only dose ONCE a day. Or should i just be doing .75 in the day and .75 at night?

    I dont even know what "stabilized" is supposed to feel like. I still get short periods of intense cravings which i dont think is supposed to be normal when your on subs. But it passes eventually but comes back sooner or later almost always. I am trying not to count the days because i dont really consider being on subs clean time but today will be my 8th day without any roxies which is pretty huge to me. I dont remember the last time i have been without them for this long.

    Last night i was running some errands and one of the things i had to do required for me to drive by the area my dealer lives. I wish i can say that i didnt pay it no mind and had no desire but that was not the case. As i was driving by i had to talk myself out of doing something extremely stupid. The rational part of me KNOWS how stupid a relapse would be but the irrational drug addict in me did not care one eff. I've been reading alot of literature these days (articles, books etc) about drugs and drug addiction to try and get a deeper understanding of this disease i have and it has helped me. To know that i am not crazy, weak or a bad person but rather i have an illness.

    You punish bad behavior. You treat illness.

    A part of me gets really sad. I get sad for many reasons but the biggie is that i cannot do what i want. I "think" i want to do drugs and i get sad that i wont allow myself. Its like being a little kid all over again. Like when you really want candy but your mom wont let you eat it. I "think" i want drugs but what i REALLY want is to lead a productive and successful life which requires me to be CLEAN.

    I have a loving family, an amazing beautiful girlfriend, and a few friends i consider my brothers. Yet, i feel so alone...so isolated and disconnected from the world.

  12. #12
    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    Heya,

    I take 2 different doses during the day, and have ever since I dropped below 8. I got Alex's ok about it, so I don't see how it could be a problem for you.

    =)

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    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    You are fine taking 2 doses a day, just try to stick to no more than 2 doses. Try to space them 8-12 hours apart, same time everyday.

    Are you going to NA meetings or therapy? I think that would help you with your cravings and the isolation you are feeling. In NA meetings you will meet other people who are going through the same things and understand your struggles. I urge you to find a meeting.

    You have to try to find the positives, I know that's tough right now. But you said you haven't gone this long without Roxie's, that is a step in the right direction. No you aren't clean, but you are going in the right direction. If you took a Roxie how would you feel 4 hours later? Is it worth it?
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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thanks sucker punch I have been taking two different doses on the same day and no complications!

    Sharksfan, I am not going to NA meetings yet but tommorow I will push myself to go. It's strange but I feel better after I dropped to 1.5. I have been on 1.5 for 5 days now and tommorow I will drop to 1.125.
    I am pretty happy with my progress ESP since I didn't relapse. This is the second longest time I have gone without roxies. The first time being over 2 years ago.

    So far I have saved hundreds of dollars and I feel much healthier. I still have intense cravings but they pass much quicker by now. I picture myself smoking a pill of tin foil or crushing it then snorting it and it makes me feel sick. The nausea is still a problem but Motrin seems to help a bit.

    I have a question for you guys. I have the 8mg subs so how on earth am I supposed to cut a .125 piece? I don't have extra subs to waste so I have to be very careful. Any suggestions?!

    Thanks

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    systolic_suckerpunch is offline Senior Member
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    Do you have the pills or the strips?

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    Finalquit4me is offline New Member
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    I had my partner dose me to come off suboxone slowly. I was taking 16mg a day and got to 1mg a day. Then 1mg every other day. Find someone you can trust who won't cave to your demands of needing more. Yes, it sucks. But it is far better withdrawal than narcs! I used to take 400mg Percs a day. I lived overseas and they were sold OTC. My liver began to fail and I moved back home. I'm on day 5 of no subs nd feel anxious and my legs ache. But nothing in comparison to opiate withdrawal. You have to taper slowly. I didn't tell my doc I was tapering because I have no insurance and at $9.00 a strip, I would be broke. I started with 1 strip a day for 3 weeks, then 1/3 a strip for 2 weeks. It wasn't until I hit 1/4 a strip I started aching. I stuck with it for about a month and was okay to go down to 1/8. Your body will let you know when you're ready to reduce. If you're serious about getting off of these, this does work. I was on subs for 2 years after a 6 year addiction and many rehab stints. Take plenty of vitamin B complex and vitamin D. There's also Bali Kratum, but I would look into this if I were you. I take it and it works, but I only use it when I need. While it is addictive, it is only so if its abused or used long term. It has calmed me down and after 10 minutes od taking it, I have no leg pain and can function. I'm not recommending it, just saying it works for me. This being said, I'm a teacher and cannot miss work, so I had no choice. I take about 9g a day (3G at a time) but only needed 1.5G this morning! So I figure I will be done with it by the 10th day? Also, walk A LOT. Even if you have to drag yourself out of bed with ringing ears.....exersize is your friend!

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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Suckerpunch I have the films

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    Sharks fan is offline Advanced Member
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    Harry

    There are some youtube videos that show you how to cut the strips. Or google images, there is an image of the various sizes and a coin next to them for size reference. I would post links but they would get deleted.

    In terms if being exact, it's almost impossible when you get to such low doses, just round up slightly if you need to. Also, use a toothpick to place the tiny pieces under your tongue. That way you know you got it in the right place and it won't get stuck to your teeth.
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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Thanks shark!

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    harry I don't know if you dropped to 1.12 now or stoll on 1.5. if you haven't dropped yet to make things simple you might just want to try 1.25 to make things simple. Then you could go to .1 and then .75. Little less then 25% drops but there drops and that's whats most important. Just mentioned this as you might want to consider it to make things a little simpler. If you go to 1.125 then drop 25% that would take you to .84 and lol how would you try to figure to get to .84. Just a though for you an by the way your doing a great job so far. Talk with you later

    Alex

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Harry, how's the taper going? Post when you get a chance.

    Hope you had a good weekend.
    Katherine

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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi guys,

    Alex I would have loved to do what you suggested but unfortunately (or fortunately) I only have about 2 8mg strips left to taper off of. I don't have much to spare so I'm forced to keep moving forward.

    Today I dropped to .75 and only dosing once a day now. It's a little bit more then 25% but I feel good so far. I had a real tough time getting past the first week but now I feel much better. The taper has gone much better than expected but I know my work is far from done. Everyone seems to agree that once you get to real low doses that that's when you start feeling it. I kind of freaked myself out today but it passed as I got my day going.

    I keep waiting for the "uh oh" moment as I taper but it has yet to come. But don't worry I'm not getting comfortable...I know I must remain vigilant.

    As each day passes my confidence seems to get a little bit more stronger. Then fact that I haven't used in 17 days now is pretty cool. Yeah yeah I know I'm on subs but I am not engaging in addict behaviour anymore. To me that's huge. There's still much work to be done.

    Katherine, i read your recent posts and I'm sorry to hear about your series of unfortunate events. But it's just a minor setback! Keep your eyes on the prize Katherine...I am rooting for you!!!
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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Ok I definitely jumped the gun last night. Today is my second day on .75 and I most definitely feel this drop. Feeling minor wd symptoms like clammy hands, achey bones etc. The anxiety is the problem though.

    I got cocky but quickly got humbled. Am I supposed to live in fear? I keep flirting with the idea of using. I hope this feeling of self doubt passes.

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    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi guys

    I'm lying in bed right now unable to sleep working myself up. Starting to feel some minor restless legs and my heart is beating out of my chest.

    I just reread my post from the other day and I'm shaking my head at my arrogance. I didn't think me dropping a tiny bit more than 25% would do anything but boy was I wrong.

    Am I freaking myself out here? I'm going on to my third day on .75 so should I just ride this out? Throughout this whole taper I never once used a little extra sliver but I'm considering doing so now but I REALLY don't want to. If this is just me stabilizing then I'll grit my teeth and bare it like I did when I first started. Everyone seems to agree that when your near the end of the taper that that's when you feel it most. I'm on my 19th day and down to .75 mg...maybe I went too fast? But please keep in mind I have 2 8mg strips left.

    Steph or Alex if you are reading this any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Sorry if this sounds like rambling I'm typing this from my phone.

    Much love

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    Hi guys

    I'm lying in bed right now unable to sleep working myself up. Starting to feel some minor restless legs and my heart is beating out of my chest.

    I just reread my post from the other day and I'm shaking my head at my arrogance. I didn't think me dropping a tiny bit more than 25% would do anything but boy was I wrong.

    Am I freaking myself out here? I'm going on to my third day on .75 so should I just ride this out? Throughout this whole taper I never once used a little extra sliver but I'm considering doing so now but I REALLY don't want to. If this is just me stabilizing then I'll grit my teeth and bare it like I did when I first started. Everyone seems to agree that when your near the end of the taper that that's when you feel it most. I'm on my 19th day and down to .75 mg...maybe I went too fast? But please keep in mind I have 2 8mg strips left.

    Steph or Alex if you are reading this any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Sorry if this sounds like rambling I'm typing this from my phone.

    Much love
    Hey Harry,

    Sorry you're feeling badly. Yes, that huge drop is a problem. You were at 1.5 mg before right? You should have gone to 1.25 instead, then 1, then .75. You made a 50% drop.

    I know it's difficult since you only have 2 strips left. Can you get another a couple more? This taper is best done slowly and with only 25% drops at a time. My advice would be to at least go back up to 1 mg or 1.25 mg until you're stable. Everyone who makes drops bigger than 25% almost always experience problems.

    I feel for you, I really do. I noticed you're offline now. Hopefully Alex will weigh in as well tonight. Hang in there and take a sliver if that's all you can afford since you only have 2 strips left.

    I'm pulling for you!
    Katherine

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Harry did you go from 1.125 to .75? If you did that was a pretty good drop of almost 35%. Im sorry your having a rough time with the drop and Maybe you might try adding a .125 piece to your .75. That would put you at .875 which is what would be close to a 25% drop from 1.125. With 2 8 mg strips left you could do this and stay there for 3 or 4 days then drop from .875 to .66 which would get you back on track with 25 % drops. You could try to ride out the .75 doses Harry but I would like you to get stable now befor any more drops. Worried that it might make you to uncomfortable and end up causing problems soon. With 16 mg you should have enough to taper off if you increase to .875 and stay there 3 or 4 days then drop to .66. It would put you right back on schedule Harry and at this late point you want as little of discomfort as possible to get thru this ok. Harry a lot of this becomes mental now your mind can at this point become your worst enemy. This is just my opinion Harry but if it were me I think I would try going to .875 and take it from there. Im doing the math real quick Harry and does it look like to you that you have enough to taper down with what im suggesting Harry? I only want what I think will work best for you harry so what do you think of my suggestion Harry?
    You could dose at .875 for 4 days then drop 25% rest of the way on a 5 day schedule and have just enough to taper off. Best of luck Harry and know that im a rooting for you to get thru this.

    Alex

  27. #27
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Katherine and Alex I was on 1.125 not 1.5!!! That would have been an insane drop, heh. So because i went to .75 I'm only not taking about .1 since I should be on .85ish. Can a .1 difference really make this big an impact?

    Btw Alex I just double checked the math and it seems like with 16mg I should have plenty to do it your way. I just took the smallest piece possible and tommorow I will take .875. But these doses are so low that it's going to be a 0.1mg or 0.2mg off always (human error when cutting strips) so I have to learn to deal with this I guess.

    Ive had problems sleeping my entire life but it's impossible to sleep for me right now. I'm sure a most of this is mental.

  28. #28
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Oh, my bad, I thought you were on 1.5 mg before. Sorry.

    How are you feeling today? Did you take a sliver.. did it help?

    Have you tried Valerian or Melatonin for sleep? Also, Hyland's Restful Leg works really well.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-05-2013 at 11:02 AM.

  29. #29
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    Hi Katherine, I took the smallest sliver possible last night and I think it helped a little. I woke up this morning sneezing rapidly and with my legs achey but was fine after taking my dose.

    I have tried every sleeping medicine on the planet. The natural stuff like melatonin and valerian root does absolutely nothing for me now. I never tried hylands though so I'll deff check that out.

  30. #30
    Harry Spotter is offline Member
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    3 weeks on subs down to .75

    I have not gotten high for 21 days now. I didn't think I would have lasted 3 days without smoking or snorting something yet here I am with the finish line in sight. But a small part of me misses it. After work today I started fantasising about drugs. Once I got home I literally sat in my car and flirted with the idea of going out to cop...I wasn't going to but I let my mind wander on the idea for a bit. Like some perverse form of pleasure.

    You guys were right. It's majority mind games at this point and I'm trying to equip myself to be prepared. Last night I went to the nearest na meeting and I walked out 15 minutes early. 80% of the people there were young, almost all of them in their twenties (as am I) and I really didn't find it helpful. In fact I found it toxic. The chair person did a spectacular job and his story was very insightful but when it came time to open up the floor to people to share, it was like they were romantasizing their past drug use, like they made a huge mistake getting clean. The older people there were pretty much just showing off to the younger guys about how much they effed up and how much they used. I don't know...maybe I'm the problem.

    I'm desperate to get and stay clean. Il go find another meeting and I hope it's more productive. Like artist said drug addiction is a progressive disease. I can't just sit around and count the days I have to stand up and fight it. I'm scared. I still don't know what my place is in this world, where I fit in, where I can leave my mark. All I know is that I have to beat this now.

    End of rant

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