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need info please
  1. #1
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Default need info please

    hello all,
    today is my second day on suboxone. I induced myself according to Robert 325's Induction plan. Finally stabilized or so I thought at 3 milligrams. Split my induction dose this morning as per Roberts directions and took one and a half milligrams. An hour and a half later was having withdrawal symptoms and took another. 25 milligrams sliver. A little later was having withdrawal symptoms again took another .25 milligrams sliver. What am I doing wrong, did I mess up my induction? where do I go from here? thank you in advance for all your help.

  2. #2
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there, welcome. No, you didn't mess up the induction. What were you taking before Sub? How much and for how long? Let us know so we can help you from here.

    Kat

  3. #3
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I just realized you have another thread on the Need to Talk board. That's ok, but it would probably be best if you stick to this one.

    Kat

  4. #4
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry Kat,
    New to this and thought I messed up my last thread lol. Been an addict on and off for the last 10 years with the last 2 being the worst. Used to use hydros then graduated up and up. For the last 6 months I've been using 1 100 mcg/hr fentanyl patch (orally) with any where from 3-5 bags of street dope thrown in (never IV'd only snorted) per day. Along with some 5 mg oxy's and 8mg dilaudid thrown in now and then. As of right now I just took another .5 mg of sub to try to feel better. Am at work feeling disconnected and weird with an upset stomach. Plan on only taking the other .5 mg of sub tonight to stay on track with my induction amount. Thank you sooooo much for your help!!

    RJ

  5. #5
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Keep track of your symptoms. You had quite a large habit and 3mg. may not be enough to hold you. So, so far today you've taken 2mg. of sub? 1.5mg. this morning and another 1.0mg? Induction may take some time to get the sub stable in your body. You should feel little to NO symptoms. You do want to induct at the minimum "effective" dose. So let's see what your symptoms are for sure. Keep posting and we'll help you through this.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  6. #6
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Iloerose,
    Thank you for your response. I am up to 2.5mg total today as of this post (2:48 est). My appetite is definitely good not voracious but good. I feel better since I took the last .5 mg a couple hours ago. My plan is to only take another .5 mg today to stay in line with my induction dose from yesterday. Do you think this is the right course of action? I know Roberts plan is to start splitting your doses in half on the second day but if I did that I'm sure I would be in w/d's until I took my second dose later today. I'm afraid that if I end up on a really high dose I won't be able to taper and be addicted to the very tool I tried to use to escape this life. Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

    RJ

  7. #7
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ready2LiveAgain View Post
    Iloerose,
    Thank you for your response. I am up to 2.5mg total today as of this post (2:48 est). My appetite is definitely good not voracious but good. I feel better since I took the last .5 mg a couple hours ago. My plan is to only take another .5 mg today to stay in line with my induction dose from yesterday. Do you think this is the right course of action? I know Roberts plan is to start splitting your doses in half on the second day but if I did that I'm sure I would be in w/d's until I took my second dose later today. I'm afraid that if I end up on a really high dose I won't be able to taper and be addicted to the very tool I tried to use to escape this life. Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

    RJ
    How are you feeling? Your habit was pretty big, so you may need more Sub to stabilize. Let's see how you feel in the next day or two. Don't worry if you have to increase a little. It makes no difference as far as the taper plan is concerned - it just adds a little more time to your taper. The most important thing is to get stable first. You won't get addicted if you follow the plan and taper off as recommended.

    Talk soon...
    Kat
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  8. #8
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Kat and Iloerose,
    Just wanted to let you know that I am doing well. All w/d signs have disappeared at this point. I took my last .5 mg (3 mgs total today) at 5 pm est. For the first time in a long time I feel normal. I know this is the medication working and I'm not naive enough to think things have passed. I have a long road ahead of me and I have never been more ready to attack it head on and see it through. I appreciate the help you have both given to me and I know l will be calling on you for more. Probably as soon as tomorrow. Lolol
    P.S. If I have left anything out please let me know.
    Have a great night. Talk to you soon.

    RJ
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  9. #9
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    RJ: Glad you posted to let us know how you are doing. The medication has to build in your system. The induction may take a few more days. You do NOT have to split your dose if you feel more comfortable taking it at one time per day. But you need to decide that for yourself and your own convenience. Subs are strong with a long half-life of around 48-72 hours, so once it gets working in your system it will hold you either way you are comfortable. Alexnt, who will probably post to you at some point here, took his once a day and tapered over 4mos. (he also had to induct at a high amount due to having to induct at a docs office) so no worries about becoming addicted. As Kat pointed out the most important part of the induction is getting STABLE at a dose before tapering. YOU are doing great!!!! ASK any questions you have and honestly report any symptoms you have. Good night! Have a good sleep.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  10. #10
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Good Morning All,
    Iloerose thank you for your post last night. It put a big smile on my face knowing I'm on the right road. It really means alot. I fell asleep about 10 pm and woke up at 5 am. A little early but not unusual. Awoke with some anxiety and stomach discomfort. Nothing overwhelming by any means. I took my 1.5 mg dose at 6 am this morning. I am making this my regular time as I usually have to be to work by 730 am. I have decided for the time being I am going to split my dose, definitely more psychological than anything, knowing if I'm not feeling great help is on the way with my next dose. As of this post I'm am experiencing no w/d symptoms whatsoever. I really can't put into words how much I appreciate all the help you all have given me. Thank you so much. I hope you all are having a great morning. Talk to you soon.

    RJ
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  11. #11
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Sounds like you are well on your way, RJ. Thanks for the kind words. You are right that this is such a mental game. Have a great day!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  12. #12
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Good afternoon all,
    Quick question, I'm sure someone can help with. 3rd day of suboxone induction. Took 1st half of my 3 mg dose at 6 am. Took the other half at noon. Mild withdrawals now at 4pm, barely noticeable but a definite overall blah feeling. Even went on a two hour hike to try and shake it. Is this normal or do I need to increase my sub dose? Thank you in advance for any help.

    RJ

  13. #13
    MrJones is offline Member
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    Just wanted to congratulate you, and say it looks like you're on top of things fairly well.

    To answer your question, I can't really speak from experience, but I would say as long as you can fight through it and not have to blow off something important then hold off. I know its late now, so you've probably already made up your mind by now, but you were right before about how much of the fight is psychological.
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  14. #14
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    What are your symptoms now? If you are still awake. This could be just normal as the sub builds in your system.

  15. #15
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Mr Jones and Iloerose,
    Thank you both for responding. Decided not to mess up my induction dose or extend my taper plan by adding more sub. Pushed through and glad I did. The blahs turned to eh's and all is well. Except for some insomnia as is the reason I'm writing at this time lol. I look forward to talking to all of you tomorrow. Hopefully I get some sleep before then, hahaha. Have a great night!

    RJ
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  16. #16
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    RJ good to read where you were able to induct at 3 mg and that you are now on day 3 and that it looks like you are now stabilizing at 3 mg. I would dose at 3 mg a couple of more days and make sure that you are good and stable at that dose before considering to begin your taper. I am guessing that if you needed more then 3 mg you would not be feeling as well as you do now. Keep on posting on how you are feeling the next couple of days and any questions you have do not hesitate to ask. Hope you get a good night sleep and I will talk to you later.

    Alex
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  17. #17
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Good Afternoon All,
    First post today, sorry so late but work got in the way. I split my dose again today, had to be to work at 430 am so I took my 1st dose at 3 am. Will this mess anything up as I've been taking my other doses at 6am? Just took my second dose 10 minutes ago. I am feeling good, energetic to the point that I'm almost jittery. No more coffee for me for awhile, lol. Was wondering when you all think I should begin my taper as I want to be on subs for as short a time as possible. Now that I am feeling better I'm seriously considering giving the gym a try tomorrow. Used to love to go but lost myself somewhere along the way. (Haven't we all)
    Hope everyone is having a great day and hope to hear from you all soon.

    RJ
    P.S. Forgot to mention that after taking my dose I am spitting out any collected saliva after my 10 minute waiting period as this seems to help me to not get an upset stomach, I read somewhere that it helps. Is this advisable or am I in the wrong? Thanks in advance for all your help.

  18. #18
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ready2LiveAgain View Post
    Good Afternoon All,
    First post today, sorry so late but work got in the way. I split my dose again today, had to be to work at 430 am so I took my 1st dose at 3 am. Will this mess anything up as I've been taking my other doses at 6am? Just took my second dose 10 minutes ago. I am feeling good, energetic to the point that I'm almost jittery. No more coffee for me for awhile, lol. Was wondering when you all think I should begin my taper as I want to be on subs for as short a time as possible. Now that I am feeling better I'm seriously considering giving the gym a try tomorrow. Used to love to go but lost myself somewhere along the way. (Haven't we all)
    Hope everyone is having a great day and hope to hear from you all soon.

    RJ
    P.S. Forgot to mention that after taking my dose I am spitting out any collected saliva after my 10 minute waiting period as this seems to help me to not get an upset stomach, I read somewhere that it helps. Is this advisable or am I in the wrong? Thanks in advance for all your help.
    You definitely do NOT want to spit out the saliva. The med is in there and you won't be getting your full dose. Never spit. Wait for the film/tablet to completely dissolve and swallow everything. I know it gets kinda gross with the saliva build up, but it's absolutely necessary to do it that way. If you've been spitting out saliva, then it's very likely that you're not getting the full 3mg.

    When I used to dose, I'd sit on the couch and watch TV and try not to think about the dose dissolving. Eventually I got better at it to where there wasn't much saliva built up.

    Kat
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  19. #19
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Kat,
    I don't have so much of a problem with the saliva build up, it's after I swallow it I get a really bad stomach ache. I read somewhere that if you spit it out it helps to alleviate that (to be honest I only did it twice,figured I'd ask in lieu of continuing to do something wrong and now I'm glad I did) but I won't anymore I'll just live with a stomsch ache, its a lot better than full blown withdrawal, lol. I have a question for you too, did you have any withdrawal symptoms after the end of your taper? I hear some people saying that you still get withdrawl symptoms after you taper now and I was just wondering.

    Thank you for your quick response and all of your help up to this point, I really really do appreciate it, words fall short of how much it means to me. Talk to you soon.

    RJ

  20. #20
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    RJ while you want to try and take take your doses at the same time every day taking your morning dose today 3 hours earlier then when you have been taking it will not mess your taper up at all. As for the spitting out saliva if there is still any subs left over I would guess that you probably should not spit it out. I myself just would put my dose under my tongue and tried not to talk or spit for 2 or 3 minutes and after that I figured it had pretty well dissolved and I did not worry about it after that. I always waited about 15 minutes before I drank anything but after 2 or 3 minutes I just swallowed my saliva as usual. I think if I was you I would take 3 mg again tomorrow and then if you feel ok tomorrow on Tuesday it would be safe to begin your taper. I saw where you asked Kath if she had any WD symptoms when she jumped. I was on subs a total of 4 months myself and when I jumped I had very minor symptoms myself. I had to induct at a clinic and I did not know about the taper plan on here for my first month. I was still on 8 mg 5 weeks after I started subs and started the taper plan then. Since you inducted at 3 mg and are aware of the taper plan you can probably be off of subs in half the time I was. I can not promise you that you will have zero symptoms when you jump but if all goes well with your taper you should have a fairly easy time when you jump. I just bumped a thread up to the top of the page here in the sub forum that you might want to check out RJ. Its title is my plan to kick vicodin habit with suboxone by a member here name of Lincolnecho. It is a daily diary of his sub taper from start to finish. He inducted at 2 mg which is just a little less then you but it shows a good taper done properly. he was on subs a total of about 50 days and that was going down to a low dose of .18 with skip days at the end. Thought you might want to look it over. Will talk with you later.

    Alex

  21. #21
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    WD symptoms after the jump are usually worse for people who have been on Sub for years (like myself). But people who used Sub short-term (like Alex and Lincolnecho) have a pretty smooth jump off. I think it's safe to say you'll experience some mild symptoms, but nothing more.

    Thank you for the kind words. I like to give back. I was given so much support during my taper and I want to pay it forward.

    Have a good evening!
    Kat
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  22. #22
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Alex,
    Thank you so much! I in fact did find Lincolnechos thread because I saw my name in it. Lol. Thank you so much for your support, I read it over and am more excited than ever to get this started and leave this life for good. I am going to try to the best of my ability to record here my days as I taper. I also plan on paying forward all the help you have all given me as I will stay on the forum after my taper is complete to help and encourage others as you all have been encouraging and helping me. Don't know where I'd be without all of you. Probably out doing something I shouldn't. As all of you join my thread I feel as if I'm doing this for all of us now and there is no way I'm gonna let anyone down, most of all myself!!! Like I said before, words cannot do justice to the thanks and appreciation I have for all of you who have helped and encouraged me. I know I've gotten a little long winded but this is the best and most clear headed I've felt in a loooong time and I'm glad to see the old me returning, I've been gone a long time! Lol

    Thanks Again Alex,
    I will take my 3 mg dose tomorrow and then start my taper. I'm sure I will be full of questions as I go. Have a great night!

    RJ
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  23. #23
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Kat,
    I saw your last post after I had just sent mine. Glad to hear the withdrawals won't be anywhere near some of the things I've seen people say. And as far as paying it forward I somehow think you and I were writing those words at the exact same time. Like they say, great minds think alike. Thanks for all your help and have a great night! Talk to you soon.

    RJ
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  24. #24
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    RJ: If you follow the taper and follow your body, how you feel, you will be good to go. Sounds like you are getting stable at the 3mg. and that's GREAT. As far as paying it forward, I want to add something that people rarely think about: every post you make on your thread IS helping someone. Post your journey and questions: this is your thread. I'm so glad you're doing well!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  25. #25
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Good morning all,
    Unfortunately for me I think Kat was right on in her assessment about me spitting out any collected saliva.(stupid me) This morning I took my split dose (1.5 milligrams) just before 6 a.m. About an hour later was having withdrawal symptoms (clammy, cold sweats, general unwell feeling). Took another half milligram of my remaining dose for the day leaving me one milligram tonight. Now I feel fine. Like Kat said, I think spitting out the collected saliva yesterday reduced my dose and screwed me up.I am thinking I am going to stay on my induction dose another day, making a total of six days, see if I experience any more withdrawal symptoms, if not I will start my taper from there. Any opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Hope you are all having a great morning, talk to you soon.

    RJ

  26. #26
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    RJ: Sorry you felt symptoms this morning. There is nothing wrong with waiting another day as it's so important to be stable before you drop. You're doing very well!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  27. #27
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Iloerose,
    Thank you, knowing that extending another day is ok makes me feel better. I guess we all learn from our mistakes. Hopefully no more symptoms and start my taper wednesday. Thank you for all your help. Have a great day!!

    RJ

  28. #28
    MrJones is offline Member
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    Don't know if you smoke or not, but I heard (and ceased immediately) that smoking or drinking anything right after you dose will make you lose a little bit. I'd never thought about it, but it makes sense. I know I would wake up, dose, and light a cigarette; that was my morning routine. I can't really say I could tell a difference, but imo better safe than sorry.

  29. #29
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Mr Jones,
    Thanks for your reply. I don't smoke, my problem was that I was getting bad stomach aches after my sub dose. I read somewhere that if you spit out the saliva after waiting 10 minutes it would reduce gastric upset. Well I guess it reduced my dose as well so I guess I set myself back a day or 2. But this is a marathon not a sprint, so live and learn. I won't be making that mistake again. Have a great day!

    RJ
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  30. #30
    Ready2LiveAgain is offline Junior Member
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    Just wanted to say good night to all. Kept my sub dose at 3 mgs with no more w/d symptoms than the ones this morning. Keeping my fingers crossed that tomorrow all goes well so I can start my taper on wednesday.

    To all who have just joined the forum: welcome, you have come to the right place, there are many knowledgeable amazing people here that are more than willing to help you with any questions or problems you may have.

    To all like myself who have recently started their journey, stay strong, as I've read many times here on the forum do it right and you'll only have to do it once.

    And to all my new found friends, I say thank you, I wouldn't be where I am right now without your help and guidance.

    To everyone I wish you all a good night sleep and I'll talk to you all tomorrow.

    RJ
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