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Need Some Help and Support to Get off Suboxone
  1. #1
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Default Need Some Help and Support to Get off Suboxone

    Hi All,

    I don't know why but my first post was deleted. I read the rules and I don't believe I said anything that would be considered as against the rules. So I'm going to try again. And I did email support but it has been 3 days and I've not received any kind of reply explaining why my post was deleted.

    History:
    I've been on Suboxone for about 9 years as prescribed by my doctor to get off of my drug of choice. I've led a clean life since then which I am proud of but I feel the need to stop taking Subs. For the entire 9 years I've been taking (sublingual film) 16mg's per day; 8mg's in the morning and 8mg's in the evening.

    The past few months I've been having some issues that I believe are related to long term use of Subs. I get cold sweats almost regularly throughout the day. Some days are worse and some better. I get really bad upper abdominal pains almost daily. And in the last month or so I've been getting hit with waves of nausea and a continued feeling of queasiness.

    When I get the abdominal pains which are quite severe I take a couple Xanax (Prescribed .50mg) to relax my midsection which really helps a lot.

    To be honest I'm exhausted with all this. I came here to try to get some encouragement and advice.

    I found the sticky regarding tapering off and I have some questions.

    I tried tapering off myself a couple weeks ago. I started taking 4mg's in the morning and 8mg's in the evening which is a 25% reduction. I was going to do that for a couple weeks then go down another 25%, but after day 6 I started feeling pretty sick and since I had a commitment the following day I took my regular dose and have been since.

    So what I'm a bit dubious about is that the taper sticky says that if after 4 days you're feeling okay you should drop another 25% but I find that scary. Could it be that since I've been taking Subs for ~9 years that it would take me longer to adjust to the lower dosage?

    I would very much like to hear from folks who have tapered off of 16mg's+ and that have been taking Subs for longer than 5-7 years.
    My worst withdrawal symptom is violent vomiting that lasts for 2-3 days. I simply cannot handle that. Are there any supplements or medications I can take to battle the vomiting? Anything for restlessness and sleeplessness?

    I suppose that's it for now though I'm sure I'm forgetting some other questions.

    Thanks all in advance.
    S
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  2. #2
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome!

    16 mg is a lot of sub but what's done is done and you can still taper and be done with them once and for all. First mistake is that you should split your dose evenly dosing once in the morning and once about 10 hrs later, but not too close to bedtime. Taking it too late does interfere with sleep for some people.

    Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that the 25% reduction seemed to be too much especially because your dose is so high right now. You can try to reduce by less than the 25% if that will help. Your taper will take longer but really, who cares? Yes. Sometimes it does take longer than four days to stabilize after a reduction and it's perfectly OK, in fact important, to remain at that dose without reducing until you are stable.

    I would first try again to do the 25% reduction but split it evenly by taking 6mg in the morning and the other 6mg later in the day. You may feel some symptoms for a couple of days but they shouldn't be too bad. If this doesn't work, then try a smaller reduction just be sure to measure carefully so that you know how much you are taking and be consistent.

    There's probably only one way to find out if it's the subs that are beginning to give you trouble and that's to reduce and hang in there to see if you become stable even if it takes you a few days longer than four. If you are feeling sick now because you've been taking subs for so long, it'll probably take you some time to begin to feel better. At least until you get your dose down. Most people report feeling best once they're at a daily dose of 2mg or less per day.

    Just be consistent. Make a reduction, no matter what the percentage is, take that same dose and stick with it until you are stable. You may become stable sooner with some reductions while it may take you longer for others. It's OK. Listen to your body and only reduce when you're good and stable.

    Hope this makes sense and that it helps. Keep posting, ask questions and read, read, read. Others will be along to share their opinion but I think this is a good place to start. Good luck!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  3. #3
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    Welcome!
    First mistake is that you should split your dose evenly dosing once in the morning and once about 10 hrs later, but not too close to bedtime. Taking it too late does interfere with sleep for some people.

    <SNIP>
    Thank you for your reply Catrina. Can you please explain why taking an even amount is better than the way I did it as a 25% reduction in the morning and a full dose in the evening?

    One of the reasons I did it that way is that when I tried taking the smaller dose in the evening I was inundated with nightmares. This was one of my early side effects that's pretty much lasted until now if I take it more than 4 hours prior to bedtime. It seems that the closer I take it to bedtime I'm less likely to have these nightmares. And trust me these are extremely vivid nightmares that wake me up and make it very difficult to try and go back to sleep. There were many a time that it took me a minute or two to realize that what I was dreaming wasn't real.

    Sometimes I was close to dying while other times I was convicted of crimes I wasn't guilty of. Yet other times I dreamt I was in very life threatening prison situations. These are not dreams I want back in my psyche.

    One more question. How can I split the film so that I'm sure I'm taking 6mg's?

    Again...thank you for your replay.

    S
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  4. #4
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Hi All,

    I don't know why but my first post was deleted. I read the rules and I don't believe I said anything that would be considered as against the rules. So I'm going to try again. And I did email support but it has been 3 days and I've not received any kind of reply explaining why my post was deleted.

    History:
    I've been on Suboxone for about 9 years as prescribed by my doctor to get off of my drug of choice. I've led a clean life since then which I am proud of but I feel the need to stop taking Subs. For the entire 9 years I've been taking (sublingual film) 16mg's per day; 8mg's in the morning and 8mg's in the evening.

    The past few months I've been having some issues that I believe are related to long term use of Subs. I get cold sweats almost regularly throughout the day. Some days are worse and some better. I get really bad upper abdominal pains almost daily. And in the last month or so I've been getting hit with waves of nausea and a continued feeling of queasiness.

    When I get the abdominal pains which are quite severe I take a couple Xanax (Prescribed .50mg) to relax my midsection which really helps a lot.

    To be honest I'm exhausted with all this. I came here to try to get some encouragement and advice.

    I found the sticky regarding tapering off and I have some questions.

    I tried tapering off myself a couple weeks ago. I started taking 4mg's in the morning and 8mg's in the evening which is a 25% reduction. I was going to do that for a couple weeks then go down another 25%, but after day 6 I started feeling pretty sick and since I had a commitment the following day I took my regular dose and have been since.

    So what I'm a bit dubious about is that the taper sticky says that if after 4 days you're feeling okay you should drop another 25% but I find that scary. Could it be that since I've been taking Subs for ~9 years that it would take me longer to adjust to the lower dosage?

    I would very much like to hear from folks who have tapered off of 16mg's+ and that have been taking Subs for longer than 5-7 years.
    My worst withdrawal symptom is violent vomiting that lasts for 2-3 days. I simply cannot handle that. Are there any supplements or medications I can take to battle the vomiting? Anything for restlessness and sleeplessness?

    I suppose that's it for now though I'm sure I'm forgetting some other questions.

    Thanks all in advance.
    S
    Hello again! I left you a long detailed reply shortly after you posted your original thread. I'm not sure if you were able to read it before your thread got deleted? I would guess that your original thread was deleted because you mentioned your drug of choice? Mentioning illegal/illicit drugs are against forum rules.

    As Cat has already mentioned, 16mg of sub a day is a lot, in fact it is too much! With sub, less is more and people generally feel better on low sub doses. It's not your fault, most doctors who prescribe subs do not know any better! Your other and quite frankly your bigger challenge is how long you have been on subs, 9 years is an awfully long time to be on subs! It's going to take you a bit longer to get off the subs than most because of how long you have been taking them? In my opinion I would reduce by less than 25% and/or wait longer than 4 days in between reductions? Possibly do a reduction everyday 7-10 days instead of 4? This is a slow process, don't rush it!

    Also Cat is correct in saying that you should split your dose evenly. The reason to split your dose evenly is to keep an level amount of sub in your system, by doing so it will hopefully keep you feeling your best on your current dosage.

    I would also venture to say that you could probably drop down to 8mg/day right away. Even 8mg/day is a lot so it should hold you over just fine and you may even feel better on that lower amount? You should continue to dose twice a day 8-10 hours apart. For example, your dosing schedule would be 4mg at 8am and 4mg at 5pm for a total of 8mg/day.

    Subs have been known to cause stomach/GI problems, hopefully this will improve as you get down in dose? Drink lots of water, stay well hydrated!

    Here's a video on how to accurately cut the suboxone strips from a drugs.com member named HarrySmooth - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZ5ATKb-LE

    I'll leave a message for Randy to stop by your thread, he'll have some solid advice for you so definitely listen to him. Keep us posted on everything? I wish you the very best of luck... God bless us all!

    PS
    What's your detailed history with the xanax?
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  5. #5
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Ricky that video helped for sure. I just took my first 6mg dose. I'll continue with the same this evening. I'll keep the thread updated as necessary.

    Thanks again for your help. And yes luckily I was able to read your reply before the previous thread was deleted. By the way I know I mentioned my drug of choice but I only mentioned it as a point of history. I know you can't discuss illegal drugs but I think you'll agree I didn't post it as a discussion about it. I for one think it's important for members to know what someone's history is to give the best advice, right?

    Also as for my Xanax use. I take it for anxiety. I take 1 to 2 .5 tabs as needed for the anxiety. Sometimes I go weeks without taking it and sometimes I need it for a few days at a time. This all started about 3-4 years ago when at times anxiety prevented me from leaving the house. My doctor had me try other anti-anxiety meds but the side effects were not good. One of which was suicidal thoughts.

    Regards,
    S

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Hello again! I left you a long detailed reply shortly after you posted your original thread. I'm not sure if you were able to read it before your thread got deleted? I would guess that your original thread was deleted because you mentioned your drug of choice? Mentioning illegal/illicit drugs are against forum rules.

    As Cat has already mentioned, 16mg of sub a day is a lot, in fact it is too much! With sub, less is more and people generally feel better on low sub doses. It's not your fault, most doctors who prescribe subs do not know any better! Your other and quite frankly your bigger challenge is how long you have been on subs, 9 years is an awfully long time to be on subs! It's going to take you a bit longer to get off the subs than most because of how long you have been taking them? In my opinion I would reduce by less than 25% and/or wait longer than 4 days in between reductions? Possibly do a reduction everyday 7-10 days instead of 4? This is a slow process, don't rush it!

    Also Cat is correct in saying that you should split your dose evenly. The reason to split your dose evenly is to keep an level amount of sub in your system, by doing so it will hopefully keep you feeling your best on your current dosage.

    I would also venture to say that you could probably drop down to 8mg/day right away. Even 8mg/day is a lot so it should hold you over just fine and you may even feel better on that lower amount? You should continue to dose twice a day 8-10 hours apart. For example, your dosing schedule would be 4mg at 8am and 4mg at 5pm for a total of 8mg/day.

    Subs have been known to cause stomach/GI problems, hopefully this will improve as you get down in dose? Drink lots of water, stay well hydrated!

    Here's a video on how to accurately cut the suboxone strips from a drugs.com member named HarrySmooth - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZ5ATKb-LE

    I'll leave a message for Randy to stop by your thread, he'll have some solid advice for you so definitely listen to him. Keep us posted on everything? I wish you the very best of luck... God bless us all!

    PS
    What's your detailed history with the xanax?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-23-2017 at 04:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    One more question. Is it safe to cut up a bunch of films ahead of time? In other words will they stay fresh and not messed up if I slice them and keep them in the foil pack they come in?

    Thanks!!
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  7. #7
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    One more question. Is it safe to cut up a bunch of films ahead of time? In other words will they stay fresh and not messed up if I slice them and keep them in the foil pack they come in?

    Thanks!!

    Hi Shutter Bug, and welcome to you!

    Ricky asked me to respond to you and I happy to do so. You've already received Amazing advice from both Ricky and Cat and I don;t have much more to offer. I did spot something that may have a bearing on how you're feeling right now.

    But first, yes, it's perfectly ok to cut up your sub doses now and place then in the foil wrapper for safe keeping. Close the wrapper tightly by folding over the edge and maybe securing it with a paper clip or other object. It will be fine for later use.

    I see you're taking Xanax along with the sub. Any good doctor, or sub doctor would NEVER prescribe the two together. They do not mix well. Benzo's are scary enough by themselves, but combine wthem with a drug as powerful as Suboxone and you have trouble possibly brewing. And the Xanax is most likely the reason you're not feeling so hot.

    You mentioned taking it on an "as needed" basis. You said: "I take 1 to 2 .5 tabs as needed for the anxiety. Sometimes I go weeks without taking it and sometimes I need it for a few days at a time". I fully believe you're in benzo wd's some of the time you're taking it and that's the reason for the symptoms you describe. It all makes perfect sense to me that you would feel ok when you take the Xanax and feel lousy when you don't. It's in your system and then out so you feel wd symptoms from the Xanax.

    Just how bad do you really feel you need the Xanax? You either should be taking it regularily or not at all in my opinion. If you want off the Xanax you should NEVER stop it abruptly, it's very dangerous to do that. It needs to be tapered very slow and steady. If you feel you need it then take the lowest possible dose each day. But again, Suboxone and Benxo's do not go together.

    I agree 100% with all the info you've received from Ricky and Cat. Following their advice will help you through this. If you have questions ask them. I'll check back later. Take care, everything going to be fine.

    Randy

    P.S. One other thing....I fully agree with Ricky that you can easily drop to 8mg per day of sub right now. Suboxone is approximately 30 times stronger than Morphine so a little goes a long, long way. You should not feel this reduction. If you think you do it's just your head messing with you I promise. You'll discover that once you're down to the 1mg to 2mg range that it will do the same as 16mg does. Wait and see. Happens all the time. Doctors just don't understand this drug very well. No one on earht needs 16mgs a day of sub. No one.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-23-2017 at 07:27 AM.

  8. #8
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    One more question. Is it safe to cut up a bunch of films ahead of time? In other words will they stay fresh and not messed up if I slice them and keep them in the foil pack they come in?

    Thanks!!
    Good Morning,

    Absolutely. There is no harm in cutting them in advance. Because you'll be making reductions, it's best to put what you've cut in a separate old pill bottle or piece of foil and mark it so that you'll know the size of each piece. You're apt to have different sized pieces as your doses change.

    Don't worry too much about your original thread disappearing. Sometimes it happens for no reason at all. Every now and again, there will be a day when every single one of my posts will disappear and I've said nothing wrong. It's happened to others too. A glitch, I assume. If it was because you mentioned a street drug, for whatever reason, that may have been it too. The moderators obviously don't read every single post here and so they must have filters set up for the site and it will catch swear words or other words that violate the rules and poof! Gone regardless of the context. You're right, though. It is important to know as much history as possible including what your doc was and how long you were using it before you began your journey. It is frustrating sometimes but it is what it is.

    Ricky is right and I agree that you could probably reduce right down to 8mg/day but I also know how scary that is for you and is why I didn't mention it. Hopefully this reduction will go well for you and your next dose is going to be 9mg/day. Soon enough, right? I'm betting you're going to begin to feel much better once your dose is lower but as much as I hate to say it, there are people who struggle with stomach issues the entire time. Look for Uncle Leo or Ming. These are two members who had GI issues and Ming has some suggestions that helped her. Uncle Leo followed her suggestions and it helped him too.

    The reason we recommend not dosing too close to bedtime is that subs do interfere with sleep for some people. Obviously that's not the case for you. In any event, try to dose 2 or 3 hours before you go to bed and if you're OK, great but if your nightmares kick up then I don't see any harm in dosing closer to bedtime. It's an individual thing. However, in that case pay closer attention to being sure your doses are taken 8-10 hours apart even if that means that you don't dose first thing in the morning. Once again because your dose is still so high, I doubt that you'll have much trouble tweaking the times you dose. Once your dose is down to around 1mg/day we recommend that you begin to dose only once a day. The purpose for this is to begin to break the habit of dosing and make no mistake, that in itself is a huge habit. I recognized this myself after having been clean and off of everything for a few weeks. I felt fine, absolutely fine and one day I caught myself reaching for some Excedrin and realized that I didn't even need them. I just felt this need to take something. Anything! I put the bottle back and just became aware and anytime I got that impulse, I'd just stop myself for a minute and think about whether I really needed them or not. Most times I didn't.

    Keep posting!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  9. #9
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Hey guys, I appreciate the concern regarding the Xanax but I think you may have misunderstood. I never take for more than 2-3 days at any time. Then it's usually weeks or a month (and sometimes longer) before I take it again for anywhere between 1 and 2-3 days. Then again weeks before I take it again. As far as Xanax goes .5 is a low dosage.

    I simply cannot believe that taking it as I do that I would get physically dependent on it. This is something that I'm very aware of and make sure I take no more than 3 days at a clip.

    I don't know, maybe I'm wrong but from everything I've read online and answers I've gotten from psychiatrists I feel pretty confident that I'm taking it as safely as possible.

    Again, I take it for anxiety. Something I've been dealing with for the better part of about 20 years. I didn't start taking it because Subs reasons.

    I truly appreciate all of your concerns but unless I start taking it daily for weeks or months I honestly don't think I'm having any kind of WD symptoms from the Xanax.

    Regards,
    S

  10. #10
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Oh and BTW I took my 6mg aftoornoon dose of Subs. Obviously so far so good. I'll keep updating as the days wear on.

  11. #11
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Day 2: 6mg's in the morning, so far so good. I'm really looking forward to getting down to the minimal dosage and still feel good.

    Thank you all for your help

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    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Day 2 evening dose 6mg, so far so good. I think doing it this way, in other words a reduction of 2mg in the morning and 2mg in the evening is probably the way to go.

    So far all the suggestions I've received here are spot on!!!

    Thank you all with all my heart. I really can't wait to go through the process and finally get off this "wonder" drug. I really wish I knew then (~9 years ago) what I know now. I would have been off this >>>> a very long time ago.

    Thank you all so very much!!!

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    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Okay...day 3 evening 6mg and all's well. So far I must say that I feel pretty good. So far not WD symptoms of any kind. Curious to see what happens days 5 and 6. I do plan to gow down to 4mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening starting Sunday. I guess that'll be the big test. If days 5.6.7 go well I will be thrilled.

    Once again...thank you all for your suggestions. Though I do feel a bit lonely here. I would love to hear from some of you guys
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  14. #14
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Okay...day 3 evening 6mg and all's well. So far I must say that I feel pretty good. So far not WD symptoms of any kind. Curious to see what happens days 5 and 6. I do plan to gow down to 4mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening starting Sunday. I guess that'll be the big test. If days 5.6.7 go well I will be thrilled.

    Once again...thank you all for your suggestions. Though I do feel a bit lonely here. I would love to hear from some of you guys
    Ask and you shall receive!! lol Just checking in on you. So good that things are going well and I expect that it will continue. I don't think you're going to have any trouble at all dropping to 8mg.

    I feel like I should warn you that the weekends are always very slow around here and pick back up on Monday. I suppose family is around and you know how it is. I've been around here for over seven years and still, I like to post when I have some privacy. It makes it hard when people are jabbering in my ear. I also noticed for the past couple of weeks there are fewer posters. That happens too. Maybe it's the end of the summer and everyone is just busy doing their thing. It ebbs and wanes. I'll watch for you because I do care that you're doing well. I don't always have the best advice but I try and sometimes it just feels good to get a new message. I remember how important it was for me. It was this Forum that motivated me and kept me motivated. It helps to know that we're not alone and there's people out there who know exactly how we feel. (Enter meetings here ).

    Keep posting. You're doing fantastic! Not so scary after all. Right?

    Peace,

    Cat

  15. #15
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Okay...day 3 evening 6mg and all's well. So far I must say that I feel pretty good. So far not WD symptoms of any kind. Curious to see what happens days 5 and 6. I do plan to gow down to 4mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening starting Sunday. I guess that'll be the big test. If days 5.6.7 go well I will be thrilled.

    Once again...thank you all for your suggestions. Though I do feel a bit lonely here. I would love to hear from some of you guys
    You're doing GREAT! Like Cat mentioned, you should have no problems dropping down to 8mg/day but after that drop I would stick to 25% reductions every 7-10 days. Remember, because you have been on subs a long time it is necessary to take this taper a little bit slower than normal. When it comes to tapering, slow and steady wins the race! DO NOT rush the process!

    Equally as important as splitting your daily dose evenly is to take your doses at the same time everyday 8-10 hours apart! What's your current dosing schedule?

    Also, it's very important to drink lots of water, subs can dehydrate you. You got this, you're going to be just fine!

    Keep us posted? Take care... God bless us all!

  16. #16
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    So I'm deep into day 4 and so far it's okay. The only thing I feel is a bit of impatience and agitation, though that can just be the day. I guess the real test will be tomorrow. I think I'm going to stay on the 6mg am and pm. If I feel good by tomorrow night then I'll drop another 2mg in the morning and evening on Monday.

    So far though I'm feeling pretty confident. I'm just hoping for the best. I really can't wait to get off Subs altogether. It's been way too long to be on this stuff.

    I'll keep updating throughout my experience.
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  17. #17
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    So I'm deep into day 4 and so far it's okay. The only thing I feel is a bit of impatience and agitation, though that can just be the day. I guess the real test will be tomorrow. I think I'm going to stay on the 6mg am and pm. If I feel good by tomorrow night then I'll drop another 2mg in the morning and evening on Monday.

    So far though I'm feeling pretty confident. I'm just hoping for the best. I really can't wait to get off Subs altogether. It's been way too long to be on this stuff.

    I'll keep updating throughout my experience.
    Good!! You'll get there. Be patient and you'll be better than just fine. Keep posting.

    Peace,

    Cat

  18. #18
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Well, since I've been feeling okay for the most part I decided to drop down to 4mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening.

    It's a bit scary as I do feel some agitation and my appetite is a bit wonky. Whatever I eat has to be either salty or sweet which aren't the healthiest things to eat. But since it's going to be temporary I'll be okay with it.

    The next 2-3 days should be interesting. I'll keep you guys updated. I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't scared.
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  19. #19
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Well, since I've been feeling okay for the most part I decided to drop down to 4mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening.

    It's a bit scary as I do feel some agitation and my appetite is a bit wonky. Whatever I eat has to be either salty or sweet which aren't the healthiest things to eat. But since it's going to be temporary I'll be okay with it.

    The next 2-3 days should be interesting. I'll keep you guys updated. I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't scared.


    Great job reducing your dose to this point and getting that very high dose down. The mental part of this, or head games can hold us back sometimes. A positive frame of mind can allow you to proceed successfully.

    I promise you that 8mg is still a whopper of a dose of sub. It really is. And I also promise you as I did in my previous post that once you're down to 1mg or 2mg you'll discover that amount will do exactly the same thing as 16mg did. It's hard to believe perhaps, but it's positively true. The lower the dose the better you'll feel on Suboxone.

    Keep up the good work.

    Randy
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  20. #20
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Great job reducing your dose to this point and getting that very high dose down. The mental part of this, or head games can hold us back sometimes. A positive frame of mind can allow you to proceed successfully.

    I promise you that 8mg is still a whopper of a dose of sub. It really is. And I also promise you as I did in my previous post that once you're down to 1mg or 2mg you'll discover that amount will do exactly the same thing as 16mg did. It's hard to believe perhaps, but it's positively true. The lower the dose the better you'll feel on Suboxone.

    Keep up the good work.

    Randy
    Thanks for the encouraging words Randy. They are appreciated and needed at times.

    So far things are going well. Today was my 2nd full day at 8mg and all things considered I feel okay. I still feel myself getting agitated and my anger fuse is a bit shorter. On the positive side some of the symptoms I was feeling while at 16mg seem to have either dissipated or gone away. For the last 3-4 months I was feeling awful and I 100% believe it was because of long term use of Subs. Now after only dropping to 8mg I do feel better and it's giving me even more motivation to keep going and eventually stop taking Subs altogether.

    As you said though, I'm not going to rush. I'll stay on 8mg for a couple weeks to give my body time to adjust. What do you guys think my next drop should be?

    Thanks again to all of you for the encouragement and advice you've all given me

    S
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  21. #21
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Thanks for the encouraging words Randy. They are appreciated and needed at times.

    So far things are going well. Today was my 2nd full day at 8mg and all things considered I feel okay. I still feel myself getting agitated and my anger fuse is a bit shorter. On the positive side some of the symptoms I was feeling while at 16mg seem to have either dissipated or gone away. For the last 3-4 months I was feeling awful and I 100% believe it was because of long term use of Subs. Now after only dropping to 8mg I do feel better and it's giving me even more motivation to keep going and eventually stop taking Subs altogether.

    As you said though, I'm not going to rush. I'll stay on 8mg for a couple weeks to give my body time to adjust. What do you guys think my next drop should be?

    Thanks again to all of you for the encouragement and advice you've all given me

    S
    You're right that you don't want to rush but if after four or five days you're still doing well, I just know that you could drop to 6 mg/day. 3mg in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. In any event, that's your next dose. A reduction of 25% would bring you to 6mg/day. This is a motivation so keep doing it right and you're going to continue to do great!

    Nicely done! Glad you were willing to have some faith and listen to Randy. We won't steer you wrong and that's a promise!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  22. #22
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Thanks for the encouraging words Randy. They are appreciated and needed at times.

    So far things are going well. Today was my 2nd full day at 8mg and all things considered I feel okay. I still feel myself getting agitated and my anger fuse is a bit shorter. On the positive side some of the symptoms I was feeling while at 16mg seem to have either dissipated or gone away. For the last 3-4 months I was feeling awful and I 100% believe it was because of long term use of Subs. Now after only dropping to 8mg I do feel better and it's giving me even more motivation to keep going and eventually stop taking Subs altogether.

    As you said though, I'm not going to rush. I'll stay on 8mg for a couple weeks to give my body time to adjust. What do you guys think my next drop should be?

    Thanks again to all of you for the encouragement and advice you've all given me

    S


    Hey Shutter -

    Spend at least 4 full days on each dose and if you're stable and feeling no rough symptoms then go ahead and reduce by 25% to the next dose. On the other hand if after 4 days you do feel some symptoms then spend a few days longer on that particular dose. No need to remain on a dose 2 weeks if you don't have to. You'll keep adding sub to your system unnecessarily.

    Randy

  23. #23
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    You're right that you don't want to rush but if after four or five days you're still doing well, I just know that you could drop to 6 mg/day. 3mg in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. In any event, that's your next dose. A reduction of 25% would bring you to 6mg/day. This is a motivation so keep doing it right and you're going to continue to do great!

    Nicely done! Glad you were willing to have some faith and listen to Randy. We won't steer you wrong and that's a promise!

    Peace,

    Cat
    Hey Cat, so after all my talk about feeling well and all, after I posted my reply I broke out in a nasty sweat that lasted close to an hour. Also got a little queasy but that didn't last too long. And I literally didn't sleep all night. After my wife left for work I took a shower and still couldn't sleep. Finally fell asleep around noon until about 5:00. Hopefully tonight will go better.

    If not I have plenty of work to do on my websites so that can keep me busy for a while.


    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey Shutter -

    Spend at least 4 full days on each dose and if you're stable and feeling no rough symptoms then go ahead and reduce by 25% to the next dose. On the other hand if after 4 days you do feel some symptoms then spend a few days longer on that particular dose. No need to remain on a dose 2 weeks if you don't have to. You'll keep adding sub to your system unnecessarily.

    Randy
    Thanks Randy, I'll take your advice. I'll give it two more days which will make it 5 days on 8mg. I know I'm repeating myself a bit but I am so motivated to get off this >>>>. My wife and I want to travel to Europe and other places and the last I want is to worry about losing my medication and then trying to find it. That's a total deal breaker. But the most important reason is I just want to feel good and I need my mind to be sharper.

    That's one thing I definitely noticed over the last couple of years. My mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. Not to mention depression and apathy. Man it's been a rough couple of years.

    Anyway...I'll keep posting and reading all replies.

    S
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  24. #24
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Well I think that this was just a blip on your way to adjusting to your new lower dose. It sounds to me that that's exactly what this is. Give it another couple of days and once you have two or three good days in a row, then you'll be good to reduce again. These are common symptoms and you may experience them again at some point. Some reductions go better than others but so long as you remain committed and are determined to stick it out, it should pass in a short amount of time.

    Just think about how much progress you have made already and although you had some minor symptoms, they didn't stop you or discourage you and that's exactly what you're looking for. There just isn't any way to get clean without some fall out and this, I'm sure you agree, is a whole lot better than having to endure a cold turkey jump. Now you know that you can handle this and so long as you go slow and steady, you'll be done in a matter of weeks when not so long ago you didn't even know where to begin or to know that you could do it. You were frozen and place and not feeling well. This is wayyyyy better! This is so good. Start thinking about travel plans.

    You're doing great!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  25. #25
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    So...today is my 4th full day on 8mg and I'm barely making it from dose to dose. For most of the years that I've been taking Subs I try to take them 12 hours apart. So get up between 5:00-5:30 every day which is when I take my morning dose so I take my evening dose around the same time.

    The last couple of hours yesterday and today have been white nucklers but I did make it. Honestly though I was very close to taking a 2mg slice both yesterday and today but I don't want to take any steps backwards at this point. I'm pretty amazed that I've been able to get down to 8mg in such a short time. I'll stay here for a couple more days and see how it goes before trying another reduction.

    The sleeplessness is terrible. Last night I slept for about two hours whereas the night before I literally did not sleep for a minute. I finally crashed sometime before noon for a few hours.

    I guess that's about it for now. I'll keep updating whether positive or negative. Let's just hope for positive

    S
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  26. #26
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    So...today is my 4th full day on 8mg and I'm barely making it from dose to dose. For most of the years that I've been taking Subs I try to take them 12 hours apart. So get up between 5:00-5:30 every day which is when I take my morning dose so I take my evening dose around the same time.

    The last couple of hours yesterday and today have been white nucklers but I did make it. Honestly though I was very close to taking a 2mg slice both yesterday and today but I don't want to take any steps backwards at this point. I'm pretty amazed that I've been able to get down to 8mg in such a short time. I'll stay here for a couple more days and see how it goes before trying another reduction.

    The sleeplessness is terrible. Last night I slept for about two hours whereas the night before I literally did not sleep for a minute. I finally crashed sometime before noon for a few hours.

    I guess that's about it for now. I'll keep updating whether positive or negative. Let's just hope for positive

    S
    UGH! I'm sorry this is tough right now. Hang on tight and you absolutely will stabilize. This one, I think, is the big hurdle and once you get past this, and you will, you will begin to stabilize more quickly. We always hope to stabilize in about four days after a reduction but sometimes it takes a day longer and sometimes two. Obviously, this one is taking you even longer than that but that's perfectly OK. Well, aside from the fact that it really sux. . Just know that so long as you hang in there it's going to be OK. Once you do get past this one, take a few days to catch your breath but not so long that you lose your motivation. Ya know?

    I can't scroll down. Can you remind me how many days it's been that you've been on 8mg? I hope things get better soon and I think they will. It shouldn't be this hard moving forward. Please do keep posting to let us know how you're doing. I sure hope that you have a better night tonight.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  27. #27
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    OK. I see it. This is your 4th day at 8mg. Hopefully you'll feel better tomorrow and won't have such a tough time making it before your afternoon dose and your sleep will improve. Fingers crossed that you are very near to being stable!

    Peace,

    Cat

  28. #28
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    OK. I see it. This is your 4th day at 8mg. Hopefully you'll feel better tomorrow and won't have such a tough time making it before your afternoon dose and your sleep will improve. Fingers crossed that you are very near to being stable!

    Peace,

    Cat
    Thanks Cat, I love your replies as they do make me feel better and help stay positive. Right now I'm actually feeling pretty good. My previous post was about 15 minutes after my afternoon dose so it was still working through my system. Once I stabilized I was able to take a deep breath so to speak. Now I'm just hoping I can get at least 3-4 hours of sleep. Just FYI I've had sleep problems for a few years. If I get 5 I'm good. If I get 6 that's awesome and anything over that is extremely rare. I believe that is also one of the side effects of long term Subs use. And even if I get 5-6 hours I wake up 3-4 times a night. And yes if you're wondering I know I have sleep apnea.

    Right now though I want to concentrate on getting off Subs. I know that it has affected me in many different ways. For example I used to be an athlete and was in good shape into my early 40's. Once I started taking Subs I slowly started gaining weight and eventually lost any desire to work out. Earlier this summer I bought a nice mountain bike but after trying for about a month I couldn't gain any traction. Again I blame the Subs. I think this "medication" does a lot more damage than people realize.

    And yes I realize I'm getting older and my body will react differently than even 10 years ago, but, I should have made some gains after a month. I did not. I didn't even lose 2LBs. That's not normal.

    Anyway, I'll see how I feel by tomorrow afternoon. I am looking forward to my next reduction.

    S
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  29. #29
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutter_bug View Post
    Thanks Cat, I love your replies as they do make me feel better and help stay positive. Right now I'm actually feeling pretty good. My previous post was about 15 minutes after my afternoon dose so it was still working through my system. Once I stabilized I was able to take a deep breath so to speak. Now I'm just hoping I can get at least 3-4 hours of sleep. Just FYI I've had sleep problems for a few years. If I get 5 I'm good. If I get 6 that's awesome and anything over that is extremely rare. I believe that is also one of the side effects of long term Subs use. And even if I get 5-6 hours I wake up 3-4 times a night. And yes if you're wondering I know I have sleep apnea.

    Right now though I want to concentrate on getting off Subs. I know that it has affected me in many different ways. For example I used to be an athlete and was in good shape into my early 40's. Once I started taking Subs I slowly started gaining weight and eventually lost any desire to work out. Earlier this summer I bought a nice mountain bike but after trying for about a month I couldn't gain any traction. Again I blame the Subs. I think this "medication" does a lot more damage than people realize.

    And yes I realize I'm getting older and my body will react differently than even 10 years ago, but, I should have made some gains after a month. I did not. I didn't even lose 2LBs. That's not normal.

    Anyway, I'll see how I feel by tomorrow afternoon. I am looking forward to my next reduction.

    S
    Absolutely to the sleep thing. Newly clean (I cold turkeyed) I got zero sleep during detox (the first week). The following week, I was comfortable but got nothing more than a few 15 or 20 minute increments until I would just give up and watch a movie or something. Between weeks 3 and 4, I began to sleep 3,maybe 4 hours. Soooo frustrating. Before too much longer I was getting 5 or 6 but it was still interrupted. Not long after, I began only waking once or twice but I was still so tired and wishing for more.

    What I began to understand was that my sober sleep was much different than when I was using. When I was using, I needed far less sleep and sober, even though I began sleeping more than I had in years, I was so tired that I thought I needed more. It wasn't more sleep that I needed, I just needed to get used to the kind of sleep I was getting. It was different. Obviously, I did get accustomed to it. My last Day 1 was in January 2010. Know how much sleep I get these days? Five or 6 hours. lol As I looked back, I realized that's all I ever got before I began to use. I have never needed much sleep and that's what I need.

    Getting and staying clean requires that we get to know ourselves all over again. Time passes and we are different but there are many things that are the same. We just forgot.

    I was quite the opposite where weight is concerned. When using, I had no appetite and no matter what I ate, I'd lose weight. Dangerously, actually. I not only found sobriety, but within a couple of months, I had also found a not so comfortable 20 pounds and I'm a shorty--barely 5'2. These days, I gain weight by watching someone else eat. Of course a part of that is that I'm nearly three decades older than when I picked up that first dang pill. Opiates (including subs) messes with our metabolism and that's not just a guess. It's fact.

    Get back on your bike and begin to pedal away to begin conditioning. It'll help with any symptoms that you're dealing with after a reduction. Once you're done with your taper, good eating habits and exercise will take care of the sack of potatoes you've found. The benefit will be two-fold. One of the best things you'll be able to do for your recovery is to replace bad habits with new, good habits. It can become a new very healthy obsession and that's GOOD! I hate exercise (HATE IT!) but once I got my energy back (and the 20 lbs) I began to walk obsessively doing a bit more than 5 miles a day. I know for some that isn't much but for me, trust me it was like the Boston Marathon.

    You're going to do great. I can feel it.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  30. #30
    Shutter_bug is offline Junior Member
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    So...much better night. I managed to get about 41/2 hours of sleep and didn't feel the withdrawal symptoms like the night before. Woke at just after 5:00 and was still feeling okay. Took my 4mg AM dose and I'm good to go. I'm still going to give my body a break and see how I feel tomorrow. If all goes well maybe my next reduction will be on Saturday. Except if the grand kids are going to do sleepover here then I may just wait until Monday. I need to be on my toes with them around, if ya know what I mean?

    I'll check in later,

    S
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