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  1. #31
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay: dude, slow down some. If you're stable on .75 let's start there, but let's get a starting dose going so that you can get off this stuff. You need to be on a stable dose especially at this low level or you will never get tapered off this, you will keep willy-nilly dropping doses and then taking a "sliver" when you feel uncomfortable, that is not good. Get on a steady dose.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  2. #32
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Question: Xanax is the devil itself. If you think coming off of subs is bad, stick with the xanax for a bit. I don't care what anyone says: xanax is probably the hardest thing to detox. If you are feeling better and don't need it, don't take it. The less xanax you take the better, it's highly addictive. Take it only if you have to. Let that little bit of xanax you have be the last of it.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  3. #33
    questions89 is offline New Member
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    so ive been told. ive taken it before when i would take pretty much anything, but it would be a one day thing every 3-4 months, if that so i dont have a ton of experience. my habit while obviously not good, was something i had under control to the point that it wasnt difficult to transition to suboxone mentally, but in the past 3.5 weeks ive tapered my sub use from abt 2 mg a day to now a spec (literally ive used a 8mg strip for 14 days and i really just want to end the cycle. today ive taken 3 .5 mg xanax (1 am, 1 mid day, just took the 3rd). still feel some anxiety in my stomach, but i have melatonin to help sleep and ill go for a run/workout to tire myself out some more. just cant wait for the day i can wake up an feel like a human again, although 3 weeks with no opiates is a good start. thanks for the advice. i understand how addictive it can be, just hoping 4-5 days wont ruin me. thanks for the response.

  4. #34
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    4-5 days won't ruin you. You will wake up and feel human again. Keep up the exercise, plenty of water and pure fruit juices, eat and if you can't try ensure or something on that order. Stay strong: you may want to start a thread so we're not hi-jacking on Jay's, LOL. Plus more people will see your posts. If you need help with that, let me know. There is a thread starter at the top of the board.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  5. #35
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Hey i wrote you a response and don't know if it went thru erlier....anyway ya i can't say nay or yay on the zanex... i obviously have the same question idea... i gotta remeber I'm a drug addict so taking a benzo responsably is reely hard too do... in theory it could work perhaps for sub withdrawal but rebound anxiety and insomnia off that stuff is crazy.... if you read thru my posts you'll see me all over the place with anxiety.... so at least keep that in mind...that's just my experience perhaps.... i get drug tested so i gotta be careful they do a 12 panel now i believe test for both benzo and bupe.... i honestly don't know how I passed it but i did...but i keep rolling the dice ill get thrown in jail... suboxone is not on the approved medications list so i am NOT supposed to be on it.... anyways I'm starting to think i just gotta man up here and just quit taking all of it /any of it... i just gotta taper a little quicker then i would like... and deal wit watever depression anxiety insomnia fatigue etc.... i have one choice and that's either get clean at home or get clean in jail....either way i gotta do it.....anyway sounds like we think alike so hope that helps ya... not tellin ya wat to do just posting my experience to help myself or anyone who pays attention too it...good luck too you and the others who gave advice have sound advice and is helping me...they can see things we can't due to clouded judgment (when you take these substances your mind isn't crystal clear no effing way)... by your mind i mean my mind... I'm an addict..and tend to ramble as well...lol... anyways whatever you decide to do lemme know how it goes i read thru a lot of these and gain perspective.. peace and lov jay

  6. #36
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay since your working with 8 mg strips next you might try to drop to .66. Cut a 8 mg strip in 4 pieces and then you will have 4 2 mg pieces. Take a 2 mg piece and cut it into 3 pieces and you will have 3 .667 pieces. This would have been a good drop from .8. Best of luck and will talk to you later.

    Alex

  7. #37
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Alex....i will do excactly that on sunday...that's the day i make my drops... I'm done not listening too you guys... i came here for advice right? Just the addict in me wants to do it every which way till sunday...ya know... it honestly wasn't bad at 1Mg and above its just these low doses i need help with... i think my brain freaks out sometimes cause it ain't getting what its used too....anyways I'm for sure 100 percent gonna take your advice and try .66 thanks again for your help... and to the other poster i hope i didnnt sound like i thought it was unlikely for you to perhaps use the benzo responsably... i was refering to myself when i was talking about my clouded judgment...its the addict in me..only way i can explain it and frankly have been gettin a little ticked off at that part of myself so don't take anything i say personally i am not judging anyone...but am looking at myself and my drug seeking behavoiur.... anyways yep the insomnia back so goin a little post happy here..lol... anyway... .66 sounds like a plan ...peace jay

  8. #38
    jayryan is offline Member
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    I know I'm posting a lot, just got a lot goin on tryin to simplify..
    a. cutting down to .66 Monday

    b. been waiting until i wake up naturally to take dose to break habits a little

    c.trying to fall asleep naturally lastnite took one cloninine one moltrin and half an otc sleeping pill...i had a killer migrane and didn't sleep until after 5am!

    D. last problem...as u know i now have to take 12 panel and i beleive it uncludes bupe..they a huge herion epidimic where I'm at (detroit) so they gettin keen on it...
    last test i passed with flying colers even tho i had taken bupeneforine and etizolam....these are generally both fly under the radar on simpler tests but not the 12 panel ...
    long story short i have to ensure i pass ALL drug tests..monthly random and weekly tests at random... its pretty hardcore probation i been on since last year...my point is:

    I Been doing some research on line and the current cut off apears to be either 5Ng/ml or 10ng/ml....now...it is my understanding that low doses of bupe go undetected at use under one mg often causes false negatives.... i never dilute my UA or tamper with it in any way...obvuisly I'm concerned here as it was a non issue when i started this thread.... i guess it givin me incentive to not use... but I'm just trying to quit succesful and i know for a FACT. the judge will NOT approve of any taper or use of this med doctors advice/note or not...its simply not on the approved meds list... so I'm wondering how low is a safe low dose that is abso facto not gonna show up... i know a drug testing question rite..lol i know i know just don't do drugs rite?...well easier said then done even in the face of incarcaration... that's how strong a grip its got on me....the smart thing to do would be to IMEDIATTLY cease any and all drug use...rite ..well that's my latest dilemma ...just keep rollin along i guess...just maybe they no answer rite? Consequences very real and i guess i just gotta man up.... just please watch my taper and help me get down..

    .66 monday... next drop..5 wanna be at .5 next sunday (a week from this sunday) ..well gotta work this afternoon ttyl..thanks jay

  9. #39
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Do not mix the chlonidine and the OTC sleep aid. Chlonidine is a blood pressure medication and might react with the otc and it will also cause headache if you take too much.

    There is no way we can guess a drug test. The only thing you can do is taper faster than you've outlined. I mean really listen to your body: if you feel fine, drop.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  10. #40
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Thanks for the heads up about the clonidine abd doxy succinate i beleive its called... i also have dyphenhydramine (benedril) if that safer... or i assume probably not... last nite same problem..skipped the clonidine and moltrin... just took tthe other half of sleeping pill from nite before ( about 13 mg) and the clonidine the 1mg which a low dose too.. I'm lowest possible dosing everything here...well ill try not to mix the two..thanks jay

  11. #41
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Oh and as far as taper... i cut up next weeks dosing just now... was at .75 dropping to .66 tomorro... will take that all week and hope i don't get tested...when i go to outpatient next thursday I'm planning on staying hydrated (nothing crazy) and not taking bupe that morning till after the test.... i am pretty confident i am a fast metabolizer of all drugs and alchohal suprisingly my liver very effective i have passed these tests within time frames that are iffy to say the least.... thus not taking my morning dose the morning of possible test i can accomplish two things

    a. I've been waiting later in the day anyway but most the bupe should be metabolized by test time as it will be about thirty hours... i know that's just the half life...but i really think its undetactable at such a low dose with 10ng/ml cuttoff perhaps...this is all guestimation...

    and
    b. i can follow a slower steady taper if this works

    I guess if it doesn't work ill clean out in jail so either way rite lol...ty again we don't gotta bring up the drug testing no more just a consideration why i want to get low as soon as possiblle thanks again

  12. #42
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Oh and as far as taper... i cut up next weeks dosing just now... was at .75 dropping to .66 tomorro... will take that all week and hope i don't get tested...when i go to outpatient next thursday I'm planning on staying hydrated (nothing crazy) and not taking bupe that morning till after the test.... i am pretty confident i am a fast metabolizer of all drugs and alchohal suprisingly my liver very effective i have passed these tests within time frames that are iffy to say the least.... thus not taking my morning dose the morning of possible test i can accomplish two things

    a. I've been waiting later in the day anyway but most the bupe should be metabolized by test time as it will be about thirty hours... i know that's just the half life...but i really think its undetactable at such a low dose with 10ng/ml cuttoff perhaps...this is all guestimation...

    and
    b. i can follow a slower steady taper if this works

    I guess if it doesn't work ill clean out in jail so either way rite lol...ty again we don't gotta bring up the drug testing no more just a consideration why i want to get low as soon as possiblle thanks again

  13. #43
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    It's great that you decided to surrender and take our advice regarding your taper. So many people come here wanting to do it "their way", only to realize later that Robert's method is absolutely the way to go! I'm not saying there haven't been people who got off subs a different way, but the taper plan is tried and true.

    I wish you luck with your drug test. I'd hate to see you get punished while working so hard to get clean.

    Take care,
    Kat
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  14. #44
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Thanks kat... you have been a lot of help and i see you helping others too...and ya I'm a drug addict so that part of me wants to do it MY way...wich obvoiusly doesn't work or i wouldn't be in the situation I'm in... anyways you alex and others i reeally do appriciate..and am trying my best to follow the advice..and it seems to be better then what i can come up with on my own...left to my own devices..anyway..yep. i feel a lot better and this forum a great source of support..well i gotta go to work...peace JAY
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  15. #45
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Default jury in on benzo use

    So anyone who has read some of my posts...i think my original question was weather or not benzos could be used responsably to come off suboxone
    The verdict: absolutely not for me given the nature of my personality

    so Without going into too much detail i have been dancing with the devil with these benzos i have access too,
    My experience is while in them i dropped my bupe use 30 percent...it went back up 25percent upon benzo abstinence ... the rebound anxiety where worse then the initial problems i had..
    Not too mention as of late i am realizing i must have blacked out a few times as people in my life where telling me strange behaviuor i don't recall

    also i apperently went to an AA meeting all dosed up on who knows how many i ate that day...ya been in damage control...work too...grrrr I'm a damn idoit!!
    Ya and apparently my girlfriend says i was staying up late leaving the stove on and was on the internet a lot...i have received several packages i don't recall ordering so check my money sure enouf hundreds are gone..(wat other suprises am i gonna get?)lol
    anyway worst of all i have seemed to post once or twice in this forum with no recollection of doing so....
    soo i apologize i am really sorry that was really irrisponsable of me.. .
    I should have listened to your advice but nope had to jam up the works myself

    Don't do drugs...jake

  16. #46
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Good warning about benzo's and subs. Not a good combination: in fact benzo's are harder to kick than the H, and the anxiety and insomnia are horrific.

    Drop day today Jay?

    Your post really is kind of humorous, but seriously: this kind of honest posting will help someone else. Hope your day is a good one!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  17. #47
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ya rose.(can i call ya that) I'm lauphing now but i did piss off my girlfriend and i am amazed i still have my job..of course guys at AA are really concerned..in all reality those things are no joke...whole reason I'm inlegal trouble is i mixed H wit zanex and got in a car accident after nodding off and hit another car...lucky no one was hurt...i got a freind doin ten years in jackson prison who nodded off on just dope...the female (my other freind) died as a result of her injuries...

    so ya these are really scary drugs with very real consequences .
    .

    ya that would be nice if i can help someone stay away from.that stuff... dunno why i thout this time would be different....so ya i got a bunch of those devil pills locked in the safe had my girlfrind hide the key... dangerous stuff.

    anyways ya...i woke up...drank my morning cup of joe...then took the lowered dose of .66mg
    got the day off and lookin like it gonna be nice outside so gonna try to get out some...


    How bout you...how are you doing and wats on your agenda (sry i get so wrapped up in myself i forget to ask but honestly am interested...thanks again for all your support...peace jay

  18. #48
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Throw your benzos away. There will never be a time when you will need them enough to go through that experience again. You are right: benzo's are no joke. Same thing happened to someone I know, but wasn't taking other opiates, just a handful of xanax and drinking: Couldn't remember what happened the night he did this. Pretty scary stuff, eh.

    I'm off for home, been up in the north country by TC, MI.

    Rose

  19. #49
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Rite on...I'm a michigander too.. ya was up in traverse city? Ya i should get rid of em..actually trying to...guess i didn't want to just throw em out seems like a waste but its probably best... ya sorry too here about your freind too....anyways i tried to find two previous posters both of which said they were pretty much cold turkey...couldn't find either of em.... a bit discouragin well gonna spend the rest of day bbq wit kids then all my favorite shows on tonight

    Fox cartoons the cosmos...NASCAR. race today and tigers are playin.
    so ill check back in most likely tomorro... hope everyone is doing well and has a good day..peace Jay

  20. #50
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Yup, Michigander through and through, just got home. Snowed the other day! I mean like real blizzard stuff, but only 2 inches fell. What are you talking about going c/t from? There are lots of posts of people going c/t.
    Sounds like you're having a great time with your family, what a great day for BBQ. Relax and enjoy!

    Rose

  21. #51
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Someone posted in my thread trying to use benzos like me and don't think they started ther own thread...was curious about them...and someone started a thread yesterday i can't find that wondering if it violated any forum rules and reely hope it wasn't anything i said... I'm simply an addict and quite selfish...part of recovery is learning to give a hoot about others ya know? Anyways i do follow others threads too other then wat i just mentioned...anyway blizzard conditions huh?
    Ya its been windy and rainy a few days where I'm at...yesterday was ok...this has been a harsh Michigan winter thru and thru no doubt...
    anyways not much to update (hope I'm not annoying everyone already!) kinda use this as my online journal too so feel free to ignore anything lengthy or self involved..
    anyway dropped yesterday...felt fine...went to bed by midnite...got up at 8 am...
    holy hell a full nite sleep.rite?
    The bad
    woke up with withdrawal sneezes a lot of them... stomach cramps.damn near took an imodium...itchy crawly early withdrawal symptom with larger watery pupils....just dropping from .75 to .66

    Placebo? No i don't think so

    from dropping? Maybe... i just don't understand the people who.say that i shouldn't even feel withdrawal for a few days due to long half life... i took my dose noon yesterday..i could only go to 9:30 today...that's 20 hrs...
    anyway took sub 20 min ago so just see how it goes....just gonna stick to the plan...jay
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-07-2014 at 09:02 AM.

  22. #52
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    Hey Jay,

    I figured >> check out your thread! For anxiety try L theanine. It helps a ton with anxiety its really good for making you feel calmer. You can get it at GNC. Good for you being at .5!!!! You should start feeling better soon at that dose. For energy and it also helps with blood pressure (your blood pressure rises during withdrawal) try some taurine also. I know most people hear Taurine and they think red bull, but taking just the 500 mgs a day helps me a lot....it helps to calm and focus you. It works for me. I also started on some b12 when I was right at .5 mgs. I ate gummy vitamins...they're easy to get down. You don't feel the vitamins at first but they build up in your system and start helping a lot. I haven't been fatigued for a while since I started the Taurine,B12 and Ltheanine. My only symptom is some joint pain. Also Hylands "leg cramps" or "restful legs" is all herbal. Vitamins do work! They take the edge off for sure. If you have a choice to feel >>>>>>, or super >>>>>>. >> choose >>>>>> all day haha....Good for you for sticking through! Some drops took me longer to stabilize then others. Don't rush it. Just don't go back up in dose and your still making progress. Careful with the benzo's too. They're actually contraindicated with suboxone. Meaning you shouldn't take them together. You really shouldn't need it anyway...I honestly never did...as long as you do it slow and steady. I did the SAME thing you did and rushed it and dropped too fast. I would checkout this youtube video about cutting suboxone strips too it helps measuring your dose so you know exactly where you are. My last dose was Saturday and I feel Ok!!! So take it slow and easy you will get there! I'm sure we can all confess to upping our dose at least once or twice in the weaning process. Try that video on you tube though! It helped me a lot. That way you will know exactly what dose your on and be able to gauge from that. You will notice everyday will get easier and easier. Days 3-4 were the worse for me personally, so what worked for me is basing my drops on that. So if I knew I had a physically crazy busy week then I would know NOT to start my drop 2 days before. I would make it where day 3 and 4 after the drop was on the weekend cause I felt a little more tired. Ibuprofen and Tylenol helps with aches also. Literally the only thing I noticed is I had achy joints. Also it might help you to stay away from any other meds, so you know exactly what your feeling. If that makes sense. You don't wanna drop too soon or feel the need to go up because of the side effects of something else. I weaned off the 8 mg strips also, def check out that youtube video just search cutting suboxone strips it was a man with a chart, its hard to explain it you have to see how to cut it and measure. Don't worry you will get there!
    Correction- .75mg (check out that video to see what dose your on lol...then let us know for sure

  23. #53
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    Sorry I don't know how to work these threads lol still learning. Disregard the above message. I didn't see your post had 2 pages lol. Anyways Keep on keeping on at .66! And post away please...have you seen my thread? LOL. Thats what this forum is for. It does help talking to people who know how you feel. The low doses are a little harder then dropping from higher doses but not too bad. You got this far right? You got this! Think of your worst possible pain you have ever felt in your life. Then think about how you feel right now. Not too shabby compared to that I bet. I'm sure you've been through worse. Your close to the finish line just keep pushing through! It gets easier each day. It helps (though god knows its hard) to keep positive. Your alive! Its raining but the rain makes the grass grow! LOL....(wanna shoot me yet Keep your head up you'll make it! Try some b12 energy gummies, some tylenol, lots of hot baths when you can helps with the chills. Listen to some music, Turn the heat up and bundle up and watch a movie keep yourself occupied it helps. What can you do with your time that you enjoy? Fill your time and before you know it you won't be thinking about being uncomfortable. If you wake up around the same time each day dose when you wake up. On weekends I sleep in so if I dosed at 11 no big deal. You'll still stabilize if you had to take that dose at 9:30 and yesterday you took it at 11 etc don't worry. You just need to watch the clock more towards the end of your taper I believe. My last dose was Saturday at 9:00 am!!! You can do it!! You want some inspirational quotes and poems I got a million of them LOL. LET ME know, I'll do it! I'll post em! Lol. Hang in there!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-07-2014 at 02:00 PM.
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  24. #54
    auburn girl is offline Member
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    Just to chime in on the "benzos". As Rose said, they are the DEVIL. Jay- I do hope you get rid of them. Benzos almost destroyed my marriage. All the things you said you did, was my living nightmare. Having my husband taking them and drinking turned my world upside down way more than opiates ever did. The acting crazy, not remembering things....I thank The Lord he is finally off those things. I came real close to leaving. Please don't take them. For your sake and your girlfriends too LOL.

    Also, I do enjoy your posts. I love your honesty. Good luck to you!!

  25. #55
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay: Make sure you are taking the .66mg. You may have a few rough days but should stabilize soon. The drop wasn't that steep, just make sure you have the correct dose. I am surprised by the w/d that soon, as you have sub built up in your body. Good on you for sticking to the plan.

    I agree with auburn girl, I enjoy your posts and your honesty. Besides, this is your thread and your journal. Back to work day today. Busy as all get out. Let us know how it goes! Thank God no blizzards today!
    And, yup, you can call me rose. Forgot to post that.

    rose
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  26. #56
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    jay maybe you just hit a little road bump is all. Happens all the time when people are tapering and there fine later that day or the next day. Or maybe with yesterdays dose you did not get it placed under your tongue right and did not get the full dose. Your doing well with your taper so far and keep on track and you will be at the finish line before you know it. best wishes and will talk to you later.

    Alex

  27. #57
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Thanks for all the replies everyone... i gotta leave for work in a few min so just a quick update..


    Today makes day three at .66 lastnight was restless legs and some night sweats....yesterday depresion no energy..... maybe just a roadbump i dunno... i came to this forum cause of these symptoms intitially....obviously they suk enouf to make me consider benzos altho after my experiment realize they weren't for me

    .
    Like jerry garciaused to say ya gotta keep on truckin

  28. #58
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ya i have a hard time editing.... stupid smart fone.... just wanted to add...peace jay...that's all lol...thanks again ill come back when i got more time ..hope u all are doin well peace jay

  29. #59
    jayryan is offline Member
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    So got out of work early... its sunny outside so sittin in my back yard...have more time now to read wat yall wrote...
    i appreciate the encouragment....

    going to an NA meeting tonight with my (Sorta) sponser...haven't officially signed him up that's a story in itself... like i said don't reely feel like goin tho...but they often say that's when you need to go the most besides yall are a great source of support even more won't hurt....
    anyway ya been at .66 this makes third day...work suked at first but after some coffee not too bad....feel almost good most the day just moments of craving ________________ ? <----- INSERT drug or alchohol here.....

    its so nice sitting in the sun in the back yard...my stupid addiction tells me it would be nicer wit a beer lol...

    anyways possible drug test thursday and etg 80alchohol. Est anyday now as they are random..... its enouf incentive not to use anything .....

    well imma out of stuff to write...just gonna stick to the plan and count on yall next week when i go to .5 next sunday...and lower doses after that...thanks again for everyonnes advice and encouragment....
    as far as benzos go... i am finding it difficult to find a freind i know will be responsable with them....
    don't want to hand them to the neighborhood pillheads...so i asked myself why not just flush them?

    answer: i asked myself and i guess deep down I'm expecting that them being under lock and key and having a responsable adult to give me a limited amount and make sure i don't eat them like candy like i did...perhaps when i jump or get out of jail or whatever i decide they will benifit they will be there....

    i know i cannot be responsable with them i can't trust myself they lower by inhibition to where i just keep eating them... its a demon lurking in the corner... my final decision is on the back burner but have taken precautions and safety measures to ensure no more blacking out/overdosing.... (i know just flush em)

    Well imma go read thru some of yalls threads peace Jay

  30. #60
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay: you been through the benzo w/d? Sounds like you've done some, but if you haven't been through benzo w/d you don't even think you want to go there. Xanax hit me like a brick. Thought it would be o.k. because I had had it in the past and really didn't effect me. So, like the idiot I can be at times went: man it'd be great not to have this anxiety. I'm lucky I'm not in jail from xanax xr, that's extended relief, kept taking them one after the other one night because I wasn't feeling any better and then BAM. Was driving home, had a fender bender, lied like a mother and got off with a ticket, and had my license pulled, car was drivable, but had to be driven home by the tow truck. Later, that night, my bf at the time had to call an ambulance because I decided in my not so rational mind that I needed a glass of wine while taking a bath: I guess I turned blue and every other color, guess it's a good thing I'm alive. He had no idea. If I would have been busted by the police, I would never work in my profession again, man, I got some kind of lucky. So quit them then and started to "responsibly" take them a couple years later: Different doctor said xanax isn't addicting and I listen to him like the fool that I was. This time regular 1mg. 3X a day and then one day, after a year, I ran out.: Didn't think anything would happen: couldn't sleep, anxiety like a mother, paranoid!!! OMG. I lost 10 pounds in three days. I had no idea what was wrong with me. Made going through opiate w/d a cake walk. Didn't know you could have seizures and luckily I didn't. FLUSH THEM DUDE. There is not a reason in the world why you would ever, ever, ever, need a benzo. There is Yogi brand Kava-tea, valerian root, serene L-theanine, meditation, taking a time out, all kinds of things. So, yeah, I know it's hard to flush "perfectly good drugs", but.... There may be a time when gf isn't there, a time when you go looking for the key, and on and on.
    There is one more story about someone very close to me who was really, really, depressed and a person they knew who got 210 bars a month, and handed them out along with k-pins. So this person started dabbling, they didn't make this person calm: they made this person angry and worsened the depression, be aware that this person was just dabbling, but had underlying issues of depression. On May 31st 2013, this person lost personhood decided suicide was the best option.
    And that is why I urge you to dump them. Don't mean to be debbie downer here. Just care about you and your future since you can't be trusted with them. I have never shared this here before.

    Anyhow, I hope your meeting is good. I think anything is good when you can go out in 60 degree weather and just be alive.

    Peace, Rose.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-08-2014 at 05:05 PM.
    auburn girl and alexnt like this.

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