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new here need advice
  1. #1
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Default new here need advice

    Hey my name is jay and i am at the tail end of a LONG sub taper (4TH year into it... anyways i am (Somewhat stable at .8mg ( That's 800 micrograms i beleive)

    I guess my question is/problem is... that i feel pretty fatiigued and such when i wake up in the morning and anxiety and insomnia sometimes at night... its not unberable just uncomfortable..... i have tried herbal teas kava (don't like at all) um been lookin into different amino acids etc... been drinking protien shakes trying to excersize etc... is ther something I'm missing... i want to make another drop buy am concerned these sypmtoms. will get worse.... i have been thru >>>>>> withdrawal and couldn't hack it that's why i got on subs... but i want off.... should i go down by 20 percent or maybe 50 PERcent or what? I can deal with some flulike symptoms..just worried about anxiety and fatigue... i can't take time off work... i guess i just am happy i made it this far but getti.ng really concerned this last little bit.... is ther anything I'm not thinkinh of or forgetting....should i get some clonidine or benzos?.. thoughts... ill look thru the other threads to see what some of the other people in a similar sittuation are doing... just wanted to put my situation out ther as sometimes ther is something i don't see and someone else can see more clearly..tha.ks jay

  2. #2
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Jay,

    Good to see you started a new thread here. The other board you posted on is pretty slow.

    First, stay the heck away from any benzos. I'm sure you know this, but they are highly addictive in a short period of time. You don't wanna introduce another addictive substance into your body. For anxiety, try Theanine. I have Serene Theanine which I purchased at a vitamin store. Takes the edge off.

    I also have clonidine which I only take when necessary. It helps with hot/cold chills. Exercise, staying hydrated and eating well is your best bet.

    You're at such a low dose that you could start skipping days now. Most people here who have tapered off subs go down to about .25 mg or .125 mg, then skip days. There's a taper plan most of us follow by Robert_325. At the end of a taper it goes like this: you skip one day, then dose. Skip 2 days, then dose. Skip 3 days, then dose. After skipping 4 full days, the half-life has caught up with itself and you're done.

    It's totally up to you if you want to attempt to go lower than .8 mg. I can imagine it will be difficult considering how tiny a dose that is. Let us know what you think and we'll be here to help.

    Kat
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  3. #3
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ya i do have some theanine.. it works once i fall asleep..i guess i was thinking benzo like a short acting one to actually get me to sleep.. i know i have drug seeking behaviour and they are addictive... i dunno

    let me give just a little history..I'm on my cell phone so its a little time consuming ..ne way
    Last summer i was sick and was at 2mg daily in my taper decided to jump...made it sixteen days... but the fatigue and insomnia were ridiculous so i concluded i jumped to high and went back on them...jumped around a little till the begining of this year decided to give it another go... so went from 2 MG DOwn to point .8 Which was a pretty steady linear taper... been at this dose for a few weeks and i swear i cannot hardly get out of bed and until I gather up all my energy (wich is basically zero) and motivation to go take the sub... it takes about two hours after that for me to feel ok..which lasts about 8 hrs then the anxiety hits and i become lethargic and by the time i go to bed restless legs etc... sometimes sleep is only a few hours... is this just the way it is at such a low dose ?

    To wrap up my post i guess i am aski.ng if they any possible thing i can do to feel better cause i do want to taper even lower befoee i .quit ... or maybe I'm just prolonging it?

    I dunno i read thru some other posts and i suppose everyone is different.. was wondering about the clonidine.. do most people start that ater the jump or during the last bit of the tapej.. i juguess i want a softer landing

  4. #4
    jayryan is offline Member
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    EDIT

    my cell phone wouldn't let me edit above... i wanted to ask also do u think if i stay at this dose a few more weeks will it get better? Or are these just symptoms i have to deal wit on this end of taper? And when i jump..

    lemme also add i think i have a really high metaabolism and maybe my body just metabolizes this stuff quicker like 20 hours as oppised to 36 which is the mean elimination half life... maybe that's what it is.. would splitting the dose in two be recomended if this is the case?

  5. #5
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    I would definitely taper lower than .8 before you jump completely. . If you jumped from 2mg. and lowered to .8mg. that was a pretty steep jump. It's important that you are stable before you go down and you should be stable after two weeks. Some things you need to do:

    Exercise. Exercise. Exercise.
    L-tyronsine with B-6 (need that for the tyrosine to metabolize) I use Triple Boost by Irwin Naturals
    Valarian root for anxiety (exercise and plenty of water will help)
    As Kat said, clonidine is helpful. Benzo's can lead to another addiction and w/d from those are no fun and going off the benzo can really increase your anxiety.

    Your next step down from .8mg. should be .6mg. keep your drops at .25% every 5 days or so. You've gotten really good info from Kat! Good luck with your taper, you will get there!

    Peace

    Iloerose
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  6. #6
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Ok, I feel like the biggest idiot! Don't ask me why, but I thought you meant .08 mg! I'm so sorry. Of course you definitely want to taper down more. I kept thinking "how the heck do you cut such a small dose?" lol...

    I feel so dumb right now. Yes, once you're stable at .8 mg, you drop by 25% to .6 mg. Only drop your doses when stable and no more than 25% at a time.

    Try Hylands Restful Legs for the RLS.
    Kat

  7. #7
    mammaj Guest

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    As a person who is prescribed benzos don't start them.
    You really do not want to begin taking them if you currently do not now. Listen to them they know what they are telling you. Every one may be different but will not guide you in wrong direction. The anxiety will pass.
    Clonidine if necessary. Non addictive and I didn't need them all that often.
    But if you're not currently taking benzos don't start please.
    that addiction is much harder to oovercome physically & mentally. Don't put to much on your plate at once.

  8. #8
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Thank you both for your replies... and sorry my anXiety was hitting a bit erlier...
    i went ahead and tried some more l-Theanine (i usually take it before bed) but took it erlier and did take the edge off a little perhaps...

    ya there is a lot of good advice here i been reading other threads too...
    as far as next i think i will follow your advice... my last sub i cut into .8 Mg peices so ten cuts....
    the next one ill cut into twelve cuts ( i think that's .6?)... i dunno ther gettin small...
    also i decided i am gonna get clonidine ...still do i use that during the taper or after my jump? or both? ...

    and about. the benzos i appriciate the advice and i decided ill put it on the back burner at least for now... but i still am thinking the jury still out for me wether they can be benificial used responsably short term just during the kicking process...


    i have had experience with benzos in the past and they were benificial as long as i didn't abuse them... i do admit to abusing them in the past so i am aware of the horrible rebound anxiety brain zaps etc..


    neways its getting late I'm gonna take a hot shower and try to get some sleep tonight...

    i do appriciate all the sound advice and at least i have a plan for this week was it Kat that mentioned you take clonidine during your taper? how should i take it ill have the .1Mg i think? Andd ill look into valerien and watnot tomorro..thanks again! Jay

  9. #9
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Kat:
    Its ok you shouldn't feel sillyy about that simple mistake in a decimaal point... i feel silly i gotta use my phone to type and its always full of typos plus its harder to comunicate ya know cut and paste make more direct replies..I'm just happy yall aren't busting on me for my spelling like they do on youtube haha!! neway thanks again jay

  10. #10
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay,

    I'm glad you've got a plan for your taper. Yes, I sometimes take clonidine when I'm dealing with hot/cold chills. My doc prescribed .25 mg tablets. Clonidine makes me very tired so I only take half a pill at a time. I'm saving a few for the end of my taper just in case.

    I cracked up when you made the comment about people busting you about your spelling on YouTube. Lol..

    Hope you're able to get some good sleep.
    Kat

  11. #11
    jayryan is offline Member
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    So you take half of a .25 Clonidine? So my .1I'm getting should be about that dose.
    Does it warm u up when your cold..

    I'm feeezing lately everyone in my house is warm/hot and here i am in front of the space heater...

    got a bad case of sneezes ( i sneeze a lot withdrawing ) will clonidine help with that?

    I still don't understand what all it does? u said it makes u sleepyy does that mean maybe it helps you sleep at night?
    O
    Does it take away goosebumbs or itchy crawly feeling?

    Sorry for all the questions i google this stuff but the info is all over the place....

    oh i got lopermide for stomach problems...saving that for when i jump...neways... i dunno if i caught where your at in sub maint/taper withdrawal? ThT info woulf help me too if ya don't mind..

    thanks again..jay...

  12. #12
    jayryan is offline Member
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    :
    Questions about paws:

    So were suppossed to not open new threads correct? So I'm double posting here lol sry just have more questionsu

    ne ways... I'm pretty confident i am prepared to finish tapering and junp in a few weeks or months (SLOw and low, that's the tempo) BBs reference sorry lol..

    ne ways i i understand a somewhat quicker Taper is recomended but I'm a LONG time user ..this stuff is probably settled in my bones etc..so taking my time
    which brings me to my question

    i am somewhat concerned about PAWS.. i have ZERO plan on how ill deal with any longer term symptoms like anxiety insonnia and fatigue

    I go to AA and Outpatient... and of cours excersive and diet..
    but being the drug addict i am i want to feel good NOW haha..

    so what acceptable comfort meds and supplements for the paws syptoms i mentioned...

    i think the insomnia and anxiety we allready covered some but wat about that DAG GONE relentless fatigue and maleise?

    I have adrenal plus and dlpa and tyrosine on the way... but that's about it.. oh already got B12ETC

    IS THER ANYTHINg.a little better?

    I love my caffene but been trying to cut back cause of anxiety...
    and any alchohol is pretty much out of the question too

    i dunno ideas? What has worked for others?

  13. #13
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Clonidine will help with hot/cold chills and sweats, creepy crawly feeling and sleep. The reason I mentioned that it makes me very tired is because I didn't know that until I took my first dose a few months ago. I took a .25 tablet and could barely keep my eyes open. But not everyone has that reaction from it. I don't think it helps with sneezing.

    Don't worry too much about paws. Despite what people think, it's actually uncommon. You can deal with that if and when that happens...and it probably won't.

    Malaise and fatigue just have to be dealt with by taking supplements, good diet, exercise, etc.

    Love the Beastie Boys reference by the way..lol..

    Kat

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Oh -- I forgot to answer your question about my dose. I'm currently at 1 mg.
    Kat

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    Default Keep it up

    Hi!
    I am at the end of a taper as well...I tried making it through today with nothing but ended up taking a .125 peice of the strip. I feel much better. To answer your question in my experience your body will adjust to the dose...it takes a bit. For me I figured if I'm gonna feel like >>>>...might as well make it worth it. So I dropped from 1 mg to .25 skipping days here and there...now to .125 when I absolutely can't make it through the day. I'm hoping if I keep up skipping days I will be able to quit completely. To make it easier on yourself...I heard to taper .25% of your dose every 4-5 days until you feel "stable"...stable meaning minor withdrawal symptoms subside. What your experiencing now basically. Hot/cold flashes...achy...etc. If you feel you can manage at 8 mg...try cutting down to 4 and mustering through. Its not as bad as withdrawals...its achiness. Kind of after a rough workout. Nothing I'm sure you can't manage. Just treat the symptoms. If you don't feel ready to rush don't. What helps encourage me when I'm feeling >>>>>> is some of the people on you tube going through withdrawals. You will see its no where as bad as your imagining! Now I wouldn't recommend dropping off at 8 mg..but don't be afraid to wean down. Your body will adjust pretty quickly. A little achiness and fatigue a day or two and you'll feel better. Just keep going down never up is the goal. I've managed to go down within 2 weeks once I skip a day or two I'm gonna just feel it out..and keep lowering my dose until theres nothing left! You'll get there don't worry. You never know until you try you might be one of the luckier ones who are working and fine during withdrawals. I've felt cold turkey from 2 mgs....and I just felt like I had a flu. Achy joints and tired...thats about it. Good luck! Remember "This too shall pass"...

  16. #16
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay: As Kat said don't worry about the PAWS, she is right that it is rare. You may have residual anxiety, insomnia, and lethargy, but this is normal: we didn't get here overnight and we don't get better overnight. It's going to take a while for the chemicals in your brain to balance and I don't think it's a good idea to use benzo's for this because they are just going to put off the healing process. I would stick with the L-theanine and valarian root for anxiety as well as getting plenty of exercise. Believe me I know how the anxiety can paralyze you, but you're better off w/o the benzo's unless you use them after your taper and very, very sparsely. That is one addiction you don't want: w/d from a benzo makes jumping from sub look like child's play. Also, Hyland's restful leg or calmes forte will help as will gatorade for RLS. Clonidine is a good idea as it will calm you. As for the lethargy: L-tyrosine with B-6, like I said I use (still on occassion) Triple Boost by Irwin Naturals for energy. As for sleep: try an OTC or melatonin and sleepy time tea STRONG.
    When you've been on subs long term, as you have, it's best to take it slow and steady: that is what will win the race for you. Your body will tell you when you are stable and it's time for a drop, just don't get complacent and you can't measure it in weeks: let your body be your guide. I think it's best for you at this point to get stable on the .8, you didn't say how long you have been at the .8mg. It was one heck of a jump from 2mg. to .8mg.
    You'll get this and be fine, if you are going to NA or AA, that will help with your fears of finally being off.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  17. #17
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay there is nothing I can think of to add to the advise you have already been given. Just wanted to welcome you to the forums. Its to late now since it appears that you have been at .8 for awhile now but if you dropped straight down from 2 mg to .8 that would explain the way you feel. Myself I weaned down to around .20 befor I jumped. My best wishes to you.

    Alex

  18. #18
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Default down to .5 (500 micrograms)

    I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who gave advice... i have read all of your replies and have read other threads too... the advice is sound and really the best out there.... i have heard horrer stories of doctors putting people on 32 mg and then they insurance or medicad or whatever reason they have to come off the suboxone and they quickly ween to 2mg and jump and go thru absolute agony... then when they tell there doctor what they are experiencing they say its all in your head maybee u need to see a shrink.... anyways.. hopefully doctors are now aware that this drug is infact pretty difficult to come off... by the way last time i seen a psychiatrist they wouldn't treat me and said i need to go to rehab....

    talk about passing the buck...anyways i go to AA and outpatient therApy now...but this forum here has the most understanding and helpful people


    anyways so ya i dropped from point 8 milligams .8 ... everyone thinks I'm saying 8 mg when its .8 .. huge difference...

    anyways ya I'm at .5 and feel about the same ... no better no worse...so i guess that's good plan on staying at .5 for the rest of this week then next sunday drop.again....

    One last thing i have to admit is against everyone's advice i got a short supply of a short acting benzo anolog (its not really a benzo but does the same thing.... it helped a lot with sleep..in fact i slept reeely damn good last week and had ZERO anxiety.... i ran out two days ago ( only used for four days)... and have a touch of rebound anxiety but still slept good lastnight...

    i know the benzo path us dangerous and foolish....
    and i dunno if its worth the risk but i am considering getting the exact same amount (4 or 5 day) supply and then proceed with the theanine 5htp and valerian maybe melatinin.. etc some other amino acids protien shakes excersize diet etc..

    i know the benzo route will be frowned upon and I'm not even suggesting it for others....

    they is a very real chance it is just the addict in me wanting to feel numb or fill that hole or get high.... some of you know what I'm saying

    so i can only be honest and say my experience i am still thinking very short term and short acting ( 3 hr half life)... may be worth a little risk as i have to be able to function i have bills to pay a job a family probation and all kinds of obligation ... so the responsable side of me says its ok..

    i dunno i may be playing with fire but i read the so called thomas recipe i thi.k and they say benzo short term is ok

    i came here for advice and support... so i wouldn't put all that out on the table if i didn't need advice... i am in fact a drug addict have been for a long time... it helps to admit it and be rigorously honest with yourself about that...

    anyway this is getting long as hek... so ill stop yappin..lol.. peace jay

  19. #19
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Edit:
    When i stated i was considering getting another small supply of benzo i ment for when i actually jump... just for the first four or five days as that seems to be when a lot of the agony hits..i guess I'm just thinking it would be nice to sleep thru a lot of that... anyways.... its not set in stone and i kinda did a test run to see how it affected me.... people did notice i was out of it kinda at work and that sucks monkey balls... but other then everyone being dead set against it and thinking I'm just relapsing i think it went alright ... anyways maybe ill change my mind just if. i could honestly use them.only for a few days when acute withdrawal is hitting the hardest.. then i fail to see the harm..... i mean is it that i may get 'hooked' and keep using them or what.. like i said i used them for four dayys on and two days off and really have no withdrawAl watsoever.... just my anxiety is back..... i dunno if someone could explain to me why it is such a bad idea i would consider those reasons... maybe i really am screwing up even considering them... anyways i think i explained my reasoning prettt thoroughly so ill wait for a response before i do anything as i still don't planon jumping for another couple weeks or even months... been on this >>>> for just about four years... so i wanna do this right... I've tried to jump a number of times before all to quickly and too high a dose.... i even kicked dope in jail once and didn't get a second of sleep litterally for eight days.... it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life.. (kicking in. Jail(.. so u can understtand my fear and concern perhaps... and btw they a very real possibility i will be incarcerated again tthis year so that's a big reason I'm tryig to quit soon... as i don't want to kick in jail again... so if a handful ofzpills can succesfully help me quit at home before I'm incarcerated...well anywYs i know there no easy way out of these problems just i reely do need to get my >>>> together and realize drugs are reely bad.... just this damn suboxone is so hard to stop.... one would think the less you take the better you feel... i mean this >>>> does absolutely now nothing for me as far as getting high or anything.. i just want off...and cigarettes too... that's a whole nother mountian rite ther...lol... heck well thanks for reading my posts... if anything it helps just getting it all off my chest knowing perhaps another soul can relate and I'm not the only one going thru this... i wish the best to everone and ther is always hope! Peace jay

  20. #20
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Edit:
    alex... i was at 2mg about a month ago so down to .5 now so ya that's a 75 Percent drop over a month or so... its been rouf but i haven't been taking slivers or cheating except with the benzo kick i been playing around with...which this is what i mean:
    When i stated i was considering getting another small supply of benzo i ment for when i actually jump... just for the first four or five days as that seems to be when a lot of the agony hits..i guess I'm just thinking it would be nice to sleep thru a lot of that... anyways.... its not set in stone and i kinda did a test run to see how it affected me.... people did notice i was out of it kinda at work and that sucks monkey balls... but other then everyone being dead set against it and thinking I'm just relapsing i think it went alright ... anyways maybe ill change my mind just if. i could honestly use them.only for a few days when acute withdrawal is hitting the hardest.. then i fail to see the harm..... i mean is it that i may get 'hooked' and keep using them or what.. like i said i used them for four dayys on and two days off and really have no withdrawAl watsoever.... just my anxiety is back..... i dunno if someone could explain to me why it is such a bad idea i would consider those reasons... maybe i really am screwing up even considering them... anyways i think i explained my reasoning prettt thoroughly so ill wait for a response before i do anything as i still don't planon jumping for another couple weeks or even months... been on this >>>> for just about four years... so i wanna do this right... I've tried to jump a number of times before all to quickly and too high a dose.... i even kicked dope in jail once and didn't get a second of sleep litterally for eight days.... it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life.. (kicking in. Jail(.. so u can understtand my fear and concern perhaps... and btw they a very real possibility i will be incarcerated again tthis year so that's a big reason I'm tryig to quit soon... as i don't want to kick in jail again... so if a handful ofzpills can succesfully help me quit at home before I'm incarcerated...well anywYs i know there no easy way out of these problems just i reely do need to get my >>>> together and realize drugs are reely bad.... just this damn suboxone is so hard to stop.... one would think the less you take the better you feel... i mean this >>>> does absolutely now nothing for me as far as getting high or anything.. i just want off...and cigarettes too... that's a whole nother mountian rite ther...lol... heck well thanks for reading my posts... if anything it helps just getting it all off my chest knowing perhaps another soul can relate and I'm not the only one going thru this... i wish the best to everone and ther is always hope! Peace jay

  21. #21
    jayryan is offline Member
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    Since no one replied yet ill save ya some.effort..... i decided against continuing with.the benzo idea.... after rereading my posts.... i realize that it is just too much drug seeking behavoiur and of course i connot be responsable.with it... I'm an addict and have to remember that...

    I'm dropping down to .25 mg to.4 mg ( hard to get these doses excact at this low cause I'm cutting up 8mg strips into about 20 piecea or so...all i know is they are smallerthen what. i currantlt am on...(500 microgram)... they dont even register anymore on my .001 mg scale anything under a mg shows all zeros.... is they anyway i can perhaps make a solution and start weighing that to get more accurate dosing?

    And lastly since no one answered my new benzo posts... i have indeed decided to quit thinking that rought but having done nootropics in the past i ordered a few more amino acids...o ordered choline...tryptophan and taurine...( i beleive the tryptophan works best when you eat a few fig newtons to turn it into 5Htp which turns into seretonin which turns into melatonine....so ill have all these amino acids to aid in anxiety sleep and depression.... also mixed with choline may aid in my bipolar and help produce sam e amoung other things....

    so that's the rought I'm taking unless someone points out a big .no no sonewhere... these aditional supplements should arrive by the time i make my drop to .25

    I am currently taking theanine...htp... and a sleeping pill ( otc antihistimine type as needed...maybe twice a week....

    um milk thistle daily...sublingual b-12... and herbal teas at night to relax and being a recovering alcholic i need a drink in my handand the chamimile etc help a little..


    i did dabble in adrenafil and kratom.erlier this year and was able to skip suboxone doses with it but never re ordered cause kratom can cause withdrawals too..... was thinking it may be a shorter acting opiate so the withdrawals would.set in quicker and end quicker...but in the end it seemed like a bad ( expensive idea...i was drinking an ounce a day. to stave of withdrWal


    i have adrenal plus... dlpa.. tyrosine and clonidine for when i make my jump...


    how does all this sound overkill? Or legit...oh i got lopermide for bathroom issues haven't had to use yet but withought giving TMI ill just say soon illneed a pill to solidify my buisness..lol sorry

    moltrin for pain and ran out but getting more epsom salt as ill be taking a nunber of hot baths a day when i kick...hot epsom salt bath is tenporary releif from all body aches....

    i have a few more nootropics/supplements I'm not planning on.using during the taper/kick... but for paws if i get them i have some racetams..noopept... magnolia bark extract and skullcap extract.... and i still have phenibut i used when i quit alchohol.... i hate the way it makes me feel... all drunk like and hungover the next day but ill use it in an emergency if i can't sleep for a few days...the stuff is like ghb.....

    anyway....this is my plan of using a dozen or so.comfortmeds to quit one med.... it seems like a lot but i won't be using these daily or mixing them.too much... and of course i plan on the amino acid therapy about a month..... is ther any risk of addiction or bodily harm? I do take milk thistle and liver aid to help my liver and drink lots of ginger/lemon tea....

    i have tried cold turky and have succeded with every drug inckuding benzo and alchohol cold turky.....just this suboxone/ opiates i simply.feel.to >>>>>> withought some help... i wish i could just go to a hospital for two or three weeks andhave a doctor help me get back to normal and not using suboxone...but i have no insurance and.that's not how hospitals work... i have found one medical detox that uses comfort meds and barbituates but they wanted 15,000 dollaraes.... ya rite how many junkies got fifteen K lying around...and if they did they would bing on it and seek help when that money gone....


    well that's my plan.... its probablyy flawed but i came up with it on my own.... if anyone wants to tweek it to make it better ...helthier go for it...advice is appriciated if i wouldn't consider others advice i wouldn't even post....just my therapist and Probation officer won't can't help offer advice because the judge doesn't approve of suboxone and its strait to the clank if they find out I'm on it.....luckily the lab they use for my drug testing doesn't show up...so that's why i been doin this alone...which is never a good idea.... i need support and the current profesionals think.I'm a pothead cause.they read the police report wrong...haha... i rather let them think I'm a pothead then what i really am.... and like i said i can't be honest because suboxone is not on the approved medicatiins list in the court system I'm in.....funny thing is if you have a medical marijuana card they let you smoke pot all day on probation...its a fricken joke.... well i really feel like I'm talking to myself... i gotta go to work... if anything maybe this post will help soneone else who reads ..well peace..jay

  22. #22
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Jay: Sorry no one answered the benzo post. One thing I KNOW FOR CERTAIN: you need to get stable on one dose and stay there for a few days. That way you will decrease the possibility of w/d. You've been on sub a long time and have taken some steep drops. So I'm telling you to ride out the .5mg. or even go back up to the .6mg. and stay there for a bit. You should feel "normal" before a drop. The point is that you are all over the place in your taper. Do not get into a rush. Make sure you are stable at a dose.

    I do not know about all the amino acids and the supplements that you are on. I know a good multi-vitamin and mineral supplement helps. Serene L-theanine helps. L-tyronsine/b-6 combo helps. Melatonin and sleepy time tea help for sleep and Valerian root is priceless for anxiety. Stay hydrated.
    The best bet is exercise: Plenty of exercise to help rebuild your natural endorphines.
    The cholindine does help to relax you and with sleep.
    The benzo's may show up in a drug test.
    So slow it down some and you'll be o.k. Take it easy and take a deep breath, if you follow the slow taper plan and don't go about it willy-nilly like you are and dropping too fast, you are going to be o.k.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  23. #23
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    I have to agree with Rose. Even you said it yourself: slow and low, that's the tempo! Take it easy. The recommemded 25% drop from .8 mg would have been to .6 mg. But, you're saying you dropped to .5 mg instead? Are you good and stable there? If not, take Rose's advice and go back to .6 mg. No need to rush since you've been on subs a long time. I've been on subs for over 7 years and am currently dropping every 10-14 days.

    Good for you for not getting any more benzos. Excellent choice there. You seem to have a boatload of supplements, so I suppose you'll have to see what works through trial and error. Aside from that, exercise and staying hydrated is key.

    NA/AA cannot be stressed enough. That is where we learn to deal with the normal ups and downs of life without reaching for a pill, a drink, whatever. I can't remember if you said you were involved with meetings, but if not, please consider it.

    Keep us posted!
    Kat

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    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ya sry about my long posts yesterday .. like i said i have bad anxiety... and l been of the benzo that i only took for a few days for i dunno four or five days now... I dropped to .5 when i was taking the benzos.... they are no magic pilk and lastnight and today i was sneezing and legs kicking....think that's from the sub withdrawal... and was having insomnia again and vivid dreams which i attribute to minor benzo withdrawal....
    anyways you guys are right slow and low wins the race.....

    i had already measured out next weeks drop to .25. but am gonna scratch that idea... follow your advice and stay where I'm at a bit and stableize.... rereading this thread i realize I'm kinda freeking out a bit here and need to relax..lol...sry again my apologies i have bad anxiety and also bipolar so says my docter... which they used to handme those super big prescription size bottles of zanex bars... that withdrawal was a living hell i was bouncing off the walls and freeking out... kinda like i am now.... i gotta trust that i will be ok eventually... i been using drugs and alchohol to relax for a long time and obviously I'm a nervous wreck so they aren't reely relaxing me right..haha damn devil i tell ya.. came to kill steal and destroy.......well thanks for allowing me a place to vent... i think I'm starting to anoy my kids mother...I'm supposed to be the man and listen to her problems...ya know... and i think its proven alchihol and opiates lower testosterone and kills sex drive...(turns ya into a winey little >>>>>) no offense intended... just upset with myself for being so manic and emotional.... i really don't. know how to functiin withought drugs all day every day.......this is a new experience for me trying to get all the way clean and sober and the first time i seriously want that....I'm thirty five and have been using since age thirteen... i don't even know what being an adult is all about cause i never have done anything drug and alchohol free at least not for very long.....

    neways i read somewhere lastnight that drinking LOTS of water can actually be pretty benificial...and a lady i work with is gonna pick me up the pure valerian root..the actual root where i can make tea....she's a vegan and is super healthy she thinks that will help...so I'm exciited to try that.... well i gotta get ready for work..... i really do appriciate the advice...I'm an addict and i need others to point out what I'm doing wrong cause i have clouded judgment and if my brain neurons had they way they would keep asking for drugs till they killed me from respitory arrest... i really am glad i have a place to be 100percent honest..peace..jay

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    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ya i just decided to take a .25 mg sliver to up my level a bit.... i rarely allow myself a sliver...am actuuay dead set against it... but i think .8 to .5 is just a bit too much...anyways...ill try again tomorro to stay at .5... was just like screw it... i wanna feel good today for a change.... hope that wasn't a bad idea but i seroiusly was starting to freak out... it sucks cause i know that 2mg will fix me right up haha.... but no way no damn way ill do that lol...addictions. suk nuts

  26. #26
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    You need to get stable at a dose. Doesn't sound like you're stable. There's no shame in going back up to .6 mg (or whatever dose it takes to get stable) so you can have a smoother taper. That's the point of tapering -- to be mostly comfortable.

    Never drop before stable and never more than 25% at a time.
    All the best,
    Kat

  27. #27
    jayryan is offline Member
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    I been at .5 a week now.... it was a rouf week... but yesterday felt more (normal) not as manic... i slept eight hours amazingly with no substances just sleeptime tea... haven't even taken my dose today yet or coffee ... i used to need it to wake up now I'm trying to wake up naturally... anxiety is about 80 Percent gone... I'm not buying no more supplements..just gotta man up and if that means no sleep or energy for awhile then that's that.... gotta run peace...jay

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    jayryan is offline Member
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    Btw kat here you are helping me and I'm being so selfish i don't even ask how your doing? ( damn i can be ajerk sometimes...neway didn't you say you were at about 1mg? Have you gone down any and how it workin? Anyway hope you doing well...i really do gotta run tho... thanks again jay

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    jayryan is offline Member
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    Ok i got a quick min before i gotta go to group counseling... was sitting here waiting for sub to kick in...(about an hour ago) and it never did.... i think the reason my anxiety went away and i finally slept is cause i took t that extra .25 mg. sliver... so .75. Anyways i don't want to feel like hell as this is my first group...don't wanna act like a psycho..lol.... so truth be told i dropped from .8 to .5 you all were right too quick as i probably wasn't stable at .5... long story short took another .25 sliver just now so i guess i only dropped in reality .05 mg...hah...its a little i guess....ya i upped my dose unfortianatly.....i think another problem is these small doses are estimates...not exact....i was wondering if i can find a better way to mesure these out... i have access to only 8mg strips and that is all so i have to work with that.... well hopefully someone can learn from my mistake of trying to use benzo and dropping too quick.... it was pretty unsuccesful i must admit....the only good news is i think .75 will be my new stable dose...neways...for real gotta run now peace jay

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    questions89 is offline New Member
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    new here, first post, battled depresssion since i was 16 (24 now), drank daily for 6 months through end of college, started roxies summer '11, continued up from 1 at night to 4-6 some days 10 until september '12. went to rehab for detox/depression, was clean for a while, started the habit again on and off. 3 weeks ago i began suboxone, starting with 1.5-2 mg's/day, tapered over 3 weeks down to literally a spec of sub/day maybe .2/.3 mgs, stopped taking subs monday, Tuesday took 4 mg of xanax over the course of the day, yesterday took 1 mg at 11am and 1 mg at 10pm. today woke up, not serious wd (2nd day no sub) took 1 mg of xanax at 2 pm, feel better for now, can function. i have 10 .5 mg xanax left along with about 1mg of sub which i never plan on taking again. i use melatonin to sleep though i dont sleep soundly (or least i havent the past 2 nights.

    my withdrawls were never debilitating, was able to work, but serious anxiety/stomach pain and hot.cold sweats but no throwing up although last night i was on the verge before bed. my plan is another .5 of xanax before bed, then .5 in the morning tmrw if i feel the withdrawals. my question is am i better off taking zero xanax and just dealing with the pain, or is it possible to responsibly take the xanax to combat the axiety and ween myself without getting addicted? total time using xanax would e no more than a week.

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