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Newcomer.. Thinking of getting off... Please help!
  1. #1
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Default Newcomer.. Thinking of getting off... Please help!

    Hello all, I have been scrolling through posts the last few days and have found quite a bit of information and happy for a lot of you success stories and encouraged. I have been taking norco for quite a long time 10 yrs or so but recently in the past year or two it has really gotten out of hand (40 per day) and have wanted to stop but tapering myself has yet to work. My significant other does not know any of this and we live together and am worried that if I start the sub I will get sick or be acting differently. They really can not find out cause I feel they would be devastated. Even to get myself into the position of inducing I will have to bob and weave to get to that point. From what I've read as long as you wait long enough you end up feeling pretty stable within a couple hours or so. Most important thing is starting low and not overdoing it. Here is my plan as of this moment, since I'm thinking maybe this week if this plan would work. Going to doc to speak about it tomorrow or Tuesday and taking my last doses of norco tomorrow evening at 6pm then on Tuesday at the 24 hour mark taking the jump with 1mg (only problem is I work at 7pm so maybe earlier if I'm feeling bad enough) then go another mg 1.5 hours later. For some reason I am thinking I will be pretty good at this point but may have to go another .5 another question is at this point since it would be later in the day when would begin the next day because I would like to be on a schedule of dosing in the mornings. Thanks for any replies or help. this forum is incredibly encouraging and there is tons of useful information. I'm pretty scared of the pw's but I'm assuming if starting low they aren't incredibly bad, please correct me if I'm wrong! Also if you do go in to pw's how should you carry on? Wait 24 hours or how does that work? If I needed to feel better could I take norco? And then start over with another 24 hours plus? Also is sex drive completely gone in the beginning? Thank you thank you thank you! Oh... I also plan on following the Robert plan to a T which is why I was wondering on dosing after inducing since it would begin during the evening, I am pretty strong so I don't plan on being on these long.. Like Robert mentioned I am hoping for 60 days. THANKS again and again!!

  2. #2
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Glad you found us!!

    Here's the thing. Please don't use hours to gauge when you're ready to induct on the subs. Find the COWS worksheet so that you can score your withdrawal symptoms. You need to reach a minimum of 26. You DO NOT want to risk PW. No. There is no out except to ride out the storm and then reinduct with sub. Taking more Norco won't help. Definitely taking more sub won't work. Use the worksheet! 24 hours gets some people there but there are others who need to go 36 or even 48 hours. You just shouldn't guess at this. Use the worksheet and score honestly. You won't be sorry.

    Once you reach that score of 26, you would induct by taking .5mg of the sub and waiting about 90 minutes to give it time to take its full effect. If you aren't stable, begin to take .25mg pieces waiting 45 minutes to an hour in between until you are stable. I have rarely seen anyone need more than 3 or 4mg.

    Ask questions. There will be others to come along and help. Most important thing is to get to that 26 score. PW is no joke no matter how strong you are. I heard someone say it's cold turkey withdrawal on steroids. I think that's a good description. Not to scare you, but just to warn you to be careful. Print out the worksheet and Robert's Plan and you'll do fine.

    Peace,

    Cat

  3. #3
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Thanks Cat!! I've looked at the Cows thing and based how I normally feel (from memory) after about 10 hours at like a #16 on the COWS. I haven't gone more than 10 hours (while awake, I get through 16 hours from previous evening to a few hours after I wake in the morning) in a long long time.. It's very hard to judge that 26 I feel. If I'm going to do it I def want to do it right and there won't be any going back after taking the step. I just really don't wanna face those pw's especially if I will be going to work, they def sound scary. A big question also is that if I induce during the evening and say stabilize around 10pm that night.. When would my next day's dose begin? Thanks thanks thanks!!

  4. #4
    Thisweekforsure is offline Advanced Member
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    Two big red flags see I.

    First, you plan to work the night of your induction, after 24 hours from your last dose. Am I understanding this correctly? You believe you will reach 26 on the COWS, induct, wait to feel better, re-dose, rinse repeat until you find the dose that makes all WDs go away. And then go on to work at 7 pm that night? What's your plan B if you are not at 26 by 7 pm?

    Second: Are you taking 7.5s or 10s? Either 300 or 400 mg per day? It's going to be a very rough day either way. What about this significant other who can know nothing about this? Are they going to be around at any point during this day? By bobbing and weaving do you mean explaining why you're vomiting and running out the other end all day, then going off to work at 7?

    Hate to sound like I'm raining on your cornflakes but I sort of see this as setting yourself up to fail. Cat says, don't use hours, but you're going to be using hours whether you mean to or not because of the hard deadline of being at work that night. Is there no way you can get three days off work in a row and wait til then to do this?
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  5. #5
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    I know it's it's a rough timeline, I'm completely new to this and only know what I have read here. Significant other leaves to work that morning so I will have all day to myself. That's what I'm trying to find out if I will be able to work, I suppose I could be late by an hour or 2 if needed but it's incredibly busy at work this week, I've just come to end and I want to do it as soon as I can and that's the closest timeline I see in sight.

    If I'm not at 26 by a time frame I feel I will be able to safely make it happen I will have to start over, this definitely isn't the ideal situation I know which is why I am trying to figure it out. I am at 400 for the day.

    I know the deadline line should not be set in stone I will have to gauge it out. If it doesn't work that day I think I'll have an opening a few days later.

    Again, I know it's not ideal I'm just seeking help to figure it out cause I do want to do it. This is as serious as I've been.

    Thanks for raising the flags and bringing them to my attention.

  6. #6
    Thisweekforsure is offline Advanced Member
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    Okay well as long as you have the Norco on hand if you aren't at COWS 26 and don't take any sub then you can rescue with Norco and go to work. Just be careful. If you start the sub and it isn't stabilizing you in time, you'll have a mess. Potentially.

  7. #7
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Thanks for your feedback. I definitely want the first time to go smoothly and be the only time, so yea if I don't think I'll have enough time that'll have to be my back up plan.

    Question.. Are you able to take zanax, muscle relaxers, Otc sleep medicine, ibpro or loperamide to help get through the initial detoxing? If I'd be able to take some of those I'd probably be able to start earlier and stretch the time out a bit more.

  8. #8
    Thisweekforsure is offline Advanced Member
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    No, they say don't take any comfort meds. It will mess up your COWS score and might delay your induction.

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    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    That sucks! Thanks for the answer to that... Appreciate it!

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    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    I just want to add something.

    Do not induct too early..

    You have to wait .. !!!!

    There is absolutely no way around it!

    You are on a short acting opiate and taking a lot so you may reach the 26 pretty fast..
    Please remember to score yourself honestly and start small with the sub..

    You should be able to stabilize on 4 mg or less..
    Depending on your metabolism..

    We wil be here to help you because it difficult to do it alone..

    Take care
    Bette

    PWs at any level are terrible
    You will wish you were dead..
    That is a promise you never want to experience..

    No comfort Meds..
    It will delay the induction..

    I have done this 3 times..
    2 times completely the wrong way..
    Last time successful..
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-06-2016 at 03:03 AM.
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  11. #11
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Thanks Bette.. Yea these PW's are sounding scarier and scarier definitely do not want become friends at all.

    I looked at the COWS again and I think I will hit the 26 pretty quick as well I really am thinking around 23/24 hours cause I do feel it coming pretty quick.

    I just made a doctors appointment for tomorrow morning so as of now I am on track, nervous about going in tomorrow and talk about all this with my doc.

    Hopefully I will be able to control taking last doses early evening tonight and being able to sleep till tomorrow.

    Thank you for all the encouragement and motivation to hit the 26.

  12. #12
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    OK. Now that we made you chit your pants, you're ready to go. Ha! It's just important to be careful. Inducting is the trickiest part. After that, if you stick to the plan used here you're going to be just fine.

    In your initial post, you asked about dosing times once you have successfully inducted. I'll answer that now for you. What are your work hours? It's best if you don't dose too close to bedtime. It should be a few hours before. Your work/sleep schedule will dictate when you're going to dose. For those who work daytime hours, in the beginning when your daily dose is more than 1mg/day, most take half their dose in the morning and the other 8-10 hrs later.

    Is the doctor you're seeing certified to prescribe sub? They need a special certification for that. If you aren't sure, you may want to call and find out. Or maybe your insurance requires a referral? Just don't want you to be ready to go and be disappointed.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  13. #13
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Definely find out about your dr if that is the way you are going to get your sub..
    If he is going to induce you he or she will probaly induce you to a high dose..

    Just do what they say..
    Get your prescription
    Then we can help you from there..

    The good thing about them inducing you on a high dose
    Is that they give you a big proscription..
    Usually way more than enough..
    Even though it seems kind of shady to
    To do that..
    You only have to do this 1. Time...

    It is your life not theirs..

    Most don't have a clue what we go through..

    Now you have a plan
    That you can stick too..
    The end result is awesom..
    Freedom from addictive addiction..

    Just remember the sub will never make you feel like
    You did
    On short addicting opiates..
    So you won't even have to waste your time ..
    Chasing that feeling..


    With sub less is more!
    A strange concept for most of us!
    I will be back later to see your posts..
    Bette

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    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Hey guys, my work schedule is not consistent at all! It changes constantly! Sometimes I work 6am - 4pm sometimes 3pm - 2am with random days off, we are coming up on 1 of our slow periods so I should be working an 8a-4p or like a 10a-6p so it'll be a little more consistent soon.

    My doctor does have subox one signs up all around the office so I am assuming he is licensed. You guys are def right about this induction process being tricky it is scary. I am hoping to induce myself around 6pm tomorrow I work 7p-12a and may be able to call out sick if it is needed, my significant other gets off at 10p tomorrow so will be home around 1030p so if I have to call out I'm hoping to be stable by then which gives me 4.5 hours. I usually go to bed around 2am.

    So say I stablize around 10pm I'd take half my stable dose when I wake the next day and the other half around the beginning of the evening? Until getting to 1mg then go to once a day?
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  15. #15
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Yea I'm scared of them inducing me cause I've read people getting induced high which I don't want from the horror stories I've read. I'd much rather do it myself instead of them. I can't feel those pw's I can't seem suspicious at all. Thanks so much for jumping in and helping out.

    If those pw's come how long do they last? Is a few hours? A day? 2 days? Thanks for jumping in!

  16. #16
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maninmirror View Post
    Hey guys, my work schedule is not consistent at all! It changes constantly! Sometimes I work 6am - 4pm sometimes 3pm - 2am with random days off, we are coming up on 1 of our slow periods so I should be working an 8a-4p or like a 10a-6p so it'll be a little more consistent soon.

    My doctor does have subox one signs up all around the office so I am assuming he is licensed. You guys are def right about this induction process being tricky it is scary. I am hoping to induce myself around 6pm tomorrow I work 7p-12a and may be able to call out sick if it is needed, my significant other gets off at 10p tomorrow so will be home around 1030p so if I have to call out I'm hoping to be stable by then which gives me 4.5 hours. I usually go to bed around 2am.

    So say I stablize around 10pm I'd take half my stable dose when I wake the next day and the other half around the beginning of the evening? Until getting to 1mg then go to once a day?
    First,you could tell your doctor that you don't think you are in full withdrawal yet and that you've read enough to know that you need to be in full withdrawal before taking your first dose. The problem is that he might tell you to go sit and wait because he wants to induct you there, well just go with the flow. Don't question or worry about what size dose he gives you. Just get your script, get outta there, fill it and come back here and someone will get you on the right path. NO worries!! What time is your appointment? Check in as soon as you're done. I'll try to watch for you. I've got work appointments and will be away from my puter from around 10 til noon but can peek in after that.

    I mentioned the time to dose only to point out two things. The first is to be consistent and dose at the same time everyday--no matter what your work schedule is. Half a dose and 8-10 hrs later the second half. Some folks dose once a day right out of the gate but most just prefer to dose twice a day until they get to 1mg. It's just a matter of preference. The half life is so long that even if you did choose to dose once a day, you'd be covered. I think at least a part of it is our "habit" to dose and it's comforting to know we have a dose waiting for us later in the day. Ya know? Nothing wrong with that and that would be my choice at the beginning.

    Now that we've got you scared of the PW, do your best to stay away from your pills until your appointment!!!

    Peace,

    Cat

  17. #17
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Thanks Cat! My appointment is at 10:15am I'm on pacific time. My doctor is pretty cool for the most part I'm not sure he'll have me wait, I'm hoping not. We talk about some pretty deep stuff at times so I think he sees me as pretty smart but who knows after this.

    Thanks so much though! Ive never taken it this serious and am quite nervous but feel pretty dedicated at this point, I feel as long as I can make it through the night with some sleep I think I can push through tomorrow. I'm thinking at this point I may have to call in to work tomorrow, though it's a little bit of an important short shift, tomorrow is really looking like my best oppurtunity since my significant other won't be home until Wednesday night though I work weds late afternoon I'm thinking I should be good by then even if hitting the dreaded pw's.

  18. #18
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maninmirror View Post
    Thanks Cat! My appointment is at 10:15am I'm on pacific time. My doctor is pretty cool for the most part I'm not sure he'll have me wait, I'm hoping not. We talk about some pretty deep stuff at times so I think he sees me as pretty smart but who knows after this.

    Thanks so much though! Ive never taken it this serious and am quite nervous but feel pretty dedicated at this point, I feel as long as I can make it through the night with some sleep I think I can push through tomorrow. I'm thinking at this point I may have to call in to work tomorrow, though it's a little bit of an important short shift, tomorrow is really looking like my best oppurtunity since my significant other won't be home until Wednesday night though I work weds late afternoon I'm thinking I should be good by then even if hitting the dreaded pw's.
    Stop worrying about the PW. You've got the right idea. This is important. Don't take anything more now. You'll probably have a hell of a night but it'll be worth it. Score yourself before you go to the doctor. You'll probably be really uncomfortable but in this case, that would be great! Don't take any comfort meds because they'll just make it harder to score yourself accurately. You're taking such a high amount right now that I'm guessing it won't take you long to hit that 26. Once you begin to induct, you'll be right as rain in a very short time. I'm in NE so I'm ahead of you time wise. I should be at my computer by the time you're at the doctor. I'll also check in early tomorrow morning. Probably around 7:30 my time which makes it, what? 4:30 your time?

    This is going to work out. Your job is to get good and sick. Sorry I'm a wise azz.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  19. #19
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    It's ok you're a wise one! Lol. I took my last dose 2 hours ago, on my way home now. I feel ok other than knowing I am going to go through with this. I'm pretty sure I will be able to sleep though I have anxiety about the situation. Thinking I will go to bed around midnight hopefully sleep till around 9am then wake up for the doctor.

    I will score myself before but I don't think it'll be that high if I can sleep usually start feeling it an hour after waking up. I took my evening dose about 2.5 hours earlier today to give me a head start. I will check in probably before the doctor cause I'm sure I'm going to be really nervous about spilling the beans I can feel the anxiousness running through me now thinking of walking in there to talk about this.

    We'll see how that goes and will check in afterwards! Thanks for being there it's truly great support.

  20. #20
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Good Luck,

    Check in before you leave to let us know how you're doing. I'll be thinking of you and hope you had a good night. How long will it have been since your last dose? 12 hrs or so? If you're not scoring high enough, don't dose until you are. I hope the doctor allows you to leave with your script. Then fill it and high tail it back here. I'll try to be around for you while you go through this.

    Peace,

    Cat

  21. #21
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Good morning..
    Checking to see how you are..
    I too have a Drs appt at 09:30 pacific time..
    But will check in after I get home..

    Cats suggestions are spot on..
    I will be around today too..

    Hop on here and let us know how you are
    Good
    Bad
    Or
    Indifferent..



    Your plan is in effect..
    Let's do this and get it over..

    You will be so happy you did..


    Getting off those pills is amazing
    And your first step to a
    A new way of life!
    Bette
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-07-2016 at 10:54 AM.

  22. #22
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Well I woke about 20 mins ago I didn't want to wake up cause I was really tired cause it was hard to sleep cause doing this was all I was thinking about. I just woke up so I'm feeling ok just a little sluggish.

    I am in my car on the way to my appointment now.. Just nervous about going in there talking about this and worried he'll make me stay I wanna get it and get to the comfort of my home and your guys support.

    I will check in afterwards... Thanks!

  23. #23
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    So unfortunately when I scheduled my appointment I told them I felt like I was getting sick and didn't say the real reason, I know I should of but I gave myself a way out to cancel and say I felt better. But with your guys support I have managed to get myself here. He said he scheduled me for a 15min and sub appointments take anywhere from 30-60 at least 30 mins and he has another new one right now that came in. So he said I just gotta wait in the room until they can fit me in.
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  24. #24
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maninmirror View Post
    So unfortunately when I scheduled my appointment I told them I felt like I was getting sick and didn't say the real reason, I know I should of but I gave myself a way out to cancel and say I felt better. But with your guys support I have managed to get myself here. He said he scheduled me for a 15min and sub appointments take anywhere from 30-60 at least 30 mins and he has another new one right now that came in. So he said I just gotta wait in the room until they can fit me in.
    How are you feeling? Did you or are you going to score yourself with the COWS? I'm so glad that he's agreeing to squeeze you in. Walk around if you have to. I know how antsy we get. The extra time may just be a blessing but I do understand that this must be soooo hard.

    I'll check in later. I'm in the office right now but will be home and have easier access to this site within an hour.

    Peace,

    Cat

  25. #25
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    I'm feeling ok but I can feel it starting to come I just started getting andy though I'm holding it together right now, my eyes are pretty dry for some reason, my knees are starting the thing they normally do when it's coming, and starting to get warm, at the moment I can hold it together. I haven't done cows yet I guess I can do that now.

  26. #26
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    Really low right now like a 6 but it will come pretty soon.

  27. #27
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    So I got out of there without induction, he said he thinks I'll need 16mg a day. He wrote me for a week. I have to go see him next Tuesday they normally don't use insurance for sub appointments so his compromise was if I come in more often he'll just charge like its a normal visit so in the long run it will save me a lot of cash. I'm on my way to fill then heading to the comfort of home with my puppy. I am still feeling ok for the most part.

    It was really hard but I've gotten that far. Weird I got in my car after put on my fav song at the moment and started crying it really sounded so amazing at that moment.

    I'll check in soon. Thank you guys!
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  28. #28
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maninmirror View Post
    So I got out of there without induction, he said he thinks I'll need 16mg a day. He wrote me for a week. I have to go see him next Tuesday they normally don't use insurance for sub appointments so his compromise was if I come in more often he'll just charge like its a normal visit so in the long run it will save me a lot of cash. I'm on my way to fill then heading to the comfort of home with my puppy. I am still feeling ok for the most part.

    It was really hard but I've gotten that far. Weird I got in my car after put on my fav song at the moment and started crying it really sounded so amazing at that moment.

    I'll check in soon. Thank you guys!
    OK. Everything went very well! Once your symptoms start, it probably won't take you long to reach that 26. While you still have steady hands cut your doses. I assume he gave you 8mg tablets? You're going to want to cut them so that you have a couple of .5mg pieces and the remainder of the pill cut into .25mg pieces. So, cut into 1/4 each piece would be 2mg. Cut those into 1/4 and you'll have .5mg. Place a couple of those aside and then cut the remaining pieces in half again so that you have .25mg pieces. You can understand that once your hands get shaky this just ain't gonna happen. You won't need more than that one pill to get stable.

    I'll keep checking on you. No comfort meds--they'll just mask your symptoms delaying the time you can induct. Score yourself honestly even being conservative. You haven't taken anything since yesterday? .

    Keep checking in. I'll try to watch for you so that I can help when the time comes. Hopefully Bette will be around too. We'll have your back. Huge congrats for getting into your doctors, being patient enough to wait for him, and telling him what's going on. We all know how hard that is!

    Peace,

    Cat

  29. #29
    Bugsmomma is offline Member
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    Just read your thread Man. Good luck!!
    Listen to Cat and Bette. You can do this!!
    I will keep checking your thread to follow your success!!

    Much love,
    Maggie

  30. #30
    Maninmirror is offline Member
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    I've had a couple wrenches thrown my way but have just pushed through them. Finally driving home will thoroughly update upon arrival at home base.

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