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Next move? Please help w/taper!
  1. #1
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Default Next move? Please help w/taper!

    I'm not sure what is going on or what to do next! I have been on suboxone for a yr and one month. I mostly only ever took to 1 to 2 mg a day (may have been a short bit of a little more). I made it a point to stay low, I was on suboxone before for 2 yrs until 2006 and jumped after tapering to 2 mg because I didnt know better, I did actually make it 3 months. I have also been on MMT twice (pretty much have barely been opiate free since 1998). I am the biggest whimp when it comes to withdrawal, so I am terrified!

    I am now down to .25 mg (last was .37). I havent felt a single thing until now! I tried .25 with anxiety, so I went back up for a little, tried again.
    This is day 3 at .25. The thing is I have absolutely no other symtoms but anxiety to the point I cant sleep at all. The past 2 nights I had anxiety and had a lot of trouble, but finally fell asleep and was fine. Tonight, nothing. It will not let up no matter what.

    My plan was this .25, then .125 for 10 days. Then .0625 for 14 days, and then do the skip days. Does that sound good?

    What should I do about this anxiety? Should it resolve soon?

    Also I only have 4.75 mg left and NO WAY to get any more. My plan called for only 6 more days at .25, I am concerned that isnt going to work now and I'll have to rearrange my whole plan and not get to go as low as I wanted. Now that is making me nervous!

    What can I do to alleviate this (I did move my dose from morning to 4 pm today to try and fix it, I stretched my dosing over 24 hours for 2 days to get there)?? Does anyone think I wil be ready to drop in 6 days?

    Again I feel completely normal as I sit here at 4 am. I just feel like I should lay down and sleep! As soon as I do, bam there it goes, heart pounding and mind racing. Now I'm terrified knowing I only have 4.75 left to work with!

  2. #2
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Your plan for tapering sounds good in my opinion. It is basically the same as I did a little over a month ago to get off the sub. What I found out during the taper was that you can get to a point of remaining too long on a particular dose, and become "lazy" in the process to a certain degree. NOT saying that's what you're doing here.

    I was having a few various symptoms as I got lower and lower in dose. I made the decision that if I was going to be having those symptoms while at a dose of .125mg - .25mg why should I continue to taper, or even skip days? Why not jump, and begin adding up clean days by getting it over with. Know what I mean? I'm not telling you what to do, just giving you MY experience with the process. Guess there comes a time when enough is enough and you have to make a decision. I personally think .25mg is plenty low enough to jump from.

    As far as the anxiety and insomnia goes, I see others recommending kava kava, valerian root, and chamomile tea to help with those issues. Hopefully someone will jump in here and offer other suggestions. You will receive tremendous support on this forum just as I have. Plenty of caring and wise members to help and support you through to the end and beyond.

    I would also highly suggest you make a plan for aftercare once the subs are finished. Getting clean is only half the battle, and the easier half at that. It's remaining clean that takes the brunt of the work, and you need to do everything in your power to keep relapse from happening. One way is getting involved in support group meetings such as NA/AA or one of the other meetings. A therapist could also be retained and some go that route. It's a lifetime battle for your life! Hope this is some help to you and I wish you the very best. Keep posting your progress and keep everyone updated. Posting really helps. You can do it!

  3. #3
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    You are right. I put it off at .5 and .375 longer than needed just because i could, then when i realized I had less than I wanted left i started, and quite possibly too late. After being completely stable and at .375 for a while (longer than needed) i wasnt expecting to run into problems already!
    I was debating about just jumping but I was really hoping to get down further. Again I am horrible at dealing with stuff like this and anything uncomfortable. Heck I pretty much never catch a cold, haven't had the flu since I was 7. I know no one likes to deal with this stuff, I just wonder if never feeling bad from anything makes it worse for me, or maybe I'm just a whimp in general!

    I think I'm putting off on the jump thinking it will get better soon considering all the more I'm feeling. I feel 100% normal (maybe slight anxiety during day, barely noticable) then when I shut my eyes. It would be nice to be able to predict the future! Even if it goes away today if it comes back in a couple days when I drop again then this waiting was worthless! God I hate the not knowing! I just want this to be as comfortable as possible.

    How low were you when you jumped? How bad was it and how long did it take to feel better?

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    I do have 2 10mg valium left from the dentist but I'm trying to Dave it for when it is definitely the end, and I don't like how it makes me feel the next day. I thought about going to the dr for clonidine but everytime I had it before it made me feel worse. I think maybe because I have low blood pressure, in withdrawal it gets into normal person range. I think clonidine gets it too low then I feel awful.

    I'm going to try and do something today. I am hoping that will get my anxiety down for tonight for sleep. I am now on the sixth and last day of my vacation, so I'm wondering if lying around relaxing the past 5 days has contributed to it being worse. Hopefully it will at least help a little if I burn some energy tonight I will sleep a little. I did not sleep I single minute last night, but otherwise feel fine. No chills, sweats, sneezing, yawning, fatigue or anything. Of course I do feel a little odd just from not sleeping, the same way I feel anytime I dont get enough sleep.

  5. #5
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    I was at .25mg comtemplating jumping, skipping days, or reducing lower. I was having a few symptoms including very little sleep. I made the decision to reduce to .125mg and see how that went. I also planned to skip days after that. It was on about my 5th or 6th day at .125mg that I gave it some serious thought. I thought to myself - if I'm going to be having symptoms anyway, why not have them while adding up the clean days. So I made the jump and never looked back! Was it easy - no, not that easy. But it wasn't THAT difficuly either. As I look back on it all now it was very easy. Lol. I'm so glad I made the decision to get it over with and begin enjoying life without being chained to a pill, subs, or other substance.

    The first week after making the jump did present some symptoms. It's only natural if you think about it. But I was on the sub for about 9 months, and at a high dose of 8mg before my taper began. So I had quite a build up of sub in my system due to the very long high life this drug has. I've been an addict for many, many years, and my tolerance was very high. So to think it ONLY took me a few weeks to feel 100% better was a very small price to pay in my opinion.

    As I said the first week was a little problematic, but each day got better and better. At about 3 weeks I was feeling so much better! And now at a little over a month clean and free I've never felt better in my life! I would think that with your time on subs, and the level of dose you were at the highest would give you fewer symptoms than I had, but it's sooo difficult to judge as everyone is different. You could feel better in a week, maybe more, just too hard to figure. There is no easy way out.

    You can drive yourself nuts deciding what to do next. Your brain tells you to keep going to avoid symptoms, and you are caught in the middle decising what to do - jump or not?

    I guess the bottom line is would you rather continue to have symptoms using or clean? It has to be YOUR decision and I can't tell you what to do. I can only give you my own experience and what I've learned along the way. I will tell you now that if it were ME where you are right now based on everything you have said - I would definitely jump and get it over with - and begin enjoying life clean and free! My opinion only!

  6. #6
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopesoon View Post
    I am now on the sixth and last day of my vacation, so I'm wondering if lying around relaxing the past 5 days has contributed to it being worse.
    YES, lying around is about the worse thing you can do. You need to stay as busy as you possibly can. And get out of the house as much as possible. I NEVER sat around watching the clock. I worked in the yard and my garden the entire day when I had days off work and weekends. I go to the gym 3-4 days a week to work out, and I go for walks and jog. That gets you endorphins moving naturally, and also helps tire you out so you can get a tiny bit of sleep. The sleep always seems to be the last symptoms to get back to a normal pattern. Most everyone here will tell you the sleep is the most bothersome symptom, but it does return. It just takes a little time so try and realx if you can.

    I myself would not touch the valium. It's my opinion to not take a highly addictive drug to get off a drug. It sorts defeats the purpose. Get out and get moving - you will notice a difference!

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Yeah, I'm not crazy about the valium, and I hate the way I feel most of the next day. Yes, lying around is a horrible habit of mine. I do it alot when I'm off of work, for years now. Like I said the first nights I had trouble falling asleep but finally would and slept 8 hrs. That coupled with the way I feel totally fine during the day and have no other symptoms I think I was expecting it to get bettereach day at this dose (not worse like last night). That is why I didn't think about relaxing yesterday.

    And of course now that it is daylight I feel like I could fall sleep. I don't know whether to take a quick nap of I can or not. I don't want it to make it harder to fall asleep tonight. At the same time if I don't take advantage of it while I can and then still can't fall asleep tonight I will be so mad that I didn't take the chance while I had it since I work tomorrow. I guess I'll see what happens. I feel like a newborn that has their days and nights mixed up!

    How long were you on .25mg before you tried the .125mg? And did you stabilize at the .25 mg before trying the .125mg?

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    I think it is because I haven't slept but the anxiety is intensifying. Well I mean I am actually feeling it when I'm not trying to sleep now. I'm going to try and go for a long walk today. This is becoming not fun, I can't imagine it getting worse (well I can but I cant imagine dealing with this worse while working right now). Hopefully my anxiety is just intensified from not sleeping, and I know I feel crappier in general from not sleeping a wink.
    I told you I am a whimp with withdrawal. I've never been good with withdrawal. I've felt a lot worse in my life than I do now. I dont know if I am panicing because of memories from jumping off this at 2mg (after about 2 yrs at 12mg) 8 yrs ago, and I've done longterm MMT twice (last time was may 2013, i tapered low but was so determined to be done and get it over with that 3 days after my last dose i got the bright idea to take naltrexone and just get it done, yeah bad choice).Maybe those bad memories have me scared to death and expecting worse? I dont know.

    freaking out and pulling out all the stops to try and stabilize on this soon I decided I would try to take .125 now, and .125 later. I do not want to go up as I only have a little bit left. I doubt splitting the dose will help but.... I was finally starting to feel RLS (still nothing else but anxiety and >>>>>> from not sleeping). It has been 2 hrs and I think that dose only helped a little bit.

    I know the mind and how you perceive it matters. As of right now I feel my plan is ruined and I wanted to go down further. So now I'm panicing about not being ready. I have got to get my head around this quick and accept I might have to be done earlier.

    Sorry about my rant! I dont know what to try to do next and my mind is racing with this anxiety.

    Does anyone know, well I know there is no way to know, but is there a chance that I could stabilize soon. I just really hope to go down one more drop at least before jumping. And of course I only have 4.75 left so that is pushing it.

  9. #9
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there. In your last post you asked when you would stabilize. Actually, it seems that you are already stable, and have been for some time. "Stable" means having little or no physical withdrawal symptoms. Did you mean something else when you said "stabilize"?

    Most of us tend to get very anxious when it's time to jump off Sub after tapering. Our mind races and we think the worst. Maybe that's what's happening to you. Try to relax. Do some deep breathing. Above all: stay active and busy.

    After your drop to .125, I think you would be just fine doing "skip" days (according to Robert's taper plan) and then jumping off. It's all psychological/mental at this point. Believe that everything will be ok.

    I'm rooting for you. All the best.
    Kat
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  10. #10
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Hello thanks for your reply.
    I guess I was thinking I wasnt stable because I had never been at a high dose, and also had been perfectly fine at .375 for a while. I was not expecting anything with this drop! I had felt absolutely nothing from previous drops, no aches nothing. I wasnt expecting it and it hit me like a ton of bricks (I was expecting something at maybe .125 or somewhere lower).

    I think I freaked because I want expecting it like that. The first 2 nights I had anxiety and it was hard to fall asleep but once I did I was fine. I always took my dose in the morning, but over the course of those 2 days I pushed my limit to get it to evening thinking that would help me (usually I would take it early morn, the first night I had a problem I didnt dose the next day until about 1pm, then the next day <yesterday> I made myself wait until 4:30 pm). Maybe pushing those doses out when my body was already a little mad wasnt a good idea!

    Then last night I didn't sleep a wink. It was bad anxiety almost like my body was in shock. I especially didnt expect that after dosing late. I was trying yoga and google acupressure points to try and get my pounding heart rate down after my normal breathing didnt work.

    Then I think this morning I kind of panicked, especially because I felt weird from not sleeping, and not sleeping made my anxiety worse. I remember thinking oh god this is it, I'm in trouble.

    I tried to take only .125 this morning, waited 2.5 hours and it didnt seem to help so I took the other .125 as well (I had taken the whole .25 at once before). At the point I got an hours sleep, I dont want to sleep much and ruin my chances for tonight. I was telling myself I would take another .125 if I had to tonight but I really really dont want to. My body is obviously adjusting and I dont want to ruin in.

    As of now I feel pretty good again. I probably have the same anxiety I dont notice until I shut my eyes, then it ramps out of control.

    I think I'm going to go buy some valerian and whatever else I come across to help. Then I'm going to take a walk and burn some energy. Hopefully that allows me to get some sleep! If this works I'm going to sick this .25 out 3 more days, then go to .1875 for 7, then .125 for 10 then skip days. I will have enough for that, I'll just have to skip the .0625 I had planned.

    You would think .125 would be low enough... I hope!

    it seems valerian seems to be the best bet so hopefully it works!

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    I was reading through threads today. I dont remember who but someone was taking taurine to reduce blood pressure.
    I looked into it more and found out it also calms anxiety, due to supressing cortisol (which if I remember is extemely elevated during a detox) and adrenaline. Which in turn reduces anxiety.

    I bought some of that as well tonight, but of course then I read it can also cause anxiety sometimes. Does anyone have any experience with this?

  12. #12
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Valerian is good for sleep. I take Melatonin - 5 mg. Works like a charm after a hot bath or shower.

    Don't have much experience with Taurine. Give it a try.

    Hope this helps!
    Kat

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    And it is happening again. I really thought with help I would be able to sleep. The valerian isnt working. It has me feeling really weird but this anxiety is just too much. I cannot continue to get 0 sleep, I have to work etc! Previous times it would take a while but at least I could end up getting a couple hours. There still isnt much in the way of other symptoms but it is obvious my body is stressed by this.

    Does anyone have any idea how long this severe anxiety will last? Especially considering I'm still taking some. At this rate I'm terrified to drop again but I dont have much choice. I have 4.5 mg left.

    Surely this right now will be less I feel later? Right?
    I consider jumping all together but think as much as this sucks at least I'm not feeling everything else at the same time. Surelu this has got to fade soon? And then it won't quite be as bad when I actually do jump?

    I don't know, maybe I should go to a dr and try and get clonidine or something. Previously I never liked it but who knows.

    Any other suggestions?

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Finally I slept. I feel so much better today! Unfortunately I did cut a tiny piece off that I took last night, had to have been .0625 or less. I took forever to fall asleep, and the valerian had me feeling woosy and weird but didnt knock the anxiety out of me. It was such a weird feeling. At some point my heart quit pounding, I can breath and make it though the racing thoughts to fall asleep. Hopefully the valerian did that (I did take 1 more capsule later) and not the .0625.

    Of course I woke up and it took maybe 10 min to notice my heart still pounding at times, I was disappointed to feel it still there when thinking ahead about tonight but it doesn't bother me during the day. I am going to try the taurine today and see what that is about. And hopefully splitting my dose helps. I hoping that person was on to something with this taurine and it works for me too!

    Back to work today after 6 days off. Hopefully it goes well!

    I still have 8 more weeks of vacation I have to take before the end of May. Would it be wise to try and guess the end of this taper and take some (I mean I have my plan but if these drops don't work it will end sooner)? I have to schedule it at least 2 weeks prior.
    or would it be good to be working at the time for a distraction? I am trying to decide, I think I'm anticipating the I want to lay here and die kind of withdrawal but from what I see it probably wont be like that. Problem is I have that bad habit I mentioned of not doing too much when I'm off work. My husband will be working and I live in an apt so the eliminates having yard work or anything to do. Basically I dont have much to do! No children either.

    I worked that whole time when I jumped off 2mg years ago, wasnt fun. I also worked last year when I tapered down on methadone and decided to take a naltrexone to 1. see if I would even have withdrawal (they said it would be minimal to non-existent after tapering) 2. Get it over with if I did. I actually took the naltrecone right before I went to work. Stupid stupid horrible decision! Anyway both of these times were horrible and I think I keep imagining this time to be like that!

    I definitely have a more hope today. I feel good. Now to keep this anxiety under control tonight! I can do this

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    One other question. I keep reading about the importance or protein, and a high protein diet during this process. Is this really really important? I'm not a huge meat eater. I just dont like it, or really nuts either.
    About a week ago i went and got some ensure, i dont like the high protein kind so i got the regular which has 9 grams of protein. I got it just because i want to gain some weight. Hopefully that will supplement my protein well enough? I drink 2-4 a day (so 18-36 grams just from that).

  16. #16
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Sorry I haven't posted lately, just been really, really busy at work. And after work involves even more work as I like to stay EXTRA busy in my life working out and going to AA/NA meetings. No time to even think about drugs doing that!

    You are doing well - probably even better than you realize. I will tell you from experience that there is no EASY way out of this. No matter what you do, what you take, or what you wish, it just takes TIME to get anywhere back to what normal might be. It has to run it's course and then you slowly begin to feel better.

    Think of it as having a bad case of the flu. It starts out with a few symptoms, gets a little worse, then puts you down for the count, and finally things begin to get better and you slowly get back to where you were. Not exactly like that, but the idea is basically the same process.

    You are at a very low dose now - low enough to make your jump should you decide to do that. If you do taper lower I personally don't think you would have less symptoms. It is what it is. If you do want to go lower then by all means do it. We support you no matter what you decide to do

    Protein is important I believe. Protein shakes are very good, and the Ensure you're drinking will work just fine. Drink plenty of fluids, water especially to stay hydrated at all times to help flush the toxins out. You are doing great. Just keep doing what you're doing and try your best to relax. Once you commit to either tapering lower or jumping the stress and anxiety should begin to get much better. Take care and I'll check back later. Back to work I go!

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    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Well today want to bad. I felt really weird mentally the first half of the day. I did take 1 taurine this morning (you can take 2). I didn't notice a differnce this am with it (more on that later). I split my dose today and took .125 shortly after waking up. I felt unmotived, not tired but a little hard to move, like oh this is so hard to even reach down here to grab this binder. I had a very very cloudy feeling in my head. It really reminded me of how I felt 1.5-2 weeks off methadone. At the same time my heart would spuradically pound occasionally.

    I'm not sure if maybe it was after effects of the valerian? I say that because it lasted until around 4 pm. At that point I took my lunch and came home and took another taurine. I went back to work and shortly after I felt amazing! No more cloudy head, motivation back, slight depression gone.

    I actually felt so well I never took my other .125 until 6:30, and the only reason I did was because I didnt want to wait too late as sometimes on rare occasion they give me a ton of energy. I didnt want to take that chance, and I wanted to make sure I took it to stick to my plan. I feel more confident about dropping to .1875 friday.

    I'm not sure if the taurine works yet, this afternoon could have been a coincidence. I'll keep taking it and see, the bottle says to take it 2-3 times per day.

    And just a note. I do type all of these from my phone. Just wanted to mention that in case they look all crazy, mispellings etc. Sometimes I just keep typing my thoughts but can't see very far above to proofread!

  18. #18
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    The night of my last post I once again had trouble going to sleep, but it was better than previous nights. I only got about 4 hours. I could have slept more if I didnt have to get up at 4 am. The next day (yesterday) wasn't too bad. I did get a couple chills in the evening but that could just have been from being tired. I get periods of being cold when tired, I always have so I am pretty sure that was the culprit.

    Last night I had a tiny bit of trouble falling asleep, but must have slept from 10:30 pm to 5:30 am when my alarm went off. The anxiety started the first night of my drop, and the 3rd day was the worst and it is slowly subsiding since then. I felt a little run down today, when the previous days my anxiety kept me from feeling that way. I think it is about gone

    tomorrow I drop to .1875, I'm hoping it doesn't restart the anxiety cycle! I'm thinking it won't being that small of a drop. I think the problem with this last drop was that while I felt stable for several days in a row at .375, I still jumped up to .5 consistently. I had no good reason too, I just did. So I'm thinking maybe that is why the drop to .25 seemed to strike a little shock on my body. I typically seem to taper down on things easier than other people (at least that's what I noticed from the methadone clinic etc). Weight wise I can assume I have an almost over active metabolism as I would love to gain a few pounds.

    Well I just figured I would check in. Of to bed now. I have to work tomorrow.

    oh and I found a bottle of l-tyrosine I had from last year. I'm wondering if I should start taking it now or wait until I jump. I know it wouldn't hurt anything but does anyone think it would be beneficial to start now?

  19. #19
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Well today will be my third day at .1875. The first two days I did get a few chills, a couple sneezes, and my underarms and hands are sweating more. I did feel lazy on and off, like I don't have the strength to get a drink, but when I would make myself move I was fine. I am still taking the valerian etc before bed. Yesterday all of the sudden my heart is no longer pounding! Today I feel good. I feel like I might already be adjusting to this decrease even though it is only day 3 at this dose. Ideally I wish I could have had a couple more days at .25.

    I feel like I am starting to be less scared now. I have to say this taper is much easier than my last methadone taper. I would feel completely fine and stable on a dose for weeks and then all of the sudden my next tiny decrease would have me in full withdrawal.And I didn't even have as much trouble with my methadone taper as I would hear other people talking about.

    I think that's why I began to panic. At one time during my methadone taper I was fully nonfunctional. I was just waiting for this to me the same. This is mild. I can deal with this. I keep reading that the jump is fairly mild, but does it get alot worse than this or just a little bit? I can deal with this or even somewhat worse. Just not a huge amount worse.
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  20. #20
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    It's so good to hear that the anxiety/heart pounding is subsiding. Anxiety has got to be one of the worst symptoms/feelings when trying to come off pills/sub/etc. I'm sure some people handle it a little better than others, but for me it's something I dread. Once my mind goes to that place, it's really difficult to shut it off. I do a lot of deep breathing when anxiety hits to try to calm it down. I've tried meditation, too. Sometimes those things help, sometimes not.

    Anyway, I was really happy to read that you "felt good" today. Try not to fixate on the jump. I'm sure you will be just fine. I know, easier said than done..lol.

    You're doing great! Keep it up and this will all be over soon enough.

    Have a good night.
    Kat
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  21. #21
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Yes I definitely felt better today. The chills and sweating have subsided now as well not that they were even that bad compared to past experiences. The only thing I noticed at work today was waves of low energy, but as soon as I would make myself move it would go away, until I quit moving again! Yeah I want expecting that huge anxiety but again now that I look back I was never consistent on .375. I kept going up to .5 every couple days or so. Not because I felt bad, I just did because I could. I think that may have been why my body was so irritated.

    Of course now I've been trying to find what dose of suboxone would be similar to one mg of methadone. From what I can see as low as I plan on going should easily be it. I think the problem would be minimal. If I wouldn't have taken the naltexone last time I think I would have been fine. That was very stupid. It wasnt fun but it still wasn't as bad as I heard precipitated withdrawal can be.

    Hopefully things are going well for you. I keep glancing at your thread to see how your skip/jump is going. I am still not 100% but it I am leaning towards that taurine being a little help for calming my heart down. Maybe not completely but I feel it did help a little especially after a couple days consistently taking it.
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  22. #22
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Yesterday was great!!! While I was expecting that weak lazy feeling to stick around a little longer yesterday it to was gone. On day 4 of my drop to .1875 I felt 100% completely normal!!! Not the slightest symptom to speak of. When it was time to go to bed I decided to just try to go to sleep, no valerian root, benedryl etc. And sure enough I didn't need it. It didn't take me long to fall asleep. I decided I wanted to try and not take it so I don't get used to it in the meantime, I'm hoping that will give it a better chance to work when I will probably need it later. I don't know about the valerian but I know I have gotten used to benedryl before and needed to increase the dose. As I haven't had much restless leg yet I haven't been afraid to take benedryl.

    It was nice to feel 100% great yesterday but as I layed down for bed and started thinking about it I didn't know whether to be disappointed. When I first started feeling any symptoms I assumed I would feel a little something the whole way to the jump. So I kept telling myself so what, feeling it a little now means I'm starting to heal and now then end will be easier. Last night I started thing if I am barely feeling anything now does that mean I adjust and the end will be a little harder (obviously I know it wont be horrific from a low dose). I have no idea how that works. I just made myself believe feeling a little >>>>>> means I'm beginning to heal, and maybe the jump would be milder possibly.

    Of course I tell myself whatever I need to to keep myself going! Like times in the past when I would feel really bad I would think to myself "you're fine, you're imaging it. Get moving and quit being and idiot!" It helps unless I'm feeling really really bad, like full withdrawal from previous stuff. And of course I use the term idiot loosely, not like putting myself down, more like jokingly. Just wanted to clarify that!

    Now that this is going so well I really believe not being at .375 consistently is why my body didn't like the drop to .25. I'm really proud of myself of getting in the right frame of mind so quick. Not even 2 weeks ago I still carried a pair of tiny little kid scissors on me all the time, as I was still constantly making excuses to go cut a little piece to take.

    Now I know most people stop at .125 roughly. I really want to get to at least .0625, which my plan is to go from .125 to .0625 which is a 50% drop. Now I'm thinking maybe I should do a couple days at like .08-.09, I know a couple days isn't much but again I only have so much spare med, that I could do maybe 3 days at .08-.09. Or should I just do the 50% drop?

  23. #23
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Really good to hear you were feeling well yesterday! My advice is to continue the 25% drops and then do skip days as recommended by the taper plan. You'll have to figure out how low you can go depending upon what you have left. You're already at such a low dose, but dropping by 50% still isn't a good idea.

    Don't worry. It's gonna be ok. There will be some symptoms, but nothing you can't handle. Are you getting any exercise during the day? Even just a few brisk laps around the neighborhood everyday will help a lot. Drink lots of water to help flush your system. Have faith in the taper process.

    Lol..I'm sure we've all had to give ourselves a little "pep talk" from time to time. Mine sounds a lot like yours: "You're fine, quit fixating, get moving!"

    I took my last sub dose this morning. It's over, finally! Now the real work of staying clean begins...

    Talk to you soon.
    Kat
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  24. #24
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    Yeah, I kind of figured that 50% drop wasn't a good idea!
    Well I figured it out, as good as I feel now I'm assuming my next drop to .125 won't be a huge problem. So I figure hopefully this works
    7 days at .125
    4 days at .08-09 (roughly in between, hopefully those 4 days will ease the transition)
    Then 13 doses at .0625. 7 straight days then 6 extra doses for skip days (six just in case I only make it 36 hours the first time etc)
    At that point I will then still have .50mg left just in case I have to stay anywhere longer etc. I know for most people having the extra meds might be a temptation but for me I need to have the ability and not feel forced! That is when I run into trouble and my mind gets the best of me and freaks out. If it is still there when I make the jump I will obviously get rid of it and not keep it around but I'm the type of person that needs to go into it with the peace of mind that I won't be screwed. The trick will be not leaving it around too long.

    I am very weird that way. I can go hours and hours with not smoking a cigarette, but I'll smoke my last cigarette (not feeling like going to the store yet) and as soon as I put it out I am going crazy for another one! It's the knowing I can't or don't have that makes me crazy. I'm thinking 4 or 5 days in I'll get rid of any remaining.

    I have been trying to walk around. I'm on my feet all day at work and have now been making it a point to briskly walk around. I was thinking it is nice to have a dog to walk around but instead if I actually want exercise in going to have to take walks without him! He stops every couple feet and sniffs around. There is no way to get a pace going with him along!

    Water is the thing I have to figure out. I hate it! I know a lot of people say that but honestly it makes me gag!!! Unfortunately all I drink is coffee, soda, and now ensure. Even gatorade etc pushes my gag reflex. I do have those water flavor drops but still can't do it. Maybe some sort of fruit juice will be an option. Maybe cranberry? Or does that just clean the urinary tract....

    That is great you are jumping, I hope all goes well. I will keep peeking at your thread for updates! I'm excited to see how it goes. Good luck, although it doesn't seem like you'll need it!! It seems like you got this!

    Just out of curiosity, what were your skip days like? We're they way worse then you felt during your taper? A little worse or about the same? I know sleep was probably more of an issue but symptoms like sweating, chills etc?

  25. #25
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopesoon View Post
    Yeah, I kind of figured that 50% drop wasn't a good idea!
    Well I figured it out, as good as I feel now I'm assuming my next drop to .125 won't be a huge problem. So I figure hopefully this works
    7 days at .125
    4 days at .08-09 (roughly in between, hopefully those 4 days will ease the transition)
    Then 13 doses at .0625. 7 straight days then 6 extra doses for skip days (six just in case I only make it 36 hours the first time etc)
    At that point I will then still have .50mg left just in case I have to stay anywhere longer etc. I know for most people having the extra meds might be a temptation but for me I need to have the ability and not feel forced! That is when I run into trouble and my mind gets the best of me and freaks out. If it is still there when I make the jump I will obviously get rid of it and not keep it around but I'm the type of person that needs to go into it with the peace of mind that I won't be screwed. The trick will be not leaving it around too long.

    I am very weird that way. I can go hours and hours with not smoking a cigarette, but I'll smoke my last cigarette (not feeling like going to the store yet) and as soon as I put it out I am going crazy for another one! It's the knowing I can't or don't have that makes me crazy. I'm thinking 4 or 5 days in I'll get rid of any remaining.

    I have been trying to walk around. I'm on my feet all day at work and have now been making it a point to briskly walk around. I was thinking it is nice to have a dog to walk around but instead if I actually want exercise in going to have to take walks without him! He stops every couple feet and sniffs around. There is no way to get a pace going with him along!

    Water is the thing I have to figure out. I hate it! I know a lot of people say that but honestly it makes me gag!!! Unfortunately all I drink is coffee, soda, and now ensure. Even gatorade etc pushes my gag reflex. I do have those water flavor drops but still can't do it. Maybe some sort of fruit juice will be an option. Maybe cranberry? Or does that just clean the urinary tract....

    That is great you are jumping, I hope all goes well. I will keep peeking at your thread for updates! I'm excited to see how it goes. Good luck, although it doesn't seem like you'll need it!! It seems like you got this!

    Just out of curiosity, what were your skip days like? We're they way worse then you felt during your taper? A little worse or about the same? I know sleep was probably more of an issue but symptoms like sweating, chills etc?
    The taper schedule you suggested seems fine to me, especially considering you are working with a limited amount. You asked about my skip days. Well, they were difficult, but not horrible. Symptoms were more pronounced : sweating, achiness, anxiety, RLS, trouble sleeping, etc. But keep in mind, I've been on Sub a very long time, so I didn't expect it to be easy. I don't think you'll have much trouble at all. A lot of people find that the anxiety about skip days is worse than the actual event itself.

    So, water makes you gag? How bizarre. What is it about water that does that to you? Do you often get dehydrated? I really don't know what to suggest, except to say you should probably limit your caffeine intake if you don't drink water. Many believe that caffeine causes anxiety during detox/tapering.

    Thanks for the well wishes. Tomorrow is day 1!
    Kat
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  26. #26
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    Welcome here and congrats on getting so low in dose. I see my friend Kat is posting here and want to say she is awesome, amongst others here, to help you get through this. In my opinion the taper on down to the doses you are at now is like training for an event be it sports or academics. Gets you used to the end result a bit at a time. A soft landing is what it is designed for. One thing I notice and want to share is about the water. I can't agree more hydration is very important, not only to stay strong but also flush your system. Have you ever tried pedialyte? It tastes like a salty Gatorade and it definitely helped me on the tougher days of my taper. Hope this can help you!!

    Best wishes,
    Ken
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  27. #27
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    I was thinking about pedialyte. Last year when I quit methadone and took that naltrexone that first day I knew I was getting dehydrated, I could barely even urinate and it was dark. My husband drinks pedialyte sometimes, he has had a couple kidney stones so he tries to stay hydrated with water etc. Anyway we had some here so he made me drink some, it was very hard for me to do. But it's possible I had a hard time just because I felt so bad at the time. So I'm thinking of trying it again.

    My problem with gatorade is it is to bland, to close to water. I have those water flavor drops where you can add as much as you want. You wouldn't think adding a lot of flavor would defeat the purpose entirely.... I'm thinking worse case scenario it would be better than only the caffeine, sugar drinks I drink now.

    Besides the taper I've been hoping to find something to drink with less or no sugar (I put a ton in my coffee too). I just spent a fortune on dental work the past few months. Now that it is finally complete I'm trying to avoid more!!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-21-2014 at 09:18 PM.

  28. #28
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    I should add, I did get a little more medication today, so I can slow this down if needed. And I dont have to feel so rushed!! But I will NOT get into my old habits of taking a little more when I have a rough day, otherwise I'll just end up in the same predicament. I feel better than expected where I'm at now, there is no reason to. I do think I'll stay at this .1875 for a few, as it hasn't even been a week here yet. I feel very close to ready to drop but not quite.

    I will say anytime it gets rough, or the 1time I had a 1 second thought do take a little more I think of all you folks here. You have really helped me, and I finally feel I'm not alone. Not that no one in my life supports me, it's just different with people that understand!
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  29. #29
    hopesoon is offline Member
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    It has been a while since I checked in. I've been so busy. As crazy as it sounds I'm at .0625 mg, about to go to .03125 tomorrow. As small as that is considering it's from an 8 mg film I imagine most if not all of it is will be washed away without absorbing, especially considering the bioavailability to begin with. Who knows maybe it will be like jumping without even realizing it! I honestly feel pretty much 100% at .0625. Nothing much to complain about, I'm even sleeping fine.

    I know it may seem like I'm dragging this out going this low but if it works I'm happy.

    And Kat (if you see this) congratulations on doing it. I had stopped in a few times, I saw it seemed like it wasn't much fun for a bit. It looks like things are going better now though and that is great!

    The holiday break is over so I'm not sure how much time I will have. I will at least update at the jump.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-03-2015 at 08:47 PM.
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  30. #30
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopesoon View Post
    It has been a while since I checked in. I've been so busy. As crazy as it sounds I'm at .0625 mg, about to go to .03125 tomorrow. As small as that is considering it's from an 8 mg film I imagine most if not all of it is will be washed away without absorbing, especially considering the bioavailability to begin with. Who knows maybe it will be like jumping without even realizing it! I honestly feel pretty much 100% at .0625. Nothing much to complain about, I'm even sleeping fine.

    I know it may seem like I'm dragging this out going this low but if it works I'm happy.

    And Kat (if you see this) congratulations on doing it. I had stopped in a few times, I saw it seemed like it wasn't much fun for a bit. It looks like things are going better now though and that is great!

    The holiday break is over so I'm not sure how much time I will have. I will at least update at the jump.
    Hey! It's so good to hear from you. So looks like you were able to get more Sub over the last 4 months? You're at a minuscule dose, lol. And since you're feeling good, make the jump! Don't be afraid.

    I'll check back soon...
    Kat
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