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Please help. Advice needed.
  1. #1
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Default Please help. Advice needed.

    Hello all. I have lurked these forums for a while before posting. Now I would like to share my experience, a little history about me, and seek some advice. I'm a 32 year old male, and a father. I'm a master mechanic for a living, own my own home and overall, am pretty successful. About 8 months ago I severely hurt my back at work. I was prescribed 5mg Percocet tablets for a long time. For the first few months, I strictly adhered to my doctors recommendations about taking my medicine. Well fast forward 7 months and here I am with the most of us that ended up on here. I am currently dependent upon the medication, and my daily intake has risen astronomically. I am currently anywhere from 90-120 mg a day of Percocet. Give or take. My back issue has long since been resolved, and I want nothing more than to get off this medication for good before I really spiral out of control like some friends that I have. Unfortunately, those friends introduced me to the wonderful world of the blue devils. I have only messed with them a little bit, but have decided I'm done with them. My daily ritual included waking up, having my coffe, taking one blue, then going to work. I get to work about 8am. From there at about 930 I would take a half of a blue. About two weeks ago, I started blowing them(snorting). I would only snort at max 4 halves, so 60mg total throughout the day. They gave me energy and I worked so much more efficiently in this body killing field I'm in. The normal aches and pains in my legs and back were masked. I would then eat lunch, and orally take another blue. When I'm at home, I would only take one more before bed. I'm ready to stop this habit, and every time I try to taper down it doesn't work. I recently got some suboxone and have read through Roberts taper plan and many more on here that have had success with a short term sub taper. Only problem is I'm scared to death of subs. I only want to take them for the duration of the opiate withdrawal, to be able to still work and function. If I had time off I would just take a week and tough out a ct detox. Which I have done before. So here I am asking for advice on which route y'all think I should take. When I look at my son and my girlfriend, I feel really guilty and they depend on me. She's a stay at home mom with my boy, and I financially take care of all of us. And as many of you know, the cost of this has gotten out of control. I haven't got to the point of not paying bills, or anything like that, but I've seen many get to that point and want to nip this in the butt now. Thanks in advance guys and girls, any advice is appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Z!
    Welcome. If you think you could be clean in a week CT, that's what i would do if it was me. Subs can take a while, are expensive, and you still have to taper off the subs in the end.
    It's never a convenient time to detox.
    What's a week? You said you've done it before.
    What do you think?
    Check out the Thomas Recipe (minus the benzos unless already on them). Google it.
    Comfort meds for CT. Imodium too.
    Just mho...
    Catrina and Ehm n Ehms like this.

  3. #3
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Yea in the past since I haven't used them long, I have stopped and the most brutal symptoms are gone in a week. What drives me crazy, is the rls, and the insomnia. I have anxiety issues anyways even before all this took place. I was involved in a home invasion back when I was 20, and fought off three armed guys, but barely escaped with my life and now have a long list of medical issues from that as well. I dunno. I just have never taken as much as I have before when going cold turkey. Back then I was probably only doing 40-50mg a day, and not anymore

  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome,

    I can tell you that if you are taking around 90-120 mg/day cold turkey would be about the same as 60. The duration and symptoms about the same. I've tried about every method that exists (except subs or methadone) to detox. Tapering never worked. I paid thousands of dollars for Rapid Detox which worked but I was right back to using by the end of about 6 months. Cold Turkey stinks. No doubt about it but it is absolutely the quickest way to get clean. No matter what method you choose, recovery work remains the same.

    I've been around these boards for six years now when I had my last day 1. I've seen countless people try a "quick taper" for subs. It almost never works. The odds are pretty low and the withdrawal worse than what you'd be up against. This is not to say that subs aren't a great tool to get clean but only if you do it properly. You would first have to abstain from all opiates and any comfort meds such as benzos, Immodium, all over the counter stuff until you are in moderate to severe withdrawal before taking your first dose of subs. For some people, that's 24 hours but for others it can be as much as 48 or more hours. My point is that if you have to do a couple days of detoxing, then you'd be just about half way through it. So why not go for it? If you have the means and the desire to do a proper sub taper, you'll get great advice here in order to do it right in the shortest amount of time.

    Tapering. Yeah. I was an utter failure at that. Gobble. Gobble.

    It's a whole lot better on this side of things. I'll tell you that much.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  5. #5
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    Welcome,

    I can tell you that if you are taking around 90-120 mg/day cold turkey would be about the same as 60. The duration and symptoms about the same. I've tried about every method that exists (except subs or methadone) to detox. Tapering never worked. I paid thousands of dollars for Rapid Detox which worked but I was right back to using by the end of about 6 months. Cold Turkey stinks. No doubt about it but it is absolutely the quickest way to get clean. No matter what method you choose, recovery work remains the same.

    I've been around these boards for six years now when I had my last day 1. I've seen countless people try a "quick taper" for subs. It almost never works. The odds are pretty low and the withdrawal worse than what you'd be up against. This is not to say that subs aren't a great tool to get clean but only if you do it properly. You would first have to abstain from all opiates and any comfort meds such as benzos, Immodium, all over the counter stuff until you are in moderate to severe withdrawal before taking your first dose of subs. For some people, that's 24 hours but for others it can be as much as 48 or more hours. My point is that if you have to do a couple days of detoxing, then you'd be just about half way through it. So why not go for it? If you have the means and the desire to do a proper sub taper, you'll get great advice here in order to do it right in the shortest amount of time.

    Tapering. Yeah. I was an utter failure at that. Gobble. Gobble.

    It's a whole lot better on this side of things. I'll tell you that much.

    Peace,

    Cat
    I would do what Cat says. She's right. You would have to wait til you hit a 26 on the Cows Scale (assesses how deep in wd you are) before taking the subs or you risk putting yourself in precipitated wds---the absolute worst wds ever. Since you say it takes u a week to kick, and you'd have to wait til full wd (several days perhaps) to take subs, why not just quit?
    What's a week to a guy who single-handedly fought off 3 home invaders?
    You can do this.

  6. #6
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Physically I'm a very strong person. Mentally I wish a little bit stronger but can handle my own. A buddy of mine who takes almost 500-600mg a day says he never waits to take subs and has never had an issue. I've read a few threads on here where people dose their last oxy dose at night, go to sleep then dose sub soon as they wake with no issues. That's where I'm at now. Today in the am have had nothing, since yesterday evening at 7pm. Feeling pretty crummy and have to go to work today swinging wrenches very physical job
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  7. #7
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrated89 View Post
    Physically I'm a very strong person. Mentally I wish a little bit stronger but can handle my own. A buddy of mine who takes almost 500-600mg a day says he never waits to take subs and has never had an issue. I've read a few threads on here where people dose their last oxy dose at night, go to sleep then dose sub soon as they wake with no issues. That's where I'm at now. Today in the am have had nothing, since yesterday evening at 7pm. Feeling pretty crummy and have to go to work today swinging wrenches very physical job
    Zrated
    I hope that holds true for you too! Post how it's going. Hope work goes well for you today.

  8. #8
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Hey Ming thanks for the encouragement. I broke down today at work. I'm the only tech here and we're slammed. I waited 18 hours since my last 15mg oxy does back at 7pm last night. I waited until 12:22 to take my first dose. I!l admit I'm scared to death of subs from everything I've read on here, and how many people went into pwd. I started low only a piece of a 8mg sublingual strip totaling 2mg. About 15 mins later, I felt a little better, but back, legs are still really hurting, and my pupils are still quite dilated. It's now 1:58, I'm wondering if I should take another 2mg to total four and see how I feel. I'm thinking my induction at 4mg will suffice. Please advise. I only plan to take the subs for 5 days. If I stabilize at 4mg today, tomorrow I'm going to do 3mg, next day 2 and so on until I jump. Main goal was to help with the acute withdrawals since I have no time off from work and work a very physical demanding job. Thanks for the advice guys you've been a great help
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-09-2016 at 02:01 PM.
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  9. #9
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming23 View Post
    Zrated
    I hope that holds true for you too! Post how it's going. Hope work goes well for you today.
    Ming this is the thread on here I found really encouraging and want to do exactly as he did. Since he had success with it.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...tox-57943.html

  10. #10
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrated89 View Post
    Hey Ming thanks for the encouragement. I broke down today at work. I'm the only tech here and we're slammed. I waited 18 hours since my last 15mg oxy does back at 7pm last night. I waited until 12:22 to take my first dose. I!l admit I'm scared to death of subs from everything I've read on here, and how many people went into pwd. I started low only a piece of a 8mg sublingual strip totaling 2mg. About 15 mins later, I felt a little better, but back, legs are still really hurting, and my pupils are still quite dilated. It's now 1:58, I'm wondering if I should take another 2mg to total four and see how I feel. I'm thinking my induction at 4mg will suffice. Please advise. I only plan to take the subs for 5 days. If I stabilize at 4mg today, tomorrow I'm going to do 3mg, next day 2 and so on until I jump. Main goal was to help with the acute withdrawals since I have no time off from work and work a very physical demanding job. Thanks for the advice guys you've been a great help
    Zrated
    Nope. Two mgs might be too high of an initial dose. It is recommended that one induct at .5 mg (half of one mg). Then, you Wait 90 minutes. How do you feel now? It's been 2 hours. If not comfortable or still in wds, u can increase the dose slowly in .25mg increments. You wait an hour in between taking those .25 mg slivers to see if you're feeling better.
    Subs are VERY strong. If you start at a high number, you will suffer more not less. See if the 2 mg holds you.
    Post when u can...
    You don't want to keep increasing dose by 2 mgs!!!! .25 mgs!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-09-2016 at 02:45 PM.

  11. #11
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming23 View Post
    Zrated
    Nope. Two mgs might be too high of an initial dose. It is recommended that one induct at .5 mg (half of one mg). Then, you Wait 90 minutes. How do you feel now? It's been 2 hours. If not comfortable or still in wds, u can increase the dose slowly in .25mg increments. You wait an hour in between taking those .25 mg slivers to see if you're feeling better.
    Subs are VERY strong. If you start at a high number, you will suffer more not less. See if the 2 mg holds you.
    Post when u can...
    You don't want to keep increasing dose by 2 mgs!!!! .25 mgs!!
    The 2mg didn't hold me. I was still in some withdrawal. So I took another 2mg after I posted, but before your post, and I've been fine all day. It's been 8 hours and I'm supposed to take some more right around now what do u think I should take ?
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  12. #12
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    So to be clear, I've have a total of 4mg today so far. I was thinking about trying 2mg tonight (now) then tomorrow am stay around 2mg am and 2 before bed and wean down from there

  13. #13
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrated89 View Post
    So to be clear, I've have a total of 4mg today so far. I was thinking about trying 2mg tonight (now) then tomorrow am stay around 2mg am and 2 before bed and wean down from there
    Zrated
    Nope. Stay on the 4mg, if i were you. Firstly, don't dose three times a day.
    Secondly, If u find you're comfortable that is, little to no wds on the 4 mg. then stay there. It is strongly suggested that doses should be taken 8-10 hours apart to keep the sub in system.
    How's it going today?

  14. #14
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming23 View Post
    Zrated
    Nope. Stay on the 4mg, if i were you. Firstly, don't dose three times a day.
    Secondly, If u find you're comfortable that is, little to no wds on the 4 mg. then stay there. It is strongly suggested that doses should be taken 8-10 hours apart to keep the sub in system.
    How's it going today?
    Hey Ming. Just got up about 9. I only took 1mg last night instead of two. So I only had a total of 5mg. To induct. Think I'm going to try to stay on 1mg in the am and 1mg around 6 for a day or two and decrease from there. Like I said. Only doing this short term. Didn't sleep much last night maybe a few hours but my son was being fussy too and I'm sure the small amount of sub is masking the opiaye withdrawls which is what I wanted. No restless legs or anything like that though which is good. I'll stay updated.
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  15. #15
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    zrated
    Best of luck to you. If you hit rough patch, post how it's going.

  16. #16
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Been doing good. Today I dropped from 1mg in the am and evening to .5mg this am and back at about 5pm. Felt fine all day. A little lack of energy, but I also turned 67 hours this week at work. So probably just physically tired lol. Gonna maintain the .5 tomorrow, then drop to .25 Thursday. Which will be a week since my last 15mg of oxy.
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  17. #17
    TampaFlorida is offline Member
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    Hello
    Seems like you doing good so far. Do you have any plans what you will do after the detox is done? Recovery wise I mean. Having a friend that takes 600mg is very tempting.
    Let us know how you doing. Ming knows what she's talking about. Her advise is always spot on.

  18. #18
    zrated89 is offline New Member
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    Won't be around him anymore lol. Going to stay busy with work, and stay around family which has been huge for me

  19. #19
    MonicaSwift is offline New Member
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    Hi, I just want to give you some general advice to help you with your transition, I helped my son get off of subs by giving him the advice I will give you. While you are cutting back and reducing your intake, one of the issues of withdrawl is leg pain, the reason for this is because you are severely deficient in magnesium. Magnesium performs over 300 metabolic functions in the body and when you take any phamaceutical or otc drug it is greatly reduced, magnesium is known as the relaxation mineral and it primarily resides in our muscles, when it is lacking because of pharmaceuticals or poor food choices, muscles will tense up because calcium will leach out of your bones and move into muscles, arteries and organs, calcium then hardens and constricts these muscles, arteries and organs and it causes pain. The way to combat this is to take a epsom salt bath several times a week, also the best magnesium supplement doesn't come in a pill form but it is a spray for your body called magnesium oil, some mag oils make you itch and sting, I make one that doesn't because I add in msm which is a sulpher. Do some research on magnesium deficiency you will see several symptoms there that you will relate to, magnesium also helps alleviate depression symptoms. The other thing you need to get is a good nights sleep, at any health food store you will find a tincture or extract called California Poppy, take 2-4 dropperfuls in a splash of water and you will sleep like a baby. Good luck !

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