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Please help! Im stuck on suboxone!
  1. #1
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Default Please help! Im stuck on suboxone!

    Hello,

    I will give a little background info about myself. 6 years ago i started taking anywhere from 5-25 Norcos 10/325 everyday for 4 years. Finally last year i had enough and went saw a doc to get on suboxone. She induced me at 8mg the first day and from there on had me on a VERY SLOW taper for 8 months. I was sick and tired of waiting to get off sub so i came here and saw roberts taper plan. I followed it to the tee and i was able to get myself off the sub by tapering down all the way to .125 mg and then jumping off.

    Sadly to say i ended up relapsing for about 4-5 months of mixed 30mg roxie (2-5/day) and Norco (10-12/day) use varying day by day depending on what i can get my hands on. I went back to the doc and once again got on the sub therapy. This time she didnt give me any guidence she didnt tell me how to induce or stabilize myself so me trying to be smart i started with the lowest dose that would keep me going on a daily basis. I started off at 2mg suboxone daily. its been about a month or month and a half and i've been stuck on 2 mg dose daily. I usually dose one time in the morning and take the full 2mg however lately towards the afternoon i start feeling sick and tired.


    This is where I am stuck. I don't know if i should just completely stop taking the suboxone for 2-3 days and wait to get to the score of 26 and properly induce myself following roberts plan or should i continue taking the 2mg or should i increase my dosage.

    Its been 36 hours since my last dose of 2mg suboxone and i wanted to just stop and start over but I also want some guidance from this community as i have been reading a lot of posts here and there are many well educated/experienced people on here. I know that Robert dosent post here anymore but can someone with as much knowledge please help me get off this devil drug. I just want to feel normal again. I am a musician and its sooo hard to be creative when you are feeling down and >>>>ty. I also do work in the morning but my schedule is very adaptable.

    I think what makes the most sense to me is to stop completely taking the 2mg and wait until go into full blown relapse again and properly induce myself the correct way. The problem that I am having is roberts plan says to wait until you are at a 26 on the cows sheet but i seen to only get up to score of 16-18 after 36 hours of last 2mg usage. Can someone please guide me as to what to do. If you need more information please ask and I will be more then happy to provide it to you. If its possible i would like to continue on the 2mg a day if it will stabilize me properly but if not I am willing to wait it out until i hit 26 on the cows sheet as it has already been 36 hours since my last 2mg dosage.

    Please I need everyone's input as to what to do. Continue taking the 2mg dosage that i have been taking daily or completely stop and start over and do it correctly. I am open to suggestions because the 2mg isn't working for me.

    After 36 hours of last dosage on 2mg for the past 2 months the score that i get on the cows is:
    heart rate=86 score 1
    sweating= 2
    restlessness=1
    pupil size= 1
    bone ache=2
    runny nose=4 (constantly sniffing and eyes watery)
    GU upset= 2
    tremor= 1
    yawning=4 (yawning every 10 minutes)
    anxiety=2
    gooseflesh skin=0.
    total score= 19


    Please Help me and guide me to let me know what is the best route to take. Im am willing to listen 100% and do everything correctly so i can do this once and for all and leave this dark times in the past. If you guys know of anyone that can help me as good as robert did for others please let me know so i can get in contact with them and get some help.


    Thank you guys.
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  2. #2
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey there. I just replied to your other thread. You should stick to this one since this is the Suboxone board.

    Kat

  3. #3
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Great thank you so much! i will read the other thread and then from there on post here only. The problem is that the 2mg that i take in the morning around 9 a.m. (only dose i take throughout the day) holds me up for a couple hours and then i start feeling tiredness and my nose starts to become runny by about 5 p.m. I have also tried splitting the dose into 2 separate doses. i tried taking 1mg at 9 a.m. and another 1 mg at 5 p.m. but the problem is that around 2 or 3 p.m i start feeling sick and runny nose again. Therefore i think im not properly stabilized at 2mg dosage. How can i re-stabilize myself?

  4. #4
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    Hey there. I just replied to your other thread. You should stick to this one since this is the Suboxone board.

    Kat
    Hi Kat,

    Can you PLEASE PLEASE help me get to a stable dose. I haven't taken any sub since 01/25 at 9 a.m. Can you please tell me exactly what to do. I just want to make sure i do this correctly. I forgot to tell you as well that on 01/25 I took 8 10/325 norcos and haven't had anything else in my system since then. so that would put my last dose of suboxone at about 40 hours and last norco use at about 28 hours. In your opinion what is my best option here.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-27-2015 at 02:01 AM.

  5. #5
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Hi Kat,

    Can you PLEASE PLEASE help me get to a stable dose. I haven't taken any sub since 01/25 at 9 a.m. Can you please tell me exactly what to do. I just want to make sure i do this correctly. I forgot to tell you as well that on 01/25 I took 8 10/325 norcos and haven't had anything else in my system since then. so that would put my last dose of suboxone at about 40 hours and last norco use at about 28 hours. In your opinion what is my best option here.
    I just woke up (trouble sleeping) so thought I'd come on here. Gotta get back to bed and will post more in the morning. Those norcos are probably out of your system, but just to be safe, wait until the morning to start Sub again. Generally we advise people to use the COWS sheet to re-induct after using regular opiates but you'll be waiting longer than usual since Sub has a long half-life. I went through a very similar re-induction myself.

    Follow Robert's induction plan starting tomorrow. Will be back...

    Kat

  6. #6
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Thanks again for responding so quick Kat

    I think my best option here is to start the induction process all over to get it correctly. my quesion is what if i dont reach the cows 26 score at all considering i was only taking 2mg of sub everyday. its been 40 hours since my last dose of sub and all i feel is minor craps in the stomach, defiantly yawning a lot and runny nose, and some anxiety and restlessness but from my calculations im only at about a 17 or 18 score.

    also would you suggest me start off with .5mg increments every 2 hours and build it up from there? How will i know when i am stable? Does being stable mean that after i take a .5mg and after 2 hours i feel fine then i am stabilized?

    Can you please give me a little background info on how you re-inducted yourself and the process you took. (did you wait for the score of 26? did you do .5mg increments or 1mg or 2mg? At what dosage were you finally stabilized?

    Again thank you sooo much for your input. I know you are probably sleeping right now and i myself am going to go to sleep but i hope to chat more with you tomorrow and get some more information before i start my induction.

    Just want to make sure i do this right the first and last time.

    Dion

  7. #7
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Thanks again for responding so quick Kat

    I think my best option here is to start the induction process all over to get it correctly. my quesion is what if i dont reach the cows 26 score at all considering i was only taking 2mg of sub everyday. its been 40 hours since my last dose of sub and all i feel is minor craps in the stomach, defiantly yawning a lot and runny nose, and some anxiety and restlessness but from my calculations im only at about a 17 or 18 score.

    also would you suggest me start off with .5mg increments every 2 hours and build it up from there? How will i know when i am stable? Does being stable mean that after i take a .5mg and after 2 hours i feel fine then i am stabilized?

    Can you please give me a little background info on how you re-inducted yourself and the process you took. (did you wait for the score of 26? did you do .5mg increments or 1mg or 2mg? At what dosage were you finally stabilized?

    Again thank you sooo much for your input. I know you are probably sleeping right now and i myself am going to go to sleep but i hope to chat more with you tomorrow and get some more information before i start my induction.

    Just want to make sure i do this right the first and last time.

    Dion
    You'll definitely reach a 26, but it'll take a while. 2mg Sub is still a pretty decent amount and yes, there will be WD. I didn't wait to reach a 26 because of that very reason. It probably would have taken 4 days or so and at that point the Norco is LONG gone. That decision wasn't just made by me, but with the help of trusted members when I first came here.

    It's totally up to you. Be back.
    Kat

  8. #8
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Dion,

    When I did my re-induction, I started with 1mg, but that's only because I'd been bouncing back and forth between Sub and mass amounts of Norco/Percs for years. I'd been through the drill many times and knew anything less than 1mg was gonna be a waste of time.

    But for you, since you haven't been doing that, please stick to Robert's induction protocol: start with .5mg. Wait an hour. Add .5mg or .25mg every 90 min until stable. Stable means having little to no WD symptoms.

    I gotta get to work. Don't worry; you'll be just fine. We're here for ya!!
    Kat
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  9. #9
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Dion - I'm another success story using the sub plan so many others have also used. Just no way to go wrong if you stick close to it! The hardest part is waiting in withdrawals to hit the 26 score that's really needed for a SAFE induction. Reason I say "safe" is because many get in a rush to induct, take the first dose of sub before it's time, then get to experience those PWD's that will bring you to your knee's.

    I learned that the HARD WAY when I myself got in a huge hurry when switching from methadone to subs. I took it too soon not using the Cows the first 2 times and went into PWD's twice! Talk about sucking, thought someone hit me with a sledge hammer then drove over me with a truck. It was beyond horrible. Using the Cows takes all the guesswork out of induction. It's just the best way to perform an induction safely.

    Follow the plan as Kat advises. It works so well. We're here to help you all the way.

    -Randy

  10. #10
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey Dion - I'm another success story using the sub plan so many others have also used. Just no way to go wrong if you stick close to it! The hardest part is waiting in withdrawals to hit the 26 score that's really needed for a SAFE induction. Reason I say "safe" is because many get in a rush to induct, take the first dose of sub before it's time, then get to experience those PWD's that will bring you to your knee's.

    I learned that the HARD WAY when I myself got in a huge hurry when switching from methadone to subs. I took it too soon not using the Cows the first 2 times and went into PWD's twice! Talk about sucking, thought someone hit me with a sledge hammer then drove over me with a truck. It was beyond horrible. Using the Cows takes all the guesswork out of induction. It's just the best way to perform an induction safely.

    Follow the plan as Kat advises. It works so well. We're here to help you all the way.

    -Randy
    Randy,

    The thing is, when a re-induction is done after a person has already been on Sub, it's a bit different. It would take quite a long time to get to a 26 after being on Sub and it's unnecessary to wait that long. I was advised to re-induct at about a score of 18/19 by Alex and Rose. They knew the Norco was long gone after 2 days and very little chance (if any) of PWD.

    Just wanted to explain.
    Kat
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  11. #11
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    Randy,

    The thing is, when a re-induction is done after a person has already been on Sub, it's a bit different. It would take quite a long time to get to a 26 after being on Sub and it's unnecessary to wait that long. I was advised to re-induct at about a score of 18/19 by Alex and Rose. They knew the Norco was long gone after 2 days and very little chance (if any) of PWD.

    Just wanted to explain.
    Kat

    Hey Kat - I understand completely, but I agree and also disagree to a certain degree. Lol. Let me explain my thinking and hope it makes sense.

    I agree in most cases such as your own it's ok to go ahead and induct once you KNOW any previous opiate is well out of your system, or if someone with the experience that both Alex and Rose has suggests it's ok to do so. But SOME people just don't know when that may be. Not saying you or Dion don't, but speaking of someone else in the same situation such as a personal friend of mine.

    She was on a small dose of sub and stopped taking it only to go back to her former drug of choice, Fentanyl. She took the fentanyl for 2 days then wanted to reinduct back to subs. She waited for 24 hours which she THOUGHT was plenty of time for the fentanyl to be out of her system and went straight into PWD's. Had she waited longer, and/or used the cows getting to the 26 score it would have avoided that huge problem.

    Yes it could have taken a while to get to a 26 score as it did when I switched from methadone waiting nearly 90 hours. But safe rather than sorry was my goal at that time. Lol.

    I realize theres exceptions to everything, but for those reading along and not knowing all the circumstances is mainly the reason for my post. You knew you were probably ok to reinduct, and I would now if I were in that situation, but not everyone would be so lucky is my reasoning. My thinking anyway, and I do agree in your case it was perfectly fine!

    -Randy

  12. #12
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey Kat - I understand completely, but I agree and also disagree to a certain degree. Lol. Let me explain my thinking and hope it makes sense.

    I agree in most cases such as your own it's ok to go ahead and induct once you KNOW any previous opiate is well out of your system, or if someone with the experience that both Alex and Rose has suggests it's ok to do so. But SOME people just don't know when that may be. Not saying you or Dion don't, but speaking of someone else in the same situation such as a personal friend of mine.

    She was on a small dose of sub and stopped taking it only to go back to her former drug of choice, Fentanyl. She took the fentanyl for 2 days then wanted to reinduct back to subs. She waited for 24 hours which she THOUGHT was plenty of time for the fentanyl to be out of her system and went straight into PWD's. Had she waited longer, and/or used the cows getting to the 26 score it would have avoided that huge problem.

    Yes it could have taken a while to get to a 26 score as it did when I switched from methadone waiting nearly 90 hours. But safe rather than sorry was my goal at that time. Lol.

    I realize theres exceptions to everything, but for those reading along and not knowing all the circumstances is mainly the reason for my post. You knew you were probably ok to reinduct, and I would now if I were in that situation, but not everyone would be so lucky is my reasoning. My thinking anyway, and I do agree in your case it was perfectly fine!

    -Randy
    Maybe I missed something. I thought Dion only took 8 or 10 Norcos. Where did she mention the Fentanyl?

    Kat

  13. #13
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Randy,

    EDIT TO ABOVE:

    My bad. I didn't realize you were talking about a friend of yours, lol.

    Kat

  14. #14
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Ok guys so after barley getting any sleep last night im going on 50+ hours of last suboxone use and im still only at about a 20 on the COWS sheet. Im going to go ahead and start with an induction of .5mg and wait 2 hours and see if that helps. then from there continue to increase until i feel no more WD. I will post back and update.

  15. #15
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Ok guys so after barley getting any sleep last night im going on 50+ hours of last suboxone use and im still only at about a 20 on the COWS sheet. Im going to go ahead and start with an induction of .5mg and wait 2 hours and see if that helps. then from there continue to increase until i feel no more WD. I will post back and update.
    I'll be pretty shocked if starting Sub now causes PWD. Go slow and follow the induction protocol. You'll do fine.

    I absolutely respect what Randy says, but we're not always 100% in agreement, lol.

    Please post often.
    Kat

  16. #16
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Thank you for all your help guys. Specially you Kat

    I just had one thing to clear up. As i mentioned in my original post i was already taking 2mg a day dose. I would take 1 mg at about 9 a.m and another at about 5 p.m. however between 3 and 5 pm i would start to feel sweats coming on. Now my question is what if i stabilize at 2mg again today and same thing starts to happen when i start to split my doses.

    As of right now i took my first .5mg dose about an hour and a half ago and it helped a bit but i still feel the sweats and shivers on my body so im going to continue taking the dosage up until i stabilize. But what if i stabilize at 2mg again and then next 2-4 days the scenario that I mentioned starts to happen again?

  17. #17
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Thank you for all your help guys. Specially you Kat

    I just had one thing to clear up. As i mentioned in my original post i was already taking 2mg a day dose. I would take 1 mg at about 9 a.m and another at about 5 p.m. however between 3 and 5 pm i would start to feel sweats coming on. Now my question is what if i stabilize at 2mg again today and same thing starts to happen when i start to split my doses.

    As of right now i took my first .5mg dose about an hour and a half ago and it helped a bit but i still feel the sweats and shivers on my body so im going to continue taking the dosage up until i stabilize. But what if i stabilize at 2mg again and then next 2-4 days the scenario that I mentioned starts to happen again?
    Unfortunately, Sub can actually cause sweating, even when you're stable. I was always sweaty on Sub. Yuck! If that's your only symptom, you'll have to find a way to deal with it. Did the sweats happen when you first started at 2mg? If so, then it's probably here to stay until you're off of it completely.

    Remember, add .25mg or .5mg every 90 min until stable.

    Check back soon...
    Kat

  18. #18
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Yes kat i have added another .5mg 2 hours after my first dose and now its been almost 4 hours since my first dose. I am up to 1mg right now. I feel fine other then a chill running through my body here and there and i feel hot and cold. I suspect im not going to stabilize until about 2 or 3 mg in. One other question i had is sometimes when I take my suboxone dose in the morning and it gets near the second dose in the afternoon i start getting back pains. Is that normal as well?

  19. #19
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Yes kat i have added another .5mg 2 hours after my first dose and now its been almost 4 hours since my first dose. I am up to 1mg right now. I feel fine other then a chill running through my body here and there and i feel hot and cold. I suspect im not going to stabilize until about 2 or 3 mg in. One other question i had is sometimes when I take my suboxone dose in the morning and it gets near the second dose in the afternoon i start getting back pains. Is that normal as well?

    Back pain isn't a common side effect of Sub. There may be another issue there. How long have you had back pain? Is it only on Sub?

    You're doing great with your induction! Yes, it's likely it will take 2-3mg to get stable.

    Kat

  20. #20
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your support kat


    The back pain i get usually comes around 2-3 hours before my second dose is due in the afternoon. Its mainly around my lower back. It starts simultaneously with the other symptoms i described to you earlier (hot, sweats). However as soon as i take my second dose the back pain and all other symptoms usually goes away pretty quickly.

  21. #21
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Thanks for your support kat


    The back pain i get usually comes around 2-3 hours before my second dose is due in the afternoon. Its mainly around my lower back. It starts simultaneously with the other symptoms i described to you earlier (hot, sweats). However as soon as i take my second dose the back pain and all other symptoms usually goes away pretty quickly.
    Hmm, that's weird. If I were you, I'd treat it with an OTC med like Ibuprofen or Aleve. It's better than raising your dose just to try to get rid of it.

    How are you doing this morning? Feeling ok? What dose did you end up going to? Feeling stable?

    Kat

  22. #22
    xparabparskhye1x is offline New Member
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    Thank you for the suggestion Kat I will try Advil to see if it helps.

    Sorry I couldn't post earlier I had to run some errands and get more suboxone form the doctor. I ended up stabilizing at 3mg. Today i split that dose and took 1.5mg in the morning at 9 a.m. and another 1.5 mg at 5 p.m. I feel normal and all of the withdrawal symptoms are gone including the sweating and back pain. I will continue on this dosage for about a week and then cut down by 25% from there and see if its still an effective dose. I don't see why it shouldn't work. Im very grateful for all your help and thank you for being there for me during this hard time. I will continue to post back as i go through the tapering process with any other questions that i may have. god bless you!

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xparabparskhye1x View Post
    Thank you for the suggestion Kat I will try Advil to see if it helps.

    Sorry I couldn't post earlier I had to run some errands and get more suboxone form the doctor. I ended up stabilizing at 3mg. Today i split that dose and took 1.5mg in the morning at 9 a.m. and another 1.5 mg at 5 p.m. I feel normal and all of the withdrawal symptoms are gone including the sweating and back pain. I will continue on this dosage for about a week and then cut down by 25% from there and see if its still an effective dose. I don't see why it shouldn't work. Im very grateful for all your help and thank you for being there for me during this hard time. I will continue to post back as i go through the tapering process with any other questions that i may have. god bless you!
    So glad you were able to stabilize at 3mg. That's great. Yes, the taper plan will definitely work for you! It's tried and true for years now. Don't get in a rush; only reduce when you're stable.

    Hope to hear from you soon.
    Kat
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    findingmeagain is offline Junior Member
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    Hello there, I just stumbled upon your thread and as I read through it I found so many similarities with your story and my own. I'm happy that you were able to stabilize at 3 mg and I wish u well as u continue your journey. I was on a much higher dose and had tried to taper before and quit cold turkey, both without success. I am relatively new to Roberts taper plan and have been using it now for a little over 2 weeks. I've made it down from 8 to 3.75mg and I'm trying to get stable there before going to 3.50 which was suggested to me by someone on here that has been down this road. He made me realize that I was going down too quickly and after 2 days at 3.75 from 5 I was not doing well. I'm struggling with how to know when I'm truly stable on a dose like you were. I want to do this the right way as comfortably as possible. If you want, you can check out my thread. I wish you all the best and will check back in soon. We can do this!

    Mary

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