Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By Randy35
  • 2 Post By Randy35
  • 2 Post By Randy35
Sporadic Methadone Dosing to Suboxone Induction question
  1. #1
    Kinophile is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default Sporadic Methadone Dosing to Suboxone Induction question

    Hi,

    So, I've been on methadone for a number of years now and my habit almost most of the time is to be on a "regular dosage" of around 10 - 20mg each day while every 5 to 6 days using 100 - 150mg to for one day of "relaxing". I'm desperate to get out of this cycle and would very much like to make the switch to suboxone. It's been approx. 110 hours (~4 1/2 days) since my last large dose and approx. 48 hours since any dose (just 5mg). I've yet to go into any real strong withdrawals, so I haven't dared to start.

    My question is: even if I have go by the COWS induction sheet, will I still be in trouble considering the high dosages I would take about once a week? I'm also in a bit of trouble as I don't have the methadone to really stabilize at 10 - 20mg a day (although this has never been a problem before; I've been able to not take a large dosage for two weeks and have always been fine at the lower dosages).

    I've read that you have to be at 30mg to start, so I'm just not sure where I land and am super scared to start induction not knowing how my brain/body will react. Anyone else here had a similar experience? Thank you in advance for any advice you can give me.

  2. #2
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Welcome!

    You have every right to be scared of taking the sub too soon. Precipitated withdrawals ar no joke. You want to avoid them at all costs by waiting until you're at a score of 26 or higher on the Cows, no matter how long it takes. I went into PW's twice because I tried to rush the induction. Ended up in the ER. Sad thing is theres nothing that will help, only letting them pass which can take a couple hours up to a day or longer. Never been so sick in my life.

    You don't have to be down to 30mgs of methadone to make the switch, it's just the recommended dose. One member here made the switch from 150mgs of methadone. I was on doses over 200mgs of methadone for many years and was able to get my dose down to 10mgs before making the switch. The key is the Cows and waiting until you score an honest 26.

    Took me about 90 hours in wd's after I completely stopped taking the methadone. It has a real long half life so it remains in your system quite a long time. Taking that 5mg dose around 48 hours ago is most likely the reason your Cows score in not improving. Don't take more methadone, and don't take ANYTHING that would make you feel better. Taking tylenol, motrin, a benzo, imodium, or anything that would treat the symptoms will absolutely delay the Cows score. The entire point is to be sick enough to take the subs. So take nothing else and go into severe wd's.

    Here's the link to our sub plan below….

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    It's a great plan if you stick to it closely. After my third attempt at inducting (because I did it wrong twice) I spent about 9 months on the sub by choice. Needed to get my addictive thoughts and behaviors under control. Finally had a very successful taper from the subs and now have over 1.7 years completely clean.

    Another thing to consider….have you given any thought to doing this without the subs? You'll have around 120 hours or more off everything so why not give this a try without getting on the subs. Just asking. I tried every other method first before i went with Suboxone. I couldn't taper ot go CT after numerous attempts. Subs was what worked for me and I'm very happy I went that route.

    Hope this info is helpful. I wish you the best. I'll check back later at some point to see how you're doing.

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-11-2016 at 08:06 AM.
    UncleLeo likes this.

  3. #3
    Kinophile is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Hi Randy,

    Thank you so much for the quick reply. And yep, i'm totally guilty of using imodium, clonidine, and gabapentin for treating symptoms. The worst is probably not using the imodium as I dehydrate very easily from diarrhea. It's been a strange experience so far. I've had 3 - 4 bouts of one withdrawal symptom or another over the past 24 hours, but usually just one at a time. It's as if one symptom drops by for a visit, stays for a chat, and then leaves again, only to have another symptom drop by an hour or two later. About 30 minutes ago, in fact, the rapid-fire yawning just came for its first visit.

    I suppose what I'm really waiting for is the full-body restlessness (this was the reason I got on methadone in the first place; i was having chronic, debilitating restlessness all the time). When that comes around, I can be pretty sure I'm in withdrawal. I'll stop taking the other meds for now and see if I can encourage a group visit from all my symptoms (as punishing as that sounds).

    I'm curious: do you know how long the person who switched from 150mg of Methadone waited until they inducted? Because they were at that dose, was the wait til induction 5, 6, or even 7 days because the Methadone had so permanently ingrained itself? I suppose this is my main worry even though I only took does that high about once ever 5 to 6 days, the rest of the days being around 10 - 20mg.

    Thanks again.

  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinophile View Post
    Hi Randy,

    Thank you so much for the quick reply. And yep, i'm totally guilty of using imodium, clonidine, and gabapentin for treating symptoms. The worst is probably not using the imodium as I dehydrate very easily from diarrhea. It's been a strange experience so far. I've had 3 - 4 bouts of one withdrawal symptom or another over the past 24 hours, but usually just one at a time. It's as if one symptom drops by for a visit, stays for a chat, and then leaves again, only to have another symptom drop by an hour or two later. About 30 minutes ago, in fact, the rapid-fire yawning just came for its first visit.

    I suppose what I'm really waiting for is the full-body restlessness (this was the reason I got on methadone in the first place; i was having chronic, debilitating restlessness all the time). When that comes around, I can be pretty sure I'm in withdrawal. I'll stop taking the other meds for now and see if I can encourage a group visit from all my symptoms (as punishing as that sounds).

    I'm curious: do you know how long the person who switched from 150mg of Methadone waited until they inducted? Because they were at that dose, was the wait til induction 5, 6, or even 7 days because the Methadone had so permanently ingrained itself? I suppose this is my main worry even though I only took does that high about once ever 5 to 6 days, the rest of the days being around 10 - 20mg.

    Thanks again.


    Her name is Bette and her user name here is Iluv2smile. She has several threads, but here's the link to one of them….

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/prescrip...ddy-66473.html

    I want to say that Bette waited around 4-5 days after stopping the methadone to take the subs, but not 100% certain of that. Read through this thread of hers and I'm sure the answer is in there somewhere. You can click on her user name to find other threads of hers too.

    I think once you stop taking those comfort meds your Cows score will begin to increase rapidly. Hope so anyway. I'm sure those symptoms will pay you at visit real soon!

    Randy
    UncleLeo and Kinophile like this.

  5. #5
    Kinophile is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Ok, so I just started induction. I cut the film into approx. 2mg strips, then cut a 2mg strip in half. It didn't cut quite evenly so I took the smaller of the two pieces so a little less than 1mg altogether. I never swallowed the saliva during the first 20 minutes. It's been about 30 minutes now, and I'm trying to figure out if anything has actually started to happen.

    Withdrawals haven't gotten worse, that's for sure. I waited until I was over 20 on COWS (I kept moving in between 21 and 25 depending on 15 minute intervals). The withdrawals may even be slightly less now, 30 minutes after taking the film, but that might be placebo. Is this too early to feel anything either way?

    So, now I'll wait the 90 minutes and see what really happens. If all is the same, I'll take the other part of the 2mg strip.

  6. #6
    Kinophile is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default

    So I took 2mg and nothing seemed to get better or worse. Then I took a 3rd 1mg dose. About 20 minutes after that I had diarhhea hit. I immediately got scared that I had thrown myself into precipitated withdrawals. I did something stupid and took some short acting opiates I had, but they seem to be doing nothing. Now I'm sweating and restless. It doesn't feel like the deathly precipitated withdrawals i've heard about, so now I'm at a complete loss.

    Am I in "mild" precipitated withdrawals? Should I take more suboxone or would that be a terrible error? I'm so confused.

  7. #7
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinophile View Post
    So I took 2mg and nothing seemed to get better or worse. Then I took a 3rd 1mg dose. About 20 minutes after that I had diarhhea hit. I immediately got scared that I had thrown myself into precipitated withdrawals. I did something stupid and took some short acting opiates I had, but they seem to be doing nothing. Now I'm sweating and restless. It doesn't feel like the deathly precipitated withdrawals i've heard about, so now I'm at a complete loss.

    Am I in "mild" precipitated withdrawals? Should I take more suboxone or would that be a terrible error? I'm so confused.


    If you were in PW's you would know it. You'll be violently ill with a variety of extremely harsh symptoms. I think you need to slow down and basically re-do the induction. You don't need to go into full wd's again, but try not to take any sub until later this evening. You'll probably feel rough, but we need to do this right so you only have to do it once.

    If you have gone into PW's there's nothing you can do except wait until it passes. The time varies in each of us. Taking more sub when you're in PW's will not do a thing to help.

    I hope and pray you haven't experienced PW's. So do your very best to not take any sub until the evening hours. Then take a 1mg dose and wait an hour. If you feel you need more then begin taking .5mg doses until stable. Post often letting us know how you're feeling. Hopefully we can get you on track to feeling better.

    And please get rid of those opiates. Sub is a tool that's intended to be used when someone wants to be clean of all addictive substances. Taking the short acting opiates is not advised. I know why you took them, but you had sub in your system so your receptors were already blocked and the opiates couldn't be felt. I urge you to get rid of them.

    Let me know how you're feeling this morning. Hope you were able to get some sleep.

    Randy
    Ming23 and Kinophile like this.

  8. #8
    Kinophile is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Hey Randy and Everyone Else,

    I'm happy to report that I successfully inducted today at 4mg. I'm free and clean of Methadone and my withdrawals. While my body is still a bit weak (eating only a few hundred calories a day for 4 days is rough), mentally I'm very happy and excited.

    Last night about 2 - 3 hours after my last dose, stopping at 3mg, I was finally relieved of a number of withdrawal symptoms. At first I wondered if the short-acting opiates were actually the cause, but as cessation of symptoms continued throughout the night and day, I realized it was the Suboxone. I also realized 3mg was not enough, which probably played a part in last nights mishap. So, I'll just chalk that first try up to a learning experience and move forward positively.

    Thanks again for your support and responses Randy. While it was only over the course of a couple of days, it really did help me very much and kept me reminded that I just needed to be a bit more patient and see it out. I'll also try to post here over the next few days as I stablize and report my experiences. The only possible side-effect I feel is a headache that I took some advil for, but that's it, and it may be due to potential dehydration or something else. Either way, it's not that bad and a billion times better than how I was feeling. Anyways, I'm gonna go lie down and relax for a bit and then try to get a long >7 hour sleep.

  9. #9
    Kinophile is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    6

    Default

    An update:

    I'm on day 3 now and feel wonderful. Withdrawal symptoms mostly gone (though anytime I even begin to sweat just normally my addict brain jumps right back to thinking somethings wrong) and feeling like a normal person. I'm still feeling some weird stuff going on with my brain but I imagine that's the Methadone finally leaving and the Suboxone asserting itself. I'm ready to begin the trip to complete opiate freedom now. I'm going to stabilize at 4mg for 7 - 10 days, then start the Robert taper plan.

    I was on Methadone in the first place because of a condition I'm not even sure there's a name for yet. I basically have the symptoms of RLS but all over my body, especially in my arms and back. My shoulder blades would feel like they were trying to press their way out of my skin at times. It would burn greatly.

    However, I haven't seen how my body is doing without an opiate influence in about 8 - 9 years, so I'm ready to get off them, and if the condition is still there, try every other possible remedy. If I still can find no comfort, I suppose I'll have to make the choice to either live with it or get on suboxone again. I'm never going to put my on Methadone or another full agonist opiate treatment again. I just can't do it; there's just too much temptation and my flesh is weak (figuratively speaking).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Kinophile - so glad you are feeling better. Suboxone can be a life saver. Just a bit of my experience with Suboxone. I have a weak addicts mind as well. I was 7 years on street opiates after originally being over prescribed for about a year then. It off. I went to Suboxone to avoid jail from getting illegally or loosing my house paying for them. I was on for 9 years. I have to say went on sub to avoid being sick. It was a miracle at the time. Please be careful with Suboxone it's a double edge of sword my dr has told me I would need to be on it forever. This is not correct - you should never be on them for long term. I thought I was taking them to be "normal". After 9 years I was somewhat.for ex into going cold turkey because I took a little extra here or there. I'm --9 days in and still probably only 50% back to normal. Suboxone left me in emotionally numb state of just getting thru the day. It is so much worse than the withdrawals from hydros/Oxy. I know it's really hard to take of from life to detox for two weeks. It's no fun and you have to be ready and prepared for the chaos. It has been hardest thing ever but just don't let them tell you HAVE to be on them forever if you don't try. I know you are just happy this went good and I have never done methadone so I know you were in tough spot. Just please becafeful and do what is best for you - only you know what that is. I'm glad you are doing better - Kim

Similar Threads

  1. suboxone Induction question
    By Da2011 in forum Need to Talk?
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 09-15-2016, 09:33 PM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-29-2015, 04:48 PM
  3. Question about dosing with small suboxone pieces
    By Benjamin1987 in forum Need to Talk?
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-09-2014, 12:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22