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Started Suboxone Today
  1. #1
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Default Started Suboxone Today

    Well after a year of debate I finally started Suboxone today. Not going to lie, if I didn't run out of pills I may not have started subs today. A little back story.
    Had surgery 2 years ago and realized while on pain medication that life was much easier. The euphoria was amazing and I was always happy and full of energy. Once my 10 day supply was gone I was at the doctors, complaining of different ailments in hopes of getting more meds. It always worked. Fast forward to recently. I was enrolled in pain management and going monthly. I was prescribed OxyContin 20mg twice a day and 6 Percocet 10/325 a day for breakthrough. Most of the time took as prescribed as this was enough to keep my sailing. Yesterday I took my last oc20 at 6am, 2 MS Contin 30 at 7pm and 11 Percocet 10/325 throughout the day, the last being at 9pm. Woke up this morning feeling dead like every morning. Had no pills so I carried out my usual routine. Coffee. Shower, and went to work at 8am. Being Sunday I only work for a couple hours. I was feeling like >>>>. Rapid heart rate, anxiety through the roof. Shakes. Cold sweats. But still was only scoring between 6-8 and the COWS worksheet. Anywho, I went home at 11am and tried to nap. Unsuccessfully. I was well aware of precipitated withdrawal and reads not nervous horror stories but didn't care. I opened an 8mg Suboxone sublingual strip and cut it into 8 pieces. I took the first piece at 1230, about 15.5 hours after my first pull 1mg didn't do anything but I wanted to start low in case I did go into precipitated withdrawal. Half hour took another 1mg piece and continued that routine until I had taken 6mg total, 1 mg every half hour. After 4 mg I was feeling a little better but not super great. Still withdrawal symptoms. 6mg appeared to be the amount needed for me to stabilize. Tomorrow I will start the day with 6mg or I may take 3mg twice a day. I read cutting it in half and taking twice a day makes weening off easier in the future. Just thought I'd share my experience. I feel pretty good right now. Not 100% but better than I did this morning. Main complaint is a dull lingering headache.
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  2. #2
    Hamscraps is offline Member
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    Glad you started a thread. It can sometimes be a bit slow on weekends but someone will come around eventually. There are some knowledgeable members here that can help you figure out where you need to be in terms of being stable and weaning down. They'll be along shortly I'm sure.

    I'm on Day 3 of oxycodone withdrawal cold turkey......again. I didn't go the sub route but I'm here to support you, listen and be here for you.
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  3. #3
    Alex13 is offline Junior Member
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    Take it for a few days and get off ASAP! Long term use or even for a few weeks can lead to brutal withdraws that last months, opiate withdraws suck but end relatively quickly but Suboxone withdraws are a marathon of unpleasantness. I choose the same route as you did and have grown to regret the decision. Suboxone is poison, it will change your life in horrible ways. I'm not saying it doesn't have it uses but it's certainly not for light opiate users looking to ease withdraw symptoms.
    This is by no means a professional opinion, this is only a true representation of my experiences with Suboxone.
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  4. #4
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Ham thanks for the encouragement and good luck. Alex thanks for the advice. I have a good plan in place that I got from robert_325. Rapid taper. I'll do 6mg a day for 3 days, long enormous go to be through the worst of the oxy withdrawal and than I'll rapid detox off. Meaning drop 1mg a day than done. I agree with you, I don't want it in my body for very long. Funny thing is doc rxd me 3 x 8mg a day. That's like trying to kill a mosquito with a shotgun. Way too much.
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  5. #5
    Alex13 is offline Junior Member
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    Doctors like yours should lose their licenses, 24 MG's a day is enough for a horse. Same dose I was on, after a year I was a walking zombie. My mouth tasted like metal, my emotions were gone, I was sexual dead and was very unhappy. 25 days later all those things are starting to pour back in and I now realize the trap I was sucked into. My Doctor got rich and I got addicted, just how he liked it.
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  6. #6
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex13 View Post
    Take it for a few days and get off ASAP! Long term use or even for a few weeks can lead to brutal withdraws that last months, opiate withdraws suck but end relatively quickly but Suboxone withdraws are a marathon of unpleasantness. I choose the same route as you did and have grown to regret the decision. Suboxone is poison, it will change your life in horrible ways. I'm not saying it doesn't have it uses but it's certainly not for light opiate users looking to ease withdraw symptoms.
    This is by no means a professional opinion, this is only a true representation of my experiences with Suboxone.

    I'm sorry, but the above highlighted quote simply isn't true for the ones that use Suboxone correctly. As with anything else there may be a few that suffer for whatever reason, but those that stick close to Robert's plan have much success.

    I've said this so many times here I can't remember, but all of the horror stories where subs are concerned are always for the same reasons -

    On sub way too long.
    On doses that are way too high.
    Having an unknowledgeable sub doctor.
    Performing an improper induction.
    Using a "quick detox" to get off.
    Taking sub on an "as needed" basis.
    Reducing much too fast.
    Reducing by too many mgs.
    Jumping from much too high of a dose.

    Those are the main reasons. Robert's sub plan does not include a rapid taper. His sub plan takes around 6-8 weeks if used properly, give or take a couple weeks. If you induct the right way, get yourself stable on the lowest possible dose, spend about a week or so on that dose then taper off using the 25%, 4 or so day reduction protocol, and reduce your dose down to around .25mg, you'll have the easiest possible time with your sub experience. You definitely don't have to suffer for months.

    If you buck the system and try to do it "your way" you're just asking for problems to occur, thus another horror story.

    Randy

  7. #7
    Alex13 is offline Junior Member
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    We'll just have to agree to disagree Randy. The horror stories in my opinion outnumber the positive experiences, not everyone has the ability to follow such long term tapering plans. Per the post, the doctor prescribed 24 mg a day. That's far from a careful approach.

  8. #8
    Thisweekforsure is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex13 View Post
    Take it for a few days and get off ASAP! Long term use or even for a few weeks can lead to brutal withdraws that last months, opiate withdraws suck but end relatively quickly but Suboxone withdraws are a marathon of unpleasantness. I choose the same route as you did and have grown to regret the decision. Suboxone is poison, it will change your life in horrible ways. I'm not saying it doesn't have it uses but it's certainly not for light opiate users looking to ease withdraw symptoms.
    This is by no means a professional opinion, this is only a true representation of my experiences with Suboxone.
    OP is not a "light" user. Day before induction he took 20mg OxyContin, 60 morphine, and a total of 110 oxycodone. That's a total of 130 oxycodone plus 60 morphine which is equivalent to 40 oxy, for a grand total of 170 oxycodone equivalency. That's a pretty solid habit, not at all light, and certainly can involve enough psychological addiction factors that an extended suboxone course may be beneficial.

    But you are correct in the idea that one should not use suboxone to "ease" withdrawal symptoms. That's not at all what it does. It doesn't ease an ongoing withdrawal process, it transfers the addiction to sub. The purpose of doing this is because the sub does not give the same euphoria, the sub is administered under the legal care of a doctor, and the sub stabilizes you and gives you time to psychologically address the addictive behaviors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inkdbakr View Post
    Ham thanks for the encouragement and good luck. Alex thanks for the advice. I have a good plan in place that I got from robert_325. Rapid taper. I'll do 6mg a day for 3 days, long enormous go to be through the worst of the oxy withdrawal and than I'll rapid detox off. Meaning drop 1mg a day than done. I agree with you, I don't want it in my body for very long. Funny thing is doc rxd me 3 x 8mg a day. That's like trying to kill a mosquito with a shotgun. Way too much.
    This is a misconception (the bold part). The sub does not ease symptoms while you "get through" withdrawal. The sub halts withdrawal. It puts it off for later. Alex has a point, when on sub, you still must face withdrawal one way or the other, because your brain still needs to heal its neurotransmitters. The point of sub isn't to get out of going through withdrawal. The point of sub is to give yourself time to wrap your mind around not taking a pill a dozen times a day, to go to meetings to address the psychological pain behind your addiction, and to give you an opportunity to taper very slowly so you don't have to go through cold turkey.

    Randy is correct. The horrors of sub are associated with the incorrect use of it. Unfortunately a lot (maybe even most?) doctors are prescribing way too high doses, and don't understand induction or the taper off process. Used correctly, sub is a way out of addiction for a lot of people. Used incorrectly, it can be a horrible experience.

    Inkdbakr, good for you for researching the right way to induct! You lucked out though with not being high enough on COWS but I think you might have just scored yourself too conservatively because obviously you were ready to induct when you did. If you likewise follow Robert's plan and taper properly, you should have no problems. You might want to read Randy35's thread (No trouble tapering, just can't make the jump!) for an example of someone who's life may well have been saved by sub.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-12-2016 at 09:39 AM.
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  9. #9
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex13 View Post
    We'll just have to agree to disagree Randy. The horror stories in my opinion outnumber the positive experiences, not everyone has the ability to follow such long term tapering plans. Per the post, the doctor prescribed 24 mg a day. That's far from a careful approach.

    Alex,

    The horror stories you read outnumber the positive ones simply because most that have gotten on and off the sub don't stick around any longer. They're out enjoying their new found freedom. If you went back and began reading some of Robert 325's posts where he helped induct and taper off many addicts you would see that there have literally been thousands of positive stories.

    You may disagree if you want, but I know I'm right. If I'm not mistaken you jumped from 4mg of sub. That's never recommended and can cause all kinds of problems. Tapering lower definitely eases those symptoms.

    If your sub doctor prescribed you 24mgs per day that's certainly not your fault. It's reason #3 in my list - an unknowledgeable sub doctor.

    And jumping from 4mg is reason #9 - Jumping from much too high of a dose.

    I guarantee if you would have be inducted on the lowest possible dose that got you stable, remained there around a week or so, then began the taper process of slow and steady reducing the dose by 25% every 4 or so days, you would have been reporting a much different outcome - a positive story.

    Randy
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  10. #10
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    As Thisweekforsure stated, the sub without a doubt saved my life. And I'm quite passionate about it. I would have been dead if not for Suboxone and that's a fact. I also did plenty of research before I considered taking it too. I know what worked and what most likely wouldn't.

    Randy
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  11. #11
    Alex13 is offline Junior Member
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    Randy, your beating a dead horse. You may think your right but so do I, so let's agree to disagree. I have no doubt that me jumping from 4 mg was a strong personal choice, one I'm happy with. My disagreement with you is that you said by tapering that you wouldn't face extended withdraw, that's just not true. I've read multiple diaries that stated they jumped at .01 mg after extended tapers and still had 15-20 day withdraw periods, so what I'm saying is you can't state facts off personal opinion.

    I hear you that you think Suboxone saved your life, I personally feel it ruined mine. Who's right? Neither one of us, the pharmaceutical company wins in both instances.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-12-2016 at 10:24 AM.

  12. #12
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex13 View Post
    Randy, your beating a dead horse. You may think your right but so do I, so let's agree to disagree. I have no doubt that me jumping from 4 mg was a strong personal choice, one I'm happy with. My disagreement with you is that you said by tapering that you wouldn't face extended withdraw, that's just not true. I've read multiple diaries that stated they jumped at .01 mg after extended tapers and still had 15-20 day withdraw periods, so what I'm saying is you can't base your facts off personal opinion.

    I hear you that you think Suboxone saved your life, I personally feel it ruined mine. Who's right? Neither one of us, the pharmaceutical company wins in both instances.

    I speak from personal EXPERIENCE, not opinion. You wouldn't believe how many I've helped on and off sub. Those that use it correctly do not have long, drawn out wd's.

    All I'm saying.

    Randy
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  13. #13
    Alex13 is offline Junior Member
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    As I've already said, I appricate your opinion.
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  14. #14
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    The sub without a doubt saved my life too..
    I could not get off methadone until I successfully
    Induced onto to sub..
    Stayed on sub 9 months by choice..
    Tapered using Roberts taper..
    Worked through the whole taper..
    Now
    28 months off methadone
    And
    19 months off sub..

    I took my time not because I couldn't get off it faster..
    I wanted to make some major changes in my life..
    I stayed on some does 6-7 days ..

    It was not a race..
    I did not get addicted overnight!
    Plus I knew
    I never had to go through it again..
    If you really wNt to use the taper we can support you ..
    It gave me hope knowing many many people had done that
    Successfully!

    All I had to do was take some suggestions!
    It worked!
    Congratulations on making through the induction!
    That is progress!
    For sure..

    Bette
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  15. #15
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Thanks Bette. I appreciate the words of encouragement and the you sharing your experience. Today was day 2. Yesterday I stabilized at 6mg so my plan today was to take 4mg when I woke up and 4mg after work. That didn't happen. I took 4mg at 5am and by 1pm I took another 2 as I was experiencing what appeared to be withdrawal symptoms. I took another 2mg at 6pm and that stabilized me. I remember reading that you may have to go up or down from your day 1 dose. I will stay at 8mg for a week and drop to 6mg and stay at that level until I'm comfortable for the next drop down. It's not a race as you said and I have plenty of subs to last me. 180 of the 8mg to be exact. Well 178.5 left
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  16. #16
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    I know it is hard to believe
    But
    With sub less is more..

    99% of us feel much better on a smaller dose..

    But it usually takes getting to 2 mg to say
    Wow this is strange but less is more..

    So you sound like you have a plan .
    That is what it takes..

    It can be done!
    That is the good news..

    As long as it works!
    Right?

    Bette

  17. #17
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv2smile View Post
    I know it is hard to believe
    But
    With sub less is more..

    99% of us feel much better on a smaller dose..

    But it usually takes getting to 2 mg to say
    Wow this is strange but less is more..

    So you sound like you have a plan .
    That is what it takes..

    It can be done!
    That is the good news..

    As long as it works!
    Right?

    Bette
    Absolutely

  18. #18
    Fish guide is offline Junior Member
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    Trust what Randy says is true.When I decided I had enough with my addiction to painkillers that my doctor handed to me and said taper yourself off.I went to a doctor that took the 8 HR course online to get certified well he doesn't know s--t.There was never a plan for me to get off Suboxone because it's money for them. So I had enough and started my taper very close to Roberts plan and 6 weeks later I'm almost 2 days clean and not feeling bad at all. Just go slow and when you cut down make sure yo do it in small increments your body will get accustomed to the lesser dose easier and once you feel halfway decent drop by a little again. I dropped down to 1/8 mg and skipped a day and felt fine then I skipped the next day and still feel ok. Stay strong you can do it. Fish
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-13-2016 at 02:32 PM.
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  19. #19
    Fish guide is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex13 View Post
    Doctors like yours should lose their licenses, 24 MG's a day is enough for a horse. Same dose I was on, after a year I was a walking zombie. My mouth tasted like metal, my emotions were gone, I was sexual dead and was very unhappy. 25 days later all those things are starting to pour back in and I now realize the trap I was sucked into. My Doctor got rich and I got addicted, just how he liked it.
    So true I had the same experience

  20. #20
    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    Looks like I missed an exciting weekend around here...this has turned in to quite the thread Lots of judgments around the Board lately...ahhh to be young and wise again. Those were the days.

    Hang in there buddy. Try to stabilize as low as you can. Pays off in the long run. And whatever Randy tells you, just do it. You can thank him later. His head is clear. When we're on sub et al. we're compromised.
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  21. #21
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Today I took my 4mg upon waking up and 9 hours later I took my other half. This time it put me on the moon. Euphoric feeling. Dizzy. Almost like an intense oxy buzz. Any reason why? I took the exact same amount as yesterday. Should I cut down to 6mg tomorrow? 3mg at wake up and 3mg 8-10 hours later? Again, I'm dosing twice a day per Robert_325 advise. Thanks.

  22. #22
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleLeo View Post
    Looks like I missed an exciting weekend around here...this has turned in to quite the thread Lots of judgments around the Board lately...ahhh to be young and wise again. Those were the days.

    Hang in there buddy. Try to stabilize as low as you can. Pays off in the long run. And whatever Randy tells you, just do it. You can thank him later. His head is clear. When we're on sub et al. we're compromised.
    Thanks UncleLeo.

  23. #23
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Yes go to 6 mg ..
    8 mg is huge ..
    Just my opinion but even coming off of 150mg+ of methadone
    I did not need that much..

    I promise you
    You will be pleasantly surprised..

    Less is more
    Bette

  24. #24
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Thanks Bette. That's exactly what I'll do. It had me soaring for about 4 hours. And I'm not exactly opiate naive
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  25. #25
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    It really is strong..
    Many of us that get to this place
    Are not looking to get high anymore..
    We just want to be done
    And be able to function while we are getting that way..

    You will do great
    Cuz you don't like the high anymore..
    That equals
    A sure sign of done!

    Bette

  26. #26
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv2smile View Post
    It really is strong..
    Many of us that get to this place
    Are not looking to get high anymore..
    We just want to be done
    And be able to function while we are getting that way..

    You will do great
    Cuz you don't like the high anymore..
    That equals
    A sure sign of done!

    Bette
    Absolutely. I have no interest in the high anymore. Not even a little bit.

  27. #27
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inkdbakr View Post
    Thanks Bette. That's exactly what I'll do. It had me soaring for about 4 hours. And I'm not exactly opiate naive

    Good Afternoon,

    It's hard to believe and understand right now, but when you get your dose down to the 1-2mg range you'll discover that it will hold you just like the 8mg doses now. Sub is crazy strong and a little bit goes a long, long way. As your dose gets a bit lower you'll begin to feel much better.

    Bette's suggestion to reduce to 6mg is a great one. I would only spend around 4-5 days on that dose then reduce by 25% down to 4.5mg per day. You can usually reduce the higher doses a little quicker (anything over 6mg) than you can the smaller ones. Once down to around 2-3mg you'll need to take things a bit slower usually.

    You're doing great!

    Randy
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  28. #28
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Good Afternoon,

    It's hard to believe and understand right now, but when you get your dose down to the 1-2mg range you'll discover that it will hold you just like the 8mg doses now. Sub is crazy strong and a little bit goes a long, long way. As your dose gets a bit lower you'll begin to feel much better.

    Bette's suggestion to reduce to 6mg is a great one. I would only spend around 4-5 days on that dose then reduce by 25% down to 4.5mg per day. You can usually reduce the higher doses a little quicker (anything over 6mg) than you can the smaller ones. Once down to around 2-3mg you'll need to take things a bit slower usually.

    You're doing great!

    Randy
    Thanks Randy. I took the advice and dropped to 6mg today. I did 4mg at 5am and 2mg at 5pm. It's worked great for me. I'll continue on the 6mg until Sunday. Sunday I'll try to jump to 4. 2mg in the morning and 2 mg in the evening. I sleep in on the weekend so I'll take my first 2mg around 10am and the second 2mg around 6pm if needed.

  29. #29
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inkdbakr View Post
    Thanks Randy. I took the advice and dropped to 6mg today. I did 4mg at 5am and 2mg at 5pm. It's worked great for me. I'll continue on the 6mg until Sunday. Sunday I'll try to jump to 4. 2mg in the morning and 2 mg in the evening. I sleep in on the weekend so I'll take my first 2mg around 10am and the second 2mg around 6pm if needed.

    When you said in the above highlighted quote that you will take the second 2mg dose "if needed" it sent up a red flag of sorts. You can drop from 6mg to 4mg if you want. A 25% reduction would be 4.5mg, but at this high of a dose reducing to 4mg will work just fine I know.

    But it's very important to take the same dose of sub at the same time(s) each day. That keeps a steady amount of bupe in your system, which makes you feel your best. I wouldn't skip a dose either, not right now. Follow the plan and you will do very, very well.

    Seeing as you sleep in on the weekends (very important to get your sleep) it would be fine to take your dose as mentioned.

    Randy
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  30. #30
    Inkdbakr is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Good Afternoon,

    It's hard to believe and understand right now, but when you get your dose down to the 1-2mg range you'll discover that it will hold you just like the 8mg doses now. Sub is crazy strong and a little bit goes a long, long way. As your dose gets a bit lower you'll begin to feel much better.

    Bette's suggestion to reduce to 6mg is a great one. I would only spend around 4-5 days on that dose then reduce by 25% down to 4.5mg per day. You can usually reduce the higher doses a little quicker (anything over 6mg) than you can the smaller ones. Once down to around 2-3mg you'll need to take things a bit slower usually.

    You're doing great!

    Randy
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    When you said in the above highlighted quote that you will take the second 2mg dose "if needed" it sent up a red flag of sorts. You can drop from 6mg to 4mg if you want. A 25% reduction would be 4.5mg, but at this high of a dose reducing to 4mg will work just fine I know.

    But it's very important to take the same dose of sub at the same time(s) each day. That keeps a steady amount of bupe in your system, which makes you feel your best. I wouldn't skip a dose either, not right now. Follow the plan and you will do very, very well.

    Seeing as you sleep in on the weekends (very important to get your sleep) it would be fine to take your dose as mentioned.

    Randy
    Thanks for your help Randy. I will do just that.
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