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Suboxone 4mg and Valium 10 mg want to start a taper
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Default Suboxone 4mg and Valium 10 mg want to start a taper

    I am 63 years old male and fairly healthy. I am afraid this taper is going to kill me. Do I stand a chance? Should I taper both together or one or the other first. I can not believe I have gotten myself into this situation. I have tried support groups in the past AA and NA but they do not understand the taper method. I am taking care of a two year old toddler and can't leave for a medical detox. I am taking the subs like an addict split into 2 or 3 doses a day. Usually one in the middle of the night to help sleep. It feels pretty hopeless. Does anyone have any advice? Thank you very much!!!!
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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Jeffery welcome back to the forum..
    Have you been taking the subs and Valium for the the last 7 year's? I know you were following Robert's sub taper plan. Give us a little background of what and how much you are using now. Yes this is possible but you have to really want this for yourself more than anything else. Let's us know what your plan is moving forward we are all here to support you. Again welcome back...

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Hello Nightmare... I was successful on my taper 7 years ago. I stayed clean for 3 years. I started taking 5 mg of Valium at my job of 25 years for anxiety and depression. About a year later a doctor prescribed me Tramadol. Of course I knew I shouldn't start again but I did. About a year ago someone left me a couple boxes of Subs and I took them to get off the Tramadol and never stopped.. I ended up taking about 8 mg a day and 30 mg of Valium. I am now tapered down to 4mg of Subs and 10 mg of Valium. I am having a hard time going lower. I know the taper plan well. I was just curious if I should try to quit one before the other or taper both at the same time. That and I am desperate and was looking for some kind of support. Thanks for your reply

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey jeffrey. Welcome back. Sorry It's under these circumstances. If it were me I would work on the suboxone first. Then focus on the benzos. Reason being that the benzos will help you through your sub detox. I really don't know much about benzos, other than the fact they're dangerous to stop c/t, and they need to be tapered very very slowly.

    As for the subs, I know you know the taper plan. And you say you're having issues getting below 4mg. Well youdont necessarily have to drop by 25%. You could make your first drop .5mg that would leave you on 3.5mg. Stay there for 4-7 days then drop to 3 mg. You know your body and if you're feeling more discomfort slow down the taper a bit. Make .25mg drops. The goal is to get to nothing. Who cares how long it takes you to get there. Forward progress. You can do this.

    Again this is just my opinion, and I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will be by to straighten me out.

    Keep posting. And welcome back!!
    Beef

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Thank you for the reply...I just need to keep making progress and I thought posting might help...I plan on letting the forum know how I am doing this time..I know there is a wealth of knowledge if I get in trouble...Thanks again

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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Jeffery I agree with Beef taper the subs down first you don't want to stop the benzo you need to taper off that too. It can be dangerous to stop cold turkey both physically and mentally also you can have seizures. Just my opinion if that's worth anything. Great job getting down to 4mg as you know it's still an extremely high dose. Are you dosing same time everyday one or twice a day? I do believe you should get face to face support it will hold you accountable. Just go sit and listen you don't need to share your tapering off the junk. Believe me you will find someone going threw or have gone threw tapering off the garbage. Again just my opinion but I found that having face to face support crucial for my recovery. Give it another try what do you have to lose it might just save your life. Keep posting Jeff we are all here to support you...
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    I am here for advise and support . I will take 2mg of Suboxone in the morning and 2 mg in the evening for the next 3 days. Then I will try cut to 3 mg a day. I don't know what else to say but I know I need to post. I have it in my head that I will not be able to function without it.Unfortunately I cant drop out of life right now. I hate going to the AA meetings when i am not feeling well but I will try and force myself. I use to know how to write and talk and express myself but I feel like I have lost who I am. I also think I am to old to change but I am going to give it everything I have and see what happens, Thanks for the support.
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    I have been reading the other threads. I guess I am not the only one who ends up with benzo problems getting off the subs. Also there are some older people on here who have been successful. I find this encouraging. My goal is do be totally clean. I have been there before and there is nothing like it. It also reminds me of the meetings the way people disappear. We get well and disappear and ususally know where that leads. I also can't believe how many people here are totally successful and have stuck around for years. Thanks for being here...
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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Jeff, everything you are feeling and going through is all normal. It's never to late to change. People come and people go I choose to believe they are happy and living life clean. We as Addicts have numbed our feelings and emotions with the junk. I too felt I lost myself but living life clean we learn a new way of life. For me face to face support in early recovery was beneficial. I first went to the other fellowship Aa meeting and I wanted to hang myself I just couldn't identify with alcoholics with that said when I walked into the rooms of Na I felt at home other Addicts going through the same as me. I'm not knocking the other fellowship I'm grateful for the program it has helped countless people. I also hated meetings I didn't walk in happy with I'm an addict sign on my forehead but that's what I am an addict with a fatal progressive incurable disease, but it can be arrested we can and do recover. You have to really want this for yourself more than anything else. You can do this. Keep posting Jeffery we are all here to support you...
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    hi Nightmare...I have had the same experience.. I started going to NA 31 years ago and felt at home the moment I walked in.....and I to have a hard time relating to AA... Unfortunately meetings are within walking distance and my schedule makes it almost impossible to get to NA meetings...I have also had 3 to 5 years clean 4 times in NA...but I never stuck around past 5 years and gave it 100 percent...a couple of relapses were from surgeries and the other two because I am a sick addict...also my ego is making it almost impossible to show up again with the newcomer loser status...All my old friends have 20 and 30 years clean and I guess I am trying to save face instead of my ass...hopefully that will change...I am making an appointment right now to talk to a therapist...I know what I need to do but find it really difficult..anyways thanks for the reply and I could not agree more...hopefully things are starting to change...I don't know what else to say...I am trying to stay honest on the forum...when I go to meetings I feel like I am living a lie...Thanks again

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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Jeff, well for me I know I was Done. Getting honest well I had to surrender...
    Today I chase my recovery like I chased the drugs... Yep saving face or saving your Azz... Nothing changes if nothing changes eh... Stop beating yourself up chit happens relapse happens by the grace of God you made it back. Give your friends with years of clean time a call reach out ask for help. I'm sure they will be there for support without judgement. We cannot do this alone nor do we have to. Give it 100% you are worth it... Here for you my friend...

    *Lvg*
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-14-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Quick question..I seem to want to take a milligram or 2 when I am in stressful situations or have to do something physical. It is total addict behavior. Do you think taking my whole dose once a day in the morning is a bad idea? it would be 4 mg. and then I would be done for the day and hopefully not think about it as much. In the past that is how I used it. Now my head is telling me it won,t hold me for 24 hours when I know it is suppose too. I am just curious if that is a bad idea and splitting doses is important. Thanks Jeff

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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Jeff hmmm addict behaviors yes your taking not for the physical symptoms eh. This is why face to face support is crucial. When you making your next drop?

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    I know myself all to well...thats why Im trying to be honest...If all goes well I will drop to 3 mg on Monday after the weekend. I have an AA meeting tonight at 6 pm. Hopefully i can get to meetings over the weekend...Jeff
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    Autumnhopes is offline Member
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    Hi Jeff!
    Yes u can dose once a day. But u can dose twice a day when it’s a larger dose... sometimes that’s helpful to your body.. but I understand about addict behavior... I have it all the time, even if I don’t use anything.. my behavior still neeeds to change & the underlying reasons..( I always dosed once a day. It lasted until the next day for me.)
    I don’t go to meetings but I should. I think that’s great that you do! Good job!!!! I never was able to make that scary leap & feel ashamed about that.

    May I ask, what have u learned at the meetings that has helped u the most? I could use any encouragement!!

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Thank you Autumn...I did my does all at once in the morning and I felt ok until this morning. I think I will try to stay on a once a day schedule.
    I think you would be surprised at how much the meetings help.Especially if you have never tried them before. I enjoyed Narcotics Anonymous more than Alcoholics Anonymous because I really never enjoyed drinking. It is hard to put into words why the program works. It was like the first time in my life I heard people express feelings that I had felt all my life. It might take a little trial and error to find the meeting that feels right for you. It gave me an understanding of the enemy (my addiction or craving and obsessing over drugs) and once I knew what I was up against I finally had a chance at winning the battle. It is not like school where there is a lesson to live. A lot of it is counter intuitive. Just having the willingness to go is a huge commitment to yourself and your own health and well being. If you find the right group the friendships and support can change your life. I recommend just walking in sitting down and listening. They usually go around the room and everybody says I am Jeff and I am an addict...or I am Jeff and I am an alcoholic... just copy what the person next to you says for the introduction. After that you dont have to say a word. In fact a lot of people talk to much at first and over expose themselves and never go back. Then people just raise their hand and share what is going on in their lives. It really helps to just listen. It often helps you forget your own problems and start thinking about others. I was really messed up when I first went and did not share for a few months. Then one day I was so amazed these people could talk in front of the group and be honest that I made a decision I would keep going until I felt comfortable enough to let people know what was going on with me. Gradually I found my own voice and story..I know it takes courage and desperation to go but I dont think you will regret it. I was kicking a very serious >>>>>> habit at the time and it was really the only place I felt safe and comfortable all day. It was the best most valuable time of my life and I later took it for granted and threw it all away for a stupid pill. I could go on all day but just give it a try...you really have nothing to lose. If your like me dont let the God part of it or the peoples personalities scare you away...Thanks Jeff

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Hello Forum...I just read Figureheads thread and found it very helpful and uplifting. I know I can do this if I really want it. It was great hearing about all the people who jumped and are still clean. I have taken my dose all once in the morning for two days and I think it is going to work for me. I will cut to 3mg tomorrow morning and see how that goes. If I can make it through the next night I am pretty sure I will be able to get down to 1mg. I know it will get more difficult the rest of the way. I remember when 1 mg worked for me and I still had energy, I don't know what happened to my body and how I got up to 8 mg. I use to be a firm believer and preached to all my friends on subs that less is better. I can't wait to experience that again. After that I know it gets scary but I am taking it 1 cut at a time and trying not to get to far ahead of myself. Once again the positive threads are harder to find so Thank You Figurehead for yours...Jeff
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Just checking in..I might be talking to myself but thats okay. I went to my AA meeting tonight. I dropped to 3mg and so far looks like I can make it through the night. Of coarse I feel stupid for not doing this sooner. I have an appointment with a therapist in the morning to discuss options. I know how hard it is to stay the coarse and am doing everything I can. I actually get more things done in the day the less suboxone I take. I know that will all change when I get below 1 mg. Who knows maybe it will not be as bad as I think. ...Thank you all..
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Im on day 2 of 3mg in the morning..I went to a therapist this morning and it went really good. I have a follow up appointment next week and she wants to work with me. She also gave me a number of a psychiatrist that works with drug addiction. I am a little reluctant to make an appointment because I am deathly afraid of psychiatric drugs, I am trying everything I can so I will probably go. At the least I can get my suboxone land valium legally instead of off the street and it will be one more step towards distancing myself from the drug addict life style. I am amazed at how helpful the mental health system hear in California has been. For the first time in a long time I think I can do this. Once again I am talking to myself but thats ok. Anyone else trying to get clean out there. I hope you are doing ok. Thanks
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Day 3 of 3mg. Probably a little harder than the first 2 days of a cut. Its funny how every time I get in a situation like this and make up my mind to get clean no matter what that everything else in life seems to get complicated and difficult. Especially at my age everything that can cause stress and go wrong seems to hit me. Anyway I will take 3mg tomorrow and then go down to 2.25. I should be under 1 mg fast. If it is to much I will take a few extra days between cuts. I can't wait to look at my 2 year old grand daughter in the eyes with no drugs in my system. She needs it and so do I. Hope everyone trying to get off this stuff is doing okay. Thanks

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Hello someone out there....Taking my subs once in the morning has turned out to be a good decision for me. I think way less about them during the day instead of thinking I have the option to take them when difficult situations arise. I was inspired by Frans thread in Prescription Drug Addiction...I will cut to 2.25 tomorrow morning. My session with a therapist went good. I broke down crying a few times and it felt good. She wants to work with me and I will see her next week. I should be at around 1 mg by then. I think I will better connect with AA and NA once I am off of everything. It seems like the program isn't really geared for people tapering or still using. I understand why but find it frustrating. I have a bust day ahead babysitting my 2 year old grand daughter, but I am ready for it. I think I would like to gradually reduce my valium so I am at 5 mg. when I am off of the suboxone. Maybe this is a bad idea. Fran just gave me so much hope and I pray my jump goes as well as hers. My life is in shambles and I haven't faced my problems for the las 2 or 3 years. She reminded me to be
    grateful for the little things....I guess I will keep posting even if it is so I have something to look back at ...Thanks Jeff
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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Jeffery....
    I'm sorry you thread is not getting many responses. Keep posting there are many people reading your journey. Dosing Once a day awesome our brains are pretty powerful relearning and changing our old ways eh. I'm glad the therapist is helping. I get what your saying about Na, Aa but I really do believe it will still be beneficial for your recovery Jeff. I too can justify the heck out of everything. Go just sit there you know the drill you don't have to say anything. Jeff we cannot do this alone reach out to the old timers you know. Save your Azz Jeff. Get your Azz back in that chair. Today for this addict I will do anything for my recovery. Ah Attitude of Gratitude... Make a gratitude list everyday for a month you'll be amazed at what the mind can do... Please keep reading and posting Jeff you got this get out of self will do something nice for someone. You give me Hope Jeffery.... We are all here to support you...

    ~an addict, any addict, can stop using drugs, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live.

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Thank you Lvn Nightmare...
    ..I totally agree....I still go to meetings and listen..I just mean its hard to get the full benefits...they make sure to announce that you are not to share unless you are totally clean...I guess I could lie to save my azz and would probably not be the first person to do so...I am waiting until I am totally clean to ask someone to sponsor me and work the steps...I still talk to a couple people after meetings...I find the new people the most understanding and least judgemental...I read the literature and I think your idea of a gratitude list is a great idea...I will start that immediately....Thanks again Jeff
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Hello forum...I was going to cut to 2,25 mg this morning but did 3 mg instead ...I will try again tomorrow. It is getting pretty frustrating posting here but I guess I am talking to myself. Maybe I will start a thread in "need to talk" it seems to get more action. We all pretty much know what we need to do I suppose. My heart goes out to those with serious health problems..I am just an ungrateful addict who loves to get high...life is never satisfying enough for me..if you find getting clean and staying clean difficult and sometimes depressing you are not alone....I always want more and to feel better..Ive had my months of pink clouds but they always seem to fade..I did my grateful list this morning but I better shut up before I start getting to honest...I will post again when i am in a better mood..THanks Jeff

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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Jeffrey... I'm sorry you are feeling alone but your not I promise you people are reading and lurking here. Let me ask you what was the reason for not dropping your dose? Me too I always want More more of everything the drugs, food, gambling, shoes, sex for this addict I always want more... Are you making meetings Jeff? Keep posting Jeff we are all here to support you...

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Jeffrey. Don't get discouraged. The forum has been a bit slower than usual for the past few weeks. Who knows why?? Maybe summer.. Just know that people are still reading your thread. I've been really busy at work lately but I've been keeping up with your thread just haven't found the time to post. For that I'm sorry. I tried to leave you a post two days ago but it apparently needed to be approved by a moderator. So I'm sure we will never see it again. Keep following those 25% drops whenever you're ready and stable. I know youre ready to be done with subs but it's a marathon not a sprint. Are you stable on the 3mg?? What I would do is get stable and stay there for 1 day and then drop. But never more than one day. I am a great procrastinator and I could find some excuse to stay there forever.

    Keep posting. We're here for you!!
    Beef
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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Thanks Beef.and Living...I might be trying to rush it. I am still at 3 and not going backwards. Maybe 2,25 tomorrow. Had a lousy weekend and just frustrated with myself...Just going to try and get thru today. No physical symptoms just old age, boredom, feeling worthless, and poor...all just stuff happening in my head that isn't really real. Looking forward to seeing my therapist later in the week. Jeff

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    How we doing today Jeffrey??

    Give us an update when you can
    Beef

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    jeffrey123 is offline Member
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    Thanks Beef....took 2.25 mg this morning. Physically I felt ok. I even went surfing for an hour or two. Its just constant depression from relapse and messing up my life..Im old and my head tells me its to late to get my life back but I know this is not true.. Meetings are still tough but I sit through them. I see a therapist for the second time this Thursday and look forward to that more then meetings. I am going to get totally honest with her and see if she can handle it. She says I have a great moral compass (I think I know what that means) but like most addicts I have two personalities. I hope she can handle the selfish self centered one that enjoys drugs, gambling, sex, and every other possible way to escape looking at who I am. Anyways my daughter is leaving town and I have the 2 year old all by myself for 2 days. It might sound like heaven for some people but its hard work when your 64. I so have some help so it will be ok. I hope I sleep good tonight...I should because I still take the 10 mg of valium during the day, Thanks for asking and sorry for whining but I don't know how else to make this work. Thanks Jeff

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    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Jeff - sorry the delay in welcoming you to our group. Just catching up on your thread now...

    I used to think no one was ever reading my thread and I was so so all alone...then someone told me - dude, look at your "views." Now mine is to over 81,000!! Bigger than a football stadium...you're over 550. People are reading. People care.

    One of the first things I noticed reading your thread and how I know you'll be successful is the two year old. Tapering with a toddler will surely bring some painful moments - but that kid is gonna be a real lifesaver!

    Don't feel like getting up to feed him or her? Don't worry - they don't know that! You gotta get up...and you have no choice with them whether to be present or not. They demand it and will it out of you. A lot of the people that had the best tapers had kids around them lifting them back up before they could stumble to the bottom with their rock.

    My taper def was not pretty or easy...stumbled early and often. But the people here always believed in me, even when I didn't and always cared, even when I didn't. So just keep posting. People are reading, and people do care, especially that toddler who will want a grandpa growing up...
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