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Suboxone Taper
  1. #31
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm on my 5th day without a mid-day dose. It's still tiring during the day, and on the flip side, the evening dose feels really good. Almost too good.

    Now that I'm on 4mg in the morning and 4mg in the evening, what should be my next move? Should I focus on eliminating the evening dose next so I'm at 1x a day, or should we start dropping both doses some?

  2. #32
    numbOne is offline Member
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    Excellent work eliminating the mid day dose. My next step would be 3 and 3 and wait until you are further along the taper and more stable before you go once daily.

    You got this now! Stay focused and strong.
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  3. #33
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    Cool. And that's something I think I can realistically do (or at least drop the evening to 3mg tomorrow).

    You know, before I started tapering, I was on so much of this stuff that I didn't crave it. It's now when it's lower that I actually feel it's effects more. It helps me (gives me a boost) when I take it and I kind of wish it didn't. God help me, i'm addicted to this stuff too. I just traded down to something more manageable (Tramadol was my drug of choice).

    Thank you thank you for helping me keep going. Having this accountability is doing more than you know.
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  4. #34
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbOne View Post
    Excellent work eliminating the mid day dose. My next step would be 3 and 3 and wait until you are further along the taper and more stable before you go once daily.

    You got this now! Stay focused and strong.
    Yes, numbOne is right. Don't worry about going to one dose per day right now. Most people don't do that until they reach 2 mg or less. For now, if you're stable, reduce to 6 mg (3 mg morning and 3 mg evening).

    You can do this! Congrats on eliminating that mid day dose!

  5. #35
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Good to see you have completely eliminated the middle dose. I did my entire taper on just 1 dose a day but I agree with numb one and iwantoff in splitting it to 3 and 3. Don't worry about 1 dose a day till your further along with your taper. You mention trading one addiction for another but that's where the taper plan comes in. You wean down and follow the taper plan and befor you know it your ready to jump off subs. Following the taper plan is to get off this with as little discomfort as possible. I have been off subs since December and haven't taken anything else since last August when I started subs. Im an addict and will be till the day im gone. But im not an active addict just an addict in recovery. Im ok with that though. Good luck on your drop and keep up the good job your doing. Talk with you later.

    Alex

  6. #36
    Ken2727 is offline Senior Member
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    That is great to read '' eliminated the mid day dose '' . Like the others I would not worry about 1 daily yet but just split your dose evenly and try to take at the same times daily . Get stable here with 2 doses a day then after a few more drops you can rethink it . Focus on ' TODAY ' today and let the rest come .

    When I first started I was thinking too far ahead and it is just extra , unnecessary stress . You ARE making great progress so keep up the good work . I wish you peace and wellness .
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-11-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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  7. #37
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    Well friends, I kind of failed. Friday night, instead of lowering my evening dose, I binged and INCREASED it. I was so damn tired and we were going out as a family to celebrate. My usual irrational self-talk told myself that I needed a break after working so hard at eliminating my middle of the day dose. So on Friday I went with 4mg in the morning and 6mg in the evening. I got back on track Sat & Sun with 4mg and 4mg. It has been hard to motivate myself to make that next step. I'm so tired. I must have really messed up my brain with all that excess Suboxone in 2012 (I used to take 8mg 3x a day).

    I know I have made strides, but I was a) disappointed in myself for binge-ing; and b) not making that next step. I keep hoping my next dose is going to be the one that I drop. I just have to get myself motivated again.

    Sorry to let this thread down. You guys have been so supporti

  8. #38
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Ok So you get back up on that horse and do the next right thing. As addicts, it's all we can do. You have let no one down, so let's clear that up right now, we are all addicts: whether we are active in our addiction or not. DO not just give up. You need to get back to that 6mg. dose and you can do it! You are three days at 8mg. now, drop to your six. You CAN do this. As for being tired: L-tyrosine and b6. I'm currently taking a supplement called "triple boost" which is simply herbs, b vit's, l-tyrosine. The woman at the health food store said it worked great for her, I can't testify to it, yet. The next thing you need to do is exercise. That will do more for you than anything else will. Even if it's a simple walk. Yeah, your brain is messed up a bit, but you can do a lot to heal it: plenty of good food, water, pure fruit juices, avoid processed foods, soda, etc. and energy drinks. But I bet there isn't one person on this board who hasn't messed up, relapsed, whatever. The thing they did do was get back at it: do the next right thing (Robert_325's saying). You can do this.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  9. #39
    numbOne is offline Member
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    Yep, pretty much Rose nailed it. However, i will add that you shouldnt be too hard on yourself, but definitely a little...a check is in order. What happened can be perpetuated and years and years lost. You have to want OFF like nothing else and do not allow anything to get in your way of it.

    Also remember, failure implies quitting. As Rose mentioned this is part of the process all addicts must deal with.
    You only fail when you give up. Get back on track, be STRONG and resist. Continue to reduce your daily intake and b4 you know it ur done.
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  10. #40
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks everyone. I refuse to quit. I just felt like I needed a breather before I move on to the next hurdle.

    I'm going to the vitamin store tomorrow to invest in that L-tyrosine that everyone is talking about. Also has anyone tried this stuff? I see it in the ads on this board:

    http://www.withdrawal-ease.com/produ...Fc-e4AodiCAAMQ

  11. #41
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yes90125 View Post
    Thanks everyone. I refuse to quit. I just felt like I needed a breather before I move on to the next hurdle.

    I'm going to the vitamin store tomorrow to invest in that L-tyrosine that everyone is talking about. Also has anyone tried this stuff? I see it in the ads on this board:

    http://www.withdrawal-ease.com/produ...Fc-e4AodiCAAMQ
    Hi there. Good to see you're back on track!

    There was a member here who tried Withdrawal Ease and said it worked for him. If memory serves, I think his username is Buckeye. Take a look at his thread so you can read about his experience with it. It basically contains a lot of the supplements that we all talk about to help ease WD's. Good luck!

  12. #42
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Withdrawal ease IMO is not worth the money spent. What you need is some L-tyrosine w/ b6. You can try some valerian root for anxiety and it also helps with sleep. Melatonin for sleep, helps many as does sleepy time tea. Pottasium helps as well. All pretty inexpensive. 1. must stay hydrated: water, pure fruit juices. 2. eat well: avoid processed foods. 3. Exercise, exercise, exercise. 4. Attitude, read some threads: Just about any thread here: subsnomore is a good thread. Also read the many excellent threads of people who are moving forward now: Iwantoff, SS's thread, Ken's, Iwill, and so many others. Another thing to consider is to find some counseling or NA, many find this essential in breaking addictive behaviors.

    Wish you well and keep posting: your thread, post what you need to!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  13. #43
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    Today I made the leap to 3mg in the morning and 3mg in the evening. It was finally time to move forward. I could tell a difference (really, really tired around 5pm) but I did it. I suppose I need to just stabilize at this dose now, right? Oh it's such a slow journey!! But I have come a long ways (from taking 8mg three times daily).

    I also got a hold of the L-Tyrosine. How much do people usually take and when? Should I take it when I'm tired, or take it first thing with my AM dose?

  14. #44
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yes90125 View Post
    Today I made the leap to 3mg in the morning and 3mg in the evening. It was finally time to move forward. I could tell a difference (really, really tired around 5pm) but I did it. I suppose I need to just stabilize at this dose now, right? Oh it's such a slow journey!! But I have come a long ways (from taking 8mg three times daily).

    I also got a hold of the L-Tyrosine. How much do people usually take and when? Should I take it when I'm tired, or take it first thing with my AM dose?
    You are doing so well. Yes, you've come a long way from 24 mgs. Take it slow and steady and you will succeed.

    Some people take 500 mg of L- Tyrosine, some take 2000 mgs. I take mine in the morning with B6, usually 1000 mgs. If I feel fatigue in the afternoon, I take another capsule. Try it and see how it affects you.

    Have a good night!
    Katherine

  15. #45
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    Made it through the weekend doing 3mg & 3mg Friday, 3mg & 4mg Saturday, and 3mg & 3mg Sunday. Saturday we had a long day and a longer evening and I was weak.

    I see my Sub doctor on Monday. Time for another refill. I hope to ask for only 6mg a day and work down from that. If I were to make another drop in dosage, what do you think is the next step? Drop the evening dose to 2mg? Drop both morning and evening to 2mg? Or do I need to be careful and not jump too quickly? I do feel the sense of urgency lately after realizing how much money I have wasted on this. But I have to also keep my eye on the prize. Thanks all!

  16. #46
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yes90125 View Post
    Made it through the weekend doing 3mg & 3mg Friday, 3mg & 4mg Saturday, and 3mg & 3mg Sunday. Saturday we had a long day and a longer evening and I was weak.

    I see my Sub doctor on Monday. Time for another refill. I hope to ask for only 6mg a day and work down from that. If I were to make another drop in dosage, what do you think is the next step? Drop the evening dose to 2mg? Drop both morning and evening to 2mg? Or do I need to be careful and not jump too quickly? I do feel the sense of urgency lately after realizing how much money I have wasted on this. But I have to also keep my eye on the prize. Thanks all!
    Drop the next dose to 4.5 not 4. Doesn't matter how you split it with the long half life. Also you did 7 mg Sat between 6 on Fri and Sunday. You need to quit doing that and stick with the same exact dose for as many days as it takes you to get stable. Jumping around like that will just make the taper more difficult.

    Alex
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  17. #47
    numbOne is offline Member
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    Yeah try to avoid the sense of urgency. It's there - no way to deny so just trust that many have come before you and succeeded following this basic guideline. Some times you may need to stay at a dose a little longer, but you can pretty much count the drops ahead and see the finish line. That's gotta be a huge positive motivator.
    Alex is right, you have a decent amount in your system so shouldnt feel any difference, but because this is so much mental and you have trouble with mid day lull - you might take 2.5 in the AM...or split them even 2.25 x 2.25. Just make sure you get nice and stable where you are then continue working your way down.

  18. #48
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks all. I got on here not just for advice but for accountability as well. I need to hear things like "stop doing that".

    I'm still at 3mg 2x day. It is so hard to drop as the afternoon's are killing me as-is. Is it possible that this is not related to how much i'm taking and more about not having a mid-day dose? If so, I'll drop some more. It is just taking so long to stabilize on this dose.

  19. #49
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yes90125 View Post
    Thanks all. I got on here not just for advice but for accountability as well. I need to hear things like "stop doing that".

    I'm still at 3mg 2x day. It is so hard to drop as the afternoon's are killing me as-is. Is it possible that this is not related to how much i'm taking and more about not having a mid-day dose? If so, I'll drop some more. It is just taking so long to stabilize on this dose.
    yes how far are your doses apart? If there more then 8 hrs apart you might want to move your doses to 8 hrs apart but with the long half life i dont know if that would make a difference. Some doses take longer for some people to get stable at then other doses. You dont want to drop to 4.5 if your not feeling completely stable at 6 mg. You were at one time taking 24 mg a day so your taper is going to be a bit longer then someone who started at a much lower dose and followed the the taper plan here right after they inducted.

    Alex
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  20. #50
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    I take the morning dose at 8am and the evening at 6pm. Around 3pm I start feeling very tired and lethargic and it is all I can do to make it to 6pm.

    Oddly enough yesterday, I felt great in the afternoon and I thought I was stabilizing, but today was back to old ways. Hoping tomorrow is good, but for the moment staying at 3mg, twice a day. At least I haven't gone up again like I was occasionally doing. I have the alexnt to thank for that.

  21. #51
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Try the L-tyrosine with b/6. You must take the b-6 so the l-t will work. Stay hydrated and get some kind of exercise, it will help. No energy drinks though, pure fruit juices and water. Make sure you eat healthy. And as Alex stated: don't drop until you are stable at the 3mg. twice a day. Hang tough!

    Peace,
    Iloerose
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  22. #52
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yes90125 View Post
    I take the morning dose at 8am and the evening at 6pm. Around 3pm I start feeling very tired and lethargic and it is all I can do to make it to 6pm.

    Oddly enough yesterday, I felt great in the afternoon and I thought I was stabilizing, but today was back to old ways. Hoping tomorrow is good, but for the moment staying at 3mg, twice a day. At least I haven't gone up again like I was occasionally doing. I have the alexnt to thank for that.
    yes you might want to try moving your evening dose from 6pm to 4pm. That would put them 8 hrs apart and I know that some people who dose twice a day do there doses 8 hrs apart. With the 1/2 life I don't know if it really matters but from a mental part it might help you out. I am glad to see you haven't gone back up again recently as the taper plan will never work if you jump around with it. Best wishes and will talk to you later

    Alex

  23. #53
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    i think I'm ready to drop. Is it really important to go to 4.5mg or can I try 4mg?

  24. #54
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Remember what Alex said a few posts back. Go to 4.5 mg. Yes, it matters. Don't rush this! Be patient, it will be over soon enough.
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  25. #55
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    yes while it might seem whats the difference in just dropping an extra .5 a day why take the chance of messing up your taper? That extra .5 could cause you extra discomfort and that what the taper plan is about. As little as discomfort you feel the better the odds are in your favor of reaching your goal and that goal is to be opiate free. Like Katherine said be patient it will be over soon enough.

    Alex

  26. #56
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    You were right. I was arrogant and thought I could pull 4mg instead of 4.5mg. I started by taking 2mg in the morning. End up so sick and tired that I overtake the evening dose (4mg) for a total of 6mg for the day. I set myself back by messing up the rhythm of my dosing. I know that this is making it take LONGER not SLOWER. When do I learn?

    I guess I'm impatient, not just in trying to get off this stuff, but in the work needed to break off .25 of a strip. I'm in too much of a hurry to do this. I'm just going to have to break these up the night before so I'm not rushing in the morning.

    So today, it's back to 3mg/3mg routine and make sure all is well before I do this again.

    Thank you for hanging in there and being patient with me. I hate that i'm wasting your time (not listening) and will strive to do better.

  27. #57
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    yes if you were at 6 mg and intended on dropping to 4.5 today and ended up taking 6 just go ahead and drop to 4.5 tomorrow. Its not like you messed up your taper at all but just stayed at 6 an extra day is all. If you don't feel entirely confident in dropping to 4.5 you could drop to 5. It would be less then 25% but it would be a drop. Best wishes and talk to you later. Your not wasting my time by the way.

    Alex
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-28-2013 at 10:17 PM.

  28. #58
    keepgoing1959 is offline New Member
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    I was lucky. I was only trying to wean off 40 mg oxycontin that my doctor prescribed for a neuropathic pain syndrome. I started at 8 mg Suboxone with 0 problem. The key to starting Suboxone correctly is waiting until you start to feel opiate wirhdrawal, then start. In retrospect, I wish I had started my taper immediately, but my doctor told me to take 8mg for at least three months to "stabilize". My taper went super easy at first. 8mg to 4mg, for one month. Then 2 mg for one month. Then 1 mg for one month. The taper to .5 mg was a different story.

    After just two days, my energy dropped 75% and my legs were very, very weak. I then divided the dose to .25 mg at 6:00 am and another at 1:00 pm. I HAD to do this just to function. Withdrawal started but was manageable with headaches, low back pain and generally about 50% energy. I stayed at this taper for 10 days, and the wirhdrawal subsided a bit each day but NEVER completely. The taper to .25 mg a day was much harder due to increased severity of the withdrawal symptoms, which now included loose stools, a bit of anxiety felt in my stomach and generalized lethargy. I took the dose one hour before I needed to function. The smaller the dose, for me, the longer it took to take noticeable effect. I took .25 mg for 10 days and then stopped the Suboxone.

    I'm day 5 now. The first day was no fun, day 2 and 3, AWFUL. Day four, energy returned to my legs. Day 5, I was able to function, feeling 60% energy and killer low back ache, runny nose, sneezing, and headache as the day wore on. I think I'm now improving. What REALLY helped me with withdrawal was .5 mg alprazolam in the afternoon for the anxiety (but ONLY if needed) and 300mg Provigil once per day at waking. What MADE THINGS WORSE were alcohol and caffeine. AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!! I pray the worst is over, but I've never experienced such physical discomfort as withdrawal, particularly the generalized feeling of lethargy and malaise.

    My advice: taper as soon as you can. Give your Suboxone to someone else to dole out so you can't CHEAT. Keep in close contact with your doctor, and if you work, plan to take at least one week off for when you stop completely.

    Keep going.

  29. #59
    keepgoing1959 is offline New Member
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    I forgot two important things: (1) ask your doctor about clonidine for withdrawal. It really helps. (2) at least walk as much as you can. It helped me to get out of the house so I couldn't just flop on my easy chair or bed whenever I felt like it. Day six now. Still improving in inches, VERY slow but steady.

    Keep going!

  30. #60
    yes90125 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm still here and I'm still stuck between 6mg and 8mg a day (more when the day demands more from me). I know I am sabotaging my taper by going UP. At least I should be maintaining, but i'm making it worse. Brain knows it, but my willpower ignores it. I can't believe that I lost the willpower to move things beyond that point. Again, I used to take 24mg a day (8mg three times daily) and I was so proud of how much I dropped. But to hear things, that was honestly super easy. But now I keep suffering low-energy through these afternoons and am dying for my evening dose.

    I'm fortunate I have a patient spouse. I have wasted so much time and even more money on this addiction. I want off for her and the kids. But I also play such an important role in the family. My 12 year needs micro-managing in school. I'm the only provider so I have to work hard to provide for the family. I try to take care of my body through Yoga, my spirituality in church, work on my marriage via marriage counseling, learn how to parent two kids through parenting classes, relearn 7th grade so I can help my 12 year old, keep the house clean, support a dog with cancer, visit my folks once in a while, and still try to have a social life. I know i'm blessed but life takes so much energy and I really get down if I can't provide and support. It's crushing.

    So here I stay at my current dose. I need to give myself a chance at a lower dose. Alex, you mentioned 5mg. Somehow that seems more doable. I've been at 6mg for the past four days. I'm going to try 5mg tomorrow (that's what I'm saying, I hope tomorrow I do that). Someone also mentioned taking my evening dose closer to 5pm (maybe even 4pm). That might help me make it through the day, and honestly, I don't need the energy past 9-10pm. I should be sleeping (and healing). I'm not getting much sleep and maybe that's why i'm so tired in the afternoon. Maybe it isn't withdrawal, but instead honest exhaustion (and the subs aren't masking it in the afternoon).

    Thanks everyone for your care and patience.

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