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tapering off subutex, need help & support
  1. #1
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Default tapering off subutex, need help & support

    Hello all!! I have spent a couple days reading posts on here and it has really helped me so I decided I would start a thread myself. I am currently trying to get off of sub, I have been on them for the last 5 years. I was on 16mg (prescribed) for about a year, then I decided to cut it down to 8 mg. I took the jump all at once, no tapering. I felt absolutely fine really. Maybe not 100 but I would say I was 95. Couldn't really tell much of a difference. I stayed at 8 mg for about 2 months and am now trying to work my way down and get off these darn things for good. I want to be free. I want to wake up in the morning and not need anything to be a "normal person" so to say. I am tired of going to the Dr. & the stress of having to pay for it all. I am just ready to be done with it all. I am afraid though. I am not successful at making myself do things. I am however quite successful at making excuses and making it ok to NOT do things. I read the taper plan and I want to follow it. I only took 6 mg pill 2 days ago, yesterday I took the whole 8 mg (that time of the month and was in serious pain, but it didn't help! lol so it was a true waste) and today have been successful at taking only 6 mg. I really think I could be ok at 4 mg but I read that u have to take the time to taper and do it right or what ever w/d u have will follow u through the whole tapering process?? I have quit pain pills cold turkey before, and I may be a wimp (most likely) but it was pure hell! I do not want to go through the w/d again. I had the sweats, chills, runs, body aches, couldn't sleep and what I call the weeby jeebies all over my entire body. The fear of going through all that is what has kept me on these things for so long. I have read on here that the w/d aren't as bad as others make it out to be? I have read some true horror stories online and people saying their w/d lasted a month or longer! That plum scared me to not even try! But I have seen on here people having good stories to where the w/d wasn't as bad as they thought it would be. I plan to taper like I read on here and take it day by day. I am trying to learn how to not let fear or anything else rule me, but even that is a day by day thing for me.
    A couple questions,
    My dad read this article online and it made sense to us, he ordered their products online and I have them now. It is called calm support and it is supposed to help with the w/d. Actually the article was about how to not w/d at all! They recommended a tea as well called Tulsi Tea. I also have it. Has anyone tried these products? Do they really help? Or even work?
    Regardless if I want to do this or not, I HAVE to for my kids. You would think that is enough motivation right there and I wouldn't need any more, but I do. Sometimes my fear of it all over runs motivation. I am not the best at motivating myself. Any tips on how you were able to stick with the tapering plan? I fear, bc I have already done it like yesterday, I will make it ok to myself to not stick with it and take above what I had planned. I do really want to do this, I am just struggling at this point and can use any help anyone could offer. I start school next thursday so I am hoping that will help keep me busy so I don't think about it as much. I have also wondered if I should taper or just jump off it. I see even with the taper you go thru some w/d. Maybe I should just go through it and get it over with? Oh I have so much going through my mind as you can see. I have got to beat this evilness! One way or the other. Well thanks for taking the time to read this. Even if nobody responds I will keep posting how I do just for others to come read. I know what it is like when you want to know what you are about to go through. I hope to inspire some one someday.
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  2. #2
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    Hello all!! I have spent a couple days reading posts on here and it has really helped me so I decided I would start a thread myself. I am currently trying to get off of sub, I have been on them for the last 5 years. I was on 16mg (prescribed) for about a year, then I decided to cut it down to 8 mg. I took the jump all at once, no tapering. I felt absolutely fine really. Maybe not 100 but I would say I was 95. Couldn't really tell much of a difference. I stayed at 8 mg for about 2 months and am now trying to work my way down and get off these darn things for good. I want to be free. I want to wake up in the morning and not need anything to be a "normal person" so to say. I am tired of going to the Dr. & the stress of having to pay for it all. I am just ready to be done with it all. I am afraid though. I am not successful at making myself do things. I am however quite successful at making excuses and making it ok to NOT do things. I read the taper plan and I want to follow it. I only took 6 mg pill 2 days ago, yesterday I took the whole 8 mg (that time of the month and was in serious pain, but it didn't help! lol so it was a true waste) and today have been successful at taking only 6 mg. I really think I could be ok at 4 mg but I read that u have to take the time to taper and do it right or what ever w/d u have will follow u through the whole tapering process?? I have quit pain pills cold turkey before, and I may be a wimp (most likely) but it was pure hell! I do not want to go through the w/d again. I had the sweats, chills, runs, body aches, couldn't sleep and what I call the weeby jeebies all over my entire body. The fear of going through all that is what has kept me on these things for so long. I have read on here that the w/d aren't as bad as others make it out to be? I have read some true horror stories online and people saying their w/d lasted a month or longer! That plum scared me to not even try! But I have seen on here people having good stories to where the w/d wasn't as bad as they thought it would be. I plan to taper like I read on here and take it day by day. I am trying to learn how to not let fear or anything else rule me, but even that is a day by day thing for me.
    A couple questions,
    My dad read this article online and it made sense to us, he ordered their products online and I have them now. It is called calm support and it is supposed to help with the w/d. Actually the article was about how to not w/d at all! They recommended a tea as well called Tulsi Tea. I also have it. Has anyone tried these products? Do they really help? Or even work?
    Regardless if I want to do this or not, I HAVE to for my kids. You would think that is enough motivation right there and I wouldn't need any more, but I do. Sometimes my fear of it all over runs motivation. I am not the best at motivating myself. Any tips on how you were able to stick with the tapering plan? I fear, bc I have already done it like yesterday, I will make it ok to myself to not stick with it and take above what I had planned. I do really want to do this, I am just struggling at this point and can use any help anyone could offer. I start school next thursday so I am hoping that will help keep me busy so I don't think about it as much. I have also wondered if I should taper or just jump off it. I see even with the taper you go thru some w/d. Maybe I should just go through it and get it over with? Oh I have so much going through my mind as you can see. I have got to beat this evilness! One way or the other. Well thanks for taking the time to read this. Even if nobody responds I will keep posting how I do just for others to come read. I know what it is like when you want to know what you are about to go through. I hope to inspire some one someday.
    Welcome to the forum. So you have read Robert's sub taper plan? If you use Robert's plan exactly as outlined (you don't have to worry about the induction part because you are already taking subs) then you'll do great with very little discomfort. The key to the plan is to be stable (very little to no withdrawal) before making a new reduction in dosage! If you just lowered your dose to 6mg/day then stay there for 4-5 days, if in 4-5 days you feel stable then you can reduce 25% to 4.5mg/day and stay there for 4-5 days, then reduce again by 25%, so on and so forth! 25% reductions every 4-5 days as long as your stable, if you have to take an extra day or two to stabilize then that is fine to do so? A lot of people reduce all the way down to .125mg/day or less before they do skip days and/or jump off? Are you dosing once or twice a day? Very important, make sure you dose the same time everyday! I Read Robert's plan over and over so you understand it completely without question?

    The Calm Support has ingredients that may help ease withdrawal symptoms, it certainly couldn't hurt. Calm Support can not and will not eliminate withdrawal symptoms! It is marketed more for a cold turkey detox but I think it could help people who are tapering as well! I think if I were you I would hold off on taking it until you are down to under 2mg of sub per day so you have it through the end of the taper when it would probably benefit you the most? I don't know anything about the Tulsi Tea, just make sure you do a lot of research on it? Check for any interactions with the subs, side effects, etc...? Keep us updated and if you have any further questions and/or concerns let us know? Good luck... God bless us all!
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  3. #3
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there, welcome.

    I can definitely relate. I was on/off Sub for years. I used the taper plan to get off of it. It really does work but you need to be patient, especially after 5 years. Sub has a very long half-life and the drug builds up in your system. So, even at 8 mg or 6 mg per day, you actually have more than that in your system. That's why jumping off at that dose would be a nightmare. I would definitely advise against it.

    The taper plan is pretty basic. Reduce by 25% only when stable. Don't rush. People who are new to Sub can generally reduce comfortably every 4-5 days. But those who've been on it for extended periods of time need to stay at each dose longer to get nice and stable. Yes, it can be frustrating and will test your patience. But if you do it right, you'll never have to do it again. You must be consistent. Don't go up and down in dosage as it will only throw you off. You're at 6 mg, right? Stay there and get stable. Take your dose at the same time every day -- this is important.

    As for the supplements like Calm Support, Withdrawal Ease, Elimidrol, etc...I never had much luck with those products. I think they're most beneficial to people with very low opiate habits. The thing that helped me was taking supplements like a balanced B-100 complex, multivitamin and L-Tyrosine with B6, I used 3-5 mg Melatonin to help me sleep.

    Countless people have used the taper plan successfully. You just gotta stay focused. I also used AA/NA meetings for support which was a huge help. There's nothing like face to face support when you're in recovery.

    Hope this helps.
    Kat

    EDIT -- looks like Ricky and I were posting to you at the same time
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-30-2016 at 06:30 PM.
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  4. #4
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Welcome to the forum. So you have read Robert's sub taper plan? If you use Robert's plan exactly as outlined (you don't have to worry about the induction part because you are already taking subs) then you'll do great with very little discomfort. The key to the plan is to be stable (very little to no withdrawal) before making a new reduction in dosage! If you just lowered your dose to 6mg/day then stay there for 4-5 days, if in 4-5 days you feel stable then you can reduce 25% to 4.5mg/day and stay there for 4-5 days, then reduce again by 25%, so on and so forth! 25% reductions every 4-5 days as long as your stable, if you have to take an extra day or two to stabilize then that is fine to do so? A lot of people reduce all the way down to .125mg/day or less before they do skip days and/or jump off? Are you dosing once or twice a day? Very important, make sure you dose the same time everyday! I Read Robert's plan over and over so you understand it completely without question?

    The Calm Support has ingredients that may help ease withdrawal symptoms, it certainly couldn't hurt. Calm Support can not and will not eliminate withdrawal symptoms! It is marketed more for a cold turkey detox but I think it could help people who are tapering as well! I think if I were you I would hold off on taking it until you are down to under 2mg of sub per day so you have it through the end of the taper when it would probably benefit you the most? I don't know anything about the Tulsi Tea, just make sure you do a lot of research on it? Check for any interactions with the subs, side effects, etc...? Keep us updated and if you have any further questions and/or concerns let us know? Good luck... God bless us all!
    Yes I read the plan yesterday and yes, I plan to stay at my dose for 4 days at least. I will go down if I feel good here. I am not using the calm support yet, I was saving it for when I did my final jump, to help any real w/d I would have then. I don't know, maybe I am just wishful thinking but I think I can taper without any help, I don't think the w/d from tapering will be that bad just bc I was able to go from 16 mg to 8 mg with no w/d. However I have read the lower you go the more you will feel the w/d. I will def keep y'all updated. I have drank a couple cups of the tea and it is mighty tasty but I think it will be more effective when I make my final jump off of theses so I am saving it as well. Right now I am cutting it into 3 1/4 doses a day. I was hoping by Thursday I would be down to 4 mg and then I will only take it twice a day. I don't dose at any paticular time right now, just when I feel I need to, but I will def make sure I start doing it at certain times. What is the reason for this? Thanks so much for replying!
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  5. #5
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    Hi there, welcome.

    I can definitely relate. I was on/off Sub for years. I used the taper plan to get off of it. It really does work but you need to be patient, especially after 5 years. Sub has a very long half-life and the drug builds up in your system. So, even at 8 mg or 6 mg per day, you actually have more than that in your system. That's why jumping off at that dose would be a nightmare. I would definitely advise against it.

    The taper plan is pretty basic. Reduce by 25% only when stable. Don't rush. People who are new to Sub can generally reduce comfortably every 4-5 days. But those who've been on it for extended periods of time need to stay at each dose longer to get nice and stable. Yes, it can be frustrating and will test your patience. But if you do it right, you'll never have to do it again. You must be consistent. Don't go up and down in dosage as it will only throw you off. You're at 6 mg, right? Stay there and get stable. Take your dose at the same time every day -- this is important.

    As for the supplements like Calm Support, Withdrawal Ease, Elimidrol, etc...I never had much luck with those products. I think they're most beneficial to people with very low opiate habits. The thing that helped me was taking supplements like a balanced B-100 complex, multivitamin and L-Tyrosine with B6, I used 3-5 mg Melatonin to help me sleep.

    Countless people have used the taper plan successfully. You just gotta stay focused. I also used AA/NA meetings for support which was a huge help. There's nothing like face to face support when you're in recovery.

    Hope this helps.
    Kat

    EDIT -- looks like Ricky and I were posting to you at the same time
    Thank You! I am not sure how much this calm support will help but hopefully when I jump off for good, it will help with any discomfort I may have. I have been think about getting a multivitamin as well, I think that is a wonderful idea. I do go to meetings on Tuesday nights, they are a help, but it is the in between that gets to me. Like I said, I hope starting school will help too. I was using Melatonin to sleep but I stopped that way when I get to the part where I will seriously struggle to sleep, it will hopefully work. As long as I can get at least 4-5 hrs of sleep, I will be fine! I already operate on about that much now. I will write down all those things u suggested and def get them and give them a try. Anything that will help!! Thank you so much for your help.
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  6. #6
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    Yes I read the plan yesterday and yes, I plan to stay at my dose for 4 days at least. I will go down if I feel good here. I am not using the calm support yet, I was saving it for when I did my final jump, to help any real w/d I would have then. I don't know, maybe I am just wishful thinking but I think I can taper without any help, I don't think the w/d from tapering will be that bad just bc I was able to go from 16 mg to 8 mg with no w/d. However I have read the lower you go the more you will feel the w/d. I will def keep y'all updated. I have drank a couple cups of the tea and it is mighty tasty but I think it will be more effective when I make my final jump off of theses so I am saving it as well. Right now I am cutting it into 3 1/4 doses a day. I was hoping by Thursday I would be down to 4 mg and then I will only take it twice a day. I don't dose at any paticular time right now, just when I feel I need to, but I will def make sure I start doing it at certain times. What is the reason for this? Thanks so much for replying!
    With subs, less is more! You can make bigger drops from high doses without issues because of the ceiling effect of the subs and this is why you had no issues dropping to 8mg from 16mg! People are being inducted on way too much sub to begin with, most people can become stable on 4mg or less per day? Taking subs over the ceiling effect does not increase the subs effect! There is a lot of different and conflicting information on the actual ceiling effect dose? I've read the ceiling dose to be as high as 32mg to as low as 4mg? The reason to take your sub at the same time every day is to keep a consistent amount of subs in your system. Be well... God bless us all!

    PS
    Yes, Kat and I were replying to you at the same time earlier!

  7. #7
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    With subs, less is more! You can make bigger drops from high doses without issues because of the ceiling effect of the subs and this is why you had no issues dropping to 8mg from 16mg! People are being inducted on way too much sub to begin with, most people can become stable on 4mg or less per day? Taking subs over the ceiling effect does not increase the subs effect! There is a lot of different and conflicting information on the actual ceiling effect dose? I've read the ceiling dose to be as high as 32mg to as low as 4mg? The reason to take your sub at the same time every day is to keep a consistent amount of subs in your system. Be well... God bless us all!

    PS
    Yes, Kat and I were replying to you at the same time earlier!
    Oh I see. So I wouldn't be able to continue this pattern, it will catch up with me. I will try to go down 25% but being I take the tablet form this might become hard, but I am sure with everyone's help I will find a way. It's 8:30 am and I haven't dosed yet, so I will make sure I do it at certain times from now on. I use to take my meds as soon as I woke up and then I pushed myself to wait a couple hours after I woke up and I remain doing that. I feel pretty good this morning, aside from normal feelings, no w/d or anything yet. Doing good on the 6 mg hoping Tuesday will be my last day here and on Wednesday I can drop to 4 mg. It sure is helping being able to talk to you guys on here and I appreciate the advice more than you would ever know!!! Nobody in my area has ever got off these things, so I am their guinea pig. I don't mind, but I do wish there was someone I could look to myself. Very thankful I found this place! God bless us all indeed!!
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  8. #8
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    Oh I see. So I wouldn't be able to continue this pattern, it will catch up with me. I will try to go down 25% but being I take the tablet form this might become hard, but I am sure with everyone's help I will find a way. It's 8:30 am and I haven't dosed yet, so I will make sure I do it at certain times from now on. I use to take my meds as soon as I woke up and then I pushed myself to wait a couple hours after I woke up and I remain doing that. I feel pretty good this morning, aside from normal feelings, no w/d or anything yet. Doing good on the 6 mg hoping Tuesday will be my last day here and on Wednesday I can drop to 4 mg. It sure is helping being able to talk to you guys on here and I appreciate the advice more than you would ever know!!! Nobody in my area has ever got off these things, so I am their guinea pig. I don't mind, but I do wish there was someone I could look to myself. Very thankful I found this place! God bless us all indeed!!
    I did my whole taper in 2014 with the 8 mg Subtutex tablets. You have to crush them to get to the right dose, especially when you're dealing with decimal points. For instance, your next 25% drop from 6 mg will be to 4.5 mg, not 4 mg. It may seem like that extra .5mg doesn't matter, but it usually does. Trust me on this. It's sometimes a pain the *** to get to particular doses by crushing but it's so worth it.

    Getting to 4.5 mg is pretty easy. After you split your 8 mg tablet in half to get 4 mg, take the other 4 mg piece and break/cut it in half to get two pieces of 2 mg each. Then, take one 2 mg piece and place it on a plate. Using the back of a spoon (using both hands w/ index fingers and thumbs around the spoon part), crush that piece into powder. Split the powder into 4 even piles of .5 mg each. After you've taken your 4 mg piece, take a business card and crease it. Push a .5 mg pile into the crease using a butter knife (or whatever works) and pour it under your tongue. Seems complicated, I know. But I followed the 25% drops throughout my entire taper and got off Sub successfully after 8 long hours years.

    Kat

    PS -- as for storage of the other .5 mg piles: I always left them on the plate, covered it with foil and put it in a cupboard where I knew it wouldn't be disturbed. No biggy.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-31-2016 at 02:04 PM.
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  9. #9
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Oh thank you so much! This is very good to know. I really didn't think there would be any difference at all in .5 mg. I was just gonna go down to 4 mg due to the fact I didn't know how to get 4.5 mg. I am so glad I found this forum and for your help. Good thing I didn't listen to my Dr. and I found this tapering plan and you all on here. My Dr. told me you taper down 1/4 (2 mg) every week until you are done! However my Dr. has never had anyone get off of these. She told me she is using me as an example for others. I am pretty much her guinea pig. She doesn't know anything about getting off them and is depending on me to come in and tell her what works, how it works, and so on so she can tell her other patients. I DO wish I could shout to the world not to get on these things long-term. You don't fix a whole lot doing it. I know I got on them b/c I didn't want to go through the w/d and here I am years later, faced with the same issue. I would tell them, use it to get you through your w/d, do the induction like is on the plan here, see where you need to be, stay there for about 3-4 days and then start tapering off. That is so much of a better plan to me and I wish that was what my Dr. had done!! I was the naive patient that just "trusted" and did what the Dr. said. Yes I will always be an addict, and I will probably always fight cravings, but I can not wait for the day when I can say, "There's no chains on me!!"
    I see you have 2 years clean under your belt? That Is AMAZING!! Gives me so much hope. I am glad you have been so successful even years after Kat!! That is just Awesome!! Congrats to you!
    I am thinking if I do this taper correctly, following it to a T, when I make the jump off my w/d won't be half as bad as when I quit pain pills cold turkey? That was pure hell!! If I have to go through that hell again, I will, but I pray it won't be that bad.
    I decided to take one of the calm supports today since I wasn't really feel that bad, just to see what difference it made on a "good day" so I had an idea on what to expect later. I figured it might be better now to find out what will happen taking it instead of waiting until I have in w/d and relying on it to work. Guess I would rather know now if it don't work at all then later on. I don't feel much different physically but I can tell you mentally it has helped! I feel more positive, calm, and focused. I think it will be a BIG help when I am in the last week of my tapering and then after I make the jump.
    I decided also, dosing 3 times a day wasn't such a good idea. I was told the importance of dosing at the same time so with that in mind, I took 4 mg at once this morning around 10 am. I felt fine all day. At 5pm I decided to take the other 2 mg even though I really didn't need it, I think I could have gone without it completely, but I am not listening to what I think b/c I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, I am certain the ones who have done it know more than me. Tomorrow I plan to follow these times. My question is once I get down to the lower doses of 2mg or even less like .5 mg, should I take it once a day or split it into two times a day? If I continue to dose twice daily, can I move to once daily later on in my taper? Which do you think would be the best, dosing once a day or twice a day? I just really want to do this right. I want this to be my final round, shut & lock the door forever!! I am not gonna chance messing this up so I am taking in all the advice I can get. Again, thank you so much for the help.
    I know with God by my side & the help from everyone here, I will beat this!!
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  10. #10
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    Oh thank you so much! This is very good to know. I really didn't think there would be any difference at all in .5 mg. I was just gonna go down to 4 mg due to the fact I didn't know how to get 4.5 mg. I am so glad I found this forum and for your help. Good thing I didn't listen to my Dr. and I found this tapering plan and you all on here. My Dr. told me you taper down 1/4 (2 mg) every week until you are done! However my Dr. has never had anyone get off of these. She told me she is using me as an example for others. I am pretty much her guinea pig. She doesn't know anything about getting off them and is depending on me to come in and tell her what works, how it works, and so on so she can tell her other patients. I DO wish I could shout to the world not to get on these things long-term. You don't fix a whole lot doing it. I know I got on them b/c I didn't want to go through the w/d and here I am years later, faced with the same issue. I would tell them, use it to get you through your w/d, do the induction like is on the plan here, see where you need to be, stay there for about 3-4 days and then start tapering off. That is so much of a better plan to me and I wish that was what my Dr. had done!! I was the naive patient that just "trusted" and did what the Dr. said. Yes I will always be an addict, and I will probably always fight cravings, but I can not wait for the day when I can say, "There's no chains on me!!"
    I see you have 2 years clean under your belt? That Is AMAZING!! Gives me so much hope. I am glad you have been so successful even years after Kat!! That is just Awesome!! Congrats to you!
    I am thinking if I do this taper correctly, following it to a T, when I make the jump off my w/d won't be half as bad as when I quit pain pills cold turkey? That was pure hell!! If I have to go through that hell again, I will, but I pray it won't be that bad.
    I decided to take one of the calm supports today since I wasn't really feel that bad, just to see what difference it made on a "good day" so I had an idea on what to expect later. I figured it might be better now to find out what will happen taking it instead of waiting until I have in w/d and relying on it to work. Guess I would rather know now if it don't work at all then later on. I don't feel much different physically but I can tell you mentally it has helped! I feel more positive, calm, and focused. I think it will be a BIG help when I am in the last week of my tapering and then after I make the jump.
    I decided also, dosing 3 times a day wasn't such a good idea. I was told the importance of dosing at the same time so with that in mind, I took 4 mg at once this morning around 10 am. I felt fine all day. At 5pm I decided to take the other 2 mg even though I really didn't need it, I think I could have gone without it completely, but I am not listening to what I think b/c I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, I am certain the ones who have done it know more than me. Tomorrow I plan to follow these times. My question is once I get down to the lower doses of 2mg or even less like .5 mg, should I take it once a day or split it into two times a day? If I continue to dose twice daily, can I move to once daily later on in my taper? Which do you think would be the best, dosing once a day or twice a day? I just really want to do this right. I want this to be my final round, shut & lock the door forever!! I am not gonna chance messing this up so I am taking in all the advice I can get. Again, thank you so much for the help.
    I know with God by my side & the help from everyone here, I will beat this!!
    I dosed twice a day at the same time every day until I got down to 1 mg. Then I only dosed once a day. Makes it easier because the doses are so small. As long as you follow the 25% drops and only reduce when you're stable, you'll be just fine. There may be some minor discomfort once you jump off completely but it's nothing like quitting cold turkey. I promise.

    Well, here's my bad news: I would have had 2 years clean by next month. Unfortunately, I had a major relapse after 17 months clean so now I'm back posting and am actually in the process of re-induction to Sub this evening. I feel like such a fool for letting this happen after all that clean time. Just goes to show how cunning and powerful addiction is. Right now I'm waiting to reach a 26 on the COWS scale so I can induct. Ugh. The worst. I feel awful. But hopefully I only have a few more hours to go until I take my first .5 mg of Sub.

    Kat

  11. #11
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    I dosed twice a day at the same time every day until I got down to 1 mg. Then I only dosed once a day. Makes it easier because the doses are so small. As long as you follow the 25% drops and only reduce when you're stable, you'll be just fine. There may be some minor discomfort once you jump off completely but it's nothing like quitting cold turkey. I promise.

    Well, here's my bad news: I would have had 2 years clean by next month. Unfortunately, I had a major relapse after 17 months clean so now I'm back posting and am actually in the process of re-induction to Sub this evening. I feel like such a fool for letting this happen after all that clean time. Just goes to show how cunning and powerful addiction is. Right now I'm waiting to reach a 26 on the COWS scale so I can induct. Ugh. The worst. I feel awful. But hopefully I only have a few more hours to go until I take my first .5 mg of Sub.

    Kat
    Hey, that is ok!! U have caught yourself, yes? You are making the steps to fix it, yes? There are some that would just drown themselves with it. Addiction is a life long battle!! Just like cancer, there are up times and down times. You're such a strong person! I am sure u feel like pure hell right now, and u don't have to be feeling this way. You are making that choice! You're not alone. I have been "tapering" for a couple months, got down to 6 mg and then went back up, now got myself back down and hoping to keep going down. I know that is not the same, but in a way it is. The addiction in me took control after I hit a hard patch. I go to therapy, and my therapist told me it is like this...

    We are walking in the woods and there are two paths, one is familiar and beaten down, we know this path b/c we have taken it many times before, but at the end of it is a herd of bears, the second path, its all grown over, u can't really see where u are going and it is not familiar at all but everyone keeps telling us to go down that path b/c there is something really wonderful at the end of it. We usually choose the path that is familiar and beaten down but if we would take the other path, the more we took it, the more beaten down it will get and the more grown over the other path will be. Our brains work much like the paths. We literally have to burn new paths in our brain. The only way to do this though is by choosing to take that unfamiliar path over and over. Eventually it just becomes the path we take, but only after choosing to do it for awhile first. Being addicts we want to choose what is familiar, and "fixing" our brain is not the easiest thing to do.

    So here I am, posting on here for motivation, someone to talk to that understands, hoping and praying I can do this. The addict in us always says we can't, and makes us feel worthless. BUT WE ARE NOT! You are gonna get thru this. Forgive yourself if u haven't already. I hope by now u have gotten to take the sub and are feeling better. You beat this once and you can beat it again! Sometimes, even when we know it will hurt us, we take the other path bc we are already hurting. I figure u know all this. I believe in you. You have already shown how extremely strong you are. Keep your beautiful head up and keep looking forward!
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  12. #12
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Kittylover
    Found your thread! I think you will be surprised & delighted at Who You Are underneath all the drugs! I know i was!
    I remember feeling like I didn't know who i was anymore. We get sedated and it clouds our minds. It's hard to make good decisions when not thinking clearly. It's a miracle any of us ever found our way out of that maze. But we did! And if we could succeed, so can you. The taper process combined w the support from The Forum members enabled me to go from a walking corpse zombie to a happy free person.
    You can too! I promise!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-01-2016 at 08:22 AM.

  13. #13
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Awe Ming Thank you so much!! You will never know how much your encouragement means to me.

    I have a quick question for anyone who can answer? I have a friend who is also trying to do this tapering plan, they aren't the type to post on things like this and such (even though I highly encouraged it) so they were wanting to me get some advice. They have been on 4 mg for a bout a while and they are stable there, they are wanting to go down again which I believe is 2.75 mg? They are also tapering with an 8 mg tablet like me. They asked me how would they get the .75 since they want to take the 2 mg in the morning and the .75 in the afternoon. I know that it a little bit more than .5 but I don't know how to do it to get it precise and correct. Any ideas? How much is a .75 dose? Thank you all so much!
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  14. #14
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    And I am really just having problems with figuring out if I want to take my second dose in the afternoon around 2 pm or mor towards the evening around 5 pm. How did you all split them up and what worked best for you? I see my kids today at 3 pm so this is why I am debating on taking my dose then. I don't want to get into it, but it is important that I am at my best on my visit with my kids from 3-5 today (every monday). Yesterday I took it at 5 pm. If i take my dose at 2 pm today will I totally mess everything up?? Wow, I really didn't realize I would have so many questions with this, LOL! Thanks for your patience with me though. You all are GREAT!!
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  15. #15
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    And I just noticed I don't think I am doing the math on this 25% decrease correctly. Can someone please tell me the doses from 6 mg down and 4 mg down. I am in school for my GED now but I just am no good at math yet LOL not even with a calculator. I may have the right doses and done the math right, but I do just want to check with someone to make sure. Like I said, I really want to do this right!!
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  16. #16
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    And I just noticed I don't think I am doing the math on this 25% decrease correctly. Can someone please tell me the doses from 6 mg down and 4 mg down. I am in school for my GED now but I just am no good at math yet LOL not even with a calculator. I may have the right doses and done the math right, but I do just want to check with someone to make sure. Like I said, I really want to do this right!!
    25% reduction from 6mg is 1.5mg (1.5 × 4 = 6) so your new dose will be 4.5mg. Split this dose evenly, 8-10 hours apart, take your doses at the same times everyday day, this is very important! For example, take your 1st dose of 2.25mg at 9am then take your 2nd dose of 2.25mg at 6pm (that's 9 hours apart) so your total daily dose is 4.5mg (2.25 + 2.25 = 6). Do not take any more sub until 9am the next morning, then you'll repeat the same thing for a total of 4-5 days. In 4-5 days as long as you are stable (little to no withdrawal symptoms) you can do your next 25% reduction? Remember not to do your reduction until you are stable on the current dose, if you have to take a few more days longer to get stable then that is okay? If you have any questions at anytime just ask? You'll be fine! Take care... God bless us all!

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    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    25% reduction from 6mg is 1.5mg (1.5 × 4 = 6) so your new dose will be 4.5mg. Split this dose evenly, 8-10 hours apart, take your doses at the same times everyday day, this is very important! For example, take your 1st dose of 2.25mg at 9am then take your 2nd dose of 2.25mg at 6pm (that's 9 hours apart) so your total daily dose is 4.5mg (2.25 + 2.25 = 6). Do not take any more sub until 9am the next morning, then you'll repeat the same thing for a total of 4-5 days. In 4-5 days as long as you are stable (little to no withdrawal symptoms) you can do your next 25% reduction? Remember not to do your reduction until you are stable on the current dose, if you have to take a few more days longer to get stable then that is okay? If you have any questions at anytime just ask? You'll be fine! Take care... God bless us all!
    Correction, my bad! - (2.25 + 2.25 = 4.5) not (2.25 + 2.25 = 6)... See, we all make make mistakes from time to time! We'll help you with the proper reductions and dosages as you continue to taper. Be well...

  18. #18
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    And I am really just having problems with figuring out if I want to take my second dose in the afternoon around 2 pm or mor towards the evening around 5 pm. How did you all split them up and what worked best for you? I see my kids today at 3 pm so this is why I am debating on taking my dose then. I don't want to get into it, but it is important that I am at my best on my visit with my kids from 3-5 today (every monday). Yesterday I took it at 5 pm. If i take my dose at 2 pm today will I totally mess everything up?? Wow, I really didn't realize I would have so many questions with this, LOL! Thanks for your patience with me though. You all are GREAT!!
    What time are you taking you first dose of the day? I'm such a dork -- when I explained the 4.5mg to you yesterday (crushing it up to get that extra .5), I totally forgot about splitting your daily dose in half. It's been so long since I've tapered that I completely forgot that it's best to split your dose in half when you're still up at higher doses. Like now, you should be splitting your 6mg dose in half -- 3 mg & 3 mg. So yeah, once you get to 4.5mg, split it into two doses of 2.25 mg. Just take one of those .5mg piles I mentioned, split it in half with a business card and take it after your 2mg piece.

    Like Ricky mentioned, you need to make sure your doses are 8-12 hours apart. I always dosed at 8am & 8 pm, but that's just me. It's ok to take your dose a little early today if necessary, but after that, stick to a schedule. It's important to have a consistent amount of Sub in your system at all times to remain stable.

    Here are your reductions from here on out: 4.5, 3.5, 2.75, 2.25, 1.75, 1.25, 1, .75, .50, .375, .25

    The drop from 1.75 to 1.25 is slightly more than 25%, so if it you want, you could drop to 1.5 first, before going to 1.25. The drop from .75 to .5 is also slightly more than 25%, but at such a low dose, I wouldn't worry about it when you get there.

    Kat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 08-01-2016 at 11:52 AM.

  19. #19
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank You Ricky and Kat. Yes we all do make mistakes, it is nice to have others here to help in those times!! Well I have been doing it so totally wrong!!! I have been taking 4 mg at 9:30 and then 2 mg at 5 pm. Not an even split or anything. Ugh. I will get this sooner or later, hopefully sooner!! Lol.
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  20. #20
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    Thank You Ricky and Kat. Yes we all do make mistakes, it is nice to have others here to help in those times!! Well I have been doing it so totally wrong!!! I have been taking 4 mg at 9:30 and then 2 mg at 5 pm. Not an even split or anything. Ugh. I will get this sooner or later, hopefully sooner!! Lol.
    I wouldn't worry too much about the 4mg + 2mg thing. Not a huge deal, especially if you're going down to 4.5mg soon. But it would be best to split your dose evenly from here on out.

    Kat
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  21. #21
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    How would you do it to get 2.75? That has me totally confuzzled (if that is a word haha) My husband is trying to taper down along with me, that will be his next dose and I've not got an early clue how u get the .75 and to do that in 2 doses it would be 1.3? Not sure how u would get that either. Ugh, maybe this will help me learn my math. I can only hope. Thank you guys so much for the help. Kinda embarrassed I don't know how to do this. Too many years using and not enough learning I guess.
    Today is the Only Day You Have

  22. #22
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about the 4mg + 2mg thing. Not a huge deal, especially if you're going down to 4.5mg soon. But it would be best to split your dose evenly from here on out.

    Kat
    Ok, I most certainly will. Tomorrow I will try to split it evenly though so I can get use to this pattern.
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  23. #23
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittylover84 View Post
    How would you do it to get 2.75? That has me totally confuzzled (if that is a word haha) My husband is trying to taper down along with me, that will be his next dose and I've not got an early clue how u get the .75 and to do that in 2 doses it would be 1.3? Not sure how u would get that either. Ugh, maybe this will help me learn my math. I can only hope. Thank you guys so much for the help. Kinda embarrassed I don't know how to do this. Too many years using and not enough learning I guess.
    For 2.75 mg, it'll be easiest to split it into 1.5 and 1.25 mg. Splitting it in half is too much of a nightmare, lol. I explained in my earlier posts how to get .5 mg and .25 mg by crushing to powder. It it's confusing, let me know.

    Kat
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  24. #24
    Misty234 is offline Member
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    Hey Kittylover,

    Math was my worse subject too..LOL. I had to taper using pills also it really is a pain and can be confusing but if you are not sure just ask people are always great on this forum about helping each other it's really awesome. Don't be afraid to ask better to ask then sit there and wonder if your doing it right you only want to do this once ? I never thought I could do this but I have a little over 3 months off subs I can't even believe I'm typing that you can do it you just have to really want it bad enough....Take Care...Lisa
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  25. #25
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    Today I am just kinda thinking, why spend all this time tapering, going through the withdrawal each time I go down in dose? Why not just jump off and get done with the withdrawal if I am gonna have any? From what I have read from others on here, there really isn't any getting out of it? Aren't I just dragging it out? Spend 8 weeks or more going through "mild" w/d and then possibly another month? Why not just do it and get it over with? My therapist said the brain is an amazing thing. It can make u feel sick when you aren't, make u think you are pregnant when u aren't. If I could figure out how to channel that and believe in my mind I won't be sick, she thinks I can do it. Def sounds easier to do than actually doing it though. Oh I just want to be free and done. Today is my birthday. Gonna try to make a good one. I thank God I have got to live 32 years, and I hope to live another 32 but better!!

    God Bless
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  26. #26
    Misty234 is offline Member
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    Kitty,

    I tried jumping from a dose of 8mg of suboxone and let me tell you what mistake that was. I felt HORRIBLE I mean it was really something that I never want to suffer through again. Do this once and do it right so you'll ever have to do it again...what I' trying to say is stick with tapering in the end you ill be better off. The W/D won't be as bad trust me I followed the taper to the letter the second time I tried getting off the subs and I was so much better off than I was jumping from a high dose. I know your not jumping from 8mg but the lower you go the better slow and steady wins the race in getting off suboxone.Of course it's up to you but the taper plan helps to make the W/D less severe so that's why I would try to stay with tapering. You are doing great hang in here. Take Care...Lisa

  27. #27
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Kitty
    If u want to succeed in the taper, then tapering down is the way. The prob w jumping from 6 mg is the pain, both mental and physical. Any therapist who suggests you can control the withdrawal with your mind--well, they're either inexperienced or just an ass.
    The wd from subs can be excruciating. Ask Misty. The point of all this suffering is to successfully detox off the drugs. Do it right and u only have to go through it once. Kind if a motto around here.
    Thousands of folks on this Forum have been in ur shoes. Unlikr ur therapist, we have walked the walk and returned to share the Good News w others--this taper works and in 8 weeks or so you can be free!!!
    Hang in there. Put doubts aside & determine to succeed. If i could do it (66 y old), u can do it at 32!
    You'll never regret it! Promise!
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  28. #28
    Misty234 is offline Member
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    Hey Kitty,

    Just checking on you how is everything going? Give us status when you can please?

  29. #29
    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    Omg Kitty- that person is a therapist? Wouldn't her answer to every problem people see a therapist for then just be "don't worry, it's all in your head. You're fine." Thank god you found this board. It's frightening how clueless so many docs are...you're doing great on the taper. Hang in there.

  30. #30
    kittylover84 is offline Junior Member
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    I am doing good. I have stuck to the taper and went down in dose again yesterday. However, I am still feeling I should just do it, just stop and go thru what I have to go thru. I am a christian, and I feel God might be telling me to take that leap of faith. I haven't taken any today. Last dose was at 2pm yesterday. Tapering does seem easier, but if I could just be done, that would be great too. I think I am just gonna play it by ear so to say, see how far I can get without taking any, and if I feel too bad I can always take my dose. I think this is the only way for me to figure out what God is telling me to do here. I am sure he will make it clear if I am to taper or just stop. I believe God can heal me, however I also believe in his will not mine. His plan is always better than any plan I could make. I am trusting in him right now to show me what to do.
    Thank you all for checking up on me. I have been wrestling with this for 2 days now. Hopefully I am coming upon my answers soon. And hey, if God does deliver me, what a testimony I could give and what glory I could bring to him!! Either way though, I know freedom is just around the corner for me.

    God Bless
    Today is the Only Day You Have

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