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Trying to taper of subs but doc started me too high 12 mgs what to do now?
  1. #1
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Default Trying to taper of subs but doc started me too high 12 mgs what to do now?

    Hi all. I am freaking out right now as I have read a lot about the taper off suboxone here. I was doing about .25 to .5 gram of high quality >>>>>> probably mixed with fentinal as that is what is going on here in Vancouver BC. I was mixing with Coke and IVing.

    I have been on suboxone for 5 days at 10-12 mg. I think too high can I quick taper to 4 mg then by 25% every 4 days? I read on here my dose is probably to high and should be at 4 mg maybe?

    I relapsed last year in 2015 and did a short suboxone taper. That started at 8 and went to 1 mg in a week then 72 hours later had wd symptoms and could not sleep and took a Percocet went to sleep and stayed clean maybe 4 more days with no wd symptoms but then relapsed when drinking.

    NEW PLAN - no more drinking and use my support groups again.

    I understand the short tapers are not working. I wonder how I got off 3 grams of iv China white 16 years ago with nothing but cold turkey. Almost felt like I would die and RLS and bad sleep lasted almost 2 months but no methadone and never heard of subs back then.

    Right now I hate being on any opiate and I have to work full time. How do I get off fast as possible without risking a high chance of relapse.

    Right now my plan is. 8 mg tomorrow 6 next day and 4 next day and then hold for 4 days then go down slowly from there. Does that make sense to any veterans in the sub world? My other idea is stop subs until I feel sick then go up 1 mg every two hours until stabilize and see where I am and then do the 25% taper as discussed by Sticky -

    I am so sorry to hear Robert 325 passed away I read so much of his stuff this summer about a guy 3 to 4 years ago that did a sub taper in 4 days and never looked back ....it was so inspiring I felt i knew them.....but realized it all went down years ago so I never chimed in. I have gone through many horrific opiate detoxes in my life and I so identify with the people on here.....it can be hell on earth

    Thank you all very much. Scared to death but have some clonazapam and clonadine to last 5 days after I jump off.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-22-2016 at 08:11 PM.
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  2. #2
    B-Y
    B-Y is offline New Member
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    Hello, I'm new here too..today is day 26 off subs after 10+ years of opiate abuse..

    To answer your question I think you will have no problems dropping to 4mg ASAP , that's still a lot !! Then follow the taper at your pace (stable and feeling ok) , don't get impatient and rush now..GOOD JOB, and keep going!! Keep us updated👍
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  3. #3
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome!

    You're right. 12 mg/day of sub is high. I've been a member here and have watched many people induct on sub and taper successfully and I can't recall anyone needing more than 6 mg/day. As you know by now, the half life of subs is much longer than ordinary opiates. I hope that Randy or Bette will chime in here, but I think you could immediately make a reduction. If I were you, I'd reduce to 4 mg and see how you feel in a few days. Because of the half life, you probably won't even feel much if any difference for those first few days. If you are still feeling good after around 4 days, then that dose is doing it's job. I'd stay there at 4 mg for a day or two longer just to be sure and then begin to do the slow taper that is used here. If you're not feeling well in 2 or 3 days, then maybe increase your dose by .25 mg to see if that gets you stable. Bette and Randy will have the best advice in terms of what dose you should immediately reduce to so listen to them. Maybe they'll suggest you start even lower than that to see how you feel.

    There have been a lot of people who join this Forum wanting to do a quick taper from the subs. Some are successful, most just put themselves through unnecessary discomfort. The lower the dose you can become stable on, the quicker you will be done with this. However, I've watched and read while people tried to rush the process only to give up after a week or so and start all over again agreeing to trust the process and take it slowly.

    The weekends can be a bit slower here so please be patient. Sadly, Robert is no longer with us but both Bette and Randy are just as knowledgeable, have stepped in and will take very good care of you. Trust what they tell you and you'll be entirely off the sub in no time, completely clean and will do it without the acute withdrawal symptoms that send us into relapse.

    Good luck. I hope to see you continue to post. Your story and your journey is important and will inspire the next person who lands here scared and desperate.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  4. #4
    NJ81 is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up Another new member here

    Hey, another new member here too - it's really nice reading success stories, def helps me thru, i was an opiate/opioid user for 8 years, then started suboxone treatment as well since 2009. I'm finally tapering myself off, it's been long enough I feel. Saturday was my last full dose (since July) at 2 mg, 1 mg day/1 mg 8 hrs later...well I'm down to 1 mg total...day 3. Finally starting to feel OK, and gives me confidence to do this.
    12 mg is high, sorry to sound like a broken record...I started at 8mg per day....
    What i also find that helps, is waiting to feel WD's then giving yourself .5 increments every 2 hours. I find it's helped me taper tremendously the past couple days, I really hope this helps, and I hope I'm not contradicting anyone else here!
    Good Luck, you can definately do this
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  5. #5
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for your support. Right now I have not taken any subs for 33 hours and I will hopefully fall asleep soon. It will be interesting to see how I feel when I wake up. If I am sick I will slowly go up 1 mg at a time until stable so I then know where I should be. Then I will start the taper. I am really bad at doing things slow.....but if I understand correctly if I follow the slow taper plan I should not have too much wd symptoms and still be able to work? I am happy it has been 6 days no alcohol >>>>>> cocaine or pills : ) Just subs but subs are serious stuff I am learning. Thank you for all your support. When I detox I am such feeling mess - I seem to feel too much about everything when I detox ,,,,but I heard that is common : )

  6. #6
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Awesome and congratulations! Did you suffer much getting to day 26? Thank you for the support B-Y

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    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Cat I will keep posting as I go through this. I did a few quick 2-3 day methadone tapers with only about 20 mls in 2015 which seemed to work for about 10 days or until I got off the plane back to Vancouver from Asia - my favorite place I detoxed twice this year since I can't get dope there. I really appreciate the support! I think I detoxed off H - 10 times in 2015 - habit never as big as it was a few weeks ago - I definitely have found the quick tapers not working and drinking even a couple I end up using.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-23-2016 at 04:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwantoffsubs View Post
    Thank you for your support. Right now I have not taken any subs for 33 hours and I will hopefully fall asleep soon. It will be interesting to see how I feel when I wake up. If I am sick I will slowly go up 1 mg at a time until stable so I then know where I should be. Then I will start the taper. I am really bad at doing things slow.....but if I understand correctly if I follow the slow taper plan I should not have too much wd symptoms and still be able to work? I am happy it has been 6 days no alcohol >>>>>> cocaine or pills : ) Just subs but subs are serious stuff I am learning. Thank you for all your support. When I detox I am such feeling mess - I seem to feel too much about everything when I detox ,,,,but I heard that is common : )

    Welcome!

    If you haven't taken any subs for 33+ hours I would hold out a little longer then basically re-induct. You won't have to wait until your in severe wd's like a true induction, but if you can wait it out for around 36 - 48 hours you could then begin taking very small doses until stable. You would feel much better and be on a much lower dose too.

    Start with a 1mg dose and wait at least 1 hour to give it time to work. Then take a .5mg dose followed by .25mg doses every hour until stable. It shouldn;t take more than 3 - 6mg to get you comfortable.

    If you have taken some subs already let me know how much and we'll go from there. I have some errands to run today, but will check back later.

    If your at 12mg and have taken that dose already today I would suggest you reduce immediately to 8mg and spend 3 days there. Then reduce to 6mg and also spend just 3 days on that dose. Then reduce to 4mg (little more than a 25% reduction but ok) and spend around 4 days there. Then you'll be on your way with the taper set in place for 25% reductions every 4 or so days until down to at least .25mg. We'll discuss what to do when you get to that point.

    Hope this helps. Talk to you again later.

    Randy

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    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you so much for the support Randy and Cat.....IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME THAT YOU GUYS ARE HERE FOR ME

    Awake now.....42 hours no subs........still feel okay......I know the half life is long ...........before it took 72 hours but I was only on 1 week and jumped off at 1 mg ,,,,,,,,,this time 5 days at 12 mg down to 8 mg last dose Thursday then nothing.........I am going to keep it going until I feel I can't take it anymore and reinduct as you say Randy......Thank you again!

  10. #10
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    getting sick now ......shaking .....feel like throwing up......should not have tried gym so early .......I may have to reinduct soon......problem is pharmacist has to witness me take 8 mg........i wont do it I will walk out if I have to with it and just take 1 mg.......off to the pharmacy and not feeeling good....and do not feel up to a battle with the pharmacist right now .....but here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwantoffsubs View Post
    getting sick now ......shaking .....feel like throwing up......should not have tried gym so early .......I may have to reinduct soon......problem is pharmacist has to witness me take 8 mg........i wont do it I will walk out if I have to with it and just take 1 mg.......off to the pharmacy and not feeeling good....and do not feel up to a battle with the pharmacist right now .....but here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry to hear you have to dose in fornt of the pharmacist. That sucks for sure. Are you allowed to have "take home" doses or do you have to take every dose in front of them? If you could get your hands on several 8mg subs I could probably get you on and off in a reasonable time frame. Let me know if it's possible to get some

    Randy

  12. #12
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    48 hours still holding...pharmacist turned his back and let me take the 8 mg to go........but i did not take any yet .....might try to make it through tonight......I have about 24 mg stock piled now from not taking when I was suppose to in front of pharmacist .......he is turning his back to help me ......I told him the situation and about this website.....if I manage to do the same tomorrow I will have 32 mg.......thanks Randy!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-23-2016 at 07:26 PM.
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  13. #13
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    I am not taking anything right now,,,,but I would really like to take a clonazapam to ease the anxiety sometimes, but I have not yet......I heard it is only ok to take benzos maybe 5 days not sure if it is time right now.......I am in a holding pattern

  14. #14
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    I NEED TO BE HONEST - am I crazy to consider trying to just stop subs cold turkey no taper? I have w/d off opiates about 30 times but never was wired on subs or methadone before. Am I causing myself needless grief? With the suggested taper is it relatively painless? I am one for getting it done but I dont think I wd subs and work in the office Monday????argghh

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwantoffsubs View Post
    I NEED TO BE HONEST - am I crazy to consider trying to just stop subs cold turkey no taper? I have w/d off opiates about 30 times but never was wired on subs or methadone before. Am I causing myself needless grief? With the suggested taper is it relatively painless? I am one for getting it done but I dont think I wd subs and work in the office Monday????argghh

    If your intending to take the subs then stay away from the benzo's. When waiting to induct you don't want to take anything that will make you feel better. Benzo's and sub do not mix well either. Benzo's can be another issue entirely if taken for long periods of time. They can not be stopped abruptly. A benzo addiction is much, much worse than any opiate addiction. I had a benzo addiction and very nearly died from it. They scare me silly. Not saying you will have a problem with them, but if you do take any make sure it's a very low dose and only for a very few days unless under doctors orders.

    You can try your best to do this CT and not take the subs. But stopping from a 1mg dose isn't easy due to the strength and long half life the subs have. It has been done but you really have to want it and use every ounce of willpower you have. Because of the half life wd symptoms don't usually begin until the 3rd or 4th day then get worse. Hard to say just how long they will last, but it's probably around a week or more even at 1mg.

    Up to you what to decide and we'll support you no matter what. If you can hold out that's great and better if you don't use the subs. But if you just can't make it just take the very minimum doses until stable.

    Randy
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  16. #16
    Hearshot_Kid is offline Junior Member
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    Iwantoff, how are you doing today? Hang in there, let us know what you plan to do. We're in your corner!
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hey!!! Where are you? I really thought I'd see an update from you to let us know how your night went and what you've decided to do in terms of starting and tapering the subs or trying to ride out the storm. I'll check in with you later and really hope to see an update from you. You've got help and support here. Take advantage of it!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  18. #18
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Just woke up and had a good 8 hour sleep although the sheets are soaking wet,,,,,,,I am still hanging on at 64 hours.......feel the strength to keep it going ........I will not reinduct suboxone unless I get really sick or have some craving come out of nowhere.

    I have not had any opiate (besides subs), alcohol or benzo for over a week.

    I am hoping it does not get worse but time will tell...........I am praying since I was only on subs 5 days that I can make it out with out too much more suffering......I have suffered much worse in the past but I know this is probably because of the long half life.........but I am feeling a little better and stronger each day so I am not sure what is going on??????
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-24-2016 at 11:34 AM.

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    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    68 hours and holding - taking Gaba which seems to help with mood and anxiety rather than benzos right now.....I will save benzos for when I hit the no sleeep zone and have to work......which might be tonight....hope not

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    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwantoffsubs View Post
    68 hours and holding - taking Gaba which seems to help with mood and anxiety rather than benzos right now.....I will save benzos for when I hit the no sleeep zone and have to work......which might be tonight....hope not
    72 hours and still okay - taking 5HTP and Gaba and all the other usual's Gatorade, multi vits and Imodium etc. - really wondering after 5 days of subs and the past 9 months on and off H how bad this is going to get -I did Cold Turkey 3.5 grams of H and benzos 18 - 20 years ago about and that was hell took many detoxes over 2 years and many rehabs and recovery houses and treatment centers - then I hit a level of total surrender and a huge wave of the warm fuzzies hit me and i never had a desire to use again for 16 years - until the divorce about a year ago when I thought it was okay to drink again.....bad decision......now I pay.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-24-2016 at 06:55 PM.
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  21. #21
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwantoffsubs View Post
    72 hours and still okay - taking 5HTP and Gaba and all the other usual's Gatorade, multi vits and Imodium etc. - really wondering after 5 days of subs and the past 9 months on and off H how bad this is going to get -I did Cold Turkey 3.5 grams of H and benzos 18 - 20 years ago about and that was hell took many detoxes over 2 years and many rehabs and recovery houses and treatment centers - then I hit a level of total surrender and a huge wave of the warm fuzzies hit me and i never had a desire to use again for 16 years - until the divorce about a year ago when I thought it was okay to drink again.....bad decision......now I pay.

    Hello!

    You're doing great and fighting hard. You're heading into your 4th day without anything. If sub wd's are going to hit I would expect it to be today or perhaps this evening. Realize that this can be as much of a mental battle as it is a physical one. Your head will try to confuse you into thinking the wd's will be horrible and they actually may not be. Keep doing what you're doing. Post often as it really helps. Stay busy too. Sitting around watching the clock is not the thing to do. Get out and do anything to keep your mind off how bad you may be feeling.

    You CAN so this!!!

    Randy
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  22. #22
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    Iwantoffsubs,

    Just wanted to chime in to root you on. You are doing amazing!! Keep pushing through this and you'll make it out the other side. Try to keep that warm fuzzy feeling in the forefront of your thoughts. Mental battle is sometimes worse than physical. You seem to have the determination to get through this.
    But keep posting so we can cheer you on!!

    Michelle
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-25-2016 at 10:35 AM.
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  23. #23
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Awesome! Thanks Randy! I am almost 93 hours and still okay. Been staying at a close friends with his wife for a few days for the support. In 3,5 hours I go into day 5 no subs....no craving .....and feeling good enough I am going to suit up and go into the office now and make an appearance - of course they assume the flu - Thank you for the support - so far wds have been there but not too bad compared to previous times. Yes I keep busy and push my self to walk and then take baths - it is all slowling getting better - still night sweets and sneezing a little for 3 days whicj is good because then I know I am in wd when sneezing - Thanks again! Update again soon!

  24. #24
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Iwantoffsubs,

    Just wanted to chime in to root you on. You are doing amazing!! Keep pushing through this and you'll make it out the other side. Try to keep that warm fuzzy feeling in the forefront of your thoughts. Mental battle is sometimes worse than physical. You seem to have the determination to get through this.
    But keep posting so we can cheer you on!!

    Michelle
    Thanks Michelle - much appreciated - it really helps all the support - how are you?

  25. #25
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Okay over 112 hours going into day six later today no subs just GABA and 5Htp I slept 8 hours again last night although still wake up with the sheets wet I feel better each day. If I don't feel hard craving or sickness I will not take subs but I did visit the addiction doctor and he gave me naltrexone - it is a blocker so I ant get high even if I want to. Just an extra safety belt if get craving. So far none. I feel I am done. I feel like when I got 16 years clean. I just don't want it. But I know this is a very tricky mind disease so I will keep close to good friends and family. Keep busy working. I will keep active with yoga, boxing, biking , running like I did in my 16 years clean which was the biggest key for me I beside support of good friends. Maybe write a set of steps although I am not a huge NA AA member. I still will go especially around the early days right now. Thank you all for your support. I will keep posting and I hope to help others. I will not push the short taper as it is probably more risky. But I guess it depends on the individual and their situation.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-26-2016 at 11:53 AM.

  26. #26
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    Iwantoffsubs,
    I am stabilizing right now on induction of new drug for me. Zubsolv. I'm hoping with a bit of time I can start my taper. I wish I could of just jumped off like you did. I tried to ween myself of a 4 mo. binge from a broken heel injury. I did NOT want to go back to the subs, and was very determined, but I couldn't do it in the end. Your story is very inspiring to people who are thinking of going on subs. Sometimes it can be done with out the help. In my case, not so much, but we all have to follow our own path as long as it gets us to where we want to be. So very, very happy for you. Keep posting, because it's such a joy to hear people who are free. It makes us all want what you have. It encourages us to push ourselves.... we all believed at one point we would never be free. The mind is a powerful thing! Stay strong, and always vigilante!!
    Blessing to you for your continued success and well being!!!
    Michelle

  27. #27
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Iwantoffsubs,
    I am stabilizing right now on induction of new drug for me. Zubsolv. I'm hoping with a bit of time I can start my taper. I wish I could of just jumped off like you did. I tried to ween myself of a 4 mo. binge from a broken heel injury. I did NOT want to go back to the subs, and was very determined, but I couldn't do it in the end. Your story is very inspiring to people who are thinking of going on subs. Sometimes it can be done with out the help. In my case, not so much, but we all have to follow our own path as long as it gets us to where we want to be. So very, very happy for you. Keep posting, because it's such a joy to hear people who are free. It makes us all want what you have. It encourages us to push ourselves.... we all believed at one point we would never be free. The mind is a powerful thing! Stay strong, and always vigilante!!
    Blessing to you for your continued success and well being!!!
    Michelle
    Awseome - you go for it! I am just rushing out the door after a day in the office - I hit over 120 hours - noe in Day 6! and feeling better and better each day....i will post later tonight...thanks for the support

  28. #28
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    hmmmm I wrote a big post last night but it seems gone? I will do again tonight - but good news now 136 hours no subs feel almost 100% withdrawal was minimal except for first day when i tried to do too much at gym....I kept at walking after that - very happy to feel free once again and no depression and no cravings so far...I sleep 8 hours and sweating has stopped......I never had a detox where I slept 8 hours every night and no restless leg......that is very strange I almost always had really bad cases of that,,,,,,,maybe it was the Gaba and 5HTP? only thing new in this detox...I am grateful for all support.

  29. #29
    iwantoffsubs is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwantoffsubs View Post
    hmmmm I wrote a big post last night but it seems gone? I will do again tonight - but good news now 136 hours no subs feel almost 100% withdrawal was minimal except for first day when i tried to do too much at gym....I kept at walking after that - very happy to feel free once again and no depression and no cravings so far...I sleep 8 hours and sweating has stopped......I never had a detox where I slept 8 hours every night and no restless leg......that is very strange I almost always had really bad cases of that,,,,,,,maybe it was the Gaba and 5HTP? only thing new in this detox...I am grateful for all support.
    oh ya I also had neo citron at night - Imodium multi vits and vit C , calcium magnesium usually in the morning, kept busy and rested drove lstened to music kept close to good friends and hot baths - really a flu would have been worse - - just mentally way more scary not knowing what is coming - but i kept my mind off it as much as i could and as the days went by the better everything got for me thank you all! - Day 7 comes today! never felt so free with so much opportunity!!! so happy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-27-2016 at 11:21 AM.

  30. #30
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Just wanted to chime in
    And say
    Congratulations!

    It seems you are through the worst ..
    I hope you will come up with a plan and some type of support..
    There is so many more options today
    Then
    NA or AA..
    You are right alcohol is a drug..
    We might be able to drink for a period of time
    But it almost alwYs leads back to our DOC..
    There is
    SMart recovery
    Celebrate recovery
    That you might like better..
    All those times we have gotten clean in the past seemed so much easier..
    I think we forget we were younger then..
    So not only does our tolerance go up
    And our usage get bigger
    We get older..
    It never gets better..
    Each day we see new people come on here
    With stories that prove
    Just that!
    It alwYsgets worse..
    Now that we are clean
    We need to nurture that and be grateful..
    Only a handful of opiate addicts
    Get clean!
    We are blessed..
    Rockin
    It
    Clean
    In
    2016!
    Bette

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