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What's the End Game? Weigh In, Experts
  1. #1
    hanker is offline Junior Member
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    Default What's the End Game? Weigh In, Experts

    Hey all, I have been chatting with nightingaler the last couple days as we are both at about 9-10 days off sobox. She's a nurse and something we chatted about made me realize I should ask everyone for advice. So...bring it on. I pasted the pertinent part of our conversation below. What do you guys think?

    From Hanker:
    I have been on 4 mg -6 mg for eleven years. ELEVEN!! And I wasn't planning on going thru this hell but I moved to texas, got no doc here, ran out of sobox, and here we are.

    Here's what troubles me: what is my end game here? With the chronic pain and bs syndromes I've got, it's not safe to NOT be on it. Because the pain I am visited with is ER visit level, so there is no way I can not take something for pain. But if I'm not on sobox I'll feel it...I'll feel the warm fuzzies from the painkillers. And I fear there is no escape after that. I'll just start taking more and more. Ugh. But if I get back on it, I've just devoted a month of my life to this experiment in horror for nothing. Hurv.


    From nightingaler:
    have you ever been to pain management? I mean a real pain management clinic? Be honest about your addictions? Im a nurse. I've seen amazing things with people who get a practioner who cares.


    From Hanker
    Funny you mention it...I've been wondering about it myself. I'm honestly not looking to score anything or do anything underhanded. I just can't spill my guts to another doctor who then tells me stress is causing symptoms. It seems hopeless. But I've been wondering if I should have a consult at a pain clinic. I have no idea how they work but my cuz said they take care of ALL of your scripts in one place. Which sounds great.

  2. #2
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi Hanker,

    I've been trying to follow you and NG. So good that both of you found a partner in this. It helps. A LOT!

    Here are my thoughts but before I give them, please know that I am not criticizing you or questioning anything you are doing. These are just my thoughts based upon your questions on this new thread and without knowing anything about the severity of your medical issues.

    I think that you are processing your recent withdrawal from subs and trying to imagine what it's going to be like without having something to treat your pain. Along with that you may be acknowledging your probable inability to control short acting opiates if you continue with your detox from the subs and are then prescribed something more traditional for your pain. How and why do I say this? Because I (and every other person who's ever been addicted/dependent upon opiates) have these same thoughts when we become weary from detox and early recovery. It's exhausting! It's hard not to think that this is our new "normal" with our old "normal" being on some sort of opiate.

    I'm a little surprised that your doctor is prescribing opiates to control pain from IBS (is this your issue?). Opiates may just be one of the worst things you can take long term for it. There are other things that can be prescribed to help to control your episodes so that they are less frequent and less severe. Opiates actually make things worse with any issue like your's. Unless I'm wrong about your problem. If I am, then I'm sorry.

    My recommendation to you would be to stay the course to see how you feel once you're past these awful symptoms and have given yourself a chance to rebound from this detox. Wait until you get some energy back and begin to sleep well again. Then assess how you feel. This is really the only way to determine your level of pain. One of those things that has to get worse before it gets better. Look up and read something that explains "rebound pain". This is very real thing and it's no joke. My back is a mess and has been for years. Whoah!! When I was detoxing the ache and pain in my back was horrible and I had all those same thoughts as you. How can I expect to have any quality of life with this? Guess what. I was determined enough to give it time and Aleve took care of things and did a much better job than any opiate did. I managed that way clean for 6 years before I finally had to have surgery this past February. OK, I thought. Here I go leaving the hospital with a big fat bottle of percs. They were 5mg and I took one two separate times the first two days I was home and used Aleve or Motrin instead. I very quickly discovered that aside from the buzz that 5mg of perocet gave me, the over the counter meds worked every bit as well. I got rid of the bottle. If it remained in this house for too long, I knew I'd be diving into them and scarfing them up for a tension headache in no time.

    These are my thoughts. You have nothing to lose by staying the course to see where this will lead you. What's the worst that can happen? I'm wrong and you end up back on subs or a different opiate. I think that this experiment is worth it.

    Peace,

    Cat

  3. #3
    hanker is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for that very thoughtful message, Cat. And of course, no offense taken. I think we all understand each other.

    I make great use of advil myself and you're right: I have found on some occasions a vicoden helped zero but four advil helped a little.

    The IBS is just one thing, but it's the bringer of the pain I fear more than any other. I promised myself when I was 28 and once again curled up in a tiny ball of 12 hour excruciating pain that from now on I would NEVER allow myself to go thru that again. Anyway, once I got on sobox, even 2-3 mg, I never had an episode.

    I'm a hardcore insomniac. My earliest memories are of just laying awake in the nite.

    Then there are the chronic migraines (sometimes 15/month) that are so bad I puke and can end up in bed for three-four days. That's WITH graine meds.

    Then you've got your Fybro which means I feel like a truck ran over me -- just all over pain.

    Then you've go the CFS...so lame.

    Then you've got Hashimoto's: more chronic all over pain

    Then you've got osteoarthritis which means i can sometimes not even close my fingers around something; my feet hurt so bad they won't support my weight.

    Blah blah blah...

    I've been living with this for 20 years. I'm cool. I know the score. And I don't insist on having something narcotic; but my experience has been it takes that to knock out some of these things. And I've tried everything. And I'll keep trying. Having even a small amt of sobox in my system kept me safe from ever going back to that addiction behavior. Because dude, I absolutely question my ability to take anything narcotic like a normal person. (without sobox -- I haven't even thought about pain pills in a decade).

    I am dedicated to coming of sobox. We'll see what happens.

    Oh, I was wondering how you knew about the IBS. I think you saw where I typed something about all my BS syndromes and stuff. I meant horsepoo not IBS.

  4. #4
    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    Damn Hanker - sounds like you won the genetic lottery about as well as I did Not many people can remember insomnia or sleep problems as one of their earliest memories of life

    I can definitely relate to most of that stuff you mentioned - and being in so much pain you gotta get to the ER as quickly as possible definitely leaves some scars.

    As we both know, the sub obviously does provide some relief from those issues. The problem is it ends up just creating or exacerbating more new ones. You obviously know this too, and I'm sure even part of you deep down knew you really wanted and needed off the sub if you knew you were moving to another state with no real plan for getting more sub. (A hardcore addict never leaves his dealer right?).

    Anyway - I guess the endgame is finding a way to manage health issues without opiates so that we can re-connect with humanity and life. Sub dulls the pain, the joy, the love, and everything in between. At some point you realize you're not even really living anymore. You've prob developed a better feeling of connection to NG in a week than anyone else in years on sub, no?
    Ming23 likes this.

  5. #5
    hanker is offline Junior Member
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    Yeah, I'll just have to see what happens. I did have a plan when I moved. I had to fly back every six months to visit the office (for work) etc, so I asked my doc if I could just plan on seeing him then. I was definitely scared. I knew what I was walking into. But, I was not gonna remain in a city where my husband and myself were miserable. And now I'm here. For a year and a half actually.

    Hm...I haven't had any trouble with relationships. I'm a lone wolf by nature but once I make a serious bond with someone it stays. My bestie and I have 13 years together. Husband and I have...7? Another bestie from my 20s is coming to stay with me this weekend. And another bestie (from when we were 11!) came to stay a few weeks ago. I'm not the best at keeping in touch and being social, but I haven't lost anyone.

    I do wish I could bring NG here to stay with me tho. She would be so much happier. We'd be together out here in the country, just us, where it's very quiet and we could just watch movies and recover.
    UncleLeo likes this.

  6. #6
    UncleLeo is offline Advanced Member
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    So sub cured all your symptoms and pains and life was good? Why not find a new sub doctor then? They're in every state. Or fly home? Seems like a lot to put yourself through if you don't really want to be off it, no?

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