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Zubsolv Taper Going Okay
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Default Zubsolv Taper Going Okay

    Okay so not going to go into a ton of back story but I will start with, my name is Patrick and I'm 34. Had an injury 3.5 years ago that led to a small pain pill problem for under 6 months. Had withdrawals, became a whimp and was placed on 8mg of Suboxone film 1x per day. Stayed on 8mg for 2 years, then tapered to 6mg then to 4mg. Been on 4mg for 1 year. When I went to 4mg, I moved to a 2x per day dosing of 2mg. Recently moved and was switched to Zubsolv 1.4mg 2x a day.

    So here's the deal, I realized about 4 weeks ago, HOLY COW!!! I've been on maintenance meds for 6x longer than on pain pills. What the heck am I doing!

    4 weeks ago I had blood work done that shows hypothyroidism (I'm healthy, in shape and workout) and low testosterone (like really low). I hit a wall dropping my Zubsolv dose and was looking into why and that was the reason for the blood tests. Treating the low test and low thyroid and in the past 5 days I dropped from 4mg, then 3mg and today started 2mg. I'll be here on 2mg for 4 days and will drop again. I have this drive that the low test took away and I am committed to be done with Zubsolv forever. I can't believe I got into this mess and just for your info. I have zero history of low test or low thyroid and I have not found a single study showing the effects of any Zubsolv or suboxone has on the endocrine system when using for long term maint.

    I would like to say to anyone starting the medication get base blood work done so you have a solid reference down the road.

    So I'm here to document this joirney and talk with others going through the same process.

    Thanks all
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Day 2 at 1.4mg Zubsolv. Woke up feeling blah but that is normal for me. Ever since being on maintenance medication I have always been just a straight butt head in the morning. Takes me about 2hrs to get going. That could also have been the low thyroid but who knows. Anyway, took .7mg at 7am and will dose other 1/2 at 2-3pm. That seemed to work well yesterday. I do have a slight headache and some ever so slight lethargy but again could be in my head. Well the headache for sure is.

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    Chib is offline New Member
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    Good luck.
    Hope it goes well.

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Thanks Chib. It's time to get my life back. I swear for me this medication completely messes with me. I can remember the person I use to be. Outgoing, super social, loved doing things. For 3.5 years I've stayed locked away in my house for the most part and have cut out everyone I knew. I didn't have addicts for friends so it was not a good cut out. I want that person back. My family deserves that person back and that is enough fuel to feed this fire and get off the ride. I will take a couple months of minor uncomfort to be that person again.

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Could someone confirm my math please. Again i am currently taking 1.4 mg Zubsolv daily. .7 in the morning and .7 in the afternoon. This is day 2 at 1.4mg and I feel basically normal. Below is the taper schedule I have come up with, doing a 25% dose reduction.

    1.4 mg (2-3 more days)
    1.05 mg (4-5 days)
    .80 mg (4-5 days)
    .60 mg (4-5 days)
    .45 mg (4-5 days)
    .34 mg (4-5 days)
    .25 mg (4-5 days)
    .19 mg (4-5 days)
    .14 mg (" ")
    .10 mg (" ")

    .10 ( every other day) for 1 week) *
    Done Forever!

    Somewhere around 6-7 weeks for the taper

    Biggest struggle I'm going to have is getting somewhat accurate dosing with the stupid pill. Gonna be tough to get the .25 and below out of it I think but we will see.

    Any comments or advice please feel free.

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Sorry i keep posting to my thread but I'm sitting here in my vehicle at work and just feeling lazy. Problem with my job is there is a lot of driving and that is way to much time for one to think. I play podcasts, music and audiobooks non stop but doesn't help. I hate feeling lazy, it's my kryptonite for sure. I'm just sitting waiting for the clock to hit 2:30 so I can take my .7mg dose. It gives me a little pep and makes the day more bearable.

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Wow it is amazing the power of this medication. I don't think I ever realized until the lower dose how strong and fast it works. Took my 2nd .7mg dose at 3pm today and feel good. I was starting to have hot flashes, minor phantom aches and anxiety around 2:30pm. Will definetly be sitting at 1.4mg total for the next couple days. .7mg at 8am and .7mg at 3pm. Good thing weekend is here and I can stabilize at the 1.4 over the next couple days.
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    So day 3 on 1.4 mg Zubsolv. No sleep issues last night, woke up this morning feeling normal. Took my .7mg morning dose a tad later around 9am just because that is when I woke up. Will take 2nd dose 4pm or so. Anyway should be a smooth day.

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Day 3 at 1.4mg and just took 2nd dose of .7mg at 3pm. Was again feeling some anxiousness to take the dose and some minor fatigue and hot flashes. Tomorrow will mark day 4 of 1.4mg and hopefully I'll feel stable enough to drop to 1.05mg on Monday.

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    weanqueen is offline Member
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    Hi Patrick!
    I'm not an expert in tapers (I basically jumped from 1mg and don't recommend it)
    but someone should be in soon to help you out with your math and give you sound advice, Ricky where are ya! ;-)
    Just wanted to say I was the same on Subutex. I could actually feel that I was dumber. I couldn't think simple things through like I could before, I didn't care about anything really, didn't care about people/family, no emotions, never left the house. That's just what I turned into. I am the complete opposite now! I'm only 35 days clean from Suboxone, but I'm obsessed with being healthy now and bike rides are my favorite things to do (did 7.6 miles one day-which is A LOT after getting off opiates with lethargy and all) and I only put things into my body that will benefit it and even though I have stomach issues lingering, I still force myself to do things and plan around it and I just started jogging at night and added in some weight lifting. Music sounds amazing to me now and I am creative! I never knew I could be creative. I wake up early and rise with the sun and it's a beautiful thing, really.

    Anyway, you will get your person back, I know it. It's so worth it what you're going through right now. Ok I'll shut up now, I talk way too much :-P x
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-17-2017 at 03:00 PM.
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Thanks weanqueen, I was beginning to wonder if there was anyone on this site any longer willing to discuss this stuff.

    The social anxiety and loss of empathy I completely associate with suboxone therapy. But the lower I go in my dose the more I feel im coming back. That may sound weird but I swear it's true.

    One other thing. Is it weird that when I take my .7mg dose in the morning I don't really "feel" it but when I take the afternoon .7mg I actually get a small bit of energy and maybe even a slight euphoria. Never ever got this on my higher doses
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-17-2017 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Typos

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Weanqueen I wanted to add how great it is that you are 35 days clean. How inspirational you are even if you don't realize it. To know it can be done is probably 3/4 the problem the other 1/4 is just doing it.
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    weanqueen is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilver063 View Post
    Weanqueen I wanted to add how great it is that you are 35 days clean. How inspirational you are even if you don't realize it. To know it can be done is probably 3/4 the problem the other 1/4 is just doing it.

    There are definitely a lot of people who are willing to help and talk about it! The weekends are notoriously slow, I wanted to write because I remember how good it felt to have someone, ANYONE reply and know I wasn't writing for nothing, I don't think I may have continued to stay clean if it wasn't for this site, truthfully. I'm sure someone will be in tomorrow to help! Don't give up

    I think I could feel myself coming back slowly when I started to lower my dose as well, even though I didn't taper right, I could tell my mind was already recovering/reversing. It's amazing how strong Suboxone is.

    I'm not sure why the morning dose wouldn't effect you like the afternoon dose, but it could be something you're eating, or placebo (like you're waiting to take it and once you take it your mind is at ease) but sometimes you can just tell it's not placebo, so when someone comes in who knows more about the taper, some have actually done it themselves so they'll be able to tell you if they had the same thing happen. But with buperenorphine less is definitely more and you get a lot more effects from it on lower doses, not sure why.

    Thank you! I never thought I'd be able to say I have 35 days clean after 6 years of opiates! Sometimes I think about it before bed or something and I'm just like...wow. and it makes it all worth it. If my plane emergency lands or I get stuck somewhere, I'll be A-OK and not have to worry about getting to my pills, just like everyone else will be. I can go backpacking in another country or train for marathons and the best part is that I actually WANT to do those things. That's a crazy feeling.

    I think you're doing great and you have the right mindset and you'll definitely be taken care of here, just give it a day or two!
    It's amazing how good you'll feel having yourself back and doing the taper, you'll most likely have minimal withdrawals. JustfortodayTX and I quit at basically the same time, about 2 weeks apart, and she had a much, much easier time than I did because she tapered correctly. So you're on the right track

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Day 4 morning at 1.4mg Zubsolv. Feel like >>>> a bit this morning. Took my dose at 8am, but the ac is out in the house and woke up to no ac and hot. Waiting on repair man, outside unit fan is out so most likely the culprit. Anyway just general not feeling all that great, typical how I wake up really. Don't know if I'll Taper tomorrow or wait a couple days. I pretty much jumped from 2.8 mg to 1.4mg over 5 days with a few 2.1mg in between. So might stay here for extra day or so.

    Fyi if I ever say round numbers like 2 or 3 or 4 mg that is because I'm converting Zubsolv to suboxone strength. 1.4mg zub = 2mg sub ect. I find myself doing that on ocassion.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-18-2017 at 07:47 AM.

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    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilver063 View Post
    Could someone confirm my math please. Again i am currently taking 1.4 mg Zubsolv daily. .7 in the morning and .7 in the afternoon. This is day 2 at 1.4mg and I feel basically normal. Below is the taper schedule I have come up with, doing a 25% dose reduction.

    1.4 mg (2-3 more days)
    1.05 mg (4-5 days)
    .80 mg (4-5 days)
    .60 mg (4-5 days)
    .45 mg (4-5 days)
    .34 mg (4-5 days)
    .25 mg (4-5 days)
    .19 mg (4-5 days)
    .14 mg (" ")
    .10 mg (" ")

    .10 ( every other day) for 1 week) *
    Done Forever!

    Somewhere around 6-7 weeks for the taper

    Biggest struggle I'm going to have is getting somewhat accurate dosing with the stupid pill. Gonna be tough to get the .25 and below out of it I think but we will see.

    Any comments or advice please feel free.
    Hey Patrick - maybe the following thread can be a help to you, here's the link - https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...elp-67155.html

    Best of luck to you... God bless us all!
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Man today so far been tough. Lots of yawning and watering eyes. Hate that, one of my biggest issues with any sort of wd is the yawns and eyes watering. It is just so annoying.

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Day 4 of 1.4mg Zubsolv. Just took the afternoon .7mg dose. Again with the lethargy, and anxiousness to take the dose. Wondering if those symptoms should be gone before I drop down again. Should I wait a day or so to see if I can get through the day 100% symptom free? Or are these to be typcial feelings and I should push on. Once I take the dose I feel better. No sleep issues or bathroom issues or any other issue for that matter. Just dragging and anxious around dose time

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    weanqueen is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilver063 View Post
    Day 4 of 1.4mg Zubsolv. Just took the afternoon .7mg dose. Again with the lethargy, and anxiousness to take the dose. Wondering if those symptoms should be gone before I drop down again. Should I wait a day or so to see if I can get through the day 100% symptom free? Or are these to be typcial feelings and I should push on. Once I take the dose I feel better. No sleep issues or bathroom issues or any other issue for that matter. Just dragging and anxious around dose time
    I believe you are supposed to stabilize before dropping your dose again, which should only take 3 days if I'm not mistaken? I believe Catrina said that if you need a few more days at your current dose, a day or two won't hurt. I'm pretty sure it's suggested not to stay at one dose for longer than 7 days, so if you need to go for 7 days, I would. Make sure to check all of this info in the taper plan, though, I'm not an expert.

    Refer to this taper plan:
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html
    It has all the info you will need! you're doing great. Tapers aren't supposed to be easy. As long as you can eat and sleep, it'll be ok, xo

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Oh yeah, I've read the plan multiple times. I want to push myself to get this done but not sure how hard is too hard. The taper method is great but in reality you are just minimizing withdrawal to the slightest of symptoms over the course of many many weeks. I expect some discomfort throughout this Taper but the anxiety and craving of the next dose is rough and it gets in my head. Like if I'm craving the 2nd dose how the heck am I going to feel when im dosing 1x per day. I think tomorrow what I will do is hold off on any dosing until 11am. And dose all at once. And try that for 4 days. If I can get to the 1x per day dosing I have a feeling it will be a bit easier to do this taper.

    Thought?

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    weanqueen is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilver063 View Post
    Oh yeah, I've read the plan multiple times. I want to push myself to get this done but not sure how hard is too hard. The taper method is great but in reality you are just minimizing withdrawal to the slightest of symptoms over the course of many many weeks. I expect some discomfort throughout this Taper but the anxiety and craving of the next dose is rough and it gets in my head. Like if I'm craving the 2nd dose how the heck am I going to feel when im dosing 1x per day. I think tomorrow what I will do is hold off on any dosing until 11am. And dose all at once. And try that for 4 days. If I can get to the 1x per day dosing I have a feeling it will be a bit easier to do this taper.

    Thought?
    I personally would follow the taper plan, but also everyone is different so you could tweak the taper a bit to what works best for you. I really don't feel qualified to give you advice on it though, I'll see if I can get Uncle Leo or someone else in here with more experience!

    About the taper prolonging things, if you want to go cold turkey you can, but I had a pretty difficult time doing that and after the way I saw people have an easier time after quitting after a taper, I'd definitely go for the taper. The taper makes it easier for you to go about your normal life without having to stop everything. I jumped from 1mg and I was in bed shaking for 2 weeks. I think you're doing pretty well, I think with suboxone a lot of the withdrawal is mental. Mind over matter. The anxiety and craving for next dose is normal, it'll get easier I promise. Try to stick it out as long as you can and not focus so much on it! I'll send some positive vibes to you

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Thanks weanqueen, thanks for just talking and don't sweat talking too much. Positivity is the way to be. I'm definetly not going Cold Turkey. No way no how. I have a high profile job and kids and a wife that I want to be available for. My medical problems don't need to be getting in the way of that. They didnt do this to me and they do nothing but make getting off that much more worth it. But the taper I read says you "can" take it 2x a day but I would be willing to bet those who were able to dose 1x per day had it just a tad bit better. No expecting another dose. Dose once and you don't even have to worry about it.

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    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilver063 View Post
    Thanks weanqueen, thanks for just talking and don't sweat talking too much. Positivity is the way to be. I'm definetly not going Cold Turkey. No way no how. I have a high profile job and kids and a wife that I want to be available for. My medical problems don't need to be getting in the way of that. They didnt do this to me and they do nothing but make getting off that much more worth it. But the taper I read says you "can" take it 2x a day but I would be willing to bet those who were able to dose 1x per day had it just a tad bit better. No expecting another dose. Dose once and you don't even have to worry about it.
    Patrick - it is recommended to dose twice a day until you are down to 1mg (.7mg zub) then you would dose only once a day throughout the rest of the taper. If you want to try dosing once a day at this point then by all means but remember you'll be going longer in between doses than you would be by dosing twice a day!

    It is also VERY IMPORTANT to dose at the SAME TIME/TIMES everyday! When dosing twice a day, split your doses evenly and dose 8-10 hours apart, for example: first dose and 9am then second dose at 6pm.

    DO NOT exceed 25% in any reduction, DO NOT make a reduction until you are STABLE, stable meaning very little to no withdrawal! Wait a MINIMUM of 4 days before doing a reduction!

    Follow your original taper plan that you made earlier in your thread. DO NOT try to rush the taper or you will experience problems throughout the entire process!

    You've been on sub a very long time, it is extremely important especially in your case (because of the length of time you were on sub) to take this slowly!

    SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE!!!

    Keep us updated on your progress? Best wishes... God bless us all!

    PS
    I sent you a link in an earlier post to an older thread that has some good advice/info for you. Randy talks about using the crush/pile method for obtaining the smaller reductions. Read through that thread if you haven't already?

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Thanks Ricky, I have read it. It's the "stable" part that is tough to comprehend. I mean I haven't taken any more than 1.4mg in 24 hrs for 4 days. My only symptom is craving the afternoon dose of .7mg, being a tad anxious for the time to pass to get to that dose and maybe a slight bit of lethargy but more of a laziness feeling. Once I take the afternoon dose all of that goes away, I go do my workout and I sleep through the night just fine. So I guess i would consider it stable. Im going to try tomorrow 1.05 mg. Only way to know for sure is try the drop. Thanks again.

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    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilver063 View Post
    Thanks Ricky, I have read it. It's the "stable" part that is tough to comprehend. I mean I haven't taken any more than 1.4mg in 24 hrs for 4 days. My only symptom is craving the afternoon dose of .7mg, being a tad anxious for the time to pass to get to that dose and maybe a slight bit of lethargy but more of a laziness feeling. Once I take the afternoon dose all of that goes away, I go do my workout and I sleep through the night just fine. So I guess i would consider it stable. Im going to try tomorrow 1.05 mg. Only way to know for sure is try the drop. Thanks again.
    Remember, waiting four days in between drops is the bare minimum! It is not uncommon to wait five, six or even 7 days in between drops. It's always better to take an extra day or two then to make a reduction too early!

    If I were you I would wait a few extra days before making this next drop?

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    I've decided to sit at 1.4mg for a day or so longer. I'm so tired of waking up feeling blah. Takes me forever to get moving.
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    An hour later and the sluggishness from waking up has worn off. It's incredible. Took me from 6am- 8:50am to actually feel like a human and take on the day. Totally not normal. Before these meds i could pop out of bed and be good to go. Super happy and super energized. My poor wife stears clear of me in the morning just so she doesn't accidentally say or do something that upsets me. It really is heart breaking that someone I've put through this whole addiction thing is being hurt due to my bad choices. Gotta get off and gotta lot of making up to do.
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    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Silver
    You got it! The dissatisfaction is inside of us and only we can put that forest fire out before it spreads to our poor loved ones! If it takes an extra hour to get up right now, go ahead and give yourself a present--an extra hour when needed! Forget how it used to be. It will not and cannot ever be the same. It can be better though!
    Do not ever lose sight of the goal though--to be free! If u need an extra day on 1.4 mg, ok; but keep going because after the physical taper is done, there's some time dealing with the mental aspects. So, get the physical taper done and prepare to relearn living! Your wife will thank you lol!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-19-2017 at 08:16 AM.
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Ming, I've read just about all of your story on here and you really are an inspiration. Simply amazing the drive you had to push through the taper. Thanks for the comments and keep spreading the positivity.
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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Well folks I made the drop. Felt wrong not to. Had my typcial afternoon craving around 2pm but I just pushed through it. It was definetly in my head. So I took .7mg at 7:30am and will take .35mg around 5 or so. That's a full 10hr beteeen dosing. I don't feel bad at all, almost like I could skip the .35mg. I won't do that but i do need to test my boundaries I feel like. So Day 1 of 1.05mg Zubsolv

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    Psilver063 is offline Member
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    Day 2 1.05mg Zubsolv, typical morning. But all in all shouldn't have issues at this dose. I'm already looking to this weekend to be below 1mg on this med and really get to the juicy stuff.


    I was doing some thinking last night and was looking at my meds and was just amazed at how such a small piece of this med can cause all the issues it causes. Something so small creating something so big. Was also reading about bupenorphine and realized something. The drug gets wrapped up right inside of the fat within your body, similar to pot. That's one reason why the life of it is so long and also why when you go a week without it you will still test positive for it. So with that said, I've drawn the conclusion that people carrying more body fat may have a slightly easier time with the taper due to the drug hanging around a bit longer. So the levels will lower more slowly and if the taper is drug out long enough then they should be close to symptom free the whole time. Anyway that's my reasoning and opinion.

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